Thaedolus
Member
I mean actually expecting every lay person to be a qualified building inspector, plane inspector, 13485 auditor, pharmaceutical expert, automotive engineer and apply that to the free market…is a good thing?
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737Max: Boy sitting in row 26 had his t-shirt sucked off him while his mother was holding on to him - Alaska Airlines flight B39M
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HoodWinked
Member
It's not all bad usually it takes a plane crash to trigger more scrutiny and safety reviews. Domestic commercial flights are still without a single crash fatality in over two decades.
Thaedolus
Member
Not quite, but safety certainly is better than it’s ever been
Thaedolus
Member
I agree that’s a huge issue. When you get an auditor one year that says “you need to do it this way” and then another the next year that says “why are you doing it this way, you should be doing it (the old way)” it’s super obnoxious. I call it reviewer/auditor roulette, and navigating that subjective aspect is a skill I’ve had to develop. But at the same time, when a regulator is making total sense, sometimes convincing curmudgeonly engineers of that is another part of the game.
Cyberpunkd
Member
I can guarantee this thumbnail was ChatGPT-generated lol.
Anyway - thing is simple: Boeing stopped being an engineering company because they are US-based, and there everything at some point devolves to money. Airbus is government-owned EU venture, so they have that mentality of "making money is good, but if we can't let's just go crazy" which is why A380 was born. This also means that Boeing planes are designed according to "we have a fixed budget, what do we need to cut" philosophy and Airbus planes are more like "we have a fixed set of objectives, how much over budget are we going to get?".
Unknown Soldier
Member
Alaska Air CEO Says Loose Bolts Found in ‘Many’ Boeing Jets
Alaska Air Group Inc. found loose bolts on “many” of its Boeing Co. 737 Max 9 aircraft following the midair blowout of a panel on one of its planes earlier this month, the carrier’s chief executive officer said in an interview with NBC.
www.bloomberg.com
"If it's Boeing, I ain't going"
Kenpachii
Member
Alaska Air CEO Says Loose Bolts Found in ‘Many’ Boeing Jets
Alaska Air Group Inc. found loose bolts on “many” of its Boeing Co. 737 Max 9 aircraft following the midair blowout of a panel on one of its planes earlier this month, the carrier’s chief executive officer said in an interview with NBC.
"If it's Boeing, I ain't going"
Jesus christ, how are these planes not banned yet.
newtypepilot
Member
Boeing has been sabotaged by mcdonnell douglas execs ever since the merger.
bender
What time is it?
Alaska Air CEO Says Loose Bolts Found in ‘Many’ Boeing Jets
Alaska Air Group Inc. found loose bolts on “many” of its Boeing Co. 737 Max 9 aircraft following the midair blowout of a panel on one of its planes earlier this month, the carrier’s chief executive officer said in an interview with NBC.
"If it's Boeing, I ain't going"
I stopped flying after 9/11. Who's fears are irrational now, mom?
Cyberpunkd
Member
You are aware two Boeing planes dropped killing everyone due to faulty design that was nowhere mentioned in the manual?
Thaedolus
Member
I just saw a comment of “I’m never flying unbuckled anymore…”
I’m sorry if you don’t buckle, you’re a fucking moron. I’ve been lifted out of my seat from clear air turbulence before, if I weren’t buckled I’d have slammed into the bulkhead. Coffee pot in the rear galley shattered, people screaming like we were all going to die, braced myself against the seat in front of me and told the kid in the middle seat next to me we’d be fine because his dad by the window was losing it…flight attendant said in 17 years that was the craziest shit she ever endured
Always buckle.
I’m sorry if you don’t buckle, you’re a fucking moron. I’ve been lifted out of my seat from clear air turbulence before, if I weren’t buckled I’d have slammed into the bulkhead. Coffee pot in the rear galley shattered, people screaming like we were all going to die, braced myself against the seat in front of me and told the kid in the middle seat next to me we’d be fine because his dad by the window was losing it…flight attendant said in 17 years that was the craziest shit she ever endured
Always buckle.
Toots
Gold Member
Its been years we know the 737 max are shit and the FAA has its nose so far up boeing ass they are the only one unable to see the glaring technical faults of this plane.
Wake me up when a boy gets sucked off 26 times in a row by a flight attendant on an Alaska airlines flight while his mother is nowhere to be find.
Wake me up when a boy gets sucked off 26 times in a row by a flight attendant on an Alaska airlines flight while his mother is nowhere to be find.
ForAcademicPurposes
Gold Member
That shirt size must have been XL because I don't see it happening like a ducking cartoon.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
In europe we buckle at the beginning and the end. The rest of the flight is not obligatory. Some people don't obey even for 10 or 20 minutes? Are they that stupid?
Thaedolus
Member
You should buckle any time you’re in your seat. There’s turbulent air you can fly into while cruising that is impossible to detect until your plane just drops. This flight I was talking about felt like a free fall for a couple seconds at a time, then slam back into the seat. Repeat for a couple minutes while the engines roared and the pilots banked back and forth to get out of it. Thankfully it was only the coffee pot that got hurt, but people get killed by unexpected turbulence. The pilots came on finally and said we’d dropped to 16,000 feet and would be climbing back up to cruising altitude, that was a 20,000ft drop in like two minutes.
Buckle up.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Interesting. It never happened to me but I can understand the problem if it did. Curious to know if there is danger why it is not mandatory to stay buckled up during all the flight then.
Thaedolus
Member
It’s rare, I’ve flown probably hundreds of times before and since and I’ve only experienced it once. But it happens, and it’s fucking terrifying. One of only a couple times in my life I thought I might die right then.
Edit:
One time I was on a flight where someone had a heart attack, that was the only other quick descent roller coaster ride, get the fuck to the end of the runway everyone chill we’re here 35 minutes early flight I’ve had. That was much less scary because I knew the pilots were in control
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
If you think that's the problem, I have bridge to sell you. It has been documented how the culture of making stuff cheapest as possible leads to this, shares buyback and so on.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Thanks for the answer. I always think that we will have warnings before it get dangerous but we can never know.
Thaedolus
Member
That’s the problem: there is no warning. Most turbulence can be seen in advance and avoided, or they’ll tell you to fasten your seatbelt, but clear air turbulence comes seemingly out of nowhere. So it’s rare, but you should always be buckled up if you’re in your seat.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I mostly use planes for 2h flights so I don't really move. But the few times I did long flights I saw people staying and walking all the flight. Weird that they allow that when the danger exist. I think that this hapenned to my mom I saw a huge loss of altitude in a flight she took a few years ago. I will ask next time I will take a plane.
Thaedolus
Member
Yeah it’s not a common thing, like I said I’ve only experienced it once in hundreds of flights. But one time was enough to reinforce the fact you’re flying in a metal tube at 500MPH and should probably be strapped in
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
True. Better safe than sorry.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Indeed. I don't get people who can't stand buckling themselves in during car or plane rides.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Sitting in a A320neo waiting for takeoff right now, I am glad that I haven’t come across any Maxes on the routes I fly commercially
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Awesome. Also recommending flying on those new A220-300 (if you are in Europe, I would like to suggest Swiss or airBaltic), those planes are awesome, quick to take off, quiet and has a lot of leg room as I am 190cm tall it matters. Most of these A320 has less room, which is strange because its a bigger plane.Sitting in a A320neo waiting for takeoff right now, I am glad that I haven’t come across any Maxes on the routes I fly commercially
STARSBarry
Gold Member
That stupid, since 9/11 I have an irrational fear of being in large skyscrapers, that's far more grounded.
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bender
What time is it?
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Thaedolus
Member
Absolutely unfathomable it gets to this point. Then again I know of a company that sent out dialysis catheters with production mandrels still inside…
Unknown Soldier
Member
Errors by Boeing at Renton plant led to Alaska Airlines MAX 9 blowout, industry source says
The piece that blew off an Alaska Airlines jet this month was removed and re-installed improperly by Boeing mechanics in Renton, according to a person familiar with the details of the work.
www.seattletimes.com
Boeing needs to be shut down and completely taken over by the government at this point. They have no business continuing to operate independently with the current level of regulatory oversight which is apparently none
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AJUMP23
Member
Errors by Boeing at Renton plant led to Alaska Airlines MAX 9 blowout, industry source says
The piece that blew off an Alaska Airlines jet this month was removed and re-installed improperly by Boeing mechanics in Renton, according to a person familiar with the details of the work.
Boeing needs to be shut down and completely taken over by the government at this point. They have no business continuing to operate independently with the current level of regulatory oversight which is apparently none
Never the solution. Last thing you want is government arbitrarily seizing private companies. Never ever never no not once ever.
HoodWinked
Member
Ya I called it, Spirit Aerospace is contracted with building the fuselage but Boeing does final assembly since they need to remove the doors to paint, and do final customizations before delivering to airlines.
Thaedolus
Member
No that’s not the solution, but putting them under heightened surveillance and scrutiny is absolutely called for at this point. FDA does this with companies out of compliance until they demonstrate they are back in compliance, and it’s no fun. FAA needs to lay down some fuckin protocol now.
Never the solution. Last thing you want is government arbitrarily seizing private companies. Never ever never no not once ever.
Chittagong
Gold Member
You are right. I was in “business” (same seats with middle seat free) and it was a fairly snug fit as I am 190cm as well.
Unknown Soldier
Member
FAA blocks Boeing production push but clears way for MAX 9s to fly again
Boeing faces unprecedented restrictions on its jet factories, but the FAA on Wednesday also approved an inspection plan that may allow airlines to fly MAX 9s within days.
www.seattletimes.com
Well, there it is. Let's see if Boeing does anything or will they just wait for inevitable bankruptcy. The government will have no choice but to take over and rescue Boeing if they go bankrupt because of how reliant they are on Boeing's defense production. At this point I cannot imagine anyone thinking it's safe to fly on any 737 MAX, nobody knows what else wasn't bolted onto those airplanes until another one falls out of the sky and kills another 200 people
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Tams
Member
That's because on long haul flights, it's important to let people stretch. Deep vein thrombosis is no joke; I knew someone who died from it.
Tams
Member
The A320 is an Airbus design, whereas the A220 is a Bombardier design (C series) that Airbus bought/acquired/rescued.
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Thaedolus
Member
In my experience, (in medical devices not aviation) they’ll likely be under some sort of remediation plan and have to demonstrate they’ve fixed their QC and possibly design issues. It’s actually baffling to me that they got to this point where there are apparently systemic issues. A mature quality system should never get to that point, but I guess enough bean counters and cuts can get you there.FAA blocks Boeing production push but clears way for MAX 9s to fly again
Boeing faces unprecedented restrictions on its jet factories, but the FAA on Wednesday also approved an inspection plan that may allow airlines to fly MAX 9s within days.
Well, there it is. Let's see if Boeing does anything or will they just wait for inevitable bankruptcy. The government will have no choice but to take over and rescue Boeing if they go bankrupt because of how reliant they are on Boeing's defense production. At this point I cannot imagine anyone thinking it's safe to fly on any 737 MAX, nobody knows what else wasn't bolted onto those airplanes until another one falls out of the sky and kills another 200 people
A quality system as old as Boeing’s should only get better over time. The fact that it’s apparently regressed to this state is a massive fuckup. I’ve put my foot down multiple times during risk assessments where maybe one patient could die if we had a failure, the idea of hand hand waving quality issues on a goddamn plane disgusts me.
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
It's a shame, Boeing used to be such a reputable company. Im a major aviation geek, accidents do happen to any aircraft type but its so obvious 737 Max was undercooked and overlooked as far as proper inspection goes. Hopefully this gets resolved because their 777X is coming next and if that aircraft has issues....dont know how much longer they can take the hits. So far airbus is just cruising in all this.
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Thats a normal thing to do, even on the pre flight safety video they tell you to stretch and move your limbs. People who didnt even know, could suffer from DVT (deep vein thrombosis). When there is actual possibility of turbulence, you will be told by the FAs to sit and buckle up in case of sudden mild or severe turbulence because you never know where thatone gust of wind might come from. Pilots have weather radars and 99% of the time avoid any obvious danger zones but at the same time they have to follow a flight path the tower control gives them, with permission to lower or extend their altitude or to fly around that black cloud.
Generally, you will have turbulence on every flight, it's a normal thing, nothing to be scared of. It's just winds hitting from opposite directions, same as in the ocean we have streams coming from different directions and they collide and make a whirlwind. As someone that worked in the aviation industry, you would be surprised just how much an aircraft can take. Some of them can flex their wings 90* without breaking. Its designed for extreme measures but 99.9% an airplane will never experience something so bad that it brings the aircraft down. As always and with recent aviation accidents, most of them happen during take-off and landing, not in the air.
People need to understand just how many aircrafts are up in the air at all times which is why they cant just avoid every single weather. Download FlightRadar 24 and you will see just how many planes are above you at this very moment
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Chittagong
Gold Member
Ah, interesting. Explains it seemingly coming out of nowhere. I do like Bombardier, their Global 6000 & 7500 are epic
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Thanks
AeonGaidenRaiden
. I mostly use low cost planes so there is no place for more than one person and as I am tall I prefer to no hinder other people in short flights. But I will try to move more in the future now that I know that it is recomendended and not just tolerated.
AeonGaidenRaiden
. I mostly use low cost planes so there is no place for more than one person and as I am tall I prefer to no hinder other people in short flights. But I will try to move more in the future now that I know that it is recomendended and not just tolerated.Unknown Soldier
Member
The legacy that Boeing built over the last century that has been thrown into the trash is staggering. At any given moment, there are about 4,000 Boeing 737's of various make and model in the air every day around the world. It's baffling to me that they would have squandered such a tremendous legacy the way they have with this MAX garbage. Boeing was one of the world's great companies, a towering American titan of engineering prowess and industrial might. Now they should be broken up for parts, the first thing that should be done is the old Boeing and the old McDonnell Douglas should be split up again, so Boeing can go back to producing commercial airliners which don't crash and McDonnell Douglas can go back to sucking the government teat for military and defense contract shit.Thats a normal thing to do, even on the pre flight safety video they tell you to stretch and move your limbs. People who didnt even know, could suffer from DVT (deep vein thrombosis). When there is actual possibility of turbulence, you will be told by the FAs to sit and buckle up in case of sudden mild or severe turbulence because you never know where thatone gust of wind might come from. Pilots have weather radars and 99% of the time avoid any obvious danger zones but at the same time they have to follow a flight path the tower control gives them, with permission to lower or extend their altitude or to fly around that black cloud.
Generally, you will have turbulence on every flight, it's a normal thing, nothing to be scared of. It's just winds hitting from opposite directions, same as in the ocean we have streams coming from different directions and they collide and make a whirlwind. As someone that worked in the aviation industry, you would be surprised just how much an aircraft can take. Some of them can flex their wings 90* without breaking. Its designed for extreme measures but 99.9% an airplane will never experience something so bad that it brings the aircraft down. As always and with recent aviation accidents, most of them happen during take-off and landing, not in the air.
People need to understand just how many aircrafts are up in the air at all times which is why they cant just avoid every single weather. Download FlightRadar 24 and you will see just how many planes are above you at this very moment
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