If you think RTD's run was somehow head and shoulders above Moffat's, you are remembering RTD's run incorrectly.
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Doctor Who: Time Of The Doctor |OT| 11's hour is over now... The clock is striking 12
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If you think RTD's run was somehow head and shoulders above Moffat's, you are remembering RTD's run incorrectly.
shanshan310
Member
And yet the doctor did because reasons!
Worthintendo
Member
Might have to check that out, I'm warming alot up to Hartnell.
It would be amazingly awesome in the downtime before the new series starts if we could do like weekly watches of classic Who, everyone watches one serial at a time and then we all talk about it and such.
Jest Chillin
Member
He had spent something like 800 years in the same body.. I'd expect him to age. War Doctor also appeared to have aged during the Time War. When 8 changes to War in Night of the Doctor we see a reflection of what looks like a younger Hurt than what we saw in Day of the Doctor.
I don't know about that, I did a Matt rewatch earlier in the month and expected it to last me until Christmas, but I ended up burning through them in two weeks!
Jest Chillin
Member
Maybe I'm just too emotionally invested in The Ponds.
Amy's appearance DESTROYED me.
I'm more concerned about that Barnable kid not aging much at all too. He went from kid to adult but in that time it looked like the Doctor aged extremely fast.
That wasn't Barnable, it was someone new. The Doctor's an old man and didn't realize/forgot that Barnable died centuries ago.
Barnable was the kid, not the adult.
The Doctor, in his old age, thought he was Barnable, but he tells the Doctor he isn't.
To be honest, I doubt that Moffat is very concerned with Time Lord aging or even how old the Doctor actually is. I'm pretty sure he's been inconsistent about it in his own run. In DOTD that line where 11 admits that he's not even sure if he's lying about his age is a bit of a Lampshade Hang.
He aged because the narrative called for it.
Jest Chillin
Member
Could be true. I took 11 not knowing his own age or if he was lying more as a reinforcement of the labeling of "The one who forgets," since it was covered in that scene. I also took it as a call back to his "dark" time period where just sat in the clouds for an unknown amount of time after the loss of The Ponds.
First, fuuuuuck BBCAmerica's commercial breaks. Never watching anything on that network again.
Second:
Xmas Specials:
Snowmen > Christmas Carol > Time of the Doctor > Voyage of the Damned > Runaway Bride > Next Doctor > Christmas Invasion > End of Time 1 > Doctor Witch Wardrobe
Regenerations:
Parting of the Ways > Time of the Doctor > End of Time 2 > Bad Wolf > End of Time 1
--
I think that if the 50th didn't happen this year, that Time of the Doctor would have been a two-parter. That, or the connection between "Time" and "Name" would have been more cohesive.
This being said, it was a great finish. On a scale of Kuwabara - 10, I'd say a solid 8.
I still don't get how Clara and the Doctor get out of his own timestream and retrieve the TARDIS after "Name".
Second:
Xmas Specials:
Snowmen > Christmas Carol > Time of the Doctor > Voyage of the Damned > Runaway Bride > Next Doctor > Christmas Invasion > End of Time 1 > Doctor Witch Wardrobe
Regenerations:
Parting of the Ways > Time of the Doctor > End of Time 2 > Bad Wolf > End of Time 1
--
I think that if the 50th didn't happen this year, that Time of the Doctor would have been a two-parter. That, or the connection between "Time" and "Name" would have been more cohesive.
This being said, it was a great finish. On a scale of Kuwabara - 10, I'd say a solid 8.
I still don't get how Clara and the Doctor get out of his own timestream and retrieve the TARDIS after "Name".
According to GB rumors this Christmas special was supposed to happen in 2014 if Matt Smith didn't leave. He was supposed to be searching for Gallifrey throughout series 8. That is why the Day of the Doctor had him saying he was going to be searching for it as his new destination, and then suddenly it is like "Bam! Found it."
Makes sense, especially since if memory serves it was initially announced Matt would be doing series 8 alongside Jenna.
Just watched. Enjoyed it. It was a good send off for Matt.
I wasn't a huge fan of how it spent so much time tying up the loose ends with the cracks and the Silence and whatnot. I guess it was nice that they realized that stuff was hanging, but it was such a awkward way to do it. And the magic regen death beams were pretty silly. It wasn't quite Jesus Doctor levels of ass pull plot resolution, but it was up there.
Beyond that, I enjoyed the general thrust of the plot and spending his last life for a single town was a nice Doctor-ey thing to do. Clara is really good at making me have emotions.
I wasn't a huge fan of how it spent so much time tying up the loose ends with the cracks and the Silence and whatnot. I guess it was nice that they realized that stuff was hanging, but it was such a awkward way to do it. And the magic regen death beams were pretty silly. It wasn't quite Jesus Doctor levels of ass pull plot resolution, but it was up there.
Beyond that, I enjoyed the general thrust of the plot and spending his last life for a single town was a nice Doctor-ey thing to do. Clara is really good at making me have emotions.
It's been established that regen energy has the potential to destroy (End of Time) so to hold in one's death until the very last second, I can see it being something bombastic. 9 just died so it wasn't a big bang, 10 held his death in until he said bye to everyone, and he exploded the TARDIS, 11 held it in for hundreds of years.
Exterminieren
Banned
Tasha Lem was in the Papal Mainframe, with God knows what amount of impossible futuristic tech to keep her young. The Doctor was in a pokey little village intentionally devoid of technology carving toys for children for nearly a millenium. I see no problem with this.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Thanks!
No because it was all part of the same arc. And now the arc is over.
They did three of them.
One for the season finale, one for the anniversary, and one for the Christmas special.
So no.
4 if you include the 8th doctors minisode. "The Night of the Doctor"
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Well, I rather did like how they tied together all of Moffat's run.
But they never really explained nor answered the Question. Instead, we get yet another shitty deus ex machina that makes utterly zero sense and turns what is an epic and fresh idea into a pile of coal.
But they never really explained nor answered the Question. Instead, we get yet another shitty deus ex machina that makes utterly zero sense and turns what is an epic and fresh idea into a pile of coal.
paradox121
Member
I still think Name of the Doctor is one of the most genius titles the show's had in a long time.
The 'of the Doctor' arc is pretty much a gear shift from one era of the show to the other. In retrospect it'd would've been nice if the three had transitioned a bit more smoothly from one to the other like Utopia to Sound of Drums but I still liked them. But it's basically just a sign of the show being wholly Doctor focused for a while.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The Question is "Doctor who?", broadcast by the Time Lords to the whole universe to make sure that they're linked to the right universe. If the Doctor replied with his name, the Time Lords would know it's the right one and they would come out of the time crack. The Doctor cannot lie to the Question because they put a truth field in place around the crack. However, in the end Clara pleaded them to just help him regardless of his real name.
Fun fact: the voice saying "Doctor who"? is voiced by the same dude who played the General in The Day of the Doctor. It's him behind the crack.
This is a show with titles like:
- The Evil of the Daleks
- The Seeds of Death
- Doctor Who and the Silurians
- Terror of the Autons
- Day of the Daleks
- Planet of the Daleks
- The Seeds of Doom
........ and so on....
So I think it's pretty in keeping. Also worth noting that thought he "X of the Y" format is almost tradition, Y had never been Doctor until this last run.
I'd like to know when the Time Lords make their call, weren't they suppose to be frozen in a moment of time after ala the pictures? Besides that, Rassilion was in charge and the rest of the council had agreed with his crazy ass plan to basically end everything to evolve. If these people were in charge still doubt they'd be going the path they are let alone send him a new regeneration cycle.
But then maybe it's been thousand or millions of years since then with the people of Galifrey realizing, yeah that plan was messed up. If they do want to return so bad and not be in a war their best action is to put themselves out of synch in time ala Davos did a few seasons back.
Considering the Time Lords were effectively making their last stand during the siege you got to figure they are pretty damn scared of Daleks at this point. Pity the Daleks are made to look like such rubbish.
But then maybe it's been thousand or millions of years since then with the people of Galifrey realizing, yeah that plan was messed up. If they do want to return so bad and not be in a war their best action is to put themselves out of synch in time ala Davos did a few seasons back.
Considering the Time Lords were effectively making their last stand during the siege you got to figure they are pretty damn scared of Daleks at this point. Pity the Daleks are made to look like such rubbish.
NekoFever
Member
You should see how they were scraping the barrel for "of the Daleks" episode names.
The Power of the Daleks
The Evil of the Daleks
Day of the Daleks
Planet of the Daleks
Death to the Daleks
Genesis of the Daleks
Destiny of the Daleks
Resurrection of the Daleks
Revelation of the Daleks
Remembrance of the Daleks
Evolution of the Daleks
Victory of the Daleks
I sort of agree, Matt's Smith time as the Doctor never really caught on with me. Felt like it became too silly if not inconsequential with what happened half the time, I liked the characters in it but everything felt so....lackluster. In the end I came to the conclusion that Moffat is a damn good writer but as a show runner he couldn't really pull it off. Sherlock being in the equation for him I got no doubt had an effect on the shows quality in the last season or two.
IMO they put too much shit (weeping angels, clara's family) into the Christmas Special and they had no time to develop the main story. It was pretty sad still - sad to see Matt go and the new doctor had ike 30 seconds!
And wouldn't usually villagers have the doctor witch burned after seconds?
And wouldn't usually villagers have the doctor witch burned after seconds?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
And they didn't even introduce the family members! Was that really Clara's dad? He's not played by the same actor as in Rings of Akhaten. And who is that blonde woman with him? Credits say "Linda", but we don't know if she is his new wife, girlfriend, sister, cousin or anything.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I know it's been said before, but Clara is such a non-character. The doctor could have done everything on his own (and did) and the episode would've been better for it. It seems like Moffat was told to have a young, hot female companion and he has absolutely no enthusiasm to write another role like that when he already had Amy Pond to fulfil that role.
Definitely agree that she's a complete non-entity, but given Moffat's history of revelling in writing that sort of character, especially when they're also sarcastic and flirty, it seems unlikely that this is the case to me. More likely it's just hard to fit plot for her in among all the other crazy shit he tried to do this year.
Man, I disliked Clara before it was cool to dislike Clara.
Seriously. Every time she's shown it's like her and the Doctor are these amazing friends. How she always understands him and knows how to help him. But I just don't feel it. So I just chalk it up that because of the library in JttCotT(heh) and going into his timestream in NotD she suddenly knows all there is to know about the hundreds and hundreds of years the Doctor's been around.
I dislike how she's always 'saving' him. A single tear followed by "...nothing." in DotD or 'Help him if you love him" in this. Meh. Donna would've been screaming at the crack telling them how shitty they should be feeling for having driven the Doctor in this.
Seriously. Every time she's shown it's like her and the Doctor are these amazing friends. How she always understands him and knows how to help him. But I just don't feel it. So I just chalk it up that because of the library in JttCotT(heh) and going into his timestream in NotD she suddenly knows all there is to know about the hundreds and hundreds of years the Doctor's been around.
I dislike how she's always 'saving' him. A single tear followed by "...nothing." in DotD or 'Help him if you love him" in this. Meh. Donna would've been screaming at the crack telling them how shitty they should be feeling for having driven the Doctor in this.
ScreenSplitter
Member
I have no interest in Clara's evil stepmum or the Nan from Benidorm. Like, less than no interest. I have negative amounts of interest.
APZonerunner
Member
Well, it doesn't tally entirely. The reason it's so explosive in The End of Time is actually due to his body ejecting the dangerous radiation he'd absorbed in the booth. It reacts with the regeneration energy, like gas and an open flame, and when it's expelled from his body it causes explosions and fire. That's RTD's explanation from one of the annuals, so while it was never in the show it is straight from the source in a BBC-sanctioned/published book.
That said, you can put this down to it being the start of a new cycle, or something.
Even I found this weird/silly. I was trying to work out what the hell was going on and who he was. Why recast that role? Why not write around it? Why not have her having dinner with the kids and their family at Christmas instead, with her nan over to visit? So weird. I do miss Jackie-style family, though.
Exterminieren
Banned
In fairness, the actor who played Clara's dad in The Rings of Akhaten was only two years older than Jenna Coleman. I can understand the recast.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Well, he can choose to "use" regeneration energy in different ways can't he? He can use it to regrow himself (Christmas Invasion), give life to others (Angels Take Manhattan). In Parting of the Ways, he just has no cause to use it destructively. But yeah, radiation/new life.
And I think speaking of regeneration it's very clear the regeneration limit was a very recent idea in Moffatt's mind, if we take into account Eccleston originally intended for the 50th over the War Doctor and the various references to regeneration in Smith's run (Let's Kill Hitler, Impossible Astronaut, Angels Take Manhattan).
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Wait, Eccleston was supposed to be regen #50?
ScreenSplitter
Member
Well, Moffat originally had him in mind for the role Hurt would eventually play. But then of course, that's not a new or hidden incarnation. Given that we know Hurt was contacted for the role very last minute, it's not hard to put two & two together.
I wonder if we're ever going to hear anything about the Valeyard again. If he shows up again, you'd expect him to turn up near the beginning of Capaldi's run, because he's supposed to be created when Smith regenerated into Capaldi. He'd make for an interesting main villain for his first series.
Of course, Big Finish is also releasing 'Trial of the Valeyard' in december 2014, a 6th Doctor story which is supposed to reveal exactly who or what the Valeyard is (with some early reviews hinting that he might not be a version of the Doctor at all). Whatever that reveal will be, it'd be weird for the BBC to allow Big Finish to release a big reveal story like that if they're also going to touch on the subject in the tv show.
Edit: Looking at the Big Finish site, apparently it's aleady released as a bonus for customers who bought one of the subscriptions this year. It'll be on sale for the rest of us in december 2014. Perhaps someone here already listened to it and can tell us if they really reveal something and if it does something with the Smith/Capaldi-era of the show.
Of course, Big Finish is also releasing 'Trial of the Valeyard' in december 2014, a 6th Doctor story which is supposed to reveal exactly who or what the Valeyard is (with some early reviews hinting that he might not be a version of the Doctor at all). Whatever that reveal will be, it'd be weird for the BBC to allow Big Finish to release a big reveal story like that if they're also going to touch on the subject in the tv show.
Edit: Looking at the Big Finish site, apparently it's aleady released as a bonus for customers who bought one of the subscriptions this year. It'll be on sale for the rest of us in december 2014. Perhaps someone here already listened to it and can tell us if they really reveal something and if it does something with the Smith/Capaldi-era of the show.
It'd also depend on when exactly during that time she was converted into a Dalek.
Wasn't Rassilon being electrocuted by the Master last time we saw him? He may not even be still alive.
APZonerunner
Member
It's an irrelevant plot stand now, though. The time when they could've used it has passed.
I rather like this little thing, though - the regeneration between penultimate (Tennant) and last (Smith) is - if you think about it - the meta-crisis Doctor, who commits genocide, something even the War Doctor didn't in fact do - so he isn't exactly all above board and all that. He's your Valeyard. I guess. History changed. That works if you take them to mean between his final and last-but-one bodies, anyway.
No, he'd be between Tenant-post-Handy and Smith.
Ah, yes, I thought the Valeyard was created after Smith, not before him. It's been ages since I saw Trial, so I don't remember all of it (I don't think I ever really understood all of it).
Oh well, Big Finish is probably a better home for the Valeyard than the TV show. He's the only enemy that feels really iconic for the 6th Doctor, so it'll probably be more fun to have them pitched against each other.
I still don't like the idea of metacrisis Tennant counting as an actual regeneration though, but mostly because I thought that story was incredibly stupid. It makes sense to count him, I guess, and it doesn't really matter in the end, so I guess I should act my age and ignore it. Oh well.
In other news, I guess my second watch-through of the entire series really is kind of, sort of, happening. I'm at the third season now, just finished up Galaxy Four. I'm enjoying it a lot more the second time around actually, now that I have the context of the entire show to watch these things in. I'll probably keep going until Tenth Planet, but life has gotten so busy recently that I'll stop there for a bit. Maybe I'll start the second Doctor's run in a couple of months or something.
Man, this show.
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