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A Halogaf Community Thread: The Old Becomes New

Still fire up MCC from time to time, not as often though as I don't really like the level of sweats in this game for Aussie population now combined with what I consider poor playlist selections of maps/gametypes. Tooting my own horn here, and I know it's not against top tier players/teams but this old man still hasn't lost his Halo touch -

2f5a3989-db89-4422-9d94-4005e1e1cc94.PNG


Took out a 3v4 neutral bomb game recently too, just outslayed the other team (I'm usually the OBJ guy so it's a bit out of character for me) -

48c2debd-a9fe-49b3-b4ac-58a1e10a735d.PNG
 
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That's one thing from before I took a break from Halo is that the population in the master chief collection consisted largely of super dedicated players that were pretty good. Which makes sense as most of the people who still play would be long-time fans. I spent almost all my time in the CE Team Slayer playlist and there was rarely a game with below average players. Every game was sweaty like you said.
 
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That's one thing from before I took a break from Halo is that the population in the master chief collection consisted largely of super dedicated players that were pretty good. Which makes sense as most of the people who still play would be long-time fans. I spent almost all my time in the CE Team Slayer playlist and there was rarely a game with below average players. Every game was sweaty like you said.

I think this is one major issue for Halo and arena in general where the hardcore players and teams just dominate matchmaking which turns new players/teams away from long term sticking with the game. New modes and maps should help alleviate such things, for awhile at least, but it's intrinsic with most FPS fanbases these days. A buddy and I tried to go with COD Warzone recently and I'm just getting my ass handed to me across the board e.g. I don't know the maps, buildings, meta, loadouts, camping/anti-camping etc. I've never really played COD TBH. I realise Halo and games such as COD WZ alike have these decades long dedicated players just wrecking the population for the most part. There is a large learning curve to such games and I think it's something developers struggle with. How do you bring in new players but reward your dedicated hardcore simultaneously?

When I compare the designed gameplay elements, maps and beats of say Fortnite and Apex there is insight to what and why things are implemented as well as received successfully by large populations. It's more than just being on so many platforms and devices as I feel it's designed from the outset to lower that learning curve initially and for say some weeks or months with the game but still presenting a large skill gap for players and teams to be rewarded or years e.g. less punishing to learn and similar rewards for playing well solo or with a team over time.

Things like revive, respawn, gulag, buy backs etc all go some way to allowing players/teams second chances while delivering players back to matchmaking pools often. This is where I feel arena games are losing out to BR style games, it's that end game that rewards the dedicated players but the quick and regional matchmaking of population pools from player recycling of lesser outcomes/skills.

No matter how well Infinite designs gameplay and maps if they're not integrated with optimising this balancing act of new vs skill, solo vs team and region vs pools they're dead in the water over time in terms of fast matches and quality connection in games. All of that combine for player experience and it cannot just be focused on esports or USA again. Halo will fail hard if they go that route again. Of course the MCC/H5 systems have matured since then so I expect many of those issue will be far more optimised and help attract/retain more players from launch initially than any other Halo release.
 
It'll be interesting to see how 343 does multiplayer. It's almost guaranteed we'll get a new warzone style playlist since infinite is going to be more of an open world game. Though 343 needs to put a lot of effort into traditional BTB and arena style maps. If BTB maps are an after thought again this time around I'll be hugely disappointed. And then there are the quality of life additions that you mention.
 
It'll be interesting to see how 343 does multiplayer. It's almost guaranteed we'll get a new warzone style playlist since infinite is going to be more of an open world game. Though 343 needs to put a lot of effort into traditional BTB and arena style maps. If BTB maps are an after thought again this time around I'll be hugely disappointed. And then there are the quality of life additions that you mention.
I hope they turn WZ into BR, truly hope this is one of their statements they go back on. A Halo take on BR would be insane, Apex has shown me the light.


I was so close.

dkvX3S7.png
 
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nillapuddin

Member
So very ominous with Infinite around the corner...best or worst to come?

You still forging?
best has yet to come, Im feeling confident

I really fell off forge lately tbh, I sort of conquered all the projects I was passionate about and after I completed my flawless BR mode only to find out that scripting broke over XBL it really soured me on the whole experience tbh

I am 100% charged up and ready to go for Infinite Forge though. Like, insanely excited
 
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best has yet to come, Im feeling confident

I really fell off forge lately tbh, I sort of conquered all the projects I was passionate about and after I completed my flawless BR mode only to find out that scripting broke over XBL it really soured me on the whole experience tbh

I am 100% charged up and ready to go for Infinite Forge though. Like, insanely excited

I have my doubts but I'm going to give Infinite every chance it deserves.

Damn that sucks mate. I really hope they open up Infinite PC to the community and embrace modding etc across PC to Xbox. They have a golden goose right there, just have to let the community lay the eggs.

Forge is one area I also feel really confident about with Infinite, 343 have a great team with Forge resources. I'll be sure to hit that like and subscribe.
 
I don't think warzone should necessarily be scrapped; I enjoyed it for what it was. If anything Id love to see 343 just add a battle royale mode in addition to everything else. It's one of those, "why not both?" arguments.

My memory is getting worse with age, but the master chief collection playlists, or at least some, allow join-in-progress correct? While that is a much harder sell when playing ranked matches, especially anything not btb size, I would love to have ranked btb return with an efficient join-in-progress system implemented.
No matter how well Infinite designs gameplay and maps if they're not integrated with optimising this balancing act of new vs skill, solo vs team and region vs pools they're dead in the water over time in terms of fast matches and quality connection in games. All of that combine for player experience and it cannot just be focused on esports or USA again. Halo will fail hard if they go that route again. Of course the MCC/H5 systems have matured since then so I expect many of those issue will be far more optimised and help attract/retain more players from launch initially than any other Halo release.
This is very true. I think with the first few halos the games were so fun that it didn't matter if you were getting your butt kicked as a new player. New players should be directed to appropriate playlists obviously as that also helps a great deal. But we were also seeing halo players getting better and better, which made it that much more difficult for newcomers to the game.
 
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RIP to the real MVP.


This blew my mind I've never seen the AI in CE do this. Meanwhile in Halo 5 I lost count of how many times I was right in front of an AI teammate and they wouldn't even revive me.

The AI in CE were a lot of fun. They were not very helpful unless holding a rocket launcher or sniper rifle. But, they were highly entertaining and were usually good enough to stay out of the way.
 
Latest update on halowaypoint: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/inside-infinite-march-2021




Links to 3 previously shared Infinite tracks:
Spotify
Skill Tree Records
Amazon
iTunes
Apple Music


A new Banished weapon called the Skewer?
G8Q3XuN.jpg


Some random quotes from the article:

"One other way we’re increasing spatial awareness in Halo Infinite is through Virtual Surround Sound. Halo Infinite will be the first Halo title to support the Virtual Surround Sound technologies Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, and DTS Headphone:X."

"My favorite audio element in Halo Infinite has got to be the music. The music team has truly captured the core of what Halo is, and has brought such an incredible feeling of wonder, mystery, heroism, excitement, and emotion to the game. It’s also one of the areas of the game audio that I personally spend the least time working on, so I love that I get to experience the music with really fresh ears, much like our players and fans will. Every time I play the game, I hear new, beautiful, inspiring music and it makes my job better every day!"

"We’ve entered my favorite part of shipping any project. The foundation of the entire game is here, now’s the time when each new build comes bundled with amazing polish pieces from across the teams working together to deliver Halo Infinite"

"Folks are getting a better sense of things coming together and we’re seeing teams coming together afterward to fix and mitigate the issues they themselves experienced during play. We’ve also started “putting our ears on” in terms of feedback processes and analytics to better hone in on what needs to be done. All this is to say, we’re getting closer and closer to public flighting so I’ll end the same way I always do by reminding folks to sign up for Halo Insider” - Sam Hanshaw, Live Producer"

"Multiplayer is one area where we’ve pushed things in some new directions, I hope to chat more about that soon!"

"Whenever starting on a redesign of a classic Halo item we always start by asking ourselves how this should be evolved. A lot of times we change content so that it matches the direction and overall sonic quality of the new assets we are creating. The first thing we begin with a redesign is listening to the original files and start dissecting it to try and find the essence of it.

Over the years we have tried to absorb as much feedback from the community as possible as their opinion matters greatly to us. It was this feedback that helped us decide to bring back all the original Master Chief shield sounds.

There was a lot of inspiration from the original trilogy that we incorporated into some of our new designs. I think people will experience a strong dose of nostalgia when playing this game."
 
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The sounds was one of the weakest part of the gameplay reveal. The shotgun in particular had one of the worst and weakest sounds I've ever heard on a shotgun. A lot of the gun sounds just missed the mark, they sound so muted and toned down compared to previous Halo games.



Compare this to the Infinite gameplay demo, you can just skim to the shotgun and assault rifle to see the difference.
 
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The sounds was one of the weakest part of the gameplay reveal. The shotgun in particular had one of the worst and weakest sounds I've ever heard on a shotgun. A lot of the gun sounds just missed the mark, they sound so muted and toned down compared to previous Halo games.



Compare this to the Infinite gameplay demo, you can just skim to the shotgun and assault rifle to see the difference.

After going back and looking at the original trailer I can't believe how similar the shotgun and pistol sound in Infinite. The H3 shotgun definitely has a beefier and more satisfying sound. I wonder if that will get switched up a bit in the final release. I also would have liked to see a little more precision weapons in action. A lot of the trailer was filled with automatic fire. Nothing wrong with that but precision weapons are what I enjoy most when playing Halo.
 
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Pretty cool to hear that H3 version of the reveal, it's quite well done.

I have to put my hat in the ring for precision weapons with Halo but I'll take the sandbox of H3 default/OBJ over say the pistol/BR of MLG/HCS/H5 thanks. I reference Apex a lot but there is a god tier balance of weapons between autos and precision weapons in that sandbox. One of the few to rival and even exceed Halo in terms of weapons sandbox and balance.
 
Pretty cool to hear that H3 version of the reveal, it's quite well done.

I have to put my hat in the ring for precision weapons with Halo but I'll take the sandbox of H3 default/OBJ over say the pistol/BR of MLG/HCS/H5 thanks. I reference Apex a lot but there is a god tier balance of weapons between autos and precision weapons in that sandbox. One of the few to rival and even exceed Halo in terms of weapons sandbox and balance.
I never played Apex Legends but I watched streams of others playing on many occasions. It looked fun. I enjoyed watching streams of Apex Legends exponentially over watching streams of Fortnite.
 
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h00ters

Member
I never played Apex Legends but I watched streams of others playing on many occasions. It looked fun. I enjoyed watching streams of Apex Legends exponentially over watching streams of Fortnite.
It's a great game. Even though they're vastly different games, I think there's a big reason why a lot of the Halo community found a lot to like with Apex. Movement is so much more important in Apex than it is in COD, and the longer TTK means you need to think your way through a fight rather than just crouch and spray.
 

II_JumPeR_I

Member
I really wish MS would move on from that "wait until summer" approach.
This nothing burger blog posts about Infinite are boring.
I just wanna see that trainwreck that will be the Infinite Multiplayer
 
I don't think Infinite's multiplayer will be a trainwreck. If anything, multiplayer is where 343 has been most consistent. Halo 4 was fluid and precise, marred only by the decision to include so many armor abilities by default. That game could have been something special if they had removed promethean vision, invis, and jetpacks as abilities a player could simply run around with forever. The random ordnance and the way powerups were gained also we're not the best decisions in hindsight.

Then you have Halo 5 which was a complete reworking of the multiplayer system with new moves never before seen in Halo. Surprisingly it worked. I think 343 gets a lot of what makes Halo multiplayer fun. They just need to have consistently better maps and not sabotage their own game with a few bad choices here and there.
 

JLB

Banned
I think this is one major issue for Halo and arena in general where the hardcore players and teams just dominate matchmaking which turns new players/teams away from long term sticking with the game. New modes and maps should help alleviate such things, for awhile at least, but it's intrinsic with most FPS fanbases these days. A buddy and I tried to go with COD Warzone recently and I'm just getting my ass handed to me across the board e.g. I don't know the maps, buildings, meta, loadouts, camping/anti-camping etc. I've never really played COD TBH. I realise Halo and games such as COD WZ alike have these decades long dedicated players just wrecking the population for the most part. There is a large learning curve to such games and I think it's something developers struggle with. How do you bring in new players but reward your dedicated hardcore simultaneously?

When I compare the designed gameplay elements, maps and beats of say Fortnite and Apex there is insight to what and why things are implemented as well as received successfully by large populations. It's more than just being on so many platforms and devices as I feel it's designed from the outset to lower that learning curve initially and for say some weeks or months with the game but still presenting a large skill gap for players and teams to be rewarded or years e.g. less punishing to learn and similar rewards for playing well solo or with a team over time.

Things like revive, respawn, gulag, buy backs etc all go some way to allowing players/teams second chances while delivering players back to matchmaking pools often. This is where I feel arena games are losing out to BR style games, it's that end game that rewards the dedicated players but the quick and regional matchmaking of population pools from player recycling of lesser outcomes/skills.

No matter how well Infinite designs gameplay and maps if they're not integrated with optimising this balancing act of new vs skill, solo vs team and region vs pools they're dead in the water over time in terms of fast matches and quality connection in games. All of that combine for player experience and it cannot just be focused on esports or USA again. Halo will fail hard if they go that route again. Of course the MCC/H5 systems have matured since then so I expect many of those issue will be far more optimised and help attract/retain more players from launch initially than any other Halo release.

Halo 5 and others created separated lists (social aka casual, ranked aka pros), in a way to segregate the player base and try to avoid that.
But yeah, definitely is something really frustrating.
 

II_JumPeR_I

Member
I don't think Infinite's multiplayer will be a trainwreck. If anything, multiplayer is where 343 has been most consistent. Halo 4 was fluid and precise, marred only by the decision to include so many armor abilities by default. That game could have been something special if they had removed promethean vision, invis, and jetpacks as abilities a player could simply run around with forever. The random ordnance and the way powerups were gained also we're not the best decisions in hindsight.

Then you have Halo 5 which was a complete reworking of the multiplayer system with new moves never before seen in Halo. Surprisingly it worked. I think 343 gets a lot of what makes Halo multiplayer fun. They just need to have consistently better maps and not sabotage their own game with a few bad choices here and there.
Disagree.
Halo 5 was terrible
 
Disagree.
Halo 5 was terrible
Ha fair enough. I will freely admit that the campaign was pretty bad, but I had a good time with the multiplayer. I wish they had had more dev made maps, especially for BTB. What is your position on the new stuff they added in Halo 5? I'm an anti-sprint person, but i can tolerate it. I was more thinking along the lines of what are your opinions on ground pound, thrusters, and clamber. Those were some pretty massive changes to the Halo formula and I can understand if people hated them. Warzone was the other big addition and I'm not going to say it was perfect but i had fun with it.
 

II_JumPeR_I

Member
Ha fair enough. I will freely admit that the campaign was pretty bad, but I had a good time with the multiplayer. I wish they had had more dev made maps, especially for BTB. What is your position on the new stuff they added in Halo 5? I'm an anti-sprint person, but i can tolerate it. I was more thinking along the lines of what are your opinions on ground pound, thrusters, and clamber. Those were some pretty massive changes to the Halo formula and I can understand if people hated them. Warzone was the other big addition and I'm not going to say it was perfect but i had fun with it.
Sry for the late reply.
Halo 5. Yeah where do i start.

Campaign no question was ass (only good thing i liked about the campaign was, that the coop is running Dedi servers).

MP? Uff
Terrible cluttered Maps
Out of jail abilities with thrust
Broken aiming mechanics that never got fixd
No dev made btb maps (i cant stand Forge maps and never will)
Warzone was basicly pay2win with the Weapon variants etc
SBMM in unranked playlists ( i dont wanna sweat for a 50 in unranked pkaylists, fuck that)

Tldr Halo 5 MP was terrible to play for me.

Ive started some H3 Hardcore playing on the MCC sime days ago and man this MLG settings still play so amazing. Its just fun getting this clutch flag runs without kids sprinting at me or 1v1 battles without cheese abilities.
Thats just pure Halo for me.
 
I meant the shitty "remaster" and using the PC port for classic mode.
Oh right. Yeah I think every single OG fan of CE agrees with you there. I appreciate the PC port as it's probably the only way CE matchmaking would have ever made it to Xbox live. But I agree that it isn't 100% true to the original and does feel slightly off.
 
Man we let this thread get pushed to page 2...
Star Wars No GIF


So we know a lot of people were disappointed with the campaign reveal last year. I think it goes without saying that 343 will be working tirelessly to make the game look as awesome as possible now until the game ships. What we didn't see last year was anything forge related and zippo on the multiplayer side. I expect we'll see a new version of Warzone at E3 as well as a full reveal on everything else in the game. Hoping for dev made BTB maps. Perhaps some toning down of abilities, which I know will never actually happen. Sprint, clamber and whatever else is likely going to be in the game no matter what.

The bumper on my elite controller finally broke. I ordered a replacement part and ended up breaking the rest of the controller trying to replace the bumper XD It will be a while before I feel comfortable spending a bunch of money on a new elite controller. The reason I bring it up is that with Halo 5 matchmaking you really did need a controller with paddles to be competitive. I hope 343 somehow makes it to where a person can use a controller without paddles and get by with a bumper jumper configuration if nothing else. Pretty please 343??? It would also possibly make the game less intimidating to newer players. And please give me my solo queue for team slayer/objective games on day one :O

Favor Please GIF by swerk
 
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Yep, my elite 2 has a bumper issue too.

Definitely need paddles in Infinite and other modern shooters too.

One area I don't hear being talked about is the rampant console cheating with add-on cronus devices e.g. paddles/usb with controller mods built in. It's getting really widespread now, so many cheaters these days, same goes for streamers.

Apex really shows it up e.g. the damage/death report shows shot counts, headshots etc for your specific death in game. I've seen too much crazy shit.

Platforms, legals and devs need to be more open and proactive. Literally ruining fun and competitive games alike.
 
Yep, my elite 2 has a bumper issue too.

Definitely need paddles in Infinite and other modern shooters too.

One area I don't hear being talked about is the rampant console cheating with add-on cronus devices e.g. paddles/usb with controller mods built in. It's getting really widespread now, so many cheaters these days, same goes for streamers.

Apex really shows it up e.g. the damage/death report shows shot counts, headshots etc for your specific death in game. I've seen too much crazy shit.

Platforms, legals and devs need to be more open and proactive. Literally ruining fun and competitive games alike.
That makes me sad to hear. There's no true reward for cheating. You win games, but you also know you cheated to win those games. Ugh. I haven't been as active in gaming these past couple of years, and I definitely haven't spent much time in other shooters. So I haven't experienced any of the issues you mention.

Also, sorry to hear about your controller issues. Seems like something that shouldn't be able to happen or be very common with such an expensive controller, but alas...
 
That makes me sad to hear. There's no true reward for cheating. You win games, but you also know you cheated to win those games. Ugh. I haven't been as active in gaming these past couple of years, and I definitely haven't spent much time in other shooters. So I haven't experienced any of the issues you mention.

Also, sorry to hear about your controller issues. Seems like something that shouldn't be able to happen or be very common with such an expensive controller, but alas...
Seems bumper issues are the main issue carrying over from elite 1 to elite 2 and they should have better build quality.

Yep the cheating is in so many games these days, zero recoil, aim assist/auto, rapid fire and even game > weapon specific with monthly sub updates. It's fucking disgusting. Just select from a LCD screen, the scripts load and they're easily cheating their asses off. It's my understanding the platforms/legal cannot do anything currently because it's modding the controller inputs rather than the console or game itself. It's going to take a real shake up things legally and platform wise for devs to even be able to combat. My local games shops just sell these devices and they're preordered online and constantly sold out. $30-$200 and you're a YoutTube streaming one man army. Sad.
 
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Some new Halo images with the latest insiders edition. Plus some more teasing about Infinite flighting.

haloinfinite_campaign_pc_spire_32x9_wm-4926c5c11eea444daab70d0bd1dbd0e7.png



haloinfinite_campaign_pc_32x9_wm-9194fba57f384695964cd4d794e607d6.png


We’ve been conducting external flights and playtesting with a very small external group representing a variety of backgrounds. Getting to see folks outside the company experience the game for the first time is a thrill. The feedback we’ve been getting has been heartening in many areas, and impactful in others. Seeing a turnaround in opinion based on changes is truly gratifying. Rest assured, now that we’ve gotten our feet wet over the last couple of months, we’re progressing towards expanding playtesting opportunities as soon as we can, so keep those Halo Insider profiles updated! –Sam Hanshaw, Live Producer

haloinfinite_campaign_pc_ring_21x9-9bc8168f0b9b49d28aa515e31bc93d91.png
 
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Havoc2049

Member
I got tired of subpar first party build quality for controllers this past gen. I've been using the Razer Wolverine Ultimate for the past six months and love it. No problems with any of the buttons and no stick drift. I also like the placement of the paddles, as they don't get in the way of normal controller use. The bumpers are also designed in a way that I don't get accidental bumper presses in the heat of the battle.

I tried the new Series X/S controller for about a week, but just went back to the Razer.
 
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I got tired of subpar first party build quality for controllers this past gen. I've been using the Razer Wolverine Ultimate for the past six months and love it. No problems with any of the buttons and no stick drift. I also like the placement of the paddles, as they don't get in the way of normal controller use. The bumpers are also designed in a way that I don't get accidental bumper presses in the heat of the battle.

I tried the new Series X/S controller for about a week, but just went back to the Razer.
I must look into this razer controller you speak of. Sounds like a perfect solution. Is there an app for the Xbox that allows you to map the buttons?
 
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Havoc2049

Member
I must look into this razer controller you speak of. Sounds like a perfect solution. Is there an app for the Xbox that allows you to map the buttons?
Yes. It can also be programed on the controller itself. It's also a Razer Chroma product and supports Chroma lighting effects. It also has interchangeable thumbsticks and d-pads and comes with a case as well. The only drawback is that it's wired. I game at a desk though, so it isn't an issue for me. I would actually rather have wired, just so that I don't have to deal with batteries and battery packs and the dreaded low battery warning in the middle of an online match. :messenger_grimmacing_
 
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Yes. It can also be programed on the controller itself. It's also a Razer Chroma product and supports Chroma lighting effects. It also has interchangeable thumbsticks and d-pads and comes with a case as well. The only drawback is that it's wired. I game at a desk though, so it isn't an issue for me. I would actually rather have wired, just so that I don't have to deal with batteries and battery packs and the dreaded low battery warning in the middle of an online match. :messenger_grimmacing_

Wired give you back a little latency too, which is nice.

I'm pretty sick of the bumper issue and also the accidental paddle presses you mention, especially the bottom right paddle. I'll give the Razor a look into too, thanks.
 

stickkidsam

Member
Yes. It can also be programed on the controller itself. It's also a Razer Chroma product and supports Chroma lighting effects. It also has interchangeable thumbsticks and d-pads and comes with a case as well. The only drawback is that it's wired. I game at a desk though, so it isn't an issue for me. I would actually rather have wired, just so that I don't have to deal with batteries and battery packs and the dreaded low battery warning in the middle of an online match. :messenger_grimmacing_
I've been interested in picking up an Elite style controller for a while but I'm seeing online that the Wolverine doesn't let you remap the back paddles on PC. Do you know if this is true?
 
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