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[Men_in_Boxes]

The Dire Marsh Sponsored Kit version actually sounds pretty good to me. I have a bunch of Dire Marsh quests that I can not do because I just keep running into squads of purple shielded rooftop snipers. Maybe I can do the quests now…

The problem they're running into is that they made a game where power differences isn't fun. They've correctly identified that high skill players with superior gear are making low level players quit.

This "fix" is essentially a Battle Royale with everyone starting at the same low level.

I think they need to start exploring trade offs in their power curve. The better gear should come with a cost. Better shields should slow you down or give you some kind of other problem to deal with.

 

[cormack12]

I think they need to start exploring trade offs in their power curve. The better gear should come with a cost. Better shields should slow you down or give you some kind of other problem to deal with.

I do agree with this. You can be a glass cannon or a tank with a pea shooter. And just use inventory weight/space as the management tool

 

[zaga]

I think they need to start exploring trade offs in their power curve. The better gear should come with a cost. Better shields should slow you down or give you some kind of other problem to deal with.

Agree but purple shielded rooftop snipers probably don't care how slow their movement speed is…

Maybe a different tradeoff like a max loadout value. So people can loadout with the nice gun or the nice shields but not both.

 

[Bernardougf]

The problem they're running into is that they made a game where power differences isn't fun. They've correctly identified that high skill players with superior gear are making low level players quit.

This "fix" is essentially a Battle Royale with everyone starting at the same low level.

I think they need to start exploring trade offs in their power curve. The better gear should come with a cost. Better shields should slow you down or give you some kind of other problem to deal with.

As soon as they make any changes to make it "easier" sweats (who I think are keeping this game alive) will rage quit because they will loose their fun, and the casuals will continue to hop and go, this game is a "born dead" idea and trying to band-aid the bleeding may transform it into a full hemorrhage of players.

 

[Hari Seldon]

There's massive unexplored territory on the other side of ARC Raiders. This is where Zelda-esque Extraction resides.

What you are describing is basically ARC with optional PVP, which is Destiny or Division. Or a living world with PVP, aka survival games.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Agree but purple shielded rooftop snipers probably don't care how slow their movement speed is…

Maybe a different tradeoff like a max loadout value. So people can loadout with the nice gun or the nice shields but not both.

Yeah, I'm surprised this wasn't the route they were taking.

I thought they would explore a solos & duos mode where the duo teams are gimped by specific restrictions. Give the solo players some free upgrades to balance out the 1 v 2 nature of engagments.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

You lost the plot mate.

Can't lose something you never had

 

[BbMajor7th]

How so? Instead of insulting me, try just telling me why I'm wrong.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence - your wild takes are yours to substantiate, not another's to disprove.

Based on this thread it's pretty clear you struggle to convince anyone of your claims. A number of possibilities might explain this:

1. Your ideas are brilliant, but you lack the skill to communicate them.
2. You're ideas are so brilliant that they defy common comprehension.
3. Your ideas suck.

All things being equal, it's probably three, but whichever it is, you're unlikely to change minds.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

6 pm completed hour.

Compared to last Weds which is the worst recent regular weekday to compare against, tracking -12%. Weds peaked at 25.4k. So tonight might be 25.4k less 12% = 22.3k

 

[SnapShot]

 

[rkofan87]

1.2+ million in sales. Lots of player drop off.

S2 will get a fair shake by a lot of people. There's a ton of eyeballs on this game. S2 is almost a relaunch, especially when Ziegler releases another 10 minute video discussing S1 and their goals for S2.

are you a shareholder in Bungie or something or a super fanboy

 

[PSYGN]

are you a shareholder in bunk or something or a super fanboy

He's a GaaS huffer

 

[falconhoof]

US is going to have to work hard tonight to get those numbers up.

People are going to need to optimize their blast having to work that CCU

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Translation:
We released an unfinished game and now we are desperately trying to save it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

US is going to have to work hard tonight to get those numbers up.

People are going to need to optimize their blast having to work that CCU

Yup.

The CCU is actually much worse than everyone focusing on the US peak. The Euro and Asian/Aussie hour CCUs are much worse drop offs. But often times the US peak gains it back making it look not as bad.

Using Wednesday as a comparable normal bad weekday, early morning tracking was -20%, but then as the day goes it improves. The -12% I listed above which comes from peak Euro hours ending will probably improve in a couple hours as US gamers help.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

are you a shareholder in bunk or something or a super fanboy

Why are we not allowed to have different opinions about a games potential?

Why is everything met with such lame tribalism? This whole "He disagrees with me so he must be a shill" thing...I don't know why your brain pursues this mode of thinking.

Data from Star Trek always sought out what it means to be human. Be more curious.

 

[MayauMiao]

What is Marathon position for Playstation at the moment?

Perhaps its in the top 10 PSN of most played/active user?

 

[Zacfoldor]

Thanks StreetsofBeige for updating the data here for us! Much appreciated!

 

[rkofan87]

Why are we not allowed to have different opinions about a games potential?

Why is everything met with such lame tribalism? This whole "He disagrees with me so he must be a shill" thing...I don't know why your brain pursues this mode of thinking.

Data from Star Trek always sought out what it means to be human. Be more curious.

this is not just about you liking the game you're actively saying the game can be saved when it cannot
you love the game that's fine but you got to admit the game is beyond saving

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed evidence - your wild takes are yours to substantiate, not another's to disprove.

Based on this thread it's pretty clear you struggle to convince anyone of your claims. A number of possibilities might explain this:

1. Your ideas are brilliant, but you lack the skill to communicate them.
2. You're ideas are so brilliant that they defy common comprehension.
3. Your ideas suck.

All things being equal, it's probably three, but whichever it is, you're unlikely to change minds.

There is another possibility you may have missed.

When I was growing up, my friends and I always talked about games. We'd throw out ideas and ping pong back and forth why we agreed or disagreed. Sometimes we'd reach agreement, other times we wouldn't. Everyone in my orbit generally enjoyed the discussion.

It's possible many people here share a certain personality trait (non curiosity) and genuinely don't like talking about things like design or incentives. I've never met people in real life who are so tribal and rigid when it comes to the discussion of games.

I might not have the ability communicate my ideas effectively, but the brick wall (GAAS is bad, Extraction is bad, Marathon is dead) of certain personalities doesn't exactly inspire one to do much more than send out the occasional flyer.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So they are testing default shitty kits because they finally realized games are imbalanced with curb stompers.

Either Ziegler and gang are the dumbest game makers who didnt see it coming, or are desperately trying it now to save user base. I dont even play extraction games, but could tell a mile away that's what would happen. I even said this probably up to a month ago in this thread.

Funny thing is at the beginning I assumed the game had SBMM since every shooter seems to. So when players bring in their uber gear it might not be that bad since the algorithm would sort out player skill and gear. Turns out the algorithm just cares about character level which means zero to that. Two COD gamers at level 60 arent equal. And one guy decked out in better gear makes the imbalance even worse. COD has SBMM and players do their own loadouts but the loadouts are all fair and square for everyone. Even in old COD games which didnt seem to have any MM (in my opinion since it seemed it was random) it's not as bad because loadouts are equal and teams are randomized with each one getting good or bad players playing as lone wolfs most of the time. In COD they even seem to give many good guns at level 1, so even an Xmas noob with half decent skills has a shot at being competitive as they unlock gear. Their disadvantage isnt skill or gear, it's not knowing the maps yet. In Marathon they want trios which means lots of people who know each other will stack together making it even tougher.

So add it up and the imbalance can be off the charts compared to any other shooter out there.

I'm going to assume Bungie purposely wanted a wild west imbalanced game thinking it would be great to have curb stompers going against weak gamers like a game of cat and mouse. But in gaming you cant have that if you want a successful game where only the good vet gamers clearly dominate. They cant be that dumb since they have experience making Halo and Destiny which do have SBMM.

What they should had done since day one (going back to how many of us said the game has such little content) is have two key modes. SBMM ranked mode which sorts it out, and Unranked free for all mode where anyone from curb stompers can go against weaker players who want to test their luck killing stacked gamers for their gear.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The video discusses the growing concerns regarding the state of Bungie's new game, Marathon. The key issues addressed include:

Matchmaking Issues: Players are encountering "Mongoose"-like error codes (labeled as "Oregano" in Marathon) that prevent them from finding matches, often leading to long wait times or disconnects (0:00–0:41).
Declining Population: The video highlights a steady, albeit not catastrophic, decline in player counts on Steam, which is contributing to matchmaking difficulties and long queues (1:24–2:48).
The "Hardcore" Barrier: A major point of discussion is the game's brutal, high-stakes extraction shooter design. While some players advocate for better PvE options to help average players progress, others argue that this punishing difficulty is the core appeal of the genre (3:06–3:20, 5:54–7:02).
Skill Creep: The gap between "free-kit" players (starters) and fully kitted, high-level players is becoming a significant pain point, as new or casual players struggle to survive against veteran teams (5:05–5:30).

The creator emphasizes that while Marathon is still in its early stages and may see a population boost with future resets, the current technical and design hurdles are creating a challenging experience for the community.


Bungo is quiet because they and the game are fine and happy just working on the game. Not in panic at alll

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

this is not just about you liking the game you're actively saying the game can be saved when it cannot
you love the game that's fine but you got to admit the game is beyond saving

It's OK to disagree. You could be right. You could be wrong. I'm not sure you've explained convincingly why it has no chance.

I'd like to see PlayStation give the game 6 - 12 months of heavy updates and if there's no signs of life, it's OK to pull the plug.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The "Hardcore" Barrier: A major point of discussion is the game's brutal, high-stakes extraction shooter design. While some players advocate for better PvE options to help average players progress, others argue that this punishing difficulty is the core appeal of the genre (3:06–3:20, 5:54–7:02).
Skill Creep: The gap between "free-kit" players (starters) and fully kitted, high-level players is becoming a significant pain point, as new or casual players struggle to survive against veteran teams (5:05–5:30).

What Bungie and Ziegler probably assumed is that finding/looting uber gear and getting out would be a thrilling gameplay loop for everyone.

The curb stompers would love it because they are stacked and steamroll weak gamers. While those same noobish gamers struggle, they also love the thrill of possibly killing good gamers to steal their rare items.

So as I said above, it's a game of cat and mouse where two different kinds of gamers can still enjoy the same match in their own way.

Total failure concept if that's what they aimed for.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

if there's no signs of life, it's OK to pull the

If omegagenre were a thing, even the OmegaMid representatives of the genre would be able to chug along

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

What Bungie and Ziegler probably assumed is that finding/looting uber gear and getting out would be a thrilling gameplay loop for everyone.

The curb stompers would love it because they are stacked and steamroll weak gamers. While those same noobish gamers struggle, they also love the thrill of possibly killinging good gamers to steal their rare items.

So as I said above, it's a game of cat and mouse where two different kinds of gamers can still enjoy the same match in their own way.

Total failure concept if that's what they aimed for.

Back in the open beta (which I played for 20+ hours) I found the game lacking in strategic and balancing depth. I was thinking specifically in shields and damage output.

What if the game had balanced these two factors out?

The higher your damage output, the weaker the shield you could equip. Theoretically, skilled players would gravitate toward higher-damage builds, while average or less-skilled players would lean toward more defensive, resilient ones. This also could factor if you are playing solo, duos, trios in the same map.

All these "experiments" feel that they are trying to solve a problem in the worst ways possible.

 

[Danny22]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Back in the open beta (which I played for 20+ hours) I found the game lacking in strategic and balancing depth. I was thinking specifically in shields and damage output.

What if the game had balanced these two factors out?

The higher your damage output, the weaker the shield you could equip. Theoretically, skilled players would gravitate toward higher-damage builds, while average or less-skilled players would lean toward more defensive, resilient ones. This also could factor if you are playing solo, duos, trios in the same map.

All these "experiments" feel that they are trying to solve a problem in the worst ways possible.

I love it.

A great way to help reduce the skill gap.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I love it.

A great way to help reduce the skill gap.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Back in the open beta (which I played for 20+ hours) I found the game lacking in strategic and balancing depth. I was thinking specifically in shields and damage output.

What if the game had balanced these two factors out?

The higher your damage output, the weaker the shield you could equip. Theoretically, skilled players would gravitate toward higher-damage builds, while average or less-skilled players would lean toward more defensive, resilient ones. This also could factor if you are playing solo, duos, trios in the same map.

All these "experiments" feel that they are trying to solve a problem in the worst ways possible.

Yup.

It's actually similar to COD Pick 10 systems or tiered perks. They are designed in such a way gamers cant have it all based on limits on how many they can take from each bucket. So you cant really have an offensive and defensive stack at the same time. For me, I favoured high power, explosives, scavenger, and basic attachments like red dot.

But for whatever reason they purposely wanted a game where good gamers and noobs all fight in the same match. And uber gear stacks make it even a bigger divide. No SBMM. Only reason why they wanted it that way is what I listed above post because it doesnt make any logical sense otherwise why any studio would want matches to be so lopsided.

 

[neocycle]

What is Marathon position for Playstation at the moment?

Perhaps its in the top 10 PSN of most played/active user?

It's at #57 on psnprofiles popularity list. This is very, very low.
I think the game does not work on consoles at all, because of the small text and UI.

 

[MayauMiao]

It's at #57 on psnprofiles popularity list. This is very, very low.
I think the game does not work on consoles at all, because of the small text and UI.

Because of its hardcore sweathy nature, probably make it less appealing to be played with a controller.

What's on #56 and #58 at the moment for laughs?

 

[Plague Doctor]

Shiiiiiittttt

Cold blooded. Was that on purple place? That person has to be banned right? With the amount of sock puppet Devs and pearl clutching modern audience types, they had to firebomb this comment.

I am disappointed none of us came up with that burn. We are slipping! We are losing our touch and edge like Bungie.

 

[neocycle]

Because of its hardcore sweathy nature, probably make it less appealing to be played with a controller.

What's on #56 and #58 at the moment for laughs?

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Is 4612 owners Playstation?

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

This "fix" is essentially a Battle Royale

The true OMEGA GENRE!

Massive PUBG comeback in the west soon? Redsec successful relaunch come BF6 season 3?

A horse can dream!

 

[MayauMiao]

4612 owners? Marathon could have been a solid single player game with its rich history and sold as good if not better like Returnal, but Nooooo, it had to be another cookie cutter extraction shooter.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

9 pm completed hour CCU. All time low peak 22.9k established a bit past 10 pm
All time peak was launch day 88.3k. Today's peak at 22.9k is -65.4k or -74%

Today vs yesterday: 22.9k vs 25.1k (-2.2k or -9%). As suspected US decline % isnt as bad as Euro or Asia/Aussie peak hours

Yesterday's low 6.7k. If the rate holds, low tonight will be 6.1k. Make note it's server down day tomorrow at 8 am

Mon vs Mon: 22.9k vs 28.3k (-5.4k or -19%). Still dropping week over week about -20%

Alternate method to estimate peaks and valleys (ballpark ratios)
On normal weekdays, 3:1. For example, a peak 30k will have a low of 10k. For Fri/Sat, gamers stay up playing so the ratio is 2.5:1

Steam Rankings
Daily Active Users 96
Global Top Sellers 67
Weekly Top Sellers 41 ending Apr 7 (was 32 last week)
Top Rated Games 5,652 (84.41%)

 

[neocycle]

4612 owners? Marathon could have been a solid single player game with its rich history and sold as good if not better like Returnal, but Nooooo, it had to be another cookie cutter extraction shooter.

The number represents only the people on psnprofiles who have it.

 

[neocycle]

Is 4612 owners Playstation?

The number represents only the people on psnprofiles who have it. And that's ps5 owners.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

The number represents only the people on psnprofiles who have it. And that's ps5 owners.

Ah ok that's psn profiles... That's pretty hurtin

 

[calico]

So the 'reward' for 'extracting' is an ever greater ability to pwn noobs, but because that is -understandably- an unappealing proposition to new players and the game is consequently dying, they should now make the rewards come with a trade-off disadvantage to level the playing field? Are you not eventually just going to end up back at a class-based shooter?

To avoid the increasingly unlevel playing field problem, maybe they need to get a bit more creative about what the reward for extracting is (ie. not a mechanical advantage vs other players). Though whether this would appeal to the mindset of people who really just want to pwn noobs while having as much mechanical advantage over them as possible, I couldn't say.

 

[lifa-cobex]

lol @ this

You only quoted on half my post

 

[BbMajor7th]

There is another possibility you may have missed.

When I was growing up, my friends and I always talked about games. We'd throw out ideas and ping pong back and forth why we agreed or disagreed. Sometimes we'd reach agreement, other times we wouldn't. Everyone in my orbit generally enjoyed the discussion.

It's possible many people here share a certain personality trait (non curiosity) and genuinely don't like talking about things like design or incentives. I've never met people in real life who are so tribal and rigid when it comes to the discussion of games.

I might not have the ability communicate my ideas effectively, but the brick wall (GAAS is bad, Extraction is bad, Marathon is dead) of certain personalities doesn't exactly inspire one to do much more than send out the occasional flyer.

"Maybe I'm at fault or maybe its everyone else?"

The thesis 'what if everyone's too close-minded to listen' can't be substantiated. Even if it could, you'd still be unlikely to change minds.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Hahahahahaha and people believed in 1.5-2M sales

This hasnt sold more than 500-750k across all platforms.

 

[Danny22]

Shiiiiiittttt

Cold blooded. Was that on purple place? That person has to be banned right? With the amount of sock puppet Devs and pearl clutching modern audience types, they had to firebomb this comment.

I am disappointed none of us came up with that burn. We are slipping! We are losing our touch and edge like Bungie.

No it kind of slipped past everyone lol. I was going to tell them how funny it was but then I thought why put it in the spotlight and potentially get the person banned. So just screenshotted and posted it here.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Game bottomed at about 6,450. Rebounding now.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

^ for you guys above taking PS profile stats, the site says it tracks 7M gamers. Though I dont think it says how many of those 7M are split by console as some will not have a PS5.

But if Returnal has 50x the gamers you can probably extrapolate how many PS copies of marathon sold if you know how many returnal sold on PS.

Edit: actually returnal has been on ps sub plans so that would boost the number. You'd need to know apples to apples returnal numbers before sub plans to compare to the 4600 number. So it's hard to compare

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

This whole genre is cooked or will only work as a neutered, Disney version that is more about progression/PVE than it is about multiplayer.

A dad can be lethal in Halo playing an hour a night. Marathon asks those people to spend their time sorting inventory, walking across 1 of 3 maps, open chest after chest of trash, and losing everything after 4 second fight.