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Brazil is in the Middle of a f***** Outrage right now
- Thread starter KeyChainDude
- Start date
- Status
Barely. Her popularity dropped majorly ever since. Only 10% of the people like the way she been handling things.
The majority DOES want an impeachment, and theres legal grounds, so what bullshit excuse you got now?
You are forgeting the BILLIONS of people who stayed at home
Yeah, the planet got 7 billion people, that means only very few people want dilma out right?
Oh yeah, and Diretas Já only had 500 thousand people, that means only 0,5% of the brazilian population was against the Militar Dictatorship right?!?!?
Theres actual researches and opinion pools.
And jesus christ, are you really making the argument that people that are home = people that support dilma? That doesnt make any sense, and like I said before, that statement basically says everyone loved the dictatorship.
Let's not forget it's hard to keep up with politican debates and happenning when you're poor and dealing with a harsch life, wich is the case for most brazilians i guess. If it's hard in France, I can't imagine how hard it must be in Brazil. You can't blame people to vote for the wrong person if they're not educated to do otherwise and does not even have some future perspective.
And_Gignac
Member
Is kind of telling, isnt? It tells you who is fueling the "outrage". It comes from places of concentrated wealth.
The protests are an evident catharsis due to the failing economy, that has more to do with neoliberal trade of commodities than with Petrobas corruption sucking the wealth out of the economy. The right wing is just playing along and setting the tone.
Ok ... WHO LOVES SOME LORD OF THE RINGS OR BRAVEHEART ?
Because tomorrow is taking shape a huge battlefield at Av Paulista.
FROM ONEEEEE SIDEEE, 21 barracks of well eaten¹ pro-impeachment people with the Militar Police on their side²
AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, JUST 260 METERS AWAY ... Lula and EVERYONE THE MILITARY POLICE LOVES TO BEAT UP
Because tomorrow is taking shape a huge battlefield at Av Paulista.
FROM ONEEEEE SIDEEE, 21 barracks of well eaten¹ pro-impeachment people with the Militar Police on their side²
AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, JUST 260 METERS AWAY ... Lula and EVERYONE THE MILITARY POLICE LOVES TO BEAT UP
³ said:UNE
MTS
CUT
CMP
¹ - FIESP building gave Filet Mignon for the pro-impeachment people
² - Rumors are that the Military Police will be VERY one sided
³ - images found after a fast google search, might refer to different times those groups were beaten
² - Rumors are that the Military Police will be VERY one sided
³ - images found after a fast google search, might refer to different times those groups were beaten
Ok ... WHO LOVES SOME LORD OF THE RINGS OR BRAVEHEART ?
Because tomorrow is taking shape a huge battlefield at Av Paulista.
FROM ONEEEEE SIDEEE, 21 barracks of well eaten¹ pro-impeachment people with the Militar Police on their side²
AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, JUST 260 METERS AWAY ... Lula and EVERYONE THE MILITARY POLICE LOVES TO BEAT UP
¹ - FIESP building gave Filet Mignon for the pro-impeachment people
² - Rumors are that the Military Police will be VERY one sided
³ - images found after a fast google search, might refer to different times those groups were beaten
This is something we can agree on.
I fear for the well being of anyone that is pro-dilma right now.
I'll pray that everything goes ok tomorrow.
Youta Mottenai
Member
Unfortunately, it doesn't' matter pointing facts, we, still, will have people crying "it's all an illega/evil plan from the rich/elite/media to destroy democracy".
It´s almost like a conspiracy theory, the more facts against it (or by some posts, anything against it), is just more proof of the conspiracy.
It's mildly amusing when about aliens, not so much when about politicians corruption.
P.S. - Also hope things keep being pacific as it was Sunday.
forknknife
Banned
I'll admit my wrong, I did not know the issues in such good detail so probably i should have not defended my point of view like i did. In any case, I'm 100% against corruption so, if Dilma, Lula or whoever is found guilty of it i don't give two shits about them, they must pay for it. Having said that, looking at many of the protesters claims makes me vomit more than any corruption scandal. The classiest, elitist, racist and religious extremist reactions being displayed by large part of those crowds is just sickening. You should be addressing that too ASAP.
Brazil, unfortunately, isn't as relevant in the minds of many as it ought to be, especially considering the international event happening in a few months, its status on the economy, amongst other key factors.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Some impressive pics of parades in São Paulo
I don't think I've ever seen this many people in one place before. That's nuts.
KeyChainDude
Member
Brazil's President of the Chamber of Deputies, Eduardo Cunha, is now a defendant in the same case where Lula is being judged. The decision has been made unanimously by the Supreme Court (10 votes x 0).
http://g1.globo.com/politica/operac...dium=share-bar-desktop&utm_campaign=share-bar
It's like watching the Season Finale of a FUCKING FANTASTIC series, keep the good news coming!
http://g1.globo.com/politica/operac...dium=share-bar-desktop&utm_campaign=share-bar
It's like watching the Season Finale of a FUCKING FANTASTIC series, keep the good news coming!
You're next, Aécio!
3 of March, look at the date : \
http://g1.globo.com/sao-paulo/notic...ar-manifestantes-que-interditam-paulista.html
KeyChainDude
Member
Oh that's true, my bad. Still, it could be something.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
TIL Brazil-GAF screams at each other
Best of luck to all, protests are both terrifying and empowering.
Best of luck to all, protests are both terrifying and empowering.
This is a fun headline :
40 of the 60 politicians in the impeachment comission received money from companies that are investigated by Lava Jato and 4 politicians directly being investigated by Lava Jato.
How do you fight this kind of internalized corruption ? =P
oh the crysis
5 gas bombs total and some water and then they let the people stay on one road and even camp on the street ... how cute !
Try SEVEN GAS BOMBS EACH SECOND to see how one sided is when people ask for actual things against the will of Alckmin
40 of the 60 politicians in the impeachment comission received money from companies that are investigated by Lava Jato and 4 politicians directly being investigated by Lava Jato.
How do you fight this kind of internalized corruption ? =P
oh the crysis
5 gas bombs total and some water and then they let the people stay on one road and even camp on the street ... how cute !
Try SEVEN GAS BOMBS EACH SECOND to see how one sided is when people ask for actual things against the will of Alckmin
I hope we don't stop here, I hope we keep pushing until we get all of them. From PT to PSDB.
When you get someone, they'll open their mouths, and many will be dragged, rightful so, into this. I'm 23 and I've never had any trust in our leaders, nor met anyone that did. It's been disgusting since when I can remember, with no signs of getting better, but instead, getting worse by the second.
When you get someone, they'll open their mouths, and many will be dragged, rightful so, into this. I'm 23 and I've never had any trust in our leaders, nor met anyone that did. It's been disgusting since when I can remember, with no signs of getting better, but instead, getting worse by the second.
In any barely serious country, the mere thought of appointing someone who is under heavy investigation to a top level position witihin the government would bring immediate hell to the president, who would, of course, back off and appoint someone else.
Not in Brazil, though, where the president not only appoints this guy as a top Minister, but effectively joins him in battling the investigations, criticizing the institutions that are supposed to do just that.
He may be innocent, but what sane president would simply go ahead with it instead of appointing someone else while the investigations come to a conclusion? Which sane president would deliberately tie himiself/herself to a guy who is in the verge of having his prison demanded? Which barely sane party would'd rather risk its image by appointing a potential crimminal, instead of moving away from him?
It maybe be legal - the guy has not been convicted of anything yet - but it sure is unethical and frankly just stupid. You don't do that. You don't associate your government with the biggest target in a corruption network investigation. You don't laugh on the face of the judiciary system. You don't go around ignoring the clues that tell this guy is envolved on most everything that came before - and that already lead to the arrestment of more than a dozen members of your government and combined convictions of 1.000 years in jail.
It's political suicide and it should be. There's no other way around it.
Not in Brazil, though, where the president not only appoints this guy as a top Minister, but effectively joins him in battling the investigations, criticizing the institutions that are supposed to do just that.
He may be innocent, but what sane president would simply go ahead with it instead of appointing someone else while the investigations come to a conclusion? Which sane president would deliberately tie himiself/herself to a guy who is in the verge of having his prison demanded? Which barely sane party would'd rather risk its image by appointing a potential crimminal, instead of moving away from him?
It maybe be legal - the guy has not been convicted of anything yet - but it sure is unethical and frankly just stupid. You don't do that. You don't associate your government with the biggest target in a corruption network investigation. You don't laugh on the face of the judiciary system. You don't go around ignoring the clues that tell this guy is envolved on most everything that came before - and that already lead to the arrestment of more than a dozen members of your government and combined convictions of 1.000 years in jail.
It's political suicide and it should be. There's no other way around it.
Thats the problem with most countries in Latin America, the Government doesnt care what the people think.
Look here in Panama, Odebrecht is under the eye of the storm. People want the Government to stop hiring them for build stuff. What does the Government do? Continue hiring them and changing a law so they can still work here.
Like somebody said, this is a problem with our culture, which I doubt will change anytime soon.
Raijin_Cain
Member
How can you make that statement if you just said you are not completely up to par with the news?
People asking for that are a ridiculous minority. Incredibly small.
Sunday we had the biggest protest done in the history of our nation and there was no violence, no issues. I watched the news all day long and I saw no signs asking for "military dictatorship" or any of the kind.
Not saying that some insane people could have brought it. But it was such a small group that it didnt make the news. I saw no pictures of it.
One step at a time. What's the alternative right now? Do nothing? Allow these criminals to remain because there are others we cant do anything about right now?
The protests in 2013 allowed the passing of a law allowing "delação premiada" ("snitching laws" lol) and that in turn helped the Car Wash Investigation become what it is and the things it has already accomplished.
Who knows what else will come from this, One step at the time. We get better a little each time.
KeyChainDude
Member
My thoughts exactly. Baby steps to a (hopefully) big jump in our democracy in the future.
This always makes me roll my eyes.
I know is ingrained in Brazilian culture to exaggerate everything, but trust me on this one, you are not even close to the awful mess that is Venezuela.
Yep, democracy build slowly but when it's here, it's meant to stay in general.
KarneeKarnay
Member
I've been looking into the situation in Brazil for the last couple of days and while I won't presume to know as much as half the people here, this post. +1
This is political suicide. Anyone with half a mind would know this, so the only reason I can assume that someone, who gets to be President of one of the largest countries in the world, would do this, is that this guys has something on her. There are only two outcomes from the President's decision that makes sense to me.
1. She gives him up. Drop him like it's going out of fashion and pray he doesn't spill the beans on any dirt he has on me. If that happens, she might just get through without being impeached. (Probably too late for that now.)
2. She escalates. She brings the Army in, declares a State of Emergency.Except she can't. I keep hearing that there is a big threat that this is all just a setup for Military Government to be installed. There is support from the population, but how big that support is anyone's guess.
This last one is the worst option and I don't think she will take it. This has gotten too far and it will be impossible to put this all onto one person. I wouldn't be surprised if a transitional government was created to keep order until new elections could be organised. This whole movement and political climate fascinates me. Am I wrong in my assumptions?
KeyChainDude
Member
At least in the bolded part, yes. The population doesn't support a military coup AT ALL, we've suffered from years of dictatorship the last time it happened. Some isolated gradma's are out in the street with signs like "Military Intervention Now", but they're a very, very small minority not representative of the general opinion at all.
First, it's ridiculous to call Lula the most corrupt president of a country that, just after the dictatorship, had people like Sarney and Collor on top. And Fernando Henrique had a huge amount of corruption scandals, like buying votes for his second term as president.
The protests are not about "corruption", they are against the government in specific. They started before the Lava-Jato investigations got big (actually when Dilma won the second time) and everything is against the PT, nothing against Cunha, PSDB and other corrupt politicians.
It is a classical right wing protest since they can't take 15 years of left-wing government. It's full of people calling for a return of the military dictatorship, posters saying that Brasil must go back to being right-wing (endireita Brasil) and criticizing PT's supposed communism (which is bullshit). In interviews with protesters you also see a lot of attacks against any aid programs, with people calling poor people parasites or vagabundos (lazy bums).
One of the most applauded politicians in these protests is Jair Bolsonaro, who would make Trump and Cruz look like progressive champions.
The investigations have been quite biased against the PT, with the 1000 leaks to the big media groups (who hate the PT) and almost not touching denounced PSDB politicians.
Lula can still be judged by the supreme court which has already sent some of the historic PT leaders to jail in the Mensalao scandal. So he does not have the same immunity as a congressman. There is also a lot of ideological issues with some of the figures in the Lava jato case. Why do you go on about Marx and Hegel (meaning Engels) in a corruption case?
All in all, while Dilma's first government was weak (her second hasn't really started, since congress blocks everything), this is a classic right-wing response like there are every few decades in Latin American countries. There hadn't been one in Brazil since 64, so I guess it was time.
Lies, lies, lies, and more lies.
Everyone knows it, you know it, stop pushing it. This very thread has already categorically proven wrong every single statement you made regarding the demographics of the protests, its goals, the investigation process, and the role of the media in all of this.
I'm very interested in hearing who all anti-PT people here on GAF support (it's completely legitimate to be anti-PT). You never hear it, it's always a "everyone sucks". That's not really a political position that brings anything further.
Because it would be very strange for anti-corruption people to support someone like Aécio or Alckmin, since it would seem slightly hipocritical.
ethomaz
Banned
The situation is not like the OP express... well it is bad and of course there are a lot of shit happening but the OP is over exagerating a bit.
There are a lot of bias and class division in people opinions in Brasil too.
Dilma is not doing a good job too and that helps to complicate the situation.
The economic crisis is new for yungers but it is by fair the light economic crisis we had in the country... I have fear for worst economic crisis like we had in 1980-1990 decades.
There are a lot of bias and class division in people opinions in Brasil too.
Dilma is not doing a good job too and that helps to complicate the situation.
The economic crisis is new for yungers but it is by fair the light economic crisis we had in the country... I have fear for worst economic crisis like we had in 1980-1990 decades.
Coriolanus
Banned
But that bolicastrian communodictatorship tho.
The weird bit is that we once were an awful mess like Venezuela. Suffered from lack of groceries, severely devalued currency, price control, the works.
Problem is, obvious, that allathat happened during the presidency of well-known communist José Sarney.
ethomaz
Banned
That is because the OP is over exaggerating a lot
Brazil ifself already had way worst crisis...
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
A squid fucking a carwash sounds exciting
There is a Splatoon/Mario Sunshine fanfic about this somewhere
It's funny you trying to refute OPs exaggerations and sweeping generalizations by making them yourself.
pauloshinobi
Member
Dilma suffers from a severe lack of preparation for rule a country. Specially when the majority of the congress is focused in fucking you up in every way. Their alliance with PMDB backfired beautifully.
With this, it shouldn't be a surprise that the country now faces a financial crisis. Everyone is way too busy minding their own agenda.
PT trying to survive to it's worst time in history. It doesn't help that Moro's shit machine gun barrage keeps fucking them down.
PSDB and allied parties are too busy hiding themselves from Lava Jato, and working to avoid that the news against them spread around. Besides that they keep dreaming about the day they will take over the government.
PMDB are just the rats running away from a sunken ship. They will align themselves with whoever has the command.
Both Government and Opposition are tearing this country apart. There is no union, people treat politics like Wrestling, Soap opera, or football. In the end there must be a hero and villains. In this case judge Moro and PT (ledt oriented parties in general)
In other words, one term resumes our situation: CLUSTERFUCK.
With this, it shouldn't be a surprise that the country now faces a financial crisis. Everyone is way too busy minding their own agenda.
PT trying to survive to it's worst time in history. It doesn't help that Moro's shit machine gun barrage keeps fucking them down.
PSDB and allied parties are too busy hiding themselves from Lava Jato, and working to avoid that the news against them spread around. Besides that they keep dreaming about the day they will take over the government.
PMDB are just the rats running away from a sunken ship. They will align themselves with whoever has the command.
Both Government and Opposition are tearing this country apart. There is no union, people treat politics like Wrestling, Soap opera, or football. In the end there must be a hero and villains. In this case judge Moro and PT (ledt oriented parties in general)
In other words, one term resumes our situation: CLUSTERFUCK.
Maintenance
Member
That's all they can do.
On topic, pictures of the protest pro-government happening today:
Giantess or even kaijū + Splatoon. Million seller in Japan confirmed.
Operations
Member
Excuse me, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about,
"Brazils gross domestic product fell by a record 4.5 per cent year-on-year in the third quarter, confirming fears that Latin Americas largest country is on track for its worst recession since the Great Depression."
"Brazils economy shrank 3.8 per cent in 2015, putting what was once one of the worlds fastest-growing large emerging markets on track to suffer its worst recession since official records began."
https://next.ft.com/content/d2d7e33e-982c-11e5-bdda-9f13f99fa654
https://next.ft.com/content/57a3a1e8-e13e-11e5-8d9b-e88a2a889797
Coriolanus
Banned
The problem with trying to focus solely on one stat is that you then end up with results like this:
Sauce. Out of date, obv. Dilma should be lower by now.
now, does anyone actually think that Sarney was the second best thing to happen to this country's economy since we left the dictatorship?
lol at this being a light economic crisis.
It's not only terrible, it's 100% self-inflicted. No revisionist history needed here -- we all remember the government's reelection campaigns claiming there was no crisis, there were no issues, there was no risk of inflation.
They used those and many other lies to bury a solid candidate, and then win over another one on the second round, all while experts pointed out clearly and consistently the issues.
Pick any other stat you wish.
Employment Deltas, inflation, you name it. The relevant comparison is the impact of the government in the economy, not the numbers in a vacuum. This is well understood and accepted in economic analysis.
The country is currently going through a stagflation period, well known around the world as the worst possible outcome for an economy.
It's not only terrible, it's 100% self-inflicted. No revisionist history needed here -- we all remember the government's reelection campaigns claiming there was no crisis, there were no issues, there was no risk of inflation.
They used those and many other lies to bury a solid candidate, and then win over another one on the second round, all while experts pointed out clearly and consistently the issues.
Pick any other stat you wish.
Employment Deltas, inflation, you name it. The relevant comparison is the impact of the government in the economy, not the numbers in a vacuum. This is well understood and accepted in economic analysis.
The country is currently going through a stagflation period, well known around the world as the worst possible outcome for an economy.
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