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News Analysis DF Direct: Xbox Series X 12TF RDNA 2.0 GPU Power Confirmed + Much More!

ZywyPL

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Nov 27, 2018
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That has never mattered and will never. Price and games are more important that power. Power only matters on Internet/game forums, don’t confuse it with reality.

Tell that to Sony and MS who advertise their systems as "the most powerful console" whenever possible. They wouldn't brag about it so much if it really didn't matter.
 

Dural

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Sep 18, 2006
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I agree, which is why I said insiders are the most solid info we have.

The most solid info we have is the GitHub leak, it was right about XsX. If anything, there was more evidence in the leak of the PS5 chip than the xbox.

I believe DF knew the leak was legit, they said in their original video they independently verified the info from the GitHub leak.

 

diffusionx

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It's kind of double-edged sword TBH - many average Joes who but consoles at local stores will ask why one is is more expensive than the other, and they will hear it's because it has more powerful GPU, with more TFlops, but average Joe doesn't know what a TF is, many of them don't even know what a GPU is, they just think there is this one, magical "processor" that does all the job (which is actually true given more and more consumer electronics use SoC solutions nowadays), but at the end of the day, they will look at both screen, and say "hey, this CoD looks EXACTLY like the other CoD, I don't see this console being any more powerful" - and will easily pick up the cheaper console.

But on the other hand, once more and more titles show up, and with them more and more reviews, the more powerful console will have a free marketing, being able to nitpick lines like "plays best on XYZ", "XYZ has a great advantage", "XYZ clearly wins this gen" and so on, and put them on every possible trailer, TV spot, banner, poster etc., and the consumers will take notice, and many of them will blindly follow and pick that XYZ console not even digging into the details.

Realistically speaking, the only thing that happens is the first paragraph. Years in, what matters is accumulated exclusives and where your friends are playing. People really don't care about more p's or higher resolution shadows or trees with more detail in the horizon.

I think Sony is in a very good position with a $400 PS5 vs. a $500 Xbox, before I see any specs on any system. If you just told me only that, I would tell you Sony will outsell MS by a lot. Of course, MS' goal isn't necessarily to sell consoles but get people on GamePass.
 
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Smoke6

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Nov 26, 2017
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Sony wont end up the more powerful. You can pretty much bank on it at this point. If they were, you would've heard about it. There's a reason they keep dodging any information about the PS5. I personally think they're in a bit of a spot. Put it like this, if Sony cancels the PS5 this year (which is possible) and instead try for 2021, you know whats up.
Screenshotting this for future reference soon!

you guys don’t know shit about marketing and running a business as successful as Sony has been with this particular product! It’s gonna be a war of the GAMES and Sony outnumbers and outclasses them in that regard!
 
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TempleOfIron

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Screenshotting this for future reference soon!

you guys don’t know shit about marketing and running a business as successful as Sony has been with this particular product! It’s gonna be a war of the GAMES and Sony outnumbers and outclasses them in that regard!
What marketing? 😂
 
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DeepEnigma

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Sony is completion of course they were thought about. It’s complete radio silence from them and Microsoft is benefiting from that at the moment.


:pie_thinking: :messenger_winking_tongue:
 

chemspida

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Really interesting video. I don't see why they are focusing so much on RT though, it's still new tech and probably going to be computationally expensive on these console sized GPUs.
 

ZywyPL

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Realistically speaking, the only thing that happens is the first paragraph. Years in, what matters is accumulated exclusives and where your friends are playing. People really don't care about more p's or higher resolution shadows or trees with more detail in the horizon.

I think Sony is in a very good position with a $400 PS5 vs. a $500 Xbox, before I see any specs on any system. If you just told me only that, I would tell you Sony will outsell MS by a lot. Of course, MS' goal isn't necessarily to sell consoles but get people on GamePass.

Honestly, only the Pro vs 1X sales would really give somewhat accurate insight on the case, because the price alone doesn't do the justice looking at previous generations - the PS3 was 100$ more expensive than X360, but most of that price went into expensive BD, XDR RAM and CELL BE. that didn't provide much/anything extra for the end user, and if anything, it performed worse,

Then the XB1 was 100$ more expensive than PS4, and it's not a secret all of that additional cost went into forced Kinect, so again, it also didn't provide anything more for the end consumer, and at the same time was also the worse performing system.

PS4 Pro and X1X on the other hand, now those machines did put all of their productions cost strictly into performance parts, so as oppose to previous cases, that extra 100$ for X1X does translate into better performance across the board, and it was marketed as such, as the most powerful console in the world, MS kept emphasize that, the reviewers also widely kept saying over and over than the X1X version of XYZ game is the best, and again, MS kept using those reviews in many of the accolade trailers and other marketing materials.

But how much of an impact did it have on the actual sales? Only MS has the data, which still, doesn't really give that accurate results, as both Pro and 1X were mid-gen refreshes, and many people already had an XB1 or PS4 console and didn't want/need to upgrade, let alone completely switch platforms once they already had all their current-gen library tied to the other.

So with all that being said, I would really like to see the scenario with let's say 399$ XBS, 449$ PS5 and 499$ XBX, just for the social experiment point of view ;P
 

NXGamer

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Can't wait to hear NXGamer's take now that it's 12TF with the efficient NAVI architecture AAAAND RDNA 2. Do Teraflops matter now? Do black lives matter? Do Blue lives matter? Do buildings matter :pie_thinking:
Only Green and Blue lives matter it seems, ama rite? :pie_savoring:

My take is the same as it was, when I did my first video on the Series X box, that it is a mightly machine and is really pushing ABOVE the current PC market as a total package and value. Maybe you should watch that one and then watch again my Tflops video and see the point being made.

Or you could wait until I put my new video up later this week when I get 20 mins to sit down and chat about it on mic.
 

diffusionx

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Feb 25, 2006
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Honestly, only the Pro vs 1X sales would really give somewhat accurate insight on the case, because the price alone doesn't do the justice looking at previous generations - the PS3 was 100$ more expensive than X360, but most of that price went into expensive BD, XDR RAM and CELL BE. that didn't provide much/anything extra for the end user, and if anything, it performed worse,

Then the XB1 was 100$ more expensive than PS4, and it's not a secret all of that additional cost went into forced Kinect, so again, it also didn't provide anything more for the end consumer, and at the same time was also the worse performing system.

PS4 Pro and X1X on the other hand, now those machines did put all of their productions cost strictly into performance parts, so as oppose to previous cases, that extra 100$ for X1X does translate into better performance across the board, and it was marketed as such, as the most powerful console in the world, MS kept emphasize that, the reviewers also widely kept saying over and over than the X1X version of XYZ game is the best, and again, MS kept using those reviews in many of the accolade trailers and other marketing materials.

But how much of an impact did it have on the actual sales? Only MS has the data, which still, doesn't really give that accurate results, as both Pro and 1X were mid-gen refreshes, and many people already had an XB1 or PS4 console and didn't want/need to upgrade, let alone completely switch platforms once they already had all their current-gen library tied to the other.

So with all that being said, I would really like to see the scenario with let's say 399$ XBS, 449$ PS5 and 499$ XBX, just for the social experiment point of view ;P

Just look at PS4 vs. PS4 Pro. The games and feature sets are the same. The only difference is the Pro is more powerful and also more expensive. But it's a good way to think about just what people value in these purchases. And while Sony hasn't released info in a while, last time they did, the base system made up 80% of sales. Price is the most important thing. Very few buy a console based on power, what matters is games, features/services, and community.

I think Sony would be making a mistake by letting MS undercut them, even if it is with a shitty Lockhart, because again, it's all about price.
 

Journey

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Aug 18, 2014
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Only Green and Blue lives matter it seems, ama rite? :pie_savoring:

My take is the same as it was, when I did my first video on the Series X box, that it is a mightly machine and is really pushing ABOVE the current PC market as a total package and value. Maybe you should watch that one and then watch again my Tflops video and see the point being made.

Or you could wait until I put my new video up later this week when I get 20 mins to sit down and chat about it on mic.


Sounds good, looking forward to it.
 

HolyTruth

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Dec 20, 2016
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I don’t think having 2 versions at launch will work and will confuse the public.

who Says they are going to launch with two versions?
If this is true btw ., then Sony is fucked too because they have PS4, PS4 pro and PS5.

is the PRO better because it’s a pro model and PS5 is NOT pro so worse? Amateur basically?
 
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Smoke6

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Nov 26, 2017
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Seriously! What marketing? lol
Nah, we not cherry picking my comments, they come as a package! So either address them as I wrote it or don’t bother!

we’re not kids in here as far as I know and it’s not that hard to understand what I posted! Sony doesn’t show its hand prematurely in a rush to gain likes and traction. Everything is done for a reason!
 
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HolyTruth

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Tell that to Sony and MS who advertise their systems as "the most powerful console" whenever possible. They wouldn't brag about it so much if it really didn't matter.

microsoft NEVER said that the most powerful.
They only said it’s the most powerful console THEY created. Which is 100% true.
 

GymWolf

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Jun 11, 2019
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Sony wont end up the more powerful. You can pretty much bank on it at this point. If they were, you would've heard about it. There's a reason they keep dodging any information about the PS5. I personally think they're in a bit of a spot. Put it like this, if Sony cancels the PS5 this year (which is possible) and instead try for 2021, you know whats up.
they have 0 game for 2021, i don't think they are gonna move ps5 to 2021.
 

Gavon West

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Jan 12, 2018
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Nah, we not cherry picking my comments, they come as a package! So either address them as I wrote it or don’t bother!

we’re not kids in here as far as I know and it’s not that hard to understand what I posted! Sony doesn’t show its hand prematurely in a rush to gain likes and traction. Everything is done for a reason!
GTFOH with that. What was the reason for showing a mediocre logo to their fanbase? What an insult. And standing as the market leader, they're showing no confidence at all. Unless you believe rip toeing and waiting on their #1 competitor is a great showing for a company who's actually in a dominant position.

It isn't. I don't care what anyone says.
 

LazyParrot

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But on the other hand, once more and more titles show up, and with them more and more reviews, the more powerful console will have a free marketing, being able to nitpick lines like "plays best on XYZ", "XYZ has a great advantage", "XYZ clearly wins this gen" and so on, and put them on every possible trailer, TV spot, banner, poster etc., and the consumers will take notice, and many of them will blindly follow and pick that XYZ console not even digging into the details.
Microsoft has had the power advantage since 2017, and they made sure everyone knew it. The effect on console sales was negligible.
 

gamerforever

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Mar 21, 2011
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who Says they are going to launch with two versions?
If this is true btw ., then Sony is fucked too because they have PS4, PS4 pro and PS5.

is the PRO better because it’s a pro model and PS5 is NOT pro so worse? Amateur basically?

I think anyone with some sense will know the ps5 is above the ps4/ ps4 pro! How will anyone know if a series x is above an xbox one x or series s etc?
 

Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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Realistically speaking, the only thing that happens is the first paragraph. Years in, what matters is accumulated exclusives and where your friends are playing. People really don't care about more p's or higher resolution shadows or trees with more detail in the horizon.

I think Sony is in a very good position with a $400 PS5 vs. a $500 Xbox, before I see any specs on any system. If you just told me only that, I would tell you Sony will outsell MS by a lot. Of course, MS' goal isn't necessarily to sell consoles but get people on GamePass.

Except that is exactly why people went from PS2 to 360 and back to PS4.

Stuff like this shows that nothing has been learned from previous generations and everyone assumes the market leader will remain the same (which rarely happens)
 
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Dec 27, 2019
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Digital Foundry is the most reliable next gen sources we have so far.

I'm glad they're very honest on their analysis.
 
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And what games have been confirmed for PS5?

What if ALL Multiplatform GAMES that you are PLAYING look and run WAY better on one console over the other?

Well the x is more powerful than my pro that I PLAY ALL them multiplatform GAMES and I still enjoy them and all the EXCLUSIVES sony offers ms dont

I'll counter you what games have been announced for your "beast of a console" besides halo? We can pretty much guarantee ghost of tsushima and tlou2 are gonna be on ps5 so that alone FOR ME warrents buying a ps5 EVEN IF ITS 3 TERAFLOPS WEAKER. See writing in all caps does nothing no one cares.....
 

ruvikx

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More "power" is the whole reason "why" people invest in a new generation to begin with. Could an argument be made that compute power isn't necessary to make a great game? Sure, i.e. IMO Metal Gear Solid circa 1998 still holds up today as an all time classic & if someone made a sequel with the exact same gameplay, pixelated Snake, music, infiltration, codex conversations, graphics, pop in & all the rest, I'd play the proverbial sh*t out of it & enjoy it. But that's one small tiny classic in an ocean of games & industry which does need more power to be better. Give me Elder Scrolls VI on a 12 teraflop console > a 9 tf console, all day & everyday.

It's good to see Microsoft is aiming to please the hardcore with their specs because I'm sick & tired of underpowered consoles with shitty framerates & bad image quality.
 
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bRacing

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That has never mattered and will never. Price and games are more important that power. Power only matters on Internet/game forums, don’t confuse it with reality.
That is absolute nonsense. Power matters to a great many people. Myself included. I chose PS4 over XB1 near their launch when MS dropped the Kinect and neither had many exclusives worth a damn. And I chose it because it was the more powerful of the two and that was despite the 360 being my main the prior gen. If the new Xbox is more powerful and slightly more expensive, it's what I'm buying. The vast majority of games I play are from third parties and I want the best console to play them on. I hardly think my reasoning for this is based on the fact that I'm posting on a forum.

I dont play teraflops I play games 🤷‍♂️


Gamefaqs level discourse. Jesus christ.
 
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You want to know how dumb this sounds? like going to a Cars forum and after someone posts:

How Exciting!! The new Corvette C8 has a 6.2-liter LT2 V8 mid engine that's capable of outputting 495 hp and 470 lb.-ft.

And you respond with:

I don't drive Horsepower/Torque, I drive cars 🤡


Not really both cars still gets me from point A to point B correct? One just does it faster correct? It's all about preference the corvettes nice has all the bells in whistles but the other car has EXCLUSIVE features the vette dont that I want more

So who really is the clown here you or me
 
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Dural

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Not really both cars still gets me from point A to point B correct? One just does it faster correct? It's all about preference the corvettes nice has all the bells in whistles but the other car has EXCLUSIVE features the vette dont that I want more

So who really is the clown here you or me

You for being in a thread for something you were never going to get.
 
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NickFire

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Microsoft has had the power advantage since 2017, and they made sure everyone knew it. The effect on console sales was negligible.
I'm not saying power will be the only factor, but it will be a significant factor for many people at launch. The X's failure to really change the market share is irrelevant because by its launch tens of millions (and many social circles) were already invested in one eco system or another, plus there were many exclusives to consider by that point for each. I actually think power (and price - interrelated) is more important at launch, with exclusives taking the reigns as time goes on and there are tangible exclusives on the shelves near the hardware to look at.
 

ruvikx

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Right because I shot back with logic? I mean you guys are sitting here acting like sony has announced anything they haven't you me the next dont know shit. I have taken so many screenshots just in this thread one of us is gonna eat crow itll be interesting to see which does.

If you're a Sony fan you need to ask yourself what you want, i.e. do you want a console which matches or surpasses the Series X specs? Than it'll cost a lot. Do you want an affordable cheaper console? It'll be less powerful. Next gen is coming & there are no miracles or Sony special sauces which can combine both more power than the Series X whilst being more affordable or equally priced (unless Sony wants to take a huge loss). Power & mass market affordability, i.e. those were the 2 defining factors which always made a new generation sell. Last gen Microsoft made a huge mistake with Kinect & forcing it into a $500 package. That's not the case this time.

I'll be blunt here, i.e. one of the most overused mistaken arguments I see people repeat is "power doesn't matter". But it does, i.e. it always has. Especially now that we have two rival companies releasing their machines at the same time. Maybe I just have a hardcore viewpoint, but a console which combines ease of use (no set up hassle or drivers or other pc related vsync/frame pacing/ini file headaches) & power to make games run smoothly & look better will always be my choice. I jumped from the ps2 to the Xbox 360 in 2007 (better looking multiplats like Assassin's Creed etc.), back to the ps4 in 2013 for the same power reason, back to Xbox with the One X (6tf = win) & now based on everything we know (& unless Sony really, really surprises us), I'll be staying with the X brand.

Screaming "muh exclusives" doesn't cut in my case because the last Sony exclusive I really enjoyed was Bloodborne. They never made a sequal.
 

Journey

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Not really both cars still gets me from point A to point B correct? One just does it faster correct? It's all about preference the corvettes nice has all the bells in whistles but the other car has EXCLUSIVE features the vette dont that I want more

So who really is the clown here you or me



So let me get this straight, you go in to the topic about the new 2020 Corvette C8 to tell people you don't care about the engine or it's horsepower, that all you want is to get from point A to point B... then WTF are you posting in a thread about the Corvette C8 with its 495HP? You're in the wrong thread dummy, go visit the cars that get you from point A to point B thread.

So to answer your question, the clown in this thread is YOU.
 
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I dunno. MS coming out this soon with hardware pretty much shouts they know they hold the power crown.

Maybe. But it feels more likely that what it actually means is that MS wants to shift the narrative from the current generation to the next where Xbox isn't yet a miserable failure. Sony keeping silent would be for very much the same reason.
 

Blood Borne

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That is absolute nonsense. Power matters to a great many people. Myself included. I chose PS4 over XB1 near their launch when MS dropped the Kinect and neither had many exclusives worth a damn. And I chose it because it was the more powerful of the two and that was despite the 360 being my main the prior gen. If the new Xbox is more powerful and slightly more expensive, it's what I'm buying. The vast majority of games I play are from third parties and I want the best console to play them on. I hardly think my reasoning for this is based on the fact that I'm posting on a forum.




Gamefaqs level discourse. Jesus christ.
You just agreed with what I said.

You’re a gamer who posts on game forums, of course you care about power. But in the grand scheme of things, you’re the minority.
 

Blood Borne

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Yeah yeah, I get it. Sony wins the power battle, power matters. Sony loses power battle, power only matters to forum posters. You're not predictable at all. <winkyface>
WTF. Is that actually what you got from my post? Wow.
You keep proving my point. You hang out on Internet game forums too much to the point that you inferred some fanboy bullshit from my post.
 
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So let me get this straight, you go in to the topic about the new 2020 Corvette C8 to tell people you don't care about the engine or it's horsepower, that all you want is to get from point A to point B... then WTF are you posting in a thread about the Corvette C8 with its 495HP? You're in the wrong thread dummy, go visit the cars that get you from point A to point B thread.

So to answer your question, the clown in this thread is YOU.

Again it could be a corvette just a different model again with exclusive features that the other suped up corvette does not have. I honestly dont understand how you dont understand this.
 
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LMJ

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Seriously! What marketing? lol

This kind amigo lol


(God that opening is great)

Again, I sincerely doubt Sony is just sitting on its laurels and I REALLY doubt they're pissing themselves about the recent MS Specs (awesome as they are) My opinion, but I expect an event of an announcement and many games to show off to boot...

Not to mention the PS4 is about to hit a killer year for games exclusives especially

So many people here are spelling Sonys upcoming demise, and mirroring the doom and gloom predictions before the PS4 reveal nearly 8 years ago (the big difference being we know the specs of MS this time around)

Chill people lol it's coming :D