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[Woopah]

This guy isn't a parent...

I have no idea who that is, or why they are relevant to the discussion.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I have no idea who that is, or why they are relevant to the discussion.

Disney kidult + Nintendo kidult are essentially the same person.

 

[BlackTron]

The fine print is written below the 2017 graph. Though it isnt a fatality because it doesn't show how many of the adults are parents.

Thank you. At least someone stepped up.

Looking at the fine print, the survey was conducted among existing Switch owners. If you ask an existing Switch owner who has the strongest desire in their house to acquire a Switch, combined with the other data that most users are adults, it paints a picture of...I already have a fucking Switch but my kids want another. Strange that lines up perfectly with all my anecdotal experience

 

[Impotaku]

This guy isn't a parent...

We get it, you went to Disney we don’t need to see all your holiday photos.

 

[Woopah]

Disney kidult + Nintendo kidult are essentially the same person.

And that person would still be an adult.

I'm sure that a lot of they 130 million Switch owners enjoy some Disney products. But that doesn't tell us anything about their age.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

And that person would still be an adult.

I'm sure that a lot of they 130 million Switch owners enjoy some Disney products. But that doesn't tell us anything about their age.

It does tell us about their maturity level.

 

[NickFire]

I think Nintendo prefers to lead its own way than follow someone else's.

 

[Woopah]

It does tell us about their maturity level.i

It doesn't do that either. Owning a Switch or subscribing to Disney plus tells us nothing about whether someone is financially responsible / their career / their family situation.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It doesn't do that either. Owning a Switch or subscribing to Disney plus tells us nothing about whether someone is financially responsible / their career / their family situation.

Do you think the population of Nintendo kidults have more or less of the things you listed relative to peers?

Oh God, now I'm picturing a 34 year old single man signing up for Disney Plus.

 

[NeverYouMind]

LOL at Nintendo games no longer being influencial.
There are BOTW clones, Splatoon clones, Pokemon clones, Animal Crossing clones, classic Zelda clones, Metroidvanias, Kart racers, Mascot crossover fighters, casual sports and party games, motion based games, fitness games. Out of Nintendo's big franchises perhaps the only one that hasn't been copied to death is 3D Mario and that's probably more to do with how few developers have the expertise to make such a game. Even smaller franchises like Advance Wars and Pikmin have inspired multiple indie games this gen.

Can you actually name any that are not based on games made 20+ years ago? Nintendo did not invent Kart Racers that was Sega with Power Drift... Konami's Castlevania beat Metroid to market and it remains one of the worst classic 2D game designs. Only good (not even great) game in the entire subgenre is Symphony of the Night. Sport and party games were a thing long before Nintendo got its filthy mits on them. If you want to give them credit for creating fitness games (despite an absurd amount of predecessors) go ahead, but that is just scraping the bottom of the barrel in the entire medium. Sure Super Mario Bros. and Legend of Zelda made waves at release, but that was 30+ years ago. They are high and dry riding only on fumes at this point in time.

Nobody’s making them because… inability.

Ubi tried and with all their money and staff, all they could make was another endless collectathon with bad puzzles.

I have played better quality indie titles in the last 10 years than modern Nintendo games.

Ubisoft like Nintendo does not understand open world design. It is not supposed to be copying and pasting variations of the same challenges across a vast landscape. It is intended to create unique experiences across an unexplored and visually distinctive terrain.

 

[Woopah]

Do you think the population of Nintendo kidults have more or less of the things you listed relative to peers?

I would expect the average Switch user to be average in terms of those things. Same with the average PS5 or Xbox Series owner.

Obviously this is just anecdotal, but of the people I know there is no correlation between console ownership and home ownership.

I've had a couple of friends buy a Switch this year and a couple buy a PS5, and have not noticed any impact on their maturity levels.

 

[deriks]

All Nintendo franchises have legendary industry change titles. In their entire life, they struggle for only three years - and even this struggle was like loosing money that they have on the bank, not really bleeding like basically every company in the world does

If there's a company that you can't question their ability about making games is Nintendo

 

[LakeOf9]

Can you actually name any that are not based on games made 20+ years ago?

In the years since its release, multiple games and developers have cited Breath of the Wild as an inspiration. These include Genshin Impact,[204] Ghost of Tsushima,[205] Immortals Fenyx Rising,[206] Telling Lies,[207] Halo Infinite,[208] Elden Ring,[209] and Forspoken.[210] Similarities have also been noted between Breath of the Wild and other open-world games since its launch, including Pokémon Legends: Arceus,[211] Sonic Frontiers [212][213] and Horizon Forbidden West.[214]

Seven year old game.

Next.

--

BlackTron Woopah I think it's best to not engage with the troll anymore and let them hijack the entire thread at this point lol

 

[NeverYouMind]

In the years since its release, multiple games and developers have cited Breath of the Wild as an inspiration. These include Genshin Impact,[204] Ghost of Tsushima,[205] Immortals Fenyx Rising,[206] Telling Lies,[207] Halo Infinite,[208] Elden Ring,[209] and Forspoken.[210] Similarities have also been noted between Breath of the Wild and other open-world games since its launch, including Pokémon Legends: Arceus,[211] Sonic Frontiers [212][213] and Horizon Forbidden West.[214]

Seven year old game.

Next.

--

BlackTron Woopah I think it's best to not engage with the troll anymore and let them hijack the entire thread at this point lol

Yeah... like I would believe that Telling Lies (a completely different genre in every conceivable way mechanically) was inspired in its design by Breath of the Wild. I am not even going to waste time going through that list when you throw in something so intellectually dishonest in there. Also, a hint: Just being open world after the release of Breath of the Wild doesn't mean its design is inspired by it. If it has no structural or mechanical similarities it is just fud.

 

[LakeOf9]

Yeah... like I would believe that Telling Lies (a completely different genre in every conceivable way mechanically) was inspired in its design by Breath of the Wild. I am not even going to waste time going through that list when you throw in something so intellectually dishonest in there. Also, a hint: Just being open world after the release of Breath of the Wild doesn't mean its design is inspired by it. If it has no structural or mechanical similarities it is just fud.

As with the other genius I was talking to, it is absolutely certain that you, a NeoGAF poster, will know more about what inspired the development of a game more than the actual developers themselves will.

 

[NeverYouMind]

As with the other genius I was talking to, it is absolutely certain that you, a NeoGAF poster, will know more about what inspired the development of a game more than the actual developers themselves will.

Alright Braniac, here is a homework assignment: Describe every mechanic Telling Lies has in common with Breath of the Wild. Should be easy since it was inspired by it according to you.

 

[Woopah]

Yeah... like I would believe that Telling Lies (a completely different genre in every conceivable way mechanically) was inspired in its design by Breath of the Wild. I am not even going to waste time going through that list when you throw in something so intellectually dishonest in there. Also, a hint: Just being open world after the release of Breath of the Wild doesn't mean its design is inspired by it. If it has no structural or mechanical similarities it is just fud.

When someone goes to the effort of finding and linking multiple sources to support their argument, the least you could is read them. There's nothing "intellectually dishonest" about providing sources.

I've copied the relevant part here to make it easier for you:

Her Story creator Sam Barlow talked openly in many interviews about how his newest project, Telling Lies, was inspired by Breath of the Wild. While that game isn’t about exploration in a traditional sense, it asks players to pore through dozens of hours of video footage. Each word an actor utters is indexed, and I only need to click on a more compelling noun to turn away from what I was originally doing to find a more interesting trail.

“The comparison [I always make is that] walking or running towards something interesting in Zelda was, in itself, interesting and enjoyable,” Barlow told me at GDC this year. “It was not like some open-world games where I’m going from A to B because I have to. I wanted to figure out how to make scrubbing through these videos the equivalent of running through a field in Zelda. The journey should be enjoyable.”

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Can you actually name any that are not based on games made 20+ years ago?

Yes? Every game influenced by BOTW and Splatoon?
You don't have to like Nintendo games to admit their designs are influential. And no one is claiming they exist in a vacuum and don't take inspiration from others, either. BOTW takes plenty from the likes of Skyrim and Monster Hunter.

 

[NeverYouMind]

While that game isn’t about exploration in a traditional sense, it asks players to pore through dozens of hours of video footage.

Read the fine print. It is fud. It takes no actual inspiration. It is an example of equivocation fallacy.

 

[BlackTron]

Do you think the population of Nintendo kidults have more or less of the things you listed relative to peers?

Oh God, now I'm picturing a 34 year old single man signing up for Disney Plus.

So wait. Do you think adult Nintendo buyers have things like jobs and kids, explaining away their Switch purchase?

Or do you think adult Nintendo buyers don't have jobs and kids, thus proving their immaturity?

 

[Woopah]

Read the fine print. It is fud. It takes no actual inspiration. It is an example of equivocation fallacy.

I read the whole thing. The game creator has cited BOTW as an inspiration in terms of design philosophy in multiple interviews.

Games can inspire in different ways. BOTW's inspiration for Imortals was it's structure and puzzles. While for Ghost of Tsushima, BOTW's influence was its art direction.

 

[Last Hearth]

Nintendo is McDonald’s, Sony is Ruth’s Chris. You might like Ruth’s Chris Steak more than a McDonalds Burger, but McDobalds makes more money and isn’t interested in selling high end steak at their restaurants.

 

[BlackTron]

As with the other genius I was talking to, it is absolutely certain that you, a NeoGAF poster, will know more about what inspired the development of a game more than the actual developers themselves will.

Hahaha game forum posters know more about what influenced a game than its director!

Just say the director was wrong and dishonest about it, and presto!

But if someone said their game was influenced by the art design of a strand of hair in Abby's armpit, praise the lord for delivering the Good News™

 

[NeverYouMind]

I read the whole thing. The game creator has cited BOTW as an inspiration in terms of design philosophy in multiple interviews.

Games can inspire in different ways. BOTW's inspiration for Imortals was it's structure and puzzles. While for Ghost of Tsushima, BOTW's influence was its art direction.

Ghost of Tsushima has nothing in common with Breath of the Wild with regards to its art direction and Telling Lies even more so in every category. Immortals: Fenix Rising might be the only one with any surface level similarities. However, I would not be surprised to find that it is mechanically a completely different game. These so called "inspirational" references are just marketing not genuine reverence of design shown through imitation.

 

[mdkirby]

Because they are way more profit focussed. Their games cost way less to make than something like the last of us. Then they promptly sell them at mostly RRP for forever. In addition they skimp on their hardware specs again to maximise profits. Simpler cartoony styles with just a really good aesthetic hold up way better on weak hardware than mature realistic art styles, which would if they attempted it, instantly draw unsavoury comparisons with the competition. That’d be my guess anyhow.

 

[Woopah]

Ghost of Tsushima has nothing in common with Breath of the Wild with regards to its art direction and Telling Lies even more so in every other category. Immortals: Fenix Rising might be the only one with any surface level similarities. However, I would not be surprised to find that it is mechanically a completely different game. These so called "inspirational" references are more like marketing than genuine reverence of design shown through imitation.

Inspiration doesn't mean copy.

It is the game developers themselves saying that BOTW is an inspiration or influence:

"Ghost of Tsushima Creative Director Jason Conne mentioned that Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Shadow of the Colossus are not only two of his favorite games of all time, but they were also a big influence for Ghost of Tsushima mainly due to their simple, yet very deep artistic direction, which he wanted to replicate in this game albeit with better visual fidelity."
and the Associate Director of Immortals:

"Then we started to look at a lot of that, and obviously we’ve seen early on similarities with Breath of the Wild – mainly in terms of structure of the game – so we looked at that, we looked at what they did for puzzles because it was a pretty big inspiration."

 

[NeverYouMind]

Inspiration doesn't mean copy.

It does actually. If it is not imitated in some manner, then it is not genuinely inspired by it. It does not have to be a verbatim knock-off, but parallels should be easy to see.

"Then we started to look at a lot of that, and obviously we’ve seen early on similarities with Breath of the Wild – mainly in terms of structure of the game – so we looked at that, we looked at what they did for puzzles because it was a pretty big inspiration."

That is the only example that actually fits the bill for inspiration. The rest are just empty statements of adoration or springboards (i.e. common ground) for conceptualizing something.

 

[BouncyFrag]

I like Ninty the way they are. Tired, boring PS exclusives will hopefully get out of the phase they are in.

 

[Woopah]

It does actually. If it is not imitated in some manner, then it is not genuinely inspired by it. It does not have to be a verbatim knock-off, but parallels should be easy to see.

Not really, just look at the Ghost example.

They cited two games as big influences. The influence was that they wanted to achieve a simple yet deep artistic direction, just like those other titles had done.

The influence wasn't "make our game look like Shadow of the Colossus" or "make our game look like Breath of the Wild".

Edit: Here's some other Ghost of Tsushima quotes where they talk about inspiration. It's not just copying mechanics:

"I would say the number one inspiration for the title was Red Dead Redemption - not Red Dead 2 but Red Dead Redemption, - because they did such a fantastic job bringing the fantasy of being an outlaw cowboy to life. Landscape, the way that people talk to you, the way that you move - all have it brought you into that identity."

"When we're building the game, and a game like Breath of the Wild comes out - that does such an amazing job of showing how the power of curiosity can be stoked in all these many ways. "
While we always wanted you [to] be transported to Tsushima Island and not butter things up, I think that that game really inspired us to try even harder, to go deeper, to just clear out the decks so that you could be just as present as possible in Tsushima."

 

[NeverYouMind]

Not really, just look at the Ghost example.

They cited two games as big influences. The influence was that they wanted to achieve a simple yet deep artistic direction, just like those other titles had done.

The influence wasn't "make our game look like Shadow of the Colossus" or "make our game look like Breath of the Wild".

In the context of media it makes no sense to use inspired by in the sense of being motivated by a media product, which is in itself a cohesive package of ideas, without incorporating it in some manner. If it was an external stimulus driving creativity such as desperation, then certainly.

 

[Woopah]

In the context of media it makes no sense to use inspired by in the sense of being motivated by a media product, which is in itself a cohesive package of ideas, without incorporating it in some manner. If it was an external stimulus driving creativity such as desperation, then certainly.

I just added some other Ghost quotes to my previous post.

Red Dead Redemption was their number 1 inspiration, and it was in terms of bringing a fantasy to life for the player. Whereas Breath of the Wild's inspiration was in terms of stroking the power of curiosity in different ways.

It showed them what was possible and some of the ways you can achieve things.

So it was 'RDR uses the speech of NPCs and the animations of the main character to immerse you in the world, lets do the same'.

And not 'we need to incorporate the animations of John Marston into our game'.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Red Dead Redemption was their number 1 inspiration, and it was in terms of bringing a fantasy to life for the player. Whereas Breath of the Wild's inspiration was in terms of stroking the power of curiosity in different ways.

It showed them what was possible and some of the ways you can achieve things

Curiosity is an inherent human trait. It does not turn on and off at the whim of a videogame designer. The best they can do is reward exploration as every other open world game has done for decades. Most discoverable rewards infinitely better than a handful of useless currency or a weapon that breaks after three swings or the occassional fragment of an upgrade material.

 

[Woopah]

Curiosity is an inherent human trait. It does not turn on and off at the whim of a videogame designer. The best they can do is reward exploration as every other open world game has done for decades. Most infinitely better than a handful of useless Rupees or a weapon that breaks after three swings or the occassional fragment of an upgrade.

Given that Sucker Punch were inspired by how Breath of the Wild did an amazing job of stoking curiosity in many ways, the game must have done something right.

Ultimately the way you or I feel about BOTW does not change the fact it inspired Sucker Punch.

 

[zenspider]

Because they make games that are fun to play. Not games I have to watch.

But if that isn’t an answer, they do have narrative games, it’s their RPG’s.

Savage.

 

[zenspider]

Their target audience is 12yr olds and they make family content. They are not going for hardcore audience.

Yawn. This is such a played out take. Nintendo's target audience is everyone. Also, games are not "hardcore" or "casual", players are.

 

[iHaunter]

Confused about what "Diversity" you're talking about. They've made the same 4 games for 20 years.

 

[BlackTron]

It does actually. If it is not imitated in some manner, then it is not genuinely inspired by it. It does not have to be a verbatim knock-off, but parallels should be easy to see.


That is the only example that actually fits the bill for inspiration. The rest are just empty statements of adoration or springboards (i.e. common ground) for conceptualizing something.

This is false. Being inspired by something doesn't mean that it should be "easy to see" for your audience, and it's not your place to dictate or lecture to any creative type whether they really were inspired by something, or if it was something else going on. This is a view that perceives a superficial layer as the whole cake.

Imagine listening to your favorite album nonstop for a year, then writing a song. Even if the song had nothing objectively in common with that album, I'd be astonished and skeptical if you said it wasn't somehow inspired by it. Inspiration =/= imitation. It's okay if you personally have a different view of what inspiration is, but I'm going to go out on a limb that you're not a creative type banging out masterpieces with this kind of idea that inspiration means you turn into some doppelganger of Claudia Gay where we forum users can just underline the copied parts.

 

[Woopah]

Confused about what "Diversity" you're talking about. They've made the same 4 games for 20 years.

In terms of franchises and genres. Although 2023 was not great for them in terms of franchise diversity (too much Mario).

Last year for example they published 10 IPs in 5 genres.