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[sublimit]

I don't have a problem with DLC packs that offer content to those that don't want to bother unlocking it the traditional way if everything else is kept exactly the same.
BUT
if they are going to make it more harder and longer to unlock the content (give you less in-game money for winning races,remove prize cars or the ability to sell them) then that is a seriously fucked up model and it's basically the developer trying to fuck his customer who has already paid 50 fucking euros for his game.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Very simple fix for this. Vote with your wallet. Don't buy this shit. If enough don't then developers and publishers will get the hint. It's been proven it works. We've certainly proven that can work the last several months.

We need to let them know why we're not buying it too, else the franchise might just be straight up 'retired', like with Dead Space.

If sales if Forza 5 are significantly below expectations and they get half a million tweets from people saying "I'm a fan of Forza but I'm not buying Forza 5 because of the inclusion of pay to win mechanics", they can't ignore that. Social media is the strongest tool on our side to stand against or stamp out shit like this.

 

[Steroyd]

Wait, you don't get prized cars for winning races?

I heard GT6 is doing something similar with selling credits, I'll wait and see if they tailored the game's progress around this shifty monetization bullshit before I spend money on the game, I'm already not happy that GT6 is £50 on the PSN store when Sony first party games are usually £40.

 

[ironcreed]

"It's a problem exacerbated by Forza Motorsport 5's drip-feed of cars as part of a $50 season pass, a number of which are being reintroduced from earlier games. And even when you've bought them as DLC, in order to own them fully in the game they have to be purchased using in-game currency - or, of course, by pumping in a little extra money of your own."

I still want to play the base game, but this shit just makes me sick to my stomach. The free to play model does not belong anywhere near full priced games. Absolutely no shame.

I mean hell, $500 for the console, $60 for the game that is designed around microtransactions and then a $50.00 season pass for cars that will also be designed around microtransactions. Oh, then there is the track packs coming later. Do they honestly think that everyone who buys the game is loaded with that kind of expendable income? Get the fuck out of here with this kind of greed and just give people the game they paid for with a normal reward system. Good god.

 

[Curufinwe]

$60 to play online too. So $670 for the total Forza 5 experience.

 

[The Technomancer]

I was watching the Ryse QuickLook on GB and I was amazed when they pulled up the microtransaction page and it was all like a F2P game down to buying virtual gold with real money instead of just buying the upgrades

This is Pay2Pay2Play. What the fuck

 

[GraveRobberX]

This is Pay2Pay2Play. What the fuck

We can go Deeper

*Inception Horn*

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I was watching the Ryse QuickLook on GB and I was amazed when they pulled up the microtransaction page and it was all like a F2P game down to buying virtual gold with real money instead of just buying the upgrades

This is Pay2Pay2Play. What the fuck

Ryse has it too?

Does anyone know if this is an Xbone-phenomena, or if it has spread to PS4 games as well?

 

[chickdigger802]

Ryse has it too?

Does anyone know if this is an Xbone-phenomena, or if it has spread to PS4 games as well?

Gt6 has it. Gt7 will probably too!

 

[Bedlam]

Ryse has it too?

Does anyone know if this is an Xbone-phenomena, or if it has spread to PS4 games as well?

Well, supposedly GT6 is going to do similar pay2pay2play stuff. And third party publishers are doing it, too. AC4 has "timesaver" microtransactions although I don't know how much those influenced the gameplay since Ubisoft open-world games have devolved into tedious grinding and work long before that stuff was included.

 

[sublimit]

Gt6 has it. Gt7 will probably too!

Is there any official description of GT6's monetization?

 

[Xater]

That's a great title for an article.
And a scary, day-one reflection of Microsoft raw and unashamed GREED.
As if they don't have enough cash.

Hey they had to reverse their other greedy policies. Gotta make that money back somewhere else!

 

[NoirVisage]

Rather dirty. Some reviewers picked up on this stuff, alerted the readers and marked the game down accordingly, but many did not - pretty embarrassing journalism.

They don't have to pay for it, why should something that doesn't effect their enjoyment of the game be marked against said game?

 

[Bedlam]

They don't have to pay for it, why should something that doesn't effect their enjoyment of the game be marked against said game?

It's an issue that should be taken into account when it influenced the design of the game mechanics.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

We can go Deeper

*Inception Horn*

Pay2NotPlayWhatYouPaidFor

 

[sublimit]

They don't have to pay for it, why should something that doesn't effect their enjoyment of the game be marked against said game?

You have to pay an extra 60$ for online alone.Isn't this something that these so-called "journalists" have to report?

 

[QaaQer]

Whales don't care.

Thats not true. A couple of summers ago I was walking by Walmart and heard some employees on a smoke break. One middle aged woman was kind of upset because her 'husband was going to kill her' because there was several hundred dollars of facebook game stuff on her credit card. Some whales have a lot of regret.

 

[Polioliolio]

Where the hell is kotaku when you need them?

Do they only care about game cleavage, or are they going to do the right thing and get on this shit, because it's the heaviest story in gaming right now, and I'm getting angry none of the journalists aren't speaking up about it.

 

[erawsd]

I still want to play the base game, but this shit just makes me sick to my stomach. The free to play model does not belong anywhere near full priced games. Absolutely no shame.

I mean hell, $500 for the console, $60 for the game that is designed around microtransactions and then a $50.00 season pass for cars that will also be designed around microtransactions. Oh, then there is the track packs coming later. Do they honestly think that everyone who buys the game is loaded with that kind of expendable income? Get the fuck out of here with this kind of greed and just give people the game they paid for with a normal reward system. Good god.

I'm sure they know only a small percentage of the fan base will buy into the stuff and thats all they need.

iOS works the same way. Over 70% of the people playing a lot of the big F2P games will never spend a dime on them. 15-20% will spend less than a few a dollars. Its the remaining 10% that ruins it for everyone else because they are fuckin insane people that are either sick with addiction and/or have lots of disposable income that they are spending hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on these games.

 

[crazygambit]

Is that a DLC pack that you then have to pay in-game credit to access?

It doesn't explain it very well in the article.


Edit:

Checked the PSBlog, sounds like you buy in-game credit. I'm surprised Polyphony agreed to that. Buying car packs that are locked away behind in-game credit is worse.

What do,you mean worse? Isn't Forza doing the same? Do they sell in game credits in GT6?

 

[QaaQer]

It's an issue that should be taken into account when it influenced the design of the game mechanics.

here is a good explanation:

I'm always amazed when someone claims that these kinds of microtransactions don't affect design or gameplay at all, and you can ignore them and have no less lovely an experience than you would have had if this predatory business model had never reared its ugly head.

Sure, right: the designers don't design for microtransactions at all. They don't build in any incentives to spend more money. They tweak progression just perfectly so that the rate at which you acquire new stuff is just perfect, and it wouldn't be any more fun to get stuff faster. They're totally optional, guys! BTW, would any of you gentleman like to buy one of the many fine bridges I have for sale?

There is no such thing as a game with microtransactions whose design is not tainted by them. There is no such thing. Every game with microtransactions builds in incentives to spend more money; every game with microtransactions is designed to ensure that the optimal experience is one in which the publisher gets more of your money. It's just that it's acceptable in games which are free up front because hey, they're free up front. But in a $60 retail game? Come on.

"Pay so that you don't have to play" microtransactions are particularly odious, because they reveal the underlying bad design of any game they're in. If I'm paying so that I don't have to play the game, what does that say about the minute to minute gameplay? It says it's not fun. It says it's a slog, something negative, something I endure rather than enjoy so that I can get the arbitrary rewards I have been conditioned to want. It says that the game has little to offer besides a skinner box, at least past a certain number of hours.

Can you imagine if Super Mario 3D World had microtransactions that allowed you to buy green stars for $1, so that you can get out of the chore of actually playing the levels? Would anyone buy that? Of course not, because playing the level to get the stars is the game, and it's extremely fun. If I'm paying for cars in a racing game because, man, I don't want to race for one more hour, what does that say? It says that the moment-to-moment gameplay is not fun, at least after a certain number of hours, and it says that the game was designed so that I would not acquire cars as fast as I want to, so that I would rather spend real money to get something than actually play the game I already paid $60 for.

 

[jmls1121]

I still want to play the base game, but this shit just makes me sick to my stomach. The free to play model does not belong anywhere near full priced games. Absolutely no shame.

I mean hell, $500 for the console, $60 for the game that is designed around microtransactions and then a $50.00 season pass for cars that will also be designed around microtransactions. Oh, then there is the track packs coming later. Do they honestly think that everyone who buys the game is loaded with that kind of expendable income? Get the fuck out of here with this kind of greed and just give people the game they paid for with a normal reward system. Good god.

This sums it up nicely. How disgusting.

This kind of shit is exactly why I have been Nintedo/PC over the last gen and now this gen.

 

[DieH@rd]

Wait, so if you buy DLC cars they aren't unlocked from the moment you purchase them! WTF!?!?

Yeah.... cars are just added to the ingame store where you can purchase them for ingame credits. ~_~

 

[Zach]

This is such a shame. I've bought every Forza game for my step-dad but I refuse to support this kind of thing. If he ever asks about the new Forza, I'll be sure to tell him why he shouldn't want it.

 

[sublimit]

This is such a shame. I've bought every Forza game for my step-dad but I refuse to support this kind of thing. If he ever asks about the new Forza, I'll be sure to tell him why he shouldn't want it.

I wonder how many people will buy the game not knowing about this stuff.

 

[mrklaw]

Wait, so if you buy DLC cars they aren't unlocked from the moment you purchase them! WTF!?!?

No, but you can buy the instantly with the in-game credits you'll have earned. And don't worry, if you don't quite have enough in-game credits, you can buy some more for only a few dollars.

 

[Shane]

How did the reviews not reflect this shit?

This is a new area and one that will divide reviewers soon (I.e. Whether the discussion of costs should enter a review; currently it's left to the readers discretion).

But when it's directly affecting game design/enjoyability it should be taken into account. But then the readership might attack the reviewer/site for being harsh on 'optional' content. It's a double edged risk sword and evidently less people were pissed that it wasn't mentioned.

I'm done with games with this model. Time is more important than cost to me and these F2P elements chew through the little recreational time I have in a day.

 

[QaaQer]

This is a new area and one that will divide reviewers soon (I.e. Whether the discussion of costs should enter a review; currently it's left to the readers discretion).

But when it's directly affecting game design/enjoyability it should be taken into account. But then the readership might attack the reviewer/site for being harsh on 'optional' content. It's a double edged risk sword and evidently less people were pissed that it wasn't mentioned.

I'm done with games with this model. Time is more important than cost to me and these F2P elements chew through the little recreational time I have in a day.

It is perverse that they are charging customers in order to save the customer time. It exposes the underlying system of many games, the play for reward dopamine drip thing and ruins it.

 

[phosphor112]

PD is putting this shit into GT6 as well and I'm not happy about it there either.

The game economy hasn't changed though. AFAIK, you also get prize cars. Those micro transactions are only for unlocking things faster.

 

[Solal]

Guys, I don't want to sound pushy but we are already discussing all this in this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719935

AND we are trying to be vocal and make noise about it.

Please join that thread and, if you are kind enough, help us denounce this shit.

 

[CecilRousso]

Yeah.... cars are just added to the ingame store where you can purchase them for ingame credits. ~_~

Please tell me that you're joking?!

You can't get the car at all if you don't buy the DLC, and even then they encourage you to spend more to buy it? Anyone who accepts that needs to have their credit card taken away for their own good.

You either put the car in the game and let people work to get it, or you let them buy them. You don't f*cking do both. Do they like hate their customers or what?

 

[Orca]

The article is wrong about Forza 5.

You easily get so much money his time around. I've been able to buy the cars I need for the three series I've beat so far, yet save up enough for an Aerial Atom V8 and still have loads of cash left over. The cars are cheaper than in Forza 3/4 and the rewards higher.

It's true MS pimps the tokens at you, but you don't need them. It's really easy to buy the cars you want in Forza 5. All it takes is playing it to see. And I am really playing with it and swimming in credits.

Everyone ignores the one guy in the thread that's actually played the game.

I still don't understand why people are acting like tokens to unlock cars are new to the franchise.

 

[Majukun]

people should just start voting with their wallets.
buy such games and then complain is what brought DLC as a standard practice in the first place.

 

[twofold]

I'm sure they know only a small percentage of the fan base will buy into the stuff and thats all they need.

iOS works the same way. Over 70% of the people playing a lot of the big F2P games will never spend a dime on them. 15-20% will spend less than a few a dollars. Its the remaining 10% that ruins it for everyone else because they are fuckin insane people that are either sick with addiction and/or have lots of disposable income that they are spending hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on these games.

They ruin it for everyone..? What? I'm loving the F2P revolution. I pay next to nothing and get to play some really cool games (Dota 2, Marvel Puzzle Quest, PvZ2, just to name a few). I can't really complain.

 

[keuja]

Fuck all this grinding shit that you can buy with real life money.
Thanks MS for bringing this trend to consoles. That's just terrible :/.

 

[KDR_11k]

people should just start voting with their wallets.
buy such games and then complain is what brought DLC as a standard practice in the first place.

Can I anti-buy a game? Vote 'no' harder than just not buying it?

 

[curlyfriski]

And the more traction it's allowed, the more the games will be built for this:

Whaling. You get irate, even to the extent of not buying the game itself, and it does nothing because there's a whale out there who will go for the nickel-and-diming to compensate.

Now I want to play an adaptation of Moby Dick.

 

[Htown]

They ruin it for everyone..? What? I'm loving the F2P revolution. I pay next to nothing and get to play some really cool games (Dota 2, Marvel Puzzle Quest, PvZ2, just to name a few). I can't really complain.

again

the difference is that the Xbox One games that do this are not free. Imagine if you had to pay 50 bucks for Dota 2, Marvel Puzzle Quest, and PvZ2, and they still had the F2P hooks in there.

 

[BrainZEROX]

I've read the article and I really don't like the idea of microtransactions messing with GT6's economy. I was set to buy the game day one but I'll wait for feedbacks. If it has become a grinding fest to promote use of microtransactions then I'll give up on the game. I won't pay one cent more than the game price, that's a big no. I'll vote against with my wallet.

 

[synce]

Please people, don't support any companies doing this. It's only going to worse if you do. We've already had full price action games ship with just one weapon

 

[teepo]

how does the grind to unlock cars compare to the previous forza titles?

 

[twofold]

again

the difference is that the Xbox One games that do this are not free. Imagine if you had to pay 50 bucks for Dota 2, Marvel Puzzle Quest, and PvZ2, and they still had the F2P hooks in there.

Oh, I know. I think microtransactions of this sort have no place in a full priced game. I was just arguing against the idea that microtransactions are inherently bad, that's all.

The guy I quoted said --

'iOS works the same way. Over 70% of the people playing a lot of the big F2P games will never spend a dime on them. 15-20% will spend less than a few a dollars. Its the remaining 10% that ruins it for everyone else because they are fuckin insane people that are either sick with addiction and/or have lots of disposable income that they are spending hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on these games.'

I think ios gaming shows that F2P can work and can be good, and it's all because of the whales. Without them, F2P simply couldn't work as a business model.

 

[Bedlam]

I'm done with games with this model. Time is more important than cost to me and these F2P elements chew through the little recreational time I have in a day.

This is what it comes down to for me, too.

I pay for games in order to have fun for a few hours of my spare-time. Why should I waste this time on games that are essentially not fun unless I pay for not having to play the unfun parts of the game? It's fucking ridiculous. This stuff crushes the pillars of good game design.

I want games to be soley designed to be as much fun as possible. The F2P model, which meanwhile has basically turned into F2P2P, doesn't allow that (unless is exclusively of cosmetic nature).

Publisher can keep those games. I won't buy any game that includes such monetization models and if that means that I won't be able to enjoy a couple of AAA games, then so be it. There are alternatives.

 

[QaaQer]

This is what it comes down to for me, too.

I pay for games in order to have fun for a few hours of my spare-time. Why should I waste this time on games that are essentially not fun unless I pay for not having to play the unfun parts of the game? It's fucking ridiculous. This stuff crushes the pillars of good game design.

I want games to be soley designed to be as much fun as possible. The F2P model, which meanwhile has basically turned into F2P2P, doesn't allow that (unless is exclusively of cosmetic nature).

I think valve is the only one who can claim to do it right, and that is probably because they have shit of money from elsewhere.

 

[Majukun]

Can I anti-buy a game? Vote 'no' harder than just not buying it?

you can steal copies and burn them on the street

 

[Htown]

I think valve is the only one who can claim to do it right, and that is probably because they have shit of money from elsewhere.

Path of Exile is good about it too.

 

[CecilRousso]

Isn't the difference between Forza 4 and Forza 5 also that they lowered the number of included cars in the base game from 500 to 200?

 

[Aeneas]

Eurogamer on point as usual. I wish other sites would also condemn this practice.

It kills me that two of my most anticipated games (GT6 and bravely default) are doing this shit. Buying used.

 

[erawsd]

They ruin it for everyone..? What? I'm loving the F2P revolution. I pay next to nothing and get to play some really cool games (Dota 2, Marvel Puzzle Quest, PvZ2, just to name a few). I can't really complain.

I'm not saying that the games still can't be fun. However, there is no denying that developers are purposely injecting tedium into the game to encourage players to spend a few extra $$$. All the stupid gating mechanisms and nagging to buy crap in PvZ2 is a grand example -- fun game but the experience was most definitely tainted.

I will say that competitive games like DOTA tend to be an exception, because the developers are obligated to maintain balance.

 

[firehawk12]

Wait, GT6 has this shit too? Fuuuuck.