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Audiophile GAF

Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
OZ9000 said:
My office is approx 2.3M x 3.4M
From the UK
For games and music.

In the living room I have these speakers:

MASS Surround Sound | Speaker System | Monitor Audio

High-performance five satellite speakers and a subwoofer make the Monitor Audio MASS a new standard in compact and elegant multi-channel audio home cinema.
www.monitoraudio.com www.monitoraudio.com

They sound great for movies and games. Crap for music though - the sound from the speakers just sounds tinny. However when I purchased them I had absolutely no idea about speakers etc. Got them because they reviewed well and looked nice.
Click to expand...
I don’t know the Euro market at all but I do know there are a lot of quality speaker manufacturers. I would honestly find a local shop where you can talk it out, try gear. Best case is if they let you audition at your place.
 
Reallink

Reallink

Member
hollams said:
I treated myself and bought an Anthem AVM90 and it's awesome. I've only owned Denon receivers for the last 15 years and this is a major step up which it should be since its 3 to 4 times the cost. Music is amazing, it's like the band is actually in my room, especially acoustic guitars. Last night I sat and listened to music for 3 hours and had a smile on my face the whole time.

It also made my Atmos setup come alive like never before as the separation between the channels is so much better which makes every sound cleaner and distinct. The bass is also tighter so I'm really impressed with their Arc Genesis calibration software which is much better than Audyssey.
Click to expand...

Audyssey requires a lot of manual measurements and adjustment, the automated system will pretty much always fail at aligning multiple subs and the crossover, introducing severe phase cancellation nulls in both instances. It also more or less requires the use of Dynamic EQ (which in practice produces a much more pleasing "target curve), and for the user to own the $20 app to turn off mid-range compensation. I would be very interested in seeing an qualitative comparison between manually tuned XT32, Dirac, and ARC all ran on the same room/system. Unfortunately no one has bothered to do it.

OZ9000 said:
My office is approx 2.3M x 3.4M
From the UK
For games and music.

In the living room I have these speakers:

MASS Surround Sound | Speaker System | Monitor Audio

High-performance five satellite speakers and a subwoofer make the Monitor Audio MASS a new standard in compact and elegant multi-channel audio home cinema.
www.monitoraudio.com www.monitoraudio.com

They sound great for movies and games. Crap for music though - the sound from the speakers just sounds tinny. However when I purchased them I had absolutely no idea about speakers etc. Got them because they reviewed well and looked nice.
Click to expand...

Wharfdales are really cheap for you guys, some of the Diamonds are excellent budget speakers. Q-acoustics are also much cheaper in the UK and quite good. I'd probably suggest sticking to 5.1. The upfiring Atmos speakers that bounce sound off the ceiling don't work well, and installing in-ceiling or height speakers typically isn't worth the cost/hassle/mess unless you've got a dedicated theater room or a new house under construction. Atmos is much more supplemental than transformative.
 
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O

OZ9000

Banned
Reallink said:
Audyssey requires a lot of manual measurements and adjustment, the automated system will pretty much always fail at aligning multiple subs and the crossover, introducing severe phase cancellation nulls in both instances. It also more or less requires the use of Dynamic EQ (which in practice produces a much more pleasing "target curve), and for the user to own the $20 app to turn off mid-range compensation. I would be very interested in seeing an qualitative comparison between manually tuned XT32, Dirac, and ARC all ran on the same room/system. Unfortunately no one has bothered to do it.



Wharfdales are really cheap for you guys, some of the Diamonds are excellent budget speakers. Q-acoustics are also much cheaper in the UK and quite good. I'd probably suggest sticking to 5.1. The upfiring Atmos speakers that bounce sound off the ceiling don't work well, and installing in-ceiling or height speakers typically isn't worth the cost/hassle/mess unless you've got a dedicated theater room or a new house under construction. Atmos is much more supplemental than transformative.
Click to expand...
I found a 5.1 set of Q Acoustic 2000 for a cheap price.

I can't find much info on the speakers on the internet but they reviewed well here:
www.whathifi.com

Home review

Best traditional package up to £1000, Awards 2010. Full-size thrills on an economy-sized budget
www.whathifi.com www.whathifi.com

Are these any good?

For Atmos, I was going to install a pair of Cambridge Audio Min12 on the ceiling (https://www.richersounds.com/camb-minx-min12-blk-sgl.html)
 
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Reallink

Reallink

Member
Reallink

Reallink

Member
OZ9000 said:
£240

Supposedly in mint condition.

Are these likely to be an upgrade over my Mass 5.1 system?
Click to expand...

Yeah for sure, they're much more capable than your current micro-satellite system. Good price if that includes everything. Why don't you use the mass satellites as your atmos speakers?
 
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ThatPolishGuy

ThatPolishGuy

Member
ThatPolishGuy said:
My friend uses KODA HARMONY K-2000B mk 1 + Yamaha A-S501 and its a nice set up. Maybe second hand setup like this would close up in $500. Dunno how cheap it is abroad.

K-2000B MKII is being selled in Poland new for like $160

Q1wrX95.jpg
kgDl0oU.jpg

They have BR at the back. It could play fairly nice at this price point 👌.

Please note that I know MK1 only from sound signature, and MK2 is a different loudspeaker. But MK1 do wonders for such a small size. Heard them and I was impressed.
Click to expand...

ThatPolishGuy said:
KODA HARMONY K-2000B mk 1 similar price point when they were new as new mk2, they are 10 years old model. My friend has those, if anyones wondering about build

Cbxp8Nn.jpg
svrCejM.jpg
8qGtlcx.jpg
JklXc7l.jpg
165ro4r.jpg
aoPE7Ql.jpg
knPODBW.jpg

Edit: Polipropylen (mk2 has kevlar) cone on bass unit, foil mpt capacitors on crossovers so all are within 5% tolerance of capacitance and will not dry out over the years, so it will always be within specs. EDIT: correction Taga Harmony is Polish distributor. Guangzhou KODA Electronics Co.,Ltd is full name of the maker or those loudspeakers.

Apparently price to quality ratio is insane. Dunno if they are making any serious money on those units. It's fairly low priced tbh.

And this is the one I always heard. And its a nice unit.

Yamaha A-S501 is also a nice unit, 9-10 years old so fairly new. Comparable to my vintage Yamaha A-960II. All Yamaha amplifiers have adjustable loudness feature. From what I googled you can buy used one for like $380-385. Your friend could squeeze it into $500 budget, I think.
Click to expand...


My friends mk1 - on Yamaha A-S501, no sub. Only 13cm mid-bass unit. No loundess, bass is maxed out on pots though.







They can go fairly low, as on this vid.



Fairly nice for a $160 monitor speakers. And at that size. It's kinda impressive. They have their limitations but man. Those are sure a nice surprise in a bunch of modern crap. I'm curious what mk2 can do. I dig their looks more.
 
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T

TheHighFlyingBirds

Member
OZ9000 said:
I found a 5.1 set of Q Acoustic 2000 for a cheap price.

I can't find much info on the speakers on the internet but they reviewed well here:
www.whathifi.com

Home review

Best traditional package up to £1000, Awards 2010. Full-size thrills on an economy-sized budget
www.whathifi.com www.whathifi.com

Are these any good?

For Atmos, I was going to install a pair of Cambridge Audio Min12 on the ceiling (https://www.richersounds.com/camb-minx-min12-blk-sgl.html)
Click to expand...
Qacoustics are good for their price. I had some 3020s, 3050s and 3090c in my setup before upgrading to kef R series (they are now in storage till I decide what to do with them).

The 2000 series is old though, 3000 and the updated 3000i are newer. You can get the 3000 series pretty cheap. The subs aren't great and easily bettered by subs from BK electronics. Also now pretty cheap are the concept 20, which have a devout following and very good reviews.

If you dont mind second hand (get more for money), have a look on Avforum (its UK based) as it has a classified section and a few 3000 sets have been for sale recently.
 
O

OZ9000

Banned
TheHighFlyingBirds said:
Qacoustics are good for their price. I had some 3020s, 3050s and 3090c in my setup before upgrading to kef R series (they are now in storage till I decide what to do with them).

The 2000 series is old though, 3000 and the updated 3000i are newer. You can get the 3000 series pretty cheap. The subs aren't great and easily bettered by subs from BK electronics. Also now pretty cheap are the concept 20, which have a devout following and very good reviews.

If you dont mind second hand (get more for money), have a look on Avforum (its UK based) as it has a classified section and a few 3000 sets have been for sale recently.
Click to expand...
How are the 3000 series? I decided to hold off against the 2000 series after seeing thed 3000 aren't too pricey on Richersounds. Do the 3020s and 3090c have good bass?
 
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T

TheHighFlyingBirds

Member
OZ9000 said:
How are the 3000 series? I decided to hold off against the 2000 series after seeing they aren't too pricey on Richersounds. Do the 3020s and 3090c have good bass?
Click to expand...
They are good for their price, and are an easy laid back sound. Not the best for bass, as they are quite small, which is why I later went for some 3050s, with the intent of using the 3020s as rears. I suppose it depends on how big your room is and how much bass you want. The 3030i has more bass than the 3020s but they are quite a bit bigger and more expensive.

Other bookshelf speakers to look at are the monitor audio bronze range, kef q150 and the dali oberon. I know the MA are ok for bass, as a mate has the bronze 50, dalis are normally a bit more bright, but not heard the oberons.

If you were looking at atmos then the MA's and Kefs would be my choice, just because they do atmos modules that match the range so they will not look odd if sat on the other speakers (although matching is not important from a sound perspective).

For a 5.1 system, dont be pressured into getting the sub from the speaker manufacturer, you can get far better for your money from the likes of BK (they have an ebay page (look for seller colosussxb) which sells them cheaper as grade b, my xxls400 was grade b, but never been able to find any reason why it was classed as that), monoprice or SVS.

Have you got any hifi shops local to you? If so I would arrange for a demo of any speakers you want to hear to see how they sound.
 
O

OZ9000

Banned
TheHighFlyingBirds said:
They are good for their price, and are an easy laid back sound. Not the best for bass, as they are quite small, which is why I later went for some 3050s, with the intent of using the 3020s as rears. I suppose it depends on how big your room is and how much bass you want. The 3030i has more bass than the 3020s but they are quite a bit bigger and more expensive.

Other bookshelf speakers to look at are the monitor audio bronze range, kef q150 and the dali oberon. I know the MA are ok for bass, as a mate has the bronze 50, dalis are normally a bit more bright, but not heard the oberons.

If you were looking at atmos then the MA's and Kefs would be my choice, just because they do atmos modules that match the range so they will not look odd if sat on the other speakers (although matching is not important from a sound perspective).

For a 5.1 system, dont be pressured into getting the sub from the speaker manufacturer, you can get far better for your money from the likes of BK (they have an ebay page (look for seller colosussxb) which sells them cheaper as grade b, my xxls400 was grade b, but never been able to find any reason why it was classed as that), monoprice or SVS.

Have you got any hifi shops local to you? If so I would arrange for a demo of any speakers you want to hear to see how they sound.
Click to expand...
I'll be putting the speakers in my office. Primary use is for music and games. The 3000 series is probably the largest I could go for. However the KEF Q150 are alternatives.
 
O

OZ9000

Banned
I'm looking to get some cheap atmos speakers for my office. I'm deciding between the two:
www.av.com

Fisual IC65 Installation Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com

Fisual IC65 Installation Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com
www.av.com www.av.com
www.av.com

Q Acoustics Q Install Qi65CB Background In-Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com

Q Acoustics Q Install Qi65CB Background In-Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com
www.av.com www.av.com

From a technical perspective, what is the better speaker? I appreciate most of you will be unfamiliar with these UK brands but I'd be grateful if someone could advise! Thanks.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
OZ9000 said:
I'm looking to get some cheap atmos speakers for my office. I'm deciding between the two:
www.av.com

Fisual IC65 Installation Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com

Fisual IC65 Installation Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com
www.av.com www.av.com
www.av.com

Q Acoustics Q Install Qi65CB Background In-Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com

Q Acoustics Q Install Qi65CB Background In-Ceiling Speaker (Single) at AV.com
www.av.com www.av.com

From a technical perspective, what is the better speaker? I appreciate most of you will be unfamiliar with these UK brands but I'd be grateful if someone could advise! Thanks.
Click to expand...
I am familiar with QAcoustics so I would probably lean that way as I know they are well regarded. I wish I had some actual advice. :p

I am curious how everything sounds when you are done. I never had interest in anything more than a 2.1 setup but after Apple Music added Spatial Audio/Atmos, I am more interested. It sounds incredible on my AirPod Max.
 
O

OZ9000

Banned
Maiden Voyage said:
I am familiar with QAcoustics so I would probably lean that way as I know they are well regarded. I wish I had some actual advice. :p

I am curious how everything sounds when you are done. I never had interest in anything more than a 2.1 setup but after Apple Music added Spatial Audio/Atmos, I am more interested. It sounds incredible on my AirPod Max.
Click to expand...
Is the Fisual better specs wise because it is able to reach lower frequencies? Does that imply better bass?
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
OZ9000 said:
Is the Fisual better specs wise because it is able to reach lower frequencies? Does that imply better bass?
Click to expand...

I don't have any real direct experience with Atmos so it's a bit hard for me to say. Both seem like they would work well.

I assume you have a subwoofer or two in your setup so I wouldn't worry too much about the lower frequency range. I could see the cross over (which frequency the amp pushes to sub vs speakers) being an issue if your ceiling speakers are radically different than your surrounds & center.

On the Fisual, 45hz crossover is pretty normal for like Left/Right channel speakers. My current desktop speakers (Kef Q150) have a 51Hz response as the min. It works well enough without a subwoofer but I still want to get one because good bass is magical.

The QAucoustics look like 75Hz is the lower side. I am not sure if this is typical in an Atmosphere set-up TBH. The description mentions crossover not being a problem so I am honestly unsure.

Mounting depth on the QAcoustics is much slimmer, which makes me think that is what's driving the 2x cost, not necessarily the sound quality you can expect.

All that said, making a very blind decision I would go for the Fisual if mount depth is no issue. If it is, the Acoustic will be the better choice. AVForums mention going as high as 90-110Hz for their crossover point maybe it really is just a matter of the mounting depth?
 
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T

TheHighFlyingBirds

Member
Maiden Voyage said:
I could see the cross over (which frequency the amp pushes to sub vs speakers) being an issue if your ceiling speakers are radically different than your surrounds & center.
Click to expand...
It would depend on their amps functionality. Some amps allow a crossover to be set for individual speakers, which addresses this issue. Also atmos (and surrounds) tracks dont usually have much bass.
 
NeoIkaruGAF

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Hey audio-GAF, help a fellow music listener.

I use my old Macbook Air as source, just for the ease of it.
I use VLC as a music player, since Apple's Music app has a bad interface and sounds even worse.
A few weeks ago, VLC asked me to update. I did. And since then, when playing music, I've been experiencing a lot of hiccups. Before the update, I never had a problem. Not a pop, not a skip. Never. After the update, music playing has been so choppy, it's basically impossible to get through a single track without experiencing some skips. It's like playing a scratched CD on a bumpy road.

I deleted VLC and did a fresh install, and while this did alleviate the problem, it hasn't solved it completely. Audio reproduction is smoother, but nowhere near 100% as before.
Googling the problem didn't help, because VLC troubleshooting is usually about video, not audio.
And I haven't found another simple, reliable, good-sounding music app for Mac that is also completely free.
I was quite happy with VLC, as spartan as it is, so I'd happily keep using it. But I ask you, is there a solution to my problem? Is there an older version of VLC I should go back to that is more reliable, maybe?

Thanks for any suggestions.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
NeoIkaruGAF said:
Hey audio-GAF, help a fellow music listener.

I use my old Macbook Air as source, just for the ease of it.
I use VLC as a music player, since Apple's Music app has a bad interface and sounds even worse.
A few weeks ago, VLC asked me to update. I did. And since then, when playing music, I've been experiencing a lot of hiccups. Before the update, I never had a problem. Not a pop, not a skip. Never. After the update, music playing has been so choppy, it's basically impossible to get through a single track without experiencing some skips. It's like playing a scratched CD on a bumpy road.

I deleted VLC and did a fresh install, and while this did alleviate the problem, it hasn't solved it completely. Audio reproduction is smoother, but nowhere near 100% as before.
Googling the problem didn't help, because VLC troubleshooting is usually about video, not audio.
And I haven't found another simple, reliable, good-sounding music app for Mac that is also completely free.
I was quite happy with VLC, as spartan as it is, so I'd happily keep using it. But I ask you, is there a solution to my problem? Is there an older version of VLC I should go back to that is more reliable, maybe?

Thanks for any suggestions.
Click to expand...
Yeah, roll back to the version version of VLC if you can. I was using Foobar for over a decade but it sounds like development might be dead.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
AJUMP23 said:
I think I read this is $800. And while it is cool it is not something anyone really needs. You can get lossless audio on your phone.
Click to expand...
Free market innit?

The analog output on your phones jack might not be a good impedance rating for the cans you own. There may be issues with the DAC. Etc.

There is absolutely a market for this but that market is not 99% of consumers. No reason to limit options for those who may want it.
 
AJUMP23

AJUMP23

Gold Member
Maiden Voyage said:
Free market innit?

The analog output on your phones jack might not be a good impedance rating for the cans you own. There may be issues with the DAC. Etc.

There is absolutely a market for this but that market is not 99% of consumers. No reason to limit options for those who may want it.
Click to expand...
It is cool to see it come, and I would get one for $200, but not $800. If you get one I would like to borrow it. I think at $800 it is a very hard sell. Most people that listen to music have no idea the music they listen to is of very low quality.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
AJUMP23 said:
It is cool to see it come, and I would get one for $200, but not $800. If you get one I would like to borrow it. I think at $800 it is a very hard sell. Most people that listen to music have no idea the music they listen to is of very low quality.
Click to expand...
For sure. But this is a community thread for people who do care about music reproduction quality. It's like expensive watches. Does a $20 Walmart watch tell you the time? Yes. But people who are into the craftmanship and design of high end watches are going to pursue those and should be able to. Can I buy an Ikea bed frame? Yes. But I would much rather find a skilled woodworker who can build me one. Same for fountain pens and other commodities.

I personally don't own a DAP because I never really do critical listening on the go. My desk set-up and living room are where I do the vast majority of my listening so that's where I put my money. If I ever pick up work travel like I used to, I would absolutely look into a DAP like the Walkman or perhaps something from FiiO or A&K. If $800 is too much, there are other, cheaper options on the market. And barring that, your phone can do the trick for some use cases.
 
Con-Z-epT

Con-Z-epT

Live from NeoGAF, it's Friday Night!
Maiden Voyage said:
I'm not in the market for a DAP but this looks nice.
Click to expand...


So sexy, however i think the NW-WM1AM2 and the NW-WM1ZM2 are even more appealing.

Maiden Voyage said:
I personally don't own a DAP because I never really do critical listening on the go. My desk set-up and living room are where I do the vast majority of my listening so that's where I put my money. If I ever pick up work travel like I used to, I would absolutely look into a DAP like the Walkman or perhaps something from FiiO or A&K. If $800 is too much, there are other, cheaper options on the market. And barring that, your phone can do the trick for some use cases.
Click to expand...

Between the age of 12 and 25 i couldn't imagine a life without a portable audio player but nowadays there is rarely an occasion where i need this anymore. Just as you said for any real pleasurable audio session i'm always at home with a proper setup. I miss those days with portable tape, disc or mp3 players.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
AJUMP23 said:
the weirder the audio gear looks the more expensive it is too.
Click to expand...
No joke:
us.kef.com

MUON

A triumph of form marrying function, MUON is perhaps the most extraordinary loudspeaker ever conceived. MUON is the result of KEF engineering prowess combining with world-class industrial design by Ross Lovegrove. The Muon is limited to an edition of 100 pair. ENQUIRY WHERE TO BUY
us.kef.com us.kef.com
 
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