Support NeoGAF

[BennyBlanco]

I’ve been slowly playing through Mass Effect Legendary Edition and it got me thinking about the state of the industry and the sheer productiveness of Bioware back then.

Started off the gen with Mass Effect in 2007. Kicks off major IP with a banger. Bringing the choice and consequence from their CRPG past to a fully fleshed out space opera with great characters and an interesting world.

1 year later in 2008 they drop a Sonic RPG for Sega on the DS.

1 year after this in 2009 they drop Dragon Age Origins. Another big original IP kicked off with a great game. Leaning on their CRPG roots again they went to a fantasy setting and more tactical combat.

3 MONTHS after this they drop Mass Effect 2. A stone cold classic and one of the very best games of that gen.

1 year after this in 2011 they drop Dragon Age 2. I really liked this game but it was definitely divisive.

Also in 2011 they release Star Wars TOR from Bioware Austin. Their first and only foray in MMOs. Rough launch but find it’s audience eventually.

1 year later in 2012 they drop Mass Effect 3. Wrapping up their trilogy and ending Shepard’s story.

Then in 2014 they drop Dragon Age Inquisition as a crossgen game finishing up their other huge trilogy and moving onto new consoles.

During this 7 year stretch they also dropped multiple phone games and browser games.

That is 2 massive trilogies and 2 big time IPs that have since been squandered. They certainly had their highs and lows but the rate they were cranking out games was insane and some of them are all time greats. In 2012 the founders left and everything started to go to shit. The entirety of last gen for consisted of Anthem and Mass Effect Andromeda. 2 stinkers one of which damaged their prized IP badly.

Even 1 big trilogy per gen seems impossible with the pace games get made now. That money would be spent chasing GaaS which is what Bioware themselves did the last time we saw them. It’s kind of sad. Thanks for attending my TED talk.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

Only Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 were good.

Everything else was hot garbage

 

[Del_X]

I really miss the cadence of AAA releases during that gen up until like 2011.

 

[rofif]

Everyones run on 360 and ps3 was amazing.
Whole gears trilogy
Whole uncharted trilogy
gta iv and rdr and gta 5
2 souls games
Oblivion, Fallout3, New Vegas, Skyrim,
4 fucking best ever Saints Row Games
3 Uncharted games + tlou.

Games too 2 years to develop... max 3 and were always groundbreaking good looking. Where did it go wrong

 

[SEGA_2012]

Yeah, i hate modern game industry. Please bring back the best era, the 360/PSTRIPLE/Wii/DS days . So many Masterpieces at that time.

 

[manfestival]

I remember the feeling I got playing Mass Effect 1 for the first time.
Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games of all time. Part of me feels that I won't ever get that same experience again.
Dragon Age Origins was a blast. Really enjoyed that game too. Though it did feel a little generic. I always enjoy that kind of rpg when it has quality behind it. Dragon Age 2 was a huge disappointment though. I completed the title but.... it felt like a waste of time.

 

[Zheph]

Bioware was at its best with Baldur's Gate 2 but still they had a crazy run with ME/DA

 

[The Cockatrice]

What do you mean modern gaming sucks? Dont you love:

MICROTRANSACTIONS!
70EURO GAMES THAT ARE OF LOWER OR SAME QUALITY AS BEFORE!
MANDATORY COOP!
EVERYTHING MUST HAVE LOOT!
RANDOM USELESS RPG STATS STAPLED ON EVERY GENRE! LEVEL UP THAT 1% DAMAGE INCREASE!
STUTTERS!
AND SO MUCH MORE!

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

For a while there it almost looked like EA wouldn’t strangle the life out of them. What a sad fate for one of the world’s best developers.

 

[diffusionx]

Bioware's run started in 1998 on PC where they helped revitalize the CRPG and then built the technology behind some of the best ones ever and made one of the best ones ever in Baldur's Gate 2. Then they brought the genre to console with KOTOR which is one of the best licensed games ever, and also proved they werent just a RPG shop with MDK2. Neverwinter Nights was kind of a weird game and a disappointment for some but people are *still* making modules with it today. Jade Empire is also, I think, underrated today but was a really good game. Then they transitioned to 360, got bought out, got too big, people who built the company left, unable to retain the same high levels of quality, now just complete garbage, same lifecycle as so many. I'm surprised EA is still wasting money on them.

 

[LadyBunny]

We're trying to be different, bring back some of what we as gamers feel is missing. The "generic" feel of many of today's games is due to so many small game dev companies being bought by the massive corporations and then laying off so many of the talented individuals who bled, sweat and cried their hearts into the creation of something awesome! We have heard the frustrations, the demands, the cries for what made a game great and have started this company to bring you the games, the stories, the action, the connection, the style, the experience you deserve. We hope you will enjoy our games and look forward to your feedback to help us improve your gaming enjoyment.

 

[Meicyn]

Nostalgia is a funny thing. Meanwhile, most members of this forum would be shitting on Mass Effect because of the technical issues and would have passed on playing it. At launch on the Xbox 360, the game‘s framerate frequently dropped into the low teens, stuttered all the time, and had massive texture pop-in issues because you couldn’t install games to the hard drive yet. Lots of bugs.

Dragon Age Origins had DLC awkwardly advertised to you at camp in-game. Lot of PC gamers at the time hated on it, saying it was a massive downgrade from their previous works, and that it was dumbed down for the masses, often citing the trailer with Marilyn Manson’s “This is the New Shit” playing in the background as evidence of Bioware’s downfall.

 

[Wastelander92]

I miss when Bethesda RPGs only took 2-3 years to make.

 

[SABRE220]

I’ve been slowly playing through Mass Effect Legendary Edition and it got me thinking about the state of the industry and the sheer productiveness of Bioware back then.

Started off the gen with Mass Effect in 2007. Kicks off major IP with a banger. Bringing the choice and consequence from their CRPG past to a fully fleshed out space opera with great characters and an interesting world.

1 year later in 2008 they drop a Sonic RPG for Sega on the DS.

1 year after this in 2009 they drop Dragon Age Origins. Another big original IP kicked off with a great game. Leaning on their CRPG roots again they went to a fantasy setting and more tactical combat.

3 MONTHS after this they drop Mass Effect 2. A stone cold classic and one of the very best games of that gen.

1 year after this in 2011 they drop Dragon Age 2. I really liked this game but it was definitely divisive.

Also in 2011 they release Star Wars TOR from Bioware Austin. Their first and only foray in MMOs. Rough launch but find it’s audience eventually.

1 year later in 2012 they drop Mass Effect 3. Wrapping up their trilogy and ending Shepard’s story.

Then in 2014 they drop Dragon Age Inquisition as a crossgen game finishing up their other huge trilogy and moving onto new consoles.

During this 7 year stretch they also dropped multiple phone games and browser games.

That is 2 massive trilogies and 2 big time IPs that have since been squandered. They certainly had their highs and lows but the rate they were cranking out games was insane and some of them are all time greats. In 2012 the founders left and everything started to go to shit. The entirety of last gen for consisted of Anthem and Mass Effect Andromeda. 2 stinkers one of which damaged their prized IP badly.

Even 1 big trilogy per gen seems impossible with the pace games get made now. That money would be spent chasing GaaS which is what Bioware themselves did the last time we saw them. It’s kind of sad. Thanks for attending my TED talk.

Watching the fall of BioWare has been heartbreaking to say the least, you could literally see the quality of their games drain as the talent left. They were simply amazing in their prime, sadly I have no confidence in them delivering games with the quality like mass effect 1 and dragon age origins anymore.

 

[MiguelItUp]

No kidding. Bioware was doing some amazing work there for a long while. I feel like the 360/PS3 era in general was pretty nuts. In hindsight, it totally overpowered the PS4/XB1 era as well. Of course it overpowering the current is no question.

 

[Porticus]

Weird, I remember most of the people shitting on ME2 because it became a GoW clone.

 

[Meicyn]

Weird, I remember most of the people shitting on ME2 because it became a GoW clone.

I remember a chunk of gamers complaining about Bioware abandoning their turn-based gameplay roots with Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 had tons of technical issues, had “dumbed down action gameplay”, went all-in on DLC instead of being a “complete game”, and so on.

Gamers have goldfish memory.

 

[Soltype]

Only Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 were good.

Everything else was hot garbage

Something definitely changed in the company after DAO was released.Their products started having a different flavor.

I remember a chunk of gamers complaining about Bioware abandoning their turn-based gameplay roots with Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 had tons of technical issues, had “dumbed down action gameplay”, went all-in on DLC instead of being a “complete game”, and so on.

Gamers have goldfish memory.

My problem with ME2 was they threw the baby out with the bath water.The first game needed refinement, they took the easy route and made everything too simple. The game was also aesthetically simplified, they bathed everything in shadows and called it a day.

 

[Adam_802]

7th gen still best.

 

[AJUMP23]

Something definitely changed in the company after DAO was released.Their products started having a different flavor.

They were bought by EA prior to ME2.

 

[Roni]

If anyone really feels that way, then fucking get out there and buy games that represent the golden past of gaming such as the System Shock remake that just dropped today on PC. No point in complaining without doing something about it.

 

[Meicyn]

My problem with ME2 was they threw the baby out with the bath water.The first game needed refinement, they took the easy route and made everything too simple. The game was also aesthetically simplified, they bathed everything in shadows and called it a day.

They also made a more refined product as a consequence. Mass Effect 2 ran far better than Mass Effect 1 at launch. It also holds up better in terms of being a TPS. With the goal of wanting to have a finished trilogy before the end of that console generation, they made the right decision.

When you have the time and resources to build a house, you don’t set out to make the Taj Mahal. You focus on making a really good house. And that’s what Bioware did. Mass Effect 2 was less ambitious, but it was a more cohesive experience. Games with scope that exceed available resources yield half-baked gameplay experiences. It’s easy to think about what the Presidium could have been like on a fully-explorable revisit in the sequel if they had devoted resources to such an endeavor, or if we could have gone exploring on more planets with a Mako-2, but it would have taken away from other areas.

 

[Umbasaborne]

I agree, they were probably my favorite studio from 2007-2012. Modern triple a games industry is fucking terrible now, and bioware is a shell of what they used to be

 

[Koenigssee]

Didn't like Jedi Survivor that much so I decided to return to SWTOR to see what I had missed.

A mixed bag of a game but still a great game nonetheless. Money well spent on an one month subscription.

It's crazy how many characters in that game you could kill via conversation choices. Never seen that in a RPG before.

 

[bender]

Everything after Shadows of Amn was downhill.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Anyone else looking at todays games and just can‘t help wondering why on earth it just takes THAT much longer to make them?

 

[Teletraan1]

Prior to getting acquired by EA Bioware pumped out some amazing games. They had talented people and passion. You could see the decline in real time as each game got more soulless and less a game I wanted to play from them. Now you would have to pay me to play a game by that shell of a company.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Kids nowadays spend all their time playing GaaS games. Studios spend years supporting a single title.

 

[YuLY]

Mass Effect 1-3 was lightning in a bottle, it will most probably never be replicated again by anyone. A trilogy of that quality with saves carrying over from one game to another, just a masterpiece. My favorite game series ever and its not even close. Its sad to realise since 2012 when ME3 came out, we still havent gotten a space opera alternative. Like to me thats just crazy, it feels like this industry is afraid of building cool interesting universes and just go for the usual post-apoc or zoomer trap hip Saints row/Fairgame$/Hyenas/Redfall style...such trash.

Sorry for running offtrack, but I just cant help it that its been a decade since ME trilogy and nothing even close to resembling an alternative is on the horizon. I'm hyped like the next guy for Starfield, but feels much more grounded and not with intelligent alien species for it to qualify as a space opera, its close to AAA no man's sky. I guess Guardians of Galaxy by Eidos is kinda, but its more action-adventure than RPG, besides Kotor 1-2 theres literally nothing else.

The even more sad part is that its not only the insane unsustainable budgets and 5years of development, its also the lack of talent. Its pretty clear many people of the 360 era have left the industry for greener pastures and the new blood that replaced them are just not on the same level. Instead of having the passion to create art, they are more worried about pushing their agenda.
I'm glad I can rely on my games library, else I would probably play like 2 new games per year and eventually drop off from the hobby. Thankfully I'm the type that loves replaying games that he enjoyed so I got that to fall back on. The ps360 era was special.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Only Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 were good.

Everything else was hot garbage

ME2 was one of the all time greats.

 

[Meicyn]

Anyone else looking at todays games and just can‘t help wondering why on earth it just takes THAT much longer to make them?

Graphics.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Everyones run on 360 and ps3 was amazing.
Whole gears trilogy
Whole uncharted trilogy
gta iv and rdr and gta 5
2 souls games
Oblivion, Fallout3, New Vegas, Skyrim,
4 fucking best ever Saints Row Games
3 Uncharted games + tlou2.

Games too 2 years to develop... max 3 and were always groundbreaking good looking. Where did it go wrong

It’s true… it might be a greatest gen ever. Certainly close if not.

 

[Camreezie]

Only Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 were good.

Everything else was hot garbage

Mass effect 2 was better than both

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

ME2 was one of the all time greats.

Mass effect 2 was better than both

Mass Effect 2 started the decline.
Started putting celebrities as characters, forced humor, ammo clips, more emphasis on third person shooting than rpg, no mako exploration and instead some silly mining mini-game, and so on.

Only normies that watch Big Bang Theory liked Mass Effect 2.
And Mass Effect 3 went full Gears of War.

 

[WoJ]

Mass Effect 1 ismy favorite game of all time and the game that single handedly got me back into gaming. I had stopped playing anything other than sports games the occasional game I grew up with. I picked up a 360 in late 2009 and bought Mass Effect on a whim. I grew up loving JRPGs and decided to give ME1 a shot even though it wasn't a JRPG. I got swept up in the world Bioware created. I couldn't stop playing. I've probably played ME1 about 15 to 20 times.

ME2 sucked me in like no other and I'm one of the people that generally likes ME3 despite its flaws.

Bioware quickly became my favorite developer. Where they are now is a shame. I don't have a lot of faith in the next Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

 

[Soltype]

They also made a more refined product as a consequence. Mass Effect 2 ran far better than Mass Effect 1 at launch. It also holds up better in terms of being a TPS. With the goal of wanting to have a finished trilogy before the end of that console generation, they made the right decision.

When you have the time and resources to build a house, you don’t set out to make the Taj Mahal. You focus on making a really good house. And that’s what Bioware did. Mass Effect 2 was less ambitious, but it was a more cohesive experience. Games with scope that exceed available resources yield half-baked gameplay experiences. It’s easy to think about what the Presidium could have been like on a fully-explorable revisit in the sequel if they had devoted resources to such an endeavor, or if we could have gone exploring on more planets with a Mako-2, but it would have taken away from other areas.

I can't speak on performance, I played them on PC. Mass Effect 2 was a very solid game, but it was over distilled, there was just too much essence of the first game missing for me.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Mass Effect 2 started the decline.
Started putting celebrities as characters, forced humor, ammo clips, more emphasis on third person shooting than rpg, no mako exploration and instead some silly mining mini-game, and so on.

Only normies that watch Big Bang Theory liked Mass Effect 2.
And Mass Effect 3 went full Gears of War.

Actual facts. Would you like to pick Blue or Red decision? Don't forget the FF XIII narrow corridors on missions for ME2/3. Zero exploration or variety.

 

[Meicyn]

I can't speak on performance, I played them on PC. Mass Effect 2 was a very solid game, but it was over distilled, there was just too much essence of the first game missing for me.

I get that. I played a lot of Elite Dangerous for awhile and can relate on the desire to have the “wide” experience. Most gamers though, are very focused on receiving the blockbuster experience. Making that requires an ungodly amount of resources.

Mass Effect from the outset, was focused on giving that 80s scifi movie-in-a-game feel, and Mass Effect 2 pretty much nailed what they were going for. But there’s always a cost. There was no way they could give both the spectacle of the sequel while retaining the scope of the original.

It brings to mind the recent Dragons Dogma 2 trailer. A fair number of folks said it looks bland. Why? There’s a distinct lack of over-the-top setpieces. It was a mishmash of purposely chosen gameplay segments primarily showcasing mechanics and content rather than tightly-controlled QTEs and cutscenes. Most gamers are focused on spectacle.

 

[Zheph]

It's nice to see people feeling nostalgic and wanting shorter dev cycle but when a game doesn't look great with today's standards we get 5 threads about it looking meh so.... yeah dev cycles are gonna get longer and longer

 

[k_trout]

its like a lost love, makes me kind of sad

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I’m was just thinking I loved Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance and I’d love a new one. Then I remembered we got a new one a couple years ago and it sucked ass.

 

[cireza]

We lost track of what is important in games and added an infinite stack of middlewares to the development process, which only make things longer and more complicated. True winners will understand this and get rid of all the shit that slows them down and cannibalizes hardware resources, and make great games with only what is necessary.

Proprietary engines are the reason we can have a games such as Metroid Prime Remastered or Metroid Dread looking as good as they look and running at perfectly constant 60fps on Switch.

 

[Zug]

I remember Dragon Age being disapointing in many ways after Baldur's Gate 2.
Still a good game and a much better single player experience than NwN, but they never reached BG2 peak ever again, even though I like the ME trilogy too.

 

[xBlueStonex]

None of the staff were working from home at the time. In person collaboration will always trump working from home in pajamas, I've been saying it for years. The industry is too soft now with overprivileged devs that see a return to the office as "oppression".

 

[{insert code here}]

Been thinking about building out a 360 collection before the aftermarket prices start pumping. Its already happened for some games. Can't find a used copy of lollipop chainsaw, shadows of the damned, or armored core 3/4/5 for under a hundred.

Is series X compatible with the whole 360 library? Might just pick up an old 360 tho, its controller is still the goat.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Graphics.

I don‘t buy it. Not the doubling of dev time. On the PSone it took em 2 years on average. On the PS3 as well. And now we‘re what… at 4-6 years? I don’t get it.

 

[Captain Toad]

It's not just Broward, it's the industry. Games are taking exponential more work for incremental strides forward.

Naughty Dog, for example, released Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us in a few years period. Now, everything is taking three times as long to come out and costs a lot more to make.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Considering that Mass Effect 2 is probably one of the best games I've ever played as well as Mass Effect 1, it would be hard for me to disagree with you.

 

[Gambit2483]

The (shitty) state of Modern Gaming can be summed up in one word.

Monetization.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Imagine how those of us who were around for Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 feel... Bioware were so good, now they're just shovelling out EA's shite.