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Doctor Who: Time Of The Doctor |OT| 11's hour is over now... The clock is striking 12

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They aren't really production choices, though. Caitlin Blackwood is a teenager now- in fact, she's almost as tall as Gillan herself!

KG had a shaven head for Guardians of the Galaxy, so the wig was a necessity.

Sure, but that's exactly what I mean by "production choices". If you can't use Caitlyn, you either make damn sure the replacement can't be identified or you don't use Young Amelia. Likewise with Karen, you either make sure she looks like the Amy we know, or you don't use Amy at all.

I know, it's totally nitpicky fanboy stuff. Jumped out at me, though.
 
In regards to the regeneration being quick, I see it as:

When he was on the Bell Tower and given the new set of regens, he actually regenerated then, but held off changing faces / the final part of it until he could see Clara again.
After that, he finishes it up and changes completely.

Ten did it by prolonging his for his around the world in 80 days trip to see everyone, its just Eleven did it a different way this time.
 
In regards to the regeneration being quick, I see it as:

When he was on the Bell Tower and given the new set of regens, he actually regenerated then, but held off changing faces / the final part of it until he could see Clara again.
After that, he finishes it up and changes completely.

Ten did it by prolonging his for his around the world in 80 days trip to see everyone, its just Eleven did it a different way this time.

Yeah, every regeneration is different. It's only since the reboot that it became an exclusive light-show. But they can basically do what they want in terms of regeneration scenes and pretty much get away with it, in lore terms at least.
 
In regards to the regeneration being quick, I see it as:

When he was on the Bell Tower and given the new set of regens, he actually regenerated then, but held off changing faces / the final part of it until he could see Clara again.
After that, he finishes it up and changes completely.

Ten did it by prolonging his for his around the world in 80 days trip to see everyone, its just Eleven did it a different way this time.
Yeah of course the bell tower scene is the actual regeneration, he says in the TARDIS that it's taking longer than usual because it's a new set of regenerations effectively. And then he warns her that it's coming and it happens, it's not really quick at all.
 
I fundamentally don't see The Time of the Doctor putting off the casual any more than The End of Time did, really. Certainly there's nothing here that quite reaches the same level of inelegance that the Master info-dump on the Oodsphere did.

We'll see a good rating for Capaldi's first episode, much as we did for The Eleventh Hour. Beyond that... well, it's simply too early to say. The Who audience has been resolutely unaffected by poor episodes for a long time, so I don't think this'll change that.
 
I fundamentally don't see The Time of the Doctor putting off the casual any more than The End of Time did, really. Certainly there's nothing here that quite reaches the same level of inelegance that the Master info-dump on the Oodsphere did.

We'll see a good rating for Capaldi's first episode, much as we did for The Eleventh Hour. Beyond that... well, it's simply too early to say. The Who audience has been resolutely unaffected by poor episodes for a long time, so I don't think this'll change that.

Well, it doesn't have an info-dump at all this time, which obviously if you don't watch religiously isn't preferable. It probably could've used a few more flashbacks and things. That Master info dump is inelegant, but it also tells you everything you need to know and is over in ninety seconds. There is a difference, though, which is that The Master infodump is really simple - it's "There was one other surviving Time Lord / He's mental / He stole the TARDIS and became Prime Minister / We fought, his wife killed him / I burned his body / But a mysterious ring survived" and that is quite literally it. There's a lot, lot more this episode stands on, structurally, and so it's impossible to do that info dump. So it just keeps things simple. That's a positive and a negative both.

We were obviously all fine, but my Uncle (watched with family) said "This is why we stopped following, it assumes too much knowledge," and he used to be a more invested follower, and I was then bombarded with questions later on. I just hope in general we ease off the continuity-heavy gas pedal now for a series or two. Moffat had a very specific set of circumstances in Series 5, but it'd be good to see him strip things right back next year with Capaldi. In general, though, I do think there's a case for keeping the Christmas episodes very isolated purely because they're great advertisements for the show to a different audience. That's why A Christmas Carol is almost like the perfect one, because they even do away with the regular companion really. That and Voyage are the most stripped-back Doctor Whos ever.
 
But...I didn't like Capaldi as much as I had hoped. I really thought I would love him, but here it just kinda seemed like he was..."acting" like Matt Smith? I dunno, it was real. It didn't feel like he was THE Doctor. Then again, this is my first live regeneration so I gotta ask: does it ALWAYS feel like that?
When 9 became 10 it didn't feel like he was trying to act the same, but there was a certain "who is this unfamiliar skinny freckled guy?" weirdness that I felt.

Well, it doesn't have an info-dump at all this time, which obviously if you don't watch religiously isn't preferable. It probably could've used a few more flashbacks and things. That Master info dump is inelegant, but it also tells you everything you need to know and is over in ninety seconds. There is a difference, though, which is that The Master infodump is really simple - it's "There was one other surviving Time Lord / He's mental / He stole the TARDIS and became Prime Minister / We fought, his wife killed him / I burned his body / But a mysterious ring survived" and that is quite literally it. There's a lot, lot more this episode stands on, structurally, and so it's impossible to do that info dump. So it just keeps things simple. That's a positive and a negative both.

We were obviously all fine, but my Uncle (watched with family) said "This is why we stopped following, it assumes too much knowledge," and he used to be a more invested follower, and I was then bombarded with questions later on. I just hope in general we ease off the continuity-heavy gas pedal now for a series or two. Moffat had a very specific set of circumstances in Series 5, but it'd be good to see him strip things right back next year with Capaldi. In general, though, I do think there's a case for keeping the Christmas episodes very isolated purely because they're great advertisements for the show to a different audience. That's why A Christmas Carol is almost like the perfect one, because they even do away with the regular companion really. That and Voyage are the most stripped-back Doctor Whos ever.

Good point, and I feel like this has been a big change from earlier seasons. Everything is connected, and everything references everything else. I was watching with my family too, and I honestly felt a bit embarrassed having asked them to sit down to watch something they hadn't seen a lot of since Tennant. There was so much assumed knowledge they grew restless.
 
Incidentally, I don't think Day of the Doctor, which is equally lore-heavy, has a problem. It's very often about execution. You could show somebody Day as their very first episode (and indeed, wasn't there a guy a few pages ago who watched Day as his first episode and then came in this thread yesterday and said "is the quality always this uneven?!" (Yes, mate, it is.) That's my point.

Then again, Day had an easier time of it - it had half an hour more and I think the concept of the Time War and of the Time Lords being dead has entered the national consciousness, whereas things like the stuff this episode had to deal with haven't. So it's tough.
 
Incidentally, I don't think Day of the Doctor, which is equally lore-heavy, has a problem. It's very often about execution. You could show somebody Day as their very first episode (and indeed, wasn't there a guy a few pages ago who watched Day as his first episode and then came in this thread yesterday and said "is the quality always this uneven?!" (Yes, mate, it is.) That's my point.

Then again, Day had an easier time of it - it had half an hour more and I think the concept of the Time War and of the Time Lords being dead has entered the national consciousness, whereas things like the stuff this episode had to deal with haven't. So it's tough.

Also I think the concepts dealt in this episode are a lot more...trivial than the Time War. The average viewer doesn't care who blew up the TARDIS. The vast majority probably didn't even know about it. I mean, up until the point people started clamoring for it to be answered, even I thought it had been previously resolved in an offhand comment. Like I said yesterday, I'm glad this stuff has been answered but other than for a bunch of fanatic moaners it didn't really need to be.

And for anyone who didn't cry yesterday try this: Behind the scenes video. Skip to about 8 mins in where Matt does his final readthrough. So damn sad.
 
I still get feels when I think of that little moan Clara does right before he regenerates. When she's reaching for his hand and is basically thinking "I won't let you go".

I know I've talked about it a lot here, but Clara's obviously upgraded relationship with the doctor in the last couple episodes is going to be painful to watch during the Capaldi era. It really feels like the Rose/Nine/Ten thing, except instead of getting an even better looking guy with personality, she's getting a kooky father figure. Poor girl. :p
 
Also I think the concepts dealt in this episode are a lot more...trivial than the Time War. The average viewer doesn't care who blew up the TARDIS. The vast majority probably didn't even know about it. I mean, up until the point people started clamoring for it to be answered, even I thought it had been previously resolved in an offhand comment. Like I said yesterday, I'm glad this stuff has been answered but other than for a bunch of fanatic moaners it didn't really need to be.

And for anyone who didn't cry yesterday try this: Behind the scenes video. Skip to about 8 mins in where Matt does his final readthrough. So damn sad.

Oh man, I was hoping we would get some behind the scenes stuff of Capaldi. They didn't even show him. Maybe to keep the focus on Matt? I'm sure we'll see the behind the scenes of Capaldi sometime soon.
 
I still get feels when I think of that little moan Clara does right before he regenerates. When she's reaching for his hand and is basically thinking "I won't let you go".

Right? Jenna was really great in this ep, I'm kinda annoyed with the Amy cameo for undermining her at the end. Seeing Amy was a nice full-circle thing but could have been timed better.

Also, it absolutely killed me when they brought back Four Knocks.

Yep. Four Knocks followed by Trenzalore was a 1-2 punch of feels for me.
 
I fundamentally don't see The Time of the Doctor putting off the casual any more than The End of Time did, really. Certainly there's nothing here that quite reaches the same level of inelegance that the Master info-dump on the Oodsphere did.

We'll see a good rating for Capaldi's first episode, much as we did for The Eleventh Hour. Beyond that... well, it's simply too early to say. The Who audience has been resolutely unaffected by poor episodes for a long time, so I don't think this'll change that.

The problem with it putting off casual audiences comes more with just how much of the episode relied on random continuity references to past shows, and how much the story assumes you've seen all of them. All of the stuff with them talking about the exploding TARDIS and the cracks in the universe and everything really relies on people being familiar with those stories. There's absolutely no attempt to make the story stand on its own or be something that a regular person can enjoy.
 
Also Moffat needs to STOP MAKING UP CHARACTERS THAT I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT AND THEN MAKING EVERYONE IN THE SHOW CARE ABOUT THEM AS A WAY OF TRYING TO MAKE ME CARE ABOUT THEM

Handles was completely pointless.
 
Also Moffat needs to STOP MAKING UP CHARACTERS THAT I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT AND THEN MAKING EVERYONE IN THE SHOW CARE ABOUT THEM AS A WAY OF TRYING TO MAKE ME CARE ABOUT THEM

Handles was completely pointless.

So Clara then?

Seriously though, more attention needs to be given to her character because Jenna Coleman is doing such a great job acting, it's such a shame that Clara's role seems to be just being the pretty face next to the Doctor. Hopefully with the clean slate for the Twelfth Doctor Moffat actually does something with her character. The Eleventh was very clearly the Amy Pond show.
 
Handles was great, I would have loved to see more of him.

There were a handful of small things that could have been excised from this ep to give it more breathing room, but Handles was a nice addition to the story.
 
So Clara then?

Seriously though, more attention needs to be given to her character because Jenna Coleman is doing such a great job acting, it's such a shame that Clara's role seems to be just being the pretty face next to the Doctor. Hopefully with the clean slate for the Twelfth Doctor Moffat actually does something with her character. The Eleventh was very clearly the Amy Pond show.

50p bet says that we get a Mickey 2.0 for her at the start of S8, rightly or wrongly
 
Also Moffat needs to STOP MAKING UP CHARACTERS THAT I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT AND THEN MAKING EVERYONE IN THE SHOW CARE ABOUT THEM AS A WAY OF TRYING TO MAKE ME CARE ABOUT THEM

Handles was completely pointless.

This is basically every character Moffat has ever invented. He seems incapable of actually creating a character who people can have reasons to care about, because everyone has to be about big mysteries or just be a quirky joke character.
 
Also Moffat needs to STOP MAKING UP CHARACTERS THAT I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT AND THEN MAKING EVERYONE IN THE SHOW CARE ABOUT THEM AS A WAY OF TRYING TO MAKE ME CARE ABOUT THEM

Handles was completely pointless.

Handles was a bro. GET OUT.
 
Also Moffat needs to STOP MAKING UP CHARACTERS THAT I HAVE NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT AND THEN MAKING EVERYONE IN THE SHOW CARE ABOUT THEM AS A WAY OF TRYING TO MAKE ME CARE ABOUT THEM

Handles was completely pointless.

Or the head of the church lady. Keep adding in new characters who are super important but are new and nothing but a way to make the plot "work"
 
I'm really gonna miss Matt and it was a beautiful delivery before his regeneration. Dem heartstrings. Haven't seen anything of this last season except this and Day of the Doctor, so I'm not really familiar with Clara but I hope she stays on as companion for a while as I like her already.
 
I can understand (though don't necessarily share) complaints about Moffat thrusting importance onto new characters right away. At the same time, I find a lot of these guys more interesting and memorable right off the bat than the vast majority of RTD's one-offs, so eh.
 
I can understand (though don't necessarily share) complaints about Moffat thrusting importance onto new characters right away. At the same time, I find a lot of these guys more interesting and memorable right off the bat than the vast majority of RTD's one-offs, so eh.

I mostly agree with you. Outside of Captain Jack, pretty much all of RTD's new characters excluding companions are pretty forgettable.
 
I share the hope that Clara gets developed more with Capaldi. Her acting is good, but her character just doesn't feel compelling or very interesting to me.
 
So Clara then?

Seriously though, more attention needs to be given to her character because Jenna Coleman is doing such a great job acting, it's such a shame that Clara's role seems to be just being the pretty face next to the Doctor. Hopefully with the clean slate for the Twelfth Doctor Moffat actually does something with her character. The Eleventh was very clearly the Amy Pond show.

Did anyone else find it really, really awkward that Clara was supposed to be the kind of emotional lynchpin to the episode and then right before the Doctor regenerates he's fantasizing/seeing Amy Pond. It's like all of a sudden he goes from I will always remember this version of me because of you Clara! to yeah, yeah, whatever impossible girl I actually really love Pond more than you. Also, what about Rory? They could have at least mentioned him considering he protected Pond for pretty much all time until he was offed.

Still a pretty good episode though. I'm glad it didn't get too sappy and melodramatic at the end.
 
Did anyone else find it really, really awkward that Clara was supposed to be the kind of emotional lynchpin to the episode and then right before the Doctor regenerates he's fantasizing/seeing Amy Pond. It's like all of a sudden he goes from I will always remember this version of me because of you Clara! to yeah, yeah, whatever impossible girl I actually really love Pond more than you. Also, what about Rory? They could have at least mentioned him considering he protected Pond for pretty much all time until he was offed.

Still a pretty good episode though. I'm glad it didn't get too sappy and melodramatic at the end.
This is my biggest and really only complaint, but it has to do with the structure of S7, which mostly felt like stalling for the fiftieth.
 
I actually felt really awful when Handles died. Equally awful when the Doctor mistakes one boy as the boy he returned for hundreds of years back, when that boy is probably long long dead. :(

Indeed, he should come back!

Also, I've heard that
Tasha Lem was River Song.
Someone explain please?

It's not been proven yet, but there are some hints of it. I personally still don't think she is.
 
So it seems like we got most of the Moffat S5-S7 plot points wrapped up for better or worse, depending on your point of view. But to my knowledge, the one that's absolutely bugged me the most is still unresolved.

Who was the "shop girl" who gave Clara the phone number to the TARDIS in The Bells of St. John?

Did I miss it? Was it skipped (possibly)? Or is it going to be a S8 plot point?

Seriously, that bugs the shit out of me. I have to know who gave her that number.
 
I mostly agree with you. Outside of Captain Jack, pretty much all of RTD's new characters excluding companions are pretty forgettable.

And of course you have to remember who actually wrote the amazing episodes that introduced Jack so successfully. Moffat got mad game over RTD.

Going to rewatch it later when I'm a bit less drunk, whatever you think about the quality of the episode you have to admit it actually resolved all the loose threads from Matt's run pretty damn well.

3rd best Christmas Special of NewWho after Christmas Carol and Christmas Invasion.
 
So it seems like we got most of the Moffat S5-S7 plot points wrapped up for better or worse, depending on your point of view. But to my knowledge, the one that's absolutely bugged me the most is still unresolved.

Who was the "shop girl" who gave Clara the phone number to the TARDIS in The Bells of St. John?

Did I miss it? Was it skipped (possibly)? Or is it going to be a S8 plot point?

Seriously, that bugs the shit out of me. I have to know who gave her that number.

If you're BrokenFiction, does that mean you like Anderson more than Sherlock or something?

Also, I hope it becomes something of a plot point so that Series 7 and 8 mesh a bit more. It hasn't been answered yet though. Im just gonna guess River and leave it at that.
 
The thing that pisses me off is how moffat has made it so the war doctor and Tennant each had an extra regeneration so the number of the doctor is now out of sync with the regeneration number. The ocd in me is really bugged by that and it is actually really grating me.
 
Indeed, he should come back!

Also, I've heard that
Tasha Lem was River Song.
Someone explain please?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=94838026&postcount=1264

The thing that pisses me off is how moffat has made it so the war doctor and Tennant each had an extra regeneration so the number of the doctor is now out of sync with the regeneration number. The ocd in me is really bugged by that and it is actually really grating me.

It's not Moffat's fault if you have ocd :/
 
So it seems like we got most of the Moffat S5-S7 plot points wrapped up for better or worse, depending on your point of view. But to my knowledge, the one that's absolutely bugged me the most is still unresolved.

Who was the "shop girl" who gave Clara the phone number to the TARDIS in The Bells of St. John?

Did I miss it? Was it skipped (possibly)? Or is it going to be a S8 plot point?

Seriously, that bugs the shit out of me. I have to know who gave her that number.

I thought there were fairly heavy hints that it was River Song?
 
Does it not annoy you? Something so simple has been complicated unnecessary. I can't get on with new who at all :(

It is entirely irrelevant at this point. The 13 regeneration limit has been surpassed/reset to some degree. Maybe the Doctor was given enough regeneration energy for just this one, maybe he has a new thirteen, maybe he has three. It's pointless to get upset about numbering when it is now entirely up in the air.

Edit: also, if Tennant actually used a regeneration when he healed himself from the dalek shot and didn't have to change, why didn't he do the same before turning into Smith when moaning that he didn't want to go?
Because there was nowhere else for the regeneration energy to go, unlike when he had another piece of Time Lord biology handy.
 
Does it not annoy you? Something so simple has been complicated unnecessary. I can't get on with new who at all :(
Well for intents and purposes the Eleventh Doctor is still called the Eleventh Doctor. I'm sure Capaldi will either be referred to as the Twelth and/or not be referred to by a number at all, so it's not particularly annoying IMO.
 
It is entirely irrelevant at this point. The 13 regeneration limit has been surpassed/reset to some degree. Maybe the Doctor was given enough regeneration energy for just this one, maybe he has a new thirteen, maybe he has three. It's pointless to get upset about numbering when it is now entirely up in the air.


Because there was nowhere else for the regeneration energy to go, unlike when he had another piece of Time Lord biology handy.
Makes sense I suppose, thanks. I watched some tom baker who the other day, it was just so fun. Baker is easily my fave incarnation.
 
Actually writing the Matt Smith's hair loss into the show was both absurd and inspired. Though getting a whole new regeneration cycle via some wispy glowing vapors seemed a little anticlimactic, I did like the "quick change" regeneration effect itself. Felt like a good exit story all things considered.
 
When the regeneration is taxing on the body, he will have temporary amnesia. It happened with 7 into 8.

Regeneration is very unstable as it is, look at 9 into 10...he was asleep for hours. 5 into 6...he went crazy.

I would highly expect it to be temporary.

Yes, but those were all regular regenerations 1-12. Now the writers (for better or worse) have a whole new batch of 12 to work with AND given how they've come about, can add in all sorts of nonsense because 'oh it's not like a normal regeneration'.

----
Does it though? Who's to say that he wont meet his final end in Trenzalore in the future, or that's where he puts his grave

Maybe the people of Trenzalore put something there in honour of 11 and his 'death' and it spawns from that? They didn't see him to into Capaldi after all.
 
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