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[Mr.Allan]

Yeah, he ignores all the other stuff. I would like to see him explaining how in hell can ~4080 level GPU reach 5090 RT power in games.

under 200w APU mind you. Also imo it will be the same thing that killed entire current console generation - chassing for something hardware cannot produce like RT on ps5, then you need to gaslight people to think 30fps are fine and all these 180-600mhz monitors are fake.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

under 200w APU mind you. Also imo it will be the same thing that killed entire current console generation - chassing for something hardware cannot produce like RT on ps5, then you need to gaslight people to think 30fps are fine and all these 180-600mhz monitors are fake.

It's said to be 160. And there's going to be plenty of Frame Gen going to be used.

 

[Mr.Allan]

It's said to be 160. And there's going to be plenty of Frame Gen going to be used.

FSR 4 frame gen 180fps feels waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than native 90fps. They did something wrong as I played wukong with FG (72 to 144) and it was fine.

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

25% faster than PS6!!! We are so fucking back!

sales figures of the more powerful Xbox Series X vs. weak ass PS5:

A man running down a hill Vs a man in a wheelchair, the wheelchair man will win yet crowds are not gonna buy wheelchairs, Xbox is a wheelchair.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

FSR 4 frame gen 180fps feels waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than native 90fps. They did something wrong as I played wukong with FG (72 to 144) and it was fine.

We're talking about console though. I think it'll be an easier sell there.

 

[Mr.Allan]

We're talking about console though. I think it'll be an easier sell there.

I know sonystation fans would buy a brick and call it a good hardware. It's a cult at this point.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I know sonystation fans would buy a brick and call it a good hardware. It's a cult at this point.

Well, the console is going to be a lot slower than Magnus (much more than 25%, IMO). Even with the price difference I think FG is what they are going to rely on to close the performance gap.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

So PS6 is dated because Xbox PC is 25% stronger?

LMAO

If sony realy keep 160w tdp target then clocks will be low and diff will be definitely bigger also dated comparing to what will be available on geforces late 2027/early 2028 not to helix. Just keep your expectations checked as Sony went with budget route (and to be fair its only way to keep price kinda affordable but it still be expensive unfortunately).

 

[Mr.Allan]

Well, the console is going to be a lot slower than Magnus (much more than 25%, IMO). Even with the price difference I think FG is what they are going to rely on to close the performance gap.

but like I said. they somehow made FG worse. It's very laggy and 140fps feels worse than 60. I tried it on multiple setups. If that tech ends up in ps6 then 60fps will feel like 40fps.
2 last games I tried it, out of courisity were crimson desert and pragmata. both felt like under 60fps games while being 120fps native. maybe it's my setup problem.

 

[N30RYU]

25% faster? Np, even releasing it at a loss they won't lose money on it 'cause it won't sell.

 

[Salty Pickle]

I like that in the time stamped fragment he talks with sense, that 10x increase RT is purely theoretical vs. most real world scenarios. So why he keeps talking about PS6 = 5090 in RT idiocy?

I agree that comparison with 5090 is a stretch but 10x RT vs Rdna2 base ps5 sounds plausible on paper. In real world I guess it depends on what the bottleneck is.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

but like I said. they somehow made FG worse. It's very laggy and 140fps feels worse than 60. I tried it on multiple setups. If that tech ends up in ps6 then 60fps will feel like 40fps.
2 last games I tried it, out of courisity were crimson desert and pragmata. both felt like under 60fps games while being 120fps native. maybe it's my setup problem.

Maybe Sony will be able to do a better job.

 

[J Required]

If sony realy keep 160w tdp target then clocks will be low and diff will be definitely bigger also dated comparing to what will be available on geforces late 2027/early 2028 not to helix. Just keep your expectations checked as Sony went with budget route (and to be fair its only way to keep price kinda affordable but it still be expensive unfortunately).

If this ... if that

Do you remember 9TF vs 12TF? Im getting similar vibes

 

[Bojji]

If this ... if that

Do you remember 9TF vs 12TF? Im getting similar vibes

In the end it was 10 vs 12. It could have been 9TF earlier before they bumped up the clock. Early devkits didn't have hardware RT if I remember correctly?

 

[J Required]

In the end it was 10 vs 12. It could have been 9TF earlier before they bumped up the clock. Early devkits didn't have hardware RT if I remember correctly?

All baseless rumors, people can assume all sort of things knowing that no one will ever correct them.

 

[kevboard]

All baseless rumors, people can assume all sort of things knowing that no one will ever correct them.

none of these are rumors nor baseless. we had the exact hardware leak. AMD being so slow to add these features made Sony prototype their system on RDNA1 features first, before adding some RDNA2 features to it in the finalising steps of hardware development.

 

[Physiognomonics]

What's a "1st party Xbox console"? That looks like something hallucinated by some AI prompt.

 

[Bojji]

All baseless rumors, people can assume all sort of things knowing that no one will ever correct them.

Except those rumors were correct. Outside of final clock (and TF number that is calculated from it) rest of the rumors were on the money.

Note that we don't know clocks and TF numbers this time around, things that can be changed late into the development.

 

[saintjules]

 

[viveks86]

I like that in the time stamped fragment he talks with sense, that 10x increase RT is purely theoretical vs. most real world scenarios. So why he keeps talking about PS6 = 5090 in RT idiocy?

For the same clicks that he is accusing Kepler of.

"It's going to reach 5090 levels of performance with 6-12x RT"

"Obviously, I didn't mean 5090 literally. I'm not stupid"

"But AMD and Microsoft have said it is a magnitude more. And they did pull it off the last time when they claimed 2x. So it might literally match a 5090, in some specific scenarios"

"But obviously it isn't literally literal. I'm not stupid"

Ad infinitum. He can't decide if he's stupid or not.

Nobody is disputing the 10x. It's what that translates to in FPS compared to a 5090.

 

[viveks86]

What's a "1st party Xbox console"?

One that isn't a 3rd party Xbox console

 

[KeplerL2]

For the same clicks that he is accusing Kepler of.

"It's going to reach 5090 levels of performance with 6-12x RT"

"Obviously, I didn't mean 5090 literally. I'm not stupid"

"But AMD and Microsoft have said it is a magnitude more. And they did pull it off the last time when they claimed 2x. So it might literally match a 5090, in some specific scenarios"

"But obviously it isn't literally literal. I'm not stupid"

Ad infinitum. He can't decide if he's stupid or not.

Nobody is disputing the 10x. It's what that translates to in FPS in relation to a 5090.

Just a few days ago he was saying the PS6 will smoke the 4090

 

[Bojji]

For the same clicks that he is accusing Kepler of.

"It's going to reach 5090 levels of performance with 6-12x RT"

"Obviously, I didn't mean 5090 literally. I'm not stupid"

"But AMD and Microsoft have said it is a magnitude more. And they did pull it off the last time when they claimed 2x. So it might literally match a 5090, in some specific scenarios"

"But obviously it isn't literally literal. I'm not stupid"

Ad infinitum. He can't decide if he's stupid or not.

Nobody is disputing the 10x. It's what that translates to in FPS in relation to a 5090.

He just can't admit that he is spinning those numbers to hype up PS fanboys (and he is accusing Kepler of doing the same for Xbox fanboys). Ehhh...

Just quick return to rumor discussion

Verifying Device

August 2019.

2.0GHz x 2304 (shaders) x 2 = 9.216TF

After bump to over 2.2GHz we get final TF number. This leaker knew how much shaders PS5 will have.

 

[viveks86]

Just a few days ago he was saying the PS6 will smoke the 4090

Lol. Hope you aren't getting harassed online. And don't let any pretty girls slide into your DMs right now. Catfish alert!

 

[Mr.Allan]

For the same clicks that he is accusing Kepler of.

"It's going to reach 5090 levels of performance with 6-12x RT"

"Obviously, I didn't mean 5090 literally. I'm not stupid"

"But AMD and Microsoft have said it is a magnitude more. And they did pull it off the last time when they claimed 2x. So it might literally match a 5090, in some specific scenarios"

"But obviously it isn't literally literal. I'm not stupid"

Ad infinitum. He can't decide if he's stupid or not.

Nobody is disputing the 10x. It's what that translates to in FPS compared to a 5090.

stupid people don't know they're stupid.

 

[Orbital2060]

What's a "1st party Xbox console"? That looks like something hallucinated by some AI prompt.

As opposed to the OEM hardware they are talking about? First party (traditional) Xbox, and then a bunch of other OEMs with the Magnus chip in them.

 

[adamsapple]

MLiD ... more like

 

[slrbomber]

I have 9070xt, had 7800xt. These are great cards. if you think that amd can somehow reduce tdp of 9070xt from 304w to 150w + cpu/ram/ssd/ etc you're delusional. There's a reason why 9070xt is at 300+w tdp. you can undervolt it but it will always crash on one game. It's not possible, currently, to have 9070xt performance under 200w. rdna5 won't change that. It will be ps4 all over with smokes and mirrors.

I'm still skeptical of the 150w tdp for the whole console especially considering the higher clocked CPU and GPU. On that note 9070xt is good but dont think its going to be as good as the RDNA 5 Orion GPU. At rasterization likely the two would be a match but the extra hw acceleration for RT and AI will just give the Orion GPU an upper hand. One issue though is the memory bandwidth on the PS6, thats one thing that will definitely limit the performance if indeed its using a 160 bit bus.

 

[Alex Scott]

Just a few days ago he was saying the PS6 will smoke the 4090

It should. Correct?

 

[KeplerL2]

It should. Correct?

No? PS6 has a newer architecture and node advantage but the 4090 is a much bigger GPU with double the compute, almost double the memory bandwidth and 3x higher TDP.

 

[adamsapple]

No? PS6 has a newer architecture and node advantage but the 4090 is a much bigger GPU with double the compute, almost double the memory bandwidth and 3x higher TDP.

The A.I will make up for it.

 

[viveks86]

No? PS6 has a newer architecture and node advantage but the 4090 is a much bigger GPU with double the compute, almost double the memory bandwidth and 3x higher TDP.

Question about the TDP - is that 160W number final? If so, what black magic is being done to achieve 10xRT, 100xML and 3x raster? Is that going to be an issue?

 

[KeplerL2]

Question about the TDP - is that 160W number final? If so, what black magic is being done to achieve 10xRT, 100xML and 3x raster? Is that going to be an issue?

No, it's a projection and they're rarely accurate.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Just a few days ago he was saying the PS6 will smoke the 4090

He can't not show his Sony fanboyism. He's such a weird character.

I mean, he knows where his bread is buttered and leans into it I suppose.

 

[Salty Pickle]

No? PS6 has a newer architecture and node advantage but the 4090 is a much bigger GPU with double the compute, almost double the memory bandwidth and 3x higher TDP.

But he specifically says "Ray tracing and AI", how will those features stack against the 4090?

 

[Xyphie]

At the end of the day if the PS6 chip is one third reticle ~280mm² SoC as he claims and on TSMC N3P it should be something like ~60-65B transistors (~224Mtr/mm²) total, and his very own floor plan sketch of the chip shows the GPU cores+memory controllers being like 60% of the die area, just eyeballing it.

A reasonable estimate is that the PS6 is going to falls between something like a ~40SM RTX 6060 Ti and ~60SM RTX 6070 (or whatever nVidia will call those chips). Is either of those going to perform like a 5090? Maybe with Jensen-like RTX 5070 = 4090 math.

 

[Garda]

Ummm... F1 already did it a year ago for 4 digits...

It actually won't be surprising to see GT 8 path traced. The biggest element causing lag in the path tracing pipeline is GI as it needs to accumulate over several frames. And a big part of that lag gets cut down with RR and radiance caching. It could happen.

Maybe even GT7 could have offered RT during gameplay on base PS5 if they offered the option to choose 1080p resolution. I hope to see more graphical options with PS6 so we can play with resolution and AI graphical features.

 

[Shogmaster]

The A.I will make up for it.

Irony? Isn't 4090 die like half dedicated to AI anyways? LOL

 

[Tobimacoss]

One that isn't a 3rd party Xbox console

Wouldn't those OEM consoles technically be Second Party Consoles?

Especially if they have the Xbox branding. Third party Xbox PCs could be considered third party if they use the Magnus APUs but don't retain the Xbox branding.

 

[Cumulus]

It should. Correct?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Irony? Isn't 4090 die like half dedicated to AI anyways? LOL

All the while having a die size that's about 2x the size of the PS6.

Well.. then again if it was fabbed using 3nm like the PS6 would will, then that's becomes a 280mm2 to a around 350mm2 chip.

Still winning tho. Easily.

 

[Shogmaster]

All the while having a die size that's about 2x the size of the PS6.

Well.. then again if it was fabbed using 3nm like the PS6 would will, then that's becomes a 280mm2 to a around 350mm2 chip.

Still winning tho. Easily.

Hey, that's much closer to Magnus GPU section of ~280mm² LOL

 

[Bojji]

The A.I will make up for it.

It already happened, believe!

That's what MLID ramblings will lead to, more and more people will now expect 4090/5090 performance from PS6

 

[Cumulus]

It already happened, believe!

That's what MLID ramblings will lead to, more and more people will now expect 4090/5090 performance from PS6

Can't wait for the usual secret sauce discussions the moment Cerny gives his first feature presentations.

 

[viveks86]

Wouldn't those OEM consoles technically be Second Party Consoles?

Especially if they have the Xbox branding. Third party Xbox PCs could be considered third party if they use the Magnus APUs but don't retain the Xbox branding.

Well if it doesn't have the branding, it isn't an "Xbox" PC even from a marketing standpoint, right? It's just a PC with a specific AMD Magnus config. MS wouldn't own any of that.

I think second party is applicable only if MS still retains control of how the device is sold and at what price. If they are just licensing it out for OEMs to do as they see fit, it's 3rd party imo.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Just found this little bitch crying and thought it would be funny to blast 'em (he's crying about Kepler saying Helix will have 0 GPU customizations).

 

[dgrdsv]

Irony? Isn't 4090 die like half dedicated to AI anyways? LOL

No. AI specific h/w in Nvidia's gaming GPUs are at 10-20% of die area.

 

[Black_Stride]

No. AI specific h/w in Nvidia's gaming GPUs are at 10-20% of die area.

And that 10 - 20% gives a major boost that if replaced with CUDA cores would actually lead to worse looks and performance in many many games.

With RT and Tensors getting better and better gen on gen, gains are reaching the point its actually starting to make sense to just use RT instead of trying to raster the whole game.

I wouldn't be shocked if future titles RT on vs off shows little to no performance gains but the RT version looks better.

 

[Chase5]

Am I missing something in the kep vs mlid debate? When I hear things like 10x ray tracing, while it obviously affects performance, I'm assuming most gains will go towards the quality of the image. I'm expecting 60fps (or 90/120fps in some cases or with MFG) to still be the target for next-gen consoles and for devs to focus any uplift more into image richness, npcs, physics, new ways of play, etc. I don't hear 10x ray tracing and think 10x the frames- just the availability to use more, quality, and performance will be higher.

I always look forward to new consoles as it gives devs a new standard baseline to develop for. At this point with AI upscaling and MFG I do wonder what 25% will contribute to, since traditionally more power in consoles has gone towards resolution, frames, sharpness, and texture quality. AI tools might make image sharpness look the same despite relatively low power differences. New effects or density would be nice as you move up or into pc. I'm excited for next-gen and the efficiency gains.

 

[onQ123]

Guess who is right here between K KeplerL2 and the beard

People need to read

Without even reading it I'm guessing he was talking about the AMD GPU & not the actual console. But it seems that people misinterpret on purpose these days.