AP just reported that no jobs has been lost as a result of Seattle's minimum wage increase to $15 per hour: https://apnews.com/91eecc75fe824fb8...:-Study:-Seattle-minimum-wage-hasn't-cut-jobs
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AP: Seattle's $15 per hour minimum wage law hasnt cut jobs
- Thread starter KSweeley
- Start date
.Detective.
Member
So the cost of avocado toast won't get more expensive as a result of higher minimum wage?
Bornstellar
Member
It has however (anecdotally) resulted in higher prices across the board.
In what specifically? Genuinely interested.
buttery fistful
Member
like what, made a hamburger 19 cents more expensive?
BobTheFork
Member
THIS is the question. It's not just about the job itself.
The issue is less hours equaling the same payroll totals at the higher pay.
It happens in food service all the time. You don't lose your job, you just work 5 less hours a week.
The last time the base rate for servers was upped, the hours per person went down a week later.
Any company with a thin profit margin doesn't magically have extra money in payroll budget just because they have to pay more.
Either they lose money of make it up on payroll.
What I want to see is a breakdown or how much money people in these jobs make over the next year compared to before and how profit was effected and how in turn that effect prices
i mean, if i can earn the same working half the time i used to, isnt that good also?
Yep and even if that were the case, more money in the economy will lead to more business so they'll end up understaffed
John Rabbit
Banned
This entirely misses the point of raising the minimum wage.
If you can't afford rent on $7.50/hr at 40 hours a week, making $15/hr at 20 hours a week doesn't change that.
Exactly. Maybe the expected response is, "Well, now you have the time to work a second job"?
Edit: Yup, called it lol
Sure it does, you now have 20 free earning hours you didn't have before.
Not necessarily as 5 less hours could result in you falling under eligibility threshold for insurance and things like that.
Plus, while you do get more time off, this would not result in incraesed pay (the intent) without you getting a second job which can be stressful as far as juggling two schedules.
It would be helpful to know if people have seen increased pay or if pay remained static.
will companies even cut hours? someone gotta cover the shift right?
goldenpp72
Member
Well I mean, i'd probably try to find a second job then if that was the case, definitely preferable still.
uncelestial
Member
What a horrible shame that would be. The same pay, for less work.
Phrozenflame500
Member
I'm all for increasing minimum wage for urban high-cost of living places like Seattle, I'm just iffy for a blanket federal minimum wage that might hurt lower-cost of living rural areas.
Thats why the study needs to answer that question. We don't know.
Its not that it's a shame, it's that we need to know if people are seeing earnings increases which is the intent of raising it. Do they end the year with same money or more? People who are poor as fuck don't necessarily want more free time.It doesn't hurt but sometimes you just wanna be less poor too.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Yeah those burgers don't flip themselves.
poppedcollar69
Member
Good thing that's not what's happening at all
Like a fucking restaurant can cut half of all it's labor and still actually operate, my god
John Rabbit
Banned
The first post you quoted literally states that the article doesn't answer the criticism of whether or not hours were reduced. If hours were reduced, then it's not working.
It's one thing to say "nobody lost their job". It's another to say "except now they're all working half as much and therefore I'm not obligated to provide them benefits."
Can you find another source that speaks about reduction (or not) in hours? Again, that's what the article in the OP doesn't cover.
Theonik
Member
It does because I can then hypothetically get more time for a second job or college. Demand for labour doesn't go down because the wages are higher either.
Restaurants must be staffed to operate.
Less employees there at the same time. Understaffed.
I have a hard time believing all minimum wage workers in Seattle had their hours cut in half. The places still have to actually run.
Bornstellar
Member
Prices for food has gone up pretty significantly. That's the one I pay the most attention to since it's an everyday cost. An order I made at the beginning of the year that cost me 14.75 now costs me 16.80. That's not insignificant.
John Rabbit
Banned
Nobody said they were cut in half, it was a hypothetical explanation. Businesses run understaffed all the time. Salaried employees get tasked with work that an hourly employee might have normally performed. Hours are reduced and benefits are cut. It's more cost efficient to pay 2 people to work two halves of the same job if you don't have to offer them benefits.
Trust me, I support the idea of raising the minimum wage. I'm just trying to find out more beyond "nobody lost their job". It's not as simple as that.
And then you can buy a PS3!
Be that as it may, fuck yeah working twenty hours getting paid forty.
Realistically I don't believe businesses will be able to suddenly raise their payroll so what they'll do is cut hours but require the same amount of work to be done with less hours and justify it by saying "you're getting paid more".
Work done per dollar doesn't change unless it's affected by innovation.
If dollar per hour is forced to change then work per hour will change to compensate.
Oversimplifying though.
Work done per dollar doesn't change unless it's affected by innovation.
If dollar per hour is forced to change then work per hour will change to compensate.
Oversimplifying though.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Those hours have to be worked, they can't not have shifts filled. Ask anyone who has worked a shitty entry level job whether there was ever a time that staffing was at anything other than the bare minimum. How would it lead to cut hours?
Until you realize that you need to work 30+ to be eligible for your health benefits and no amount of 20 hour part time jobs are going to change that.
In spite of the answer being very obvious to you, do you not think that the study should verify that?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
If an employee being paid 15 an hour has their hours cut, then another employee will simply make up for it.......getting paid 15 an hour......so what's the point?
If working hours in general are made shorter, then the business is less productive, reduces its own ability to make money......no serious business will ever do that.
If working hours in general are made shorter, then the business is less productive, reduces its own ability to make money......no serious business will ever do that.
chicko1983
Member
If the wage increased decreased working hours by the same amount (in reality it wont), then people could potentially use that extra time for study or a second job.
what is wrong with that?
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Cut hours based purely on base pay aren't really an issue. If a business needs 40 hours of work at 15 bucks whether that's split between one or two employees it's sill 40 hours of work. Now what will happen is employers will pay more attention to overtime. So an associate could see less money if their overtime is cut due to the raising of the minimum wage. A lot of times its cheaper to pay someone overtime instead of hiring, training, and paying the benefits of a new associate. You raise the base pay and it may be cheaper to hire an extra person instead of paying overtime. Sure one more person gets a job but that person who used to get overtime is now taking home less money.
Sounds like we should be pushing for universal healthcare then
Nester99
Member
or the owner picks up the shift, does not pay him/herself and goes home to continue hating life.
Sounds like we should be pushing for universal healthcare then
Well of course. I'm not arguing against 15 dollar minimum wage. I'm arguing that the study or the article is leaving out important information.
Sounds like we should be pushing for universal healthcare then
Americans can't afford to pay for a universal health care with their current tax system. You guys pay way too little.
Theonik
Member
Ronald McDonald is not getting off his arse to flip burgers bruv.
Thank goodness I thought I was losing my mind. Someone that can see the bigger picture. This thread is hurting my brain.
1st Course
Member
Weird how this article is saying the exact opposite
http://nypost.com/2016/03/12/how-the-15-wage-is-already-killing-seattle-jobs/
http://nypost.com/2016/03/12/how-the-15-wage-is-already-killing-seattle-jobs/
Except someone has to cover the shift. If a place needs 12 workers a day to operate, then they need 12 workers a day. Your point ignores basic economics.
That article is over a year old, there's a lot more data out there now.
It was also based on a study by a conservative think tank.
Poor people with leisure time? That's how revolutions get started. Gotta keep them downtrodden.
That article and several others were based on bullshit correlation of unrelated data.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ge-dooming-seattle-restaurants-owners-say-no/
buttery fistful
Member
what we need to know is how much of that increase is directly attributed to this rate hike and how much is standard food inflation
Skellig Gra
Member
Something is missing here. If I'm understanding correctly. The $15 an hour wage isn't in effect until 2021 and they are very slowly raising the minimum wage until then. Seems way too early to draw any conclusions.
Employers don't have to pay insurance benefits for part time employees. They can hire twice as many employees and give them half the hours, which would be the same amount of hours they always had. Doing that they still come out ahead because nobody is eligible for insurance.
And in reality, now they have more leverage to ask more of their employees since they are paying more which can also lead to more selective hiring as well as being terminated easier for someone eager to make 15/hour.
julesodies
Member
Do people still tip in Seattle? With minimum wages seems like there's no need for it anymore.