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[Bloomberg via Takashi Mochizuki] Sega has no intention to be acquired, for now. Feels Microsoft values Sega more than other platform owners.

Thick Thighs Save Lives

Thick Thighs Save Lives

Gold Member


Sega has strong relationships with platform owners from Sony Group Corp. and Nintendo Co. to Apple Inc. and Amazon.com Inc. But Microsoft values Sega more than other platform operators, Utsumi said. The pair announced they will consider forming a strategic alliance in 2021 to support Sega’s initiative of developing big-budget games.

“We are very close with Microsoft and have a great relationship with its management team,” he said. “Microsoft particularly has a high regard for us. Xbox’s Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond are really serious about values that video game fans emphasize.”
Click to expand...

Archive dot org article: https://web.archive.org/save/https:...lk-of-microsoft-deal-in-favor-of-independence
 
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lh032

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
" Sega's Co-COO Utsumi appreciated Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond of Xbox as Sega feels Microsoft values Sega more than other platform owners."

Hmm....are they hinting Sony or Nintendo something here? lmao
 
Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
I think Microsoft values any 3rd party more than Sony or Nintendo would, simply because Sony and Nintendo don't need to value individual 3rd parties as much. First their first party are more mature than Microsoft's and in the case of Sony they have partnerships that are pretty widespread.

If I have 100 customers and another person has 10 customers, can I value my customers as much as the person with 10? It's just logical.

And essentially what Sega is saying is they get more favorable deals from Microsoft than they do Nintendo and Sony.

Sony is at the point in the cycle where they don't really need to pay for exclusives, the userbase is large enough now that publishers now need PlayStation more than PlayStation needs the publishers (individually).

If Persona 6 doesn't come out on PS5 who does that impact more Sega or Sony? How many copies of Persona 6 will sell exclusively on Xbox Series?

Kotick for example was desperate to get another deal with Sony in place because he knows if this deal doesn't go through, he's paying Sony 30 percent on royalties and no marketing deal, but Sony doesn't need a marketing deal on CoD going forward and the additional revenue gained by charging 30 percent rather than 20 or 25 percent is massive.

Let's say CoD 2024 sells 10 million copies at 70 dollars, that's 700 million dollars. 5 percent equates to 35 million dollars. So you're talking about 35-70 million dollars in one year on one title... Over the course of two years, you're looking at funding major AAA games off of the increased royalties on ONE franchise and it costs Sony NOTHING to do it.
 
Nankatsu

Nankatsu

Gold Member
It won't happen.

In an attempt to overtake Sony, MS just about over values anyone in order to buy them.

Happy Adam Scott GIF by Sky
 
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Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
Gojiira said:
Japanese Government, there’s literally laws that prevent Japanese companies from being bought out by foreign investors. Its not impossible, but would Japan allow such a iconic company to be bought out by a American company? Not likely at all.
Click to expand...

There is the idea that Sega Sammy could sell the Sega games division as opposed to outright selling the overall company and that would likely get around much of the regulation there.
 
A

alphachino

Member
Gojiira said:
Japanese Government, there’s literally laws that prevent Japanese companies from being bought out by foreign investors. Its not impossible, but would Japan allow such a iconic company to be bought out by a American company? Not likely at all.
Click to expand...
I don't think that law exists to be honest. I think it's the case that a Japanese buyer would get preference in an acquisition and a Japanese buyer would just need to match the offer of a foreign buyer. You're conflating law with conjecture with your "not impossible" statement. As a thought experiment, what if SEGA were losing gobs of money and about the go bankrupt and there were no Japanese suitors? Of course they'd be happy for anyone (American or not) to come in to revive the dying company.
 
Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
Ask yourselves is Sony going to pay full freight to get Persona 3, 4, and 5R on PS5 when most of their userbase has already bought these titles multiple times already in some cases?

No, but Microsoft will. The question for Microsoft and Sega is how long will that partnership work if Persona isn't pushing the needle on GamePass?
 
Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
alphachino said:
I don't think that law exists to be honest. I think it's the case that a Japanese buyer would get preference in an acquisition and a Japanese buyer would just need to match the offer of a foreign buyer. You're conflating law with conjecture with your "not impossible" statement. As a thought experiment, what if SEGA were losing gobs of money and about the go bankrupt and there were no Japanese suitors? Of course they'd be happy for anyone (American or not) to come in to revive the dying company.
Click to expand...

You don't think the law exists?

Is that how laws work? Can I speed and tell a cop I don't think there are speed limits?

Like this is well documented, but apparently it's common place in public discourse to be ignorant of something and just come up with your own thoughts as if they're just as valid as actual facts...

It's alarming and needs to be called out whenever possible.
 
A

alphachino

Member
Mibu no ookami said:
You don't think the law exists?

Is that how laws work? Can I speed and tell a cop I don't think there are speed limits?

Like this is well documented, but apparently it's common place in public discourse to be ignorant of something and just come up with your own thoughts as if they're just as valid as actual facts...

It's alarming and needs to be called out whenever possible.
Click to expand...
I'm saying I literally don't think the law exists, no matter how many times it gets bandied around these parts. If such a law exists, then why would MS even have the "thought experiments" of purchasing SEGA, SE or Nintendo, if it's such an impossibility? Sharp (Japanese) were purchased by Foxconn (Chinese) in 2016... how did that happen if the law exists?

Edit: on the contrary, ARM Holdings (UK) were purchased by Softbank (Japanese) in 2016. How is it that Japanese companies can purchase foreign companies, but not the other way-round? Then Nvidia (US) tried purchasing ARM in 2022, we know how that worked out, but where was this mythical "no foreigners" rules then? Sure, you might think SEGA has some special place in Japanese culture, but it's just that... "you think". There is no basis in reality. I'd love to proven wrong though with some concrete examples.

Editedit: There are rumours of Apple purchasing Sony if they want to get into the console space. Why are these rumours so openly discussed in other forums if such a "no foreigner" rule exists? It really feels like an echo chamber in here sometimes and far too much "I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert)" copypasta in here with usernames like Godjiira for fucks sake.
 
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Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
alphachino said:
I'm saying I literally don't think the law exists, no matter how many times it gets bandied around these parts. If such a law exists, then why would MS even have the "thought experiments" of purchasing SEGA, SE or Nintendo, if it's such an impossibility? Sharp (Japanese) were purchased by Foxconn (Chinese) in 2016... how did that happen if the law exists?

Edit: on the contrary, ARM Holdings (UK) were purchased by Softbank (Japanese) in 2016. How is it that Japanese companies can purchase foreign companies, but not the other way-round? Then Nvidia (US) tried purchasing ARM in 2022, we know how that worked out, but where was this mythical "no foreigners" rules then? Sure, you might think SEGA has some special place in Japanese culture, but it's just that... "you think". There is no basis in reality. I'd love to proven wrong though with some concrete examples.

Editedit: There are rumours of Apple purchasing Sony if they want to get into the console space. Why are these rumours so openly discussed in other forums if such a "no foreigner" rule exists? It really feels like an echo chamber in here sometimes and far too much "I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert)" copypasta in here with usernames like Godjiira for fucks sake.
Click to expand...
www.cnbc.com

Japan to limit foreign ownership of firms in its tech and telecom sectors

The new rule, effective Aug. 1, comes amid heightening pressure from the United States in dealing with cyber-security risks and technological transfers involving China.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

Sega is protected in Japan for holding IPs of interest (Sonic).
 
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A

alphachino

Member
Ar¢tos said:
www.cnbc.com

Japan to limit foreign ownership of firms in its tech and telecom sectors

The new rule, effective Aug. 1, comes amid heightening pressure from the United States in dealing with cyber-security risks and technological transfers involving China.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

Sega is protected in Japan for holding IPs of interest (Sonic).
Click to expand...
thanks. I guess the new rules brought up in that article are tangentially-related somehow, but nowhere does it mention anything about companies in the Multimedia and Electronic gaming sector. I fail to see how MS purchasing SEGA would be a "national security" risk
 
Gojiira

Gojiira

Member
alphachino said:
thanks. I guess the new rules brought up in that article are tangentially-related somehow, but nowhere does it mention anything about companies in the Multimedia and Electronic gaming sector. I fail to see how MS purchasing SEGA would be a "national security" risk
Click to expand...

www.pinsentmasons.com

Foreign direct investment in Japan

Japan has had a governmental foreign direct investment (FDI) screening system in place since 1949.
www.pinsentmasons.com www.pinsentmasons.com
This is a better page about the investment law. Software companies make up a large part of Japanese economy and thus are protected. As I said earlier, its not impossible for a foreign investor to purchase a Japanese company just highly unlikely.
 
A

alphachino

Member
Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
alphachino said:
oh really? That would be an interesting list to see.

Edit: found it: https://www.mof.go.jp/international_policy/gaitame_kawase/fdi/list.xlsx. SEGA Sammy Holdings are on the list under securities code 6460. Still though, I don't see how any of this affects the possibility of Microsoft purchasing SEGA whatsoever. Maybe it's some other list you're talking about
Click to expand...
There are 3 levels of classifications for companies in Japan. Someone once posted a full list in a thread. Sega is protected not because of security reasons but for having IPs valuable to the country whose ownership needs to remain in the country.
 
A

alphachino

Member
Gojiira said:
www.pinsentmasons.com

Foreign direct investment in Japan

Japan has had a governmental foreign direct investment (FDI) screening system in place since 1949.
www.pinsentmasons.com www.pinsentmasons.com
This is a better page about the investment law. Software companies make up a large part of Japanese economy and thus are protected. As I said earlier, its not impossible for a foreign investor to purchase a Japanese company just highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
It's not "not impossible", it's the opposite. It's highly probable that SEGA can be purchased and that is something I am highly against. I just don't want it hand-waved away like there is some kind of law preventing it from happening when actually there is no such law in place... and then suddenly SEGA and my beloved OutRun franchise are in the greasy mitts of the creative black hole that is Microsoft.

Don't get me wrong, I would love if such a law existed, but laws are malleable to a certain degree and an entity as large MS can probably get around any restrictions if they set that as their target.
 
Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
alphachino said:
I'm saying I literally don't think the law exists, no matter how many times it gets bandied around these parts. If such a law exists, then why would MS even have the "thought experiments" of purchasing SEGA, SE or Nintendo, if it's such an impossibility? Sharp (Japanese) were purchased by Foxconn (Chinese) in 2016... how did that happen if the law exists?

Edit: on the contrary, ARM Holdings (UK) were purchased by Softbank (Japanese) in 2016. How is it that Japanese companies can purchase foreign companies, but not the other way-round? Then Nvidia (US) tried purchasing ARM in 2022, we know how that worked out, but where was this mythical "no foreigners" rules then? Sure, you might think SEGA has some special place in Japanese culture, but it's just that... "you think". There is no basis in reality. I'd love to proven wrong though with some concrete examples.

Editedit: There are rumours of Apple purchasing Sony if they want to get into the console space. Why are these rumours so openly discussed in other forums if such a "no foreigner" rule exists? It really feels like an echo chamber in here sometimes and far too much "I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert)" copypasta in here with usernames like Godjiira for fucks sake.
Click to expand...

I'm going to guess that you're pretty young.

Do you think that the SMT team at Xbox has any special legal understanding of Japan more than the average poster in this forum. I'm going to tell you a surprise... They don't.

Why did Matt Booty write an e-mail tailor-made to end Microsoft's acquisition strategy when it came to international regulatory bodies? Because Matt Booty is just a person, no more or less intelligent by the position that he is in.

Has he searched the Japanese law before saying let's buy Sega or does he need the Microsoft legal team to advise him after the fact that it's not easily achievable?

Why would Microsoft engage in a M&A with a 3 billion dollar penalty clause only for them to ultimately lose that bid in the regulatory process? Aren't they super geniuses that could have foreseen regulatory hurdles?

I also enjoy how you cite a 2016 purchase of Sharp that predates the 2020 revision of the law in question or even emails that were generated prior to 2020.

Also it isn't to say that any company on the protected list CAN'T be purchased or invested in by foreign parties, but rather the Japanese government will place extra scrutiny and regulation on the purchase of these companies. Rather than putting your head in the sand you could I don't know... educate yourself?
 
A

alphachino

Member
Mibu no ookami said:
I'm going to guess that you're pretty young.

Do you think that the SMT team at Xbox has any special legal understanding of Japan more than the average poster in this forum. I'm going to tell you a surprise... They don't.

Why did Matt Booty write an e-mail tailor-made to end Microsoft's acquisition strategy when it came to international regulatory bodies? Because Matt Booty is just a person, no more or less intelligent by the position that he is in.

Has he searched the Japanese law before saying let's buy Sega or does he need the Microsoft legal team to advise him after the fact that it's not easily achievable?

Why would Microsoft engage in a M&A with a 3 billion dollar penalty clause only for them to ultimately lose that bid in the regulatory process? Aren't they super geniuses that could have foreseen regulatory hurdles?

I also enjoy how you cite a 2016 purchase of Sharp that predates the 2020 revision of the law in question or even emails that were generated prior to 2020.

Also it isn't to say that any company on the protected list CAN'T be purchased or invested in by foreign parties, but rather the Japanese government will place extra scrutiny and regulation on the purchase of these companies. Rather than putting your head in the sand you could I don't know... educate yourself?
Click to expand...
You're talking through your ass and you know it.
 
Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
alphachino said:
oh really? That would be an interesting list to see.

Edit: found it: https://www.mof.go.jp/international_policy/gaitame_kawase/fdi/list.xlsx. SEGA Sammy Holdings are on the list under securities code 6460. Still though, I don't see how any of this affects the possibility of Microsoft purchasing SEGA whatsoever. Maybe it's some other list you're talking about
Click to expand...

LOL, see you can't even read the list right.

The security code is just a distinction for the number the company appears on the nikkei. What matters more is the classification that appear on the far right with 3 being the highest level. It should be noted that Sega is a 2.
 
Gobjuduck

Gobjuduck

Banned
Ar¢tos said:
There are 3 levels of classifications for companies in Japan. Someone once posted a full list in a thread. Sega is protected not because of security reasons but for having IPs valuable to the country whose ownership needs to remain in the country.
Click to expand...
couldn't xbox just create a foreign subsidiary "Xbox Japan", where they can acquire Japanese publishers/studios. There is legal ways to fight legal hurdles.

Sega would just become xbox's japanese branch, which im sure they would love the financial security and connections of microsoft.
 
Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
Gobjuduck said:
couldn't xbox just create a foreign subsidiary "Xbox Japan", where they can acquire Japanese publishers/studios. There is legal ways to fight legal hurdles.

Sega would just become xbox's japanese branch, which im sure they would love the financial security and connections of microsoft.
Click to expand...
Governments aren't dumb. It would have to be a completely independent company from MS operating without any MS money.
 
Mibu no ookami

Mibu no ookami

Member
Gobjuduck said:
couldn't xbox just create a foreign subsidiary "Xbox Japan", where they can acquire Japanese publishers/studios. There is legal ways to fight legal hurdles.

Sega would just become xbox's japanese branch, which im sure they would love the financial security and connections of microsoft.
Click to expand...

I'm glad that you think Japan is so stupid that they wouldn't build a law preventing such an obvious workaround... the subsidiary would still be a company that isn't majority owned domestically.
 
drganon

drganon

Member
Gobjuduck said:
couldn't xbox just create a foreign subsidiary "Xbox Japan", where they can acquire Japanese publishers/studios. There is legal ways to fight legal hurdles.

Sega would just become xbox's japanese branch, which im sure they would love the financial security and connections of microsoft.
Click to expand...
You guys sure do love inventing retarded fantasies where Xbox gets to own everything.
 
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