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DF Direct Weekly #159: PS5 Pro Ultra Boost Mode, Ghost of Tsushima PC Specs, Kingdom Come 2

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
So are your posts, but it won’t stop you from posting them anyway.
What is your fucking problem man ?! You woke up with a headache or what?
The guy was asked whats the reason for 50xx and he froze. I just commented how it's funny coming from biggest pc guy.
it was a light hearted ironic comment and you attached to me like a fucking leech.
Get off you creep.
I will continue posting whatever I want like it or not the forum is not yours.
 

Zathalus

Member
Aren't there 3000 games on PS5 currently? What games haven't got any drops? You think games on PC don't have CPU drops? Try buying a CPU in order to run a stable 60fps in Spider-man 2 on PC...
I was answering somebody who asked how many CPU limited games there were on PS5. I listed what I know and that they may be more. I made no claim that PC games don't have CPU drops nor claimed Spider-Man 2 on PC wouldn't have drops. No need to get upset.
 
phil-spencer-digitalfoundry.gif
Wonder why Alex always has to take a anti PlayStation stand in any DF related content. He always seem to be bitter about PlayStation!
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Battlefield 2042
Plague Tale
BG3
Dragon's Dogma 2
Gotham Knights
The Quarry
The Medium
Anno 1800

Might be on PS5 one day:
Starfield
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Cities Skyline 2

Those are just off the top of my head that have CPU related drops or 30fps cap due to the CPU. I'm sure there are others, even Spider-Man 2 has the occasional drop due to the CPU.

Sooo a handful, yes? And SM2 is overwhelningly GPU limited.
 

YCoCg

Member
Another DF video on the PS5 Pro?
Not really, they're commenting on the leaks and info from Tom Henderson, then they talk about other stuff like the PC port of Ghost of Tsushima, Nvidia GSync over Streaming, etc, that's the point of a weekly news round up to chat about stuff they've not covered properly/upcoming things.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Yes? CPU limited games are the far minority of games. We will probably see a bit more as the gen moves into the latter half but they will still be a small minority.

Is it CPU limits or single threaded performance we're dealing with? Genuine question I'm not clear on. The former suggests better hw needed while the latter should be addressed as developers are able to optimize their respective engines.
 

Zathalus

Member
Is it CPU limits or single threaded performance we're dealing with? Genuine question I'm not clear on. The former suggests better hw needed while the latter should be addressed as developers are able to optimize their respective engines.
Probably a bit of both. I'm sure some can do better while others really do stress the CPU.
 

SoloCamo

Member
Is it CPU limits or single threaded performance we're dealing with? Genuine question I'm not clear on. The former suggests better hw needed while the latter should be addressed as developers are able to optimize their respective engines.

Depends on the title. Even at 4k BF2042 128 player maps will use 80-90% of my 11900k, which is a much faster cpu than what the PS5 Pro will have. That said, in fairly single threaded games like Starfield, my 11900k can be single threaded limited.
 

YCoCg

Member
Do they purposely pick the worst still shots of themselves?
Yes, Rich has mentioned it before that Ollie goes for more silly in between faces as they do better on YouTube, yay algorithm. At this point it's just as annoying people pointing out the thumbnails as it's just feeding into the loop.
 
Didn't actually watch the part they were talking about the PS5 Pro did you? I feel like most people here haven't even watched the clip and just want to jump in to shit on DF, GAF is becoming its own echo chamber with this stuff.
You're right :lollipop_Mr_Smith:
 
I was answering somebody who asked how many CPU limited games there were on PS5. I listed what I know and that they may be more. I made no claim that PC games don't have CPU drops nor claimed Spider-Man 2 on PC wouldn't have drops. No need to get upset.
Sorry man for kinda snapping at you.
 

Salty Pickle

Neo Member
Battlefield 2042
Plague Tale
BG3
Dragon's Dogma 2
Gotham Knights
The Quarry
The Medium
Anno 1800

Might be on PS5 one day:
Starfield
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Cities Skyline 2

Those are just off the top of my head that have CPU related drops or 30fps cap due to the CPU. I'm sure there are others, even Spider-Man 2 has the occasional drop due to the CPU.
And how well do these games saturate all cpu cores?
 

Ashamam

Member
I watched the segment, seemed pretty reasonable to me with one gigantic exception when Richard talks about CPU limited games and says 'of which there are many'.

Made me do a double take, because its news to me. Otherwise pretty much full acknowledgement of the benefits that will come from the Pro. Which is a nice change. Oliver as usual has the most intelligent take.

The comments around limitations and fixed resolutions/framerates aren't in the slightest bit controversial. Of course there will be titles that are basically identical between the two SKU's because they have locked fixed targets.

Also the comment about Moore's Law maybe handling 'stolen goods' because he put up the images of documents is ridiculous. Playing with fire sure, but the risk is contractual and only applies to whoever was actually bound by distribution limits. But criminal liability for an outlet publishing them as a leak is just flat out wrong. Maybe a company could try a civil suit for damages or something I guess, but if it had any chance of success I think history would be full of attempts to do that.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Battlefield 2042
Plague Tale
BG3
Dragon's Dogma 2
Gotham Knights
The Quarry
The Medium
Anno 1800

Might be on PS5 one day:
Starfield
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Cities Skyline 2

Those are just off the top of my head that have CPU related drops or 30fps cap due to the CPU. I'm sure there are others, even Spider-Man 2 has the occasional drop due to the CPU.
Id say any PS5 and XSX game that strips out RT in performance mode is CPU bound. Thats basically how Star Wars managed to get 60 fps on consoles. Because without it they were dropping to 640p and still not able to get 60 fps.

  • callisto,
  • watch dogs
  • cyberpunk
  • gran turismo 7
  • guardians of the galaxy
  • RE7 (pc RT only because the game is basically targeting 60 fps in every mode)
  • witcher 3
  • hogwarts
  • dying light 2
  • Forza 8 (definitely CPU bound on PC whenever i turn on RT, most likely on consoles too and why they took out RTGI and released a very shady RT reflection implementation)
  • Deathloop
  • Diablo 4 (no RT on consoles which again like RE7 are targeting 60 fps)
  • Demon Souls (RT shadows stripped out before launch for a game targeting 60 fps. how curious)
  • Hitman 3 (Pc only RT)
  • Returnal (Pc only RT, another 60 fps game)
Had Sony studios shipped RT with their big games like HFW, GOW, Demon Souls, TLOU part 1 and Returnal, we wouldve seen a lot of big games that wouldve shown clear CPU bottlenecks. They just chose not to and were able to avoid the backlash like Dragons Dogma, Gotham knights and other devs who had to settle for 30 fps games with RT on.
 

Ashamam

Member
Id say any PS5 and XSX game that strips out RT in performance mode is CPU bound.
Thats an extremely broad interpretation. Especially for this generation on console given RT is in the nice to have, but not a baseline expectation. Personally I see CPU bound as when the core gameplay mechanics are what are loading up the CPU. eg DD2 is clearly CPU bound, NPC's bring the game to its knees.

If a game can have a performance mode that holds at 60 mostly it isn't CPU bound by definition pretty much in my book. The fact it had to drop RT is just a reflection of the maturity of RT support on consoles. The Pro might change this perhaps, but then again maybe not depending on whether it lightens the RT load on the CPU.

This also isn't addressing the utilisation elephant in the room. When a game is fully optimised for utilisation on CPU/GPU you can get some pretty amazing results, ala Avatar.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Thats an extremely broad interpretation. Especially for this generation on console given RT is in the nice to have, but not a baseline expectation. Personally I see CPU bound as when the core gameplay mechanics are what are loading up the CPU. eg DD2 is clearly CPU bound, NPC's bring the game to its knees.

If a game can have a performance mode that holds at 60 mostly it isn't CPU bound by definition pretty much in my book. The fact it had to drop RT is just a reflection of the maturity of RT support on consoles. The Pro might change this perhaps, but then again maybe not depending on whether it lightens the RT load on the CPU.

This also isn't addressing the utilisation elephant in the room. When a game is fully optimised for utilisation on CPU/GPU you can get some pretty amazing results, ala Avatar.
Pretty sure DD2 is single-thread-bound, not CPU-bound.
 
Battlefield 2042
Plague Tale
BG3
Dragon's Dogma 2
Gotham Knights
The Quarry
The Medium
Anno 1800

Might be on PS5 one day:
Starfield
Microsoft Flight Simulator
Cities Skyline 2

Those are just off the top of my head that have CPU related drops or 30fps cap due to the CPU. I'm sure there are others, even Spider-Man 2 has the occasional drop due to the CPU.


Bg3 has 60 fps mode that mostly hits its target tho right?
 

Mobilemofo

Member
Is there a specific piece of hardware/software Sony could use to handle the ray tracing stuff? Alleviate the pressure ?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
DF asserting titles being CPU bound needs to be taken with heapings of salt. Generally, they don't know, and pass judgements based on PC benchmarking which isn't a totally reliable point of comparison as there are a lot of things that PS5 offloads that PC doesn't.
As per usual never forget DF have no technical credentials, they are PC tweakers first and foremost and couldn't code their way out of paper bag!
Michael at NX has actual experience and that insight is why his analysis is so much more reliable in almost all circumstances.
I've been critical of DF for years because of this defecit, not for any other reason.
 

Ashamam

Member
As per usual never forget DF have no technical credentials
Its a criminally under-resourced niche. I would love it if we saw some devs start up a channel who know what they are talking about and do all the DF analysis along with intelligent informed insights. Seems to me with all the layoffs there must be some potential for finding presenters who can talk the talk and walk the walk.
 

Zathalus

Member
DF asserting titles being CPU bound needs to be taken with heapings of salt. Generally, they don't know, and pass judgements based on PC benchmarking which isn't a totally reliable point of comparison as there are a lot of things that PS5 offloads that PC doesn't.
As per usual never forget DF have no technical credentials, they are PC tweakers first and foremost and couldn't code their way out of paper bag!
Michael at NX has actual experience and that insight is why his analysis is so much more reliable in almost all circumstances.
I've been critical of DF for years because of this defecit, not for any other reason.
The ability to code doesn't give you credentials to know anything either. Just because you might be a wizz with Python, Postman, and your IDE of choice doesn't automatically translate to being an expert in video game benchmarking. Besides knowing when some titles are CPU limited is hardly rocket science.
 

Ashamam

Member
Besides knowing when some titles are CPU limited is hardly rocket science.
I can't count the number of times that DF say they don't know the answer to some question. They are almost entirely observation based. I've said it elsewhere but DF badly need to increase the use of guest devs to flesh out their coverage. They have a lot of experience with their observations so its not like they have no value in their commentary but it definitely lacks a certain deep insight. Whenever they do sort of venture into complex areas they inevitably end up throwing up their hands and saying 'who knows'. Well I can tell you in a lot of cases someone who actually codes in the industry would know! Probably even a project manager would have insights into why decisions are taken.

I also agree with the other poster that NXGamer brings some of this to the table, albeit a little more corporate than in the trenches. Lately he also seems to spend a bit too much time kind of saying I told you so, and could do with some positive coaching on how to present. But still he is a valuable commentator.
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The ability to code doesn't give you credentials to know anything either. Just because you might be a wizz with Python, Postman, and your IDE of choice doesn't automatically translate to being an expert in video game benchmarking. Besides knowing when some titles are CPU limited is hardly rocket science.

Experience helps a ton when trying to figure out specifics. Looking from the outside in only gets you so far.
I mean just seeing 100% load on a core doesn't mean that it's fully loaded with work. It could be hanging in a deadloop waiting to sync with another thread. Or it could be burning cycles on tasks that in other builds are offloaded onto GPU or other custom hardware Very important as the PS5's I/o complex handles a bunch of stuff, including decomp/data swizzling, it's sound core handles RT and channel muxing for spatial calculation etc.
And above all else, the biggest issue is bus contention. Saturate that and the impact is felt system wise.
Cache hits/misses pale into insignificance comparatively because process efficiency is contingent on actually having data ready to work with!

If nothing else everyone should have figured out how impactful this is based on historical performance of systems with homogeneous memory architecture Vs heterogeneous ones.
 

Radical_3d

Member
Yeah, not sure how anyone here can have an issue with what they said. They literally just claimed that games with dropped performance or dynamic resolution should see a good boost but games that are resolution or FPS locked should see no boost without developer intervention. That is apparently controversial now?

DF coverage here has basically devolved to the following:

DaX-FvXUQAA54aS.jpg


It's basically everyone jumping in front out of each other to make up any ol bullshit to farm likes.
While this is true I also feel like they need to implement an “John always on” rule for their directs. Is the least hated member and I swear to god that if Batalla says that the sky is blue I’ll scream that it is green.
 

Schmendrick

Member
Lol when asked what would 5090 do to improve todays gaming they gag lol "eeeeee"
of course. 50xx cards are a waste of everyone time. 4080 is fine and 4090 even more so.
Outside of extreme resolutions of VR, I don't see any reason for the new cards
I don`t get such a myopic view from someone who`s somewhat engaged on an enthusiast board like this.
For starters, what is an extreme resolution? 4k is quickly becoming the norm and anything widescreen at a high PPI level is already halfway to 8k.
I´m sporting 7680 x 2160 @ up to 240Hz on my 57" G9. Even a 5090 will probably not be able to go anywhere near what the monitor can do in demanding games. And we already have the next generation of lighting tech in games around the corner with pathtracing.
It may be completely unnecessary for the mainstream...but with NVIDIA`s price structure since mid-Ampere...that`s not the target audience anymore anyways.
 
Rich is completely full of sh** about the whole thing with some incredibly desingenous reporting.
games that already run with a 30fps or 60fps cap won't gain anything in term of performance
How many 30fps capped games on PS5 Pro? 2 out of 3000? The last notable one being Gotham Knights was released nearly 2 years ago (and this one actually RT GPU limited on consoles). This is not journalism, this is activism applied to console warring. The only console that is still receiving 30fps capped games are his loved Xbox consoles, not PS5.

Besides Tom Warren never talked about framerate games in his reporting and only about "fixed resolution" and "graphical settings". He is litteraly putting his own lying narrative into Tom Warren's words. Trying to generalize the 30fps capped Microsoft games like if it was also the case on PS5. It's really a pity John wasn't there to correct him as it's the last sane mind in DF crew.
 
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