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[Kagey K]

The difference with Destiny 2 is it actually sold well. When companies see their GaaS games bomb they will be more reluctant to invest in their initial development

Bit early to be calling that, no?

So far all we know about it’s sales are from UK and physical only, I think it’s better to take a bit of a wait and see before declaring it a bomb.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Probably have to adjust what we consider “BioWare standards”

 

[HagglesworthMD]

Bit early to be calling that, no?

So far all we know about it’s sales are from UK and physical only, I think it’s better to take a bit of a wait and see before declaring it a bomb.

That's true, though it's not looking good. Especially considering majority of PC users be playing with Origin Access who will be cancelling once they get bored of the game.. Though time will tell!

 

[Cranberrys]

You are totally right. I do think its important to remember that Bioware/EA are asking for money for this product though, and this is why criticism can be tough.

Angry Joe and Jim Sterling have been some of the hardest critics of the game, but they are also constructive I should point out. They offer insight as to how they think the game could be improved. This should be the norm, rather than "THIS SUCKS!"

It is to be expected though - this isn't a homework assignment, its a product they are being paid to create. Passionate fans who loved their old games want to be heard, and yelling and being harsh unfortunately is usually the easiest path.

I really don't like Jim Sterling or Angry Joe.

Anyway,

Look, EA bought BioWare and from then on, their games mostly became more mainstream. I loved ME2 for its story and because it was a pleasant game to play, it was flowing like an action game with RPG elements really and it's fine by me, it's my fave game of the saga, but has an RPG, it's less sophisticated than their previous games.

The first DA was a pure BioWare RPG but then the same thing happen with the other two. Multiplayer in ME3 and DA3, I'm pretty sure it's an EA move, not a desire from BioWare. It's logical, EA is no Sony, it's not a company that promotes creativity, it's not a company that will support for years projects with low commercial potential like The Last Guardian, it's not their DNA. Well, maybe it was back in the 80's but now they're in for the money, it's short term thinking. EA doesn't build a brand, if a game or a serie doesn't live up to their financial expectations, it goes straight to the trash bin. Look at how many games they scrap over the years. Look at the way they squeeze multiplayer everywhere.

As long as they are with EA, BioWare will never be the company it once was and you can shout at them all you want. In that context, their games are pretty good considering, they are enjoyable pieces of syfy or fantasy entertainment but, sure, if you look for a modern game with a classic western RPG vibe, BioWare is no longer in the picture and they will never produce a game like The Witcher 3 in their current configuration. Their games are narrative-action-with-light-RPG-elements.

There are other studios filling that niche (and that God for that) : Obsidian, Inxile, CD Projekt... I can't see EA giving money for making a game like Pillars Of Eternity. BioWare is in the mainstream business now, we can't have the same expectations. It's just the way it is. It's sad, sure, but for some reason I still love the vibe of their games and I made my peace with all that.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

there are tens of thousands of video games

why in the world would anyone spend time on anything less than great when there are thousands of great games by all measures>

 

[Raven117]

I haven’t played a ton of it, but I have enjoyed what I played. Sure there are some technical issues, but it’s in no way a dumpster fire of a game.

This is purely a dogpile on EA and BioWare.... while also ranking anthem against previous BioWare games. That’s not fair. Each game has to be viewed on its own.

Reviewers are ranking how disappointed they are that this is a game EA and BioWare released. They aren’t ranking the game itself.

Is it perfect? No. Is it decent. Yes.

 

[RavageX]

After the demo I decided the game wasn't for me. It is not an RPG.

 

[Hendrick's]

there are tens of thousands of video games

why in the world would anyone spend time on anything less than great when there are thousands of great games by all measures>

You can fly.

 

[Meifu]

I really don't like Jim Sterling or Angry Joe.

Anyway,

Look, EA bought BioWare and from then on, their games mostly became more mainstream. I loved ME2 for its story and because it was a pleasant game to play, it was flowing like an action game with RPG elements really and it's fine by me, it's my fave game of the saga, but has an RPG, it's less sophisticated than their previous games.

The first DA was a pure BioWare RPG but then the same thing happen with the other two. Multiplayer in ME3 and DA3, I'm pretty sure it's an EA move, not a desire from BioWare. It's logical, EA is no Sony, it's not a company that promotes creativity, it's not a company that will support for years projects with low commercial potential like The Last Guardian, it's not their DNA. Well, maybe it was back in the 80's but now they're in for the money, it's short term thinking. EA doesn't build a brand, if a game or a serie doesn't live up to their financial expectations, it goes straight to the trash bin. Look at how many games they scrap over the years. Look at the way they squeeze multiplayer everywhere.

As long as they are with EA, BioWare will never be the company it once was and you can shout at them all you want. In that context, their games are pretty good considering, they are enjoyable pieces of syfy or fantasy entertainment but, sure, if you look for a modern game with a classic western RPG vibe, BioWare is no longer in the picture and they will never produce a game like The Witcher 3 in their current configuration. Their games are narrative-action-with-light-RPG-elements.

There are other studios filling that niche (and that God for that) : Obsidian, Inxile, CD Projekt... I can't see EA giving money for making a game like Pillars Of Eternity. BioWare is in the mainstream business now, we can't have the same expectations. It's just the way it is. It's sad, sure, but for some reason I still love the vibe of their games and I made my peace with all that.

My dude I understand where you’re coming from but you do see that your working against your own argument?

You can’t have it both ways and say “well I like their vibe so screw the criticism it gets us nowhere” while at the same time dismissing well regarded critics by the gaming community at large. You kinda sound like someone who is rank and file at BioWare trying to defend years of work on the project.

Being a fan of BioWare is fine but you can’t sit there and tell people they are being too harsh on your fav studio when the criticisms are valid just because it spoils the experience a bit for you. It’s delusional to keep buying their games because you have nostalgia for the studio and are willing to put up with what EA has done to them. We speak with our wallets and our voices, we are not going to buy a game because a smidge of the BioWare vibe remains under all the crap. That’s what fanboys do, not real fans.

 

[SkinnerSw33t]

Anthem deserves a lot of criticism.

But the legitimate criticism often seems drowned out by mismanaged expectations.

 

[Cranberrys]

My dude I understand where you’re coming from but you do see that your working against your own argument?

You can’t have it both ways and say “well I like their vibe so screw the criticism it gets us nowhere” while at the same time dismissing well regarded critics by the gaming community at large. You kinda sound like someone who is rank and file at BioWare trying to defend years of work on the project.

Being a fan of BioWare is fine but you can’t sit there and tell people they are being too harsh on your fav studio when the criticisms are valid just because it spoils the experience a bit for you. It’s delusional to keep buying their games because you have nostalgia for the studio and are willing to put up with what EA has done to them. We speak with our wallets and our voices, we are not going to buy a game because a smidge of the BioWare vibe remains under all the crap. That’s what fanboys do, not real fans.

Yes, I may be contradictory in my remarks, but I never said that you had to buy these games if you don't like them. I buy them probably because I'm a bit of a fanboy, I concede that, but also because they make games that no one else does.

You can say what you want about Andromeda but what other studio in recent years has made a space opera of this caliber on Xbox? To my knowledge, there is none. I love science fiction, although I admit that Andromeda is more flawed than the previous episodes, except for the stellar combat, it's still a game that has no equivalent. It's easier to find a replacement to Dragon Age but Mass Effect is really unique, so in that regard, Andromeda does the job, at least for me it did.

There are genres that remain under-exploited in video games. Science fiction is often present but not in the way it is exposed in Mass Effect. So it's quite difficult to ignore Andromeda if you like the genre and it really would have to be a disaster but it's not the case here. It's a game that has some problems but it's not a failure.

 

[Meifu]

Yes, I may be contradictory in my remarks, but I never said that you had to buy these games if you don't like them. I buy them probably because I'm a bit of a fanboy, I concede that, but also because they make games that no one else does.

You can say what you want about Andromeda but what other studio in recent years has made a space opera of this caliber on Xbox? To my knowledge, there is none. I love science fiction, although I admit that Andromeda is more flawed than the previous episodes, except for the stellar combat, it's still a game that has no equivalent. It's easier to find a replacement to Dragon Age but Mass Effect is really unique, so in that regard, Andromeda does the job, at least for me it did.

There are genres that remain under-exploited in video games. Science fiction is often present but not in the way it is exposed in Mass Effect. So it's quite difficult to ignore Andromeda if you like the genre and it really would have to be a disaster but it's not the case here. It's a game that has some problems but it's not a failure.

True that and thank you for being able to have a non-inflammatory discussion about this. I think yes it’s true that big space rpgs are rare and difficult to make. I think the disappointment and ire comes from the fact that BioWare can’t do it with the quality that they executed in the past. Mass effect 3 was more action game than past titles, but it was hella fun! The issues with anthem don’t really revolve around it not being a multi layered rpg, but that what is there is quite cumbersome and boring at times :/. It can be fun sure, but can anyone argue it’s as fun as mass effect 1 - 3? I think that’s a hard sell.

 

[shark sandwich]

All the “b-b-b-but the game itself isn’t bad, the reviewers just had the wrong expectations!” comments are such a crock of shit.

Nobody was expecting a story-heavy single-player RPG. Nobody.

Go watch Angry Joe’s review. Does that sound like someone who was expecting a different type of game?

 

[Cranberrys]

True that and thank you for being able to have a non-inflammatory discussion about this. I think yes it’s true that big space rpgs are rare and difficult to make. I think the disappointment and ire comes from the fact that BioWare can’t do it with the quality that they executed in the past. Mass effect 3 was more action game than past titles, but it was hella fun! The issues with anthem don’t really revolve around it not being a multi layered rpg, but that what is there is quite cumbersome and boring at times :/. It can be fun sure, but can anyone argue it’s as fun as mass effect 1 - 3? I think that’s a hard sell.

I think we're in agreement. You're totally right when you say that Anthem or Andromeda are nowhere near the original Mass Effect and even if I'm still kinda fan of BioWare mostly because of the fond memories their past games gave me (the ME Trilogy is one of my gaming highlights), they can't live up to their legend but, in a way, it's true about many games nowadays.

You know, I just finished Leon's run in RE2 Remake and man, even if it's a modern and gorgeous game, it made me feel I was back in '98. It's a game with pure video games mechanics, a B movie feel narrative, it's all about level design, gameplay mechanics, etc. But most of all it's a game that is not ashamed of being a video game and it felt so good. I think with modern gaming we lost something in the process. Sure the games are drop dead gorgeous, easy to handle, smooth to play and you have a good time while playing them but then, when you are finished, you forget all about them and move on to the next one.

It's the same with BioWare now. Mass Effect 1 wasn't a perfect game either if you remember it correctly : the combat was clumsy (by far the worst in the saga), the planet exploration was tedious at times, it had technical issues (at least on 360), etc. But the game had a soul and you didn't gave a shit about its flaws, it blew your mind like the original RE2.

I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old but, yeah, you are right. I think I'm just resigned now and I stopped having any expectations from BioWare. I just play their games and tell myself : "well, it's not so bad" but, sure, when I look at myself back in december 2007, the very firt time I played Mass Effect and I had litterally goose bumps on my arms during the opening cinematic maybe I sold myself cheap and I should expect more.

 

[SkinnerSw33t]

All the “b-b-b-but the game itself isn’t bad, the reviewers just had the wrong expectations!” comments are such a crock of shit.

C'mon. The OP is predicated on that very thing.

 

[Danjin44]

You know, I just finished Leon's run in RE2 Remake and man, even if it's a modern and gorgeous game, it made me feel I was back in '98. It's a game with pure video games mechanics, a B movie feel narrative, it's all about level design, gameplay mechanics, etc. But most of all it's a game that is not ashamed of being a video game and it felt so good. I think with modern gaming we lost something in the process. Sure the games are drop dead gorgeous, easy to handle, smooth to play and you have a good time while playing them but then, when you are finished, you forget all about them and move on to the next one.

100% agree with you. This exactly how I felt about both RE2Remake and DQXI, they both can be immersive but at same time they felt very "gamey" which made game actually really fun to play. In my opinion this what is missing just not in BioWare but also in most recent western games. Their pursue in "grounded" and "realism"made their game less fun and less engaging, to them "immersion" is more important than having fun gameplay.

 

[wzy]

What fucking universe am I living in where the phrase "BioWare standards" can even exist?

 

[shark sandwich]

C'mon. The OP is predicated on that very thing.

Saying “this game is bad by BioWare standards” is not the same thing as saying “reviewers graded it more harshly because their expectations were too high”