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[Guilty_AI]

I'm genuinely amazed more of you can't see it. It's a revolutionary genre in that it can pull in so many different player types.

Are you one of those types that looks at GTA and thinks "i can drive cars on this, we don't need racing games anymore!"

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You've been trolling for a while but this just makes it even more obvious

I know a lot of y'all believed the genre was maxed out before ARC Raiders, but where do you see it's limit as a genre?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Are you one of those types that looks at GTA and thinks "i can drive cars on this, we don't need racing games anymore!"

No, but I do look at GTA like it can appeal to a lot of different player types.

 

[Rentahamster]

Has there ever been a mass appeal game that optimized for the sweaty 1% in order to achieve success? You at least need meaningful options for casual players to enjoy.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Has there ever been a mass appeal game that optimized for the sweaty 1% in order to achieve success? You at least need meaningful options for casual players to enjoy.

I bet the only examples are pre SBMM.

IE: Unreal Tournament and Quake.

Counter Strike shot up like a rocket once they added SBMM.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Extraction is the soup du jour in the GAAS space right now.

Seems like the games are not themselves the cause of player migration but rather a result of a larger conversation going on in gaming.

It seems like gaas players and developers are always searching for fresh rules that change the feel of the game. The base gunplay is no longer enough to carry and instead is actually just one benchmark for these games. Not an important one really.

What's important is the game theory. The game needs to feel fresh and new and it needs to create storytelling scenarios that allows users to connect together in unique and novel ways. At first we were just attacking each other with basic strategy(counterstrike) now we are developing our own little D&D campaign when creating these rulesets and maps that allows for organic storytelling during player interaction. PvP games are evolving and the devs are the dungeon masters. The rules are getting more complex and leading to a wider variation in gameplay.

I'm not sure what ruleset gaas will favor in the future but I can guarantee you one thing. Whatever is popular today will be stale by then.

 

[cormack12]

The problem with extraction shooters is they can work but the point is to deincentivise PvP. And you can do this in so many way. It's times like these where I feel if I was the game director I could fix this in a month.

And for those few who bought this game at $40 I don't care about you. I have your money there arent enough of you so you bet your ass, that your demands are priority Z

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Extraction is the soup du jour in the GAAS space right now.

Seems like the games are not themselves the cause of player migration but rather a result of a larger conversation going on in gaming.

It seems like gaas players and developers are always searching for fresh rules that change the feel of the game. The base gunplay is no longer enough to carry and instead is actually just one benchmark for these games. Not an important one really.

What's important is the game theory. The game needs to feel fresh and new and it needs to create storytelling scenarios that allows users to connect together in unique and novel ways. At first we were just attacking each other with basic strategy(counterstrike) now we are developing our own little D&D campaign when creating these rulesets and maps that allows for organic storytelling during player interaction. PvP games are evolving and the devs are the dungeon masters. The rules are getting more complex and leading to a wider variation in gameplay.

I'm not sure what ruleset gaas will favor in the future but I can guarantee you one thing. Whatever is popular today will be stale by then.

You get it. You get it you beautiful baby boy! Extraction is Star Trek. You have your (unique) mission, you have your (unique) character, you have a high stakes universe to navigate and all the surprises that come with it.

As much as I like Marathon, it's currently not a great Star Trek.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Right, but Extraction is the hot genre of today. ARC Raiders and Marathon have dominated the discussion in contrasting ways.

Fixed for you. Oh, and yapping about extraction does jack if it doesn't translate to actual players. Care to share us how the CCU count is doing on Marathon since this is what this thread is about?

 

[Signalis]

Extraction is the hottest genre in gaming right now.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I bet the only examples are pre SBMM.

IE: Unreal Tournament and Quake.

Those had bots and SP campaigns, so any type of hardcore focused optimization became null and void since casuals could just play against the machine. Not to mention the dynamics revolving around servers simply let you play against the same people until you got used to them, or played against friends over LAN and private servers.

MY, I WONDER WHAT MARATHON COULD DO?

Counter Strike shot up like a rocket once they added SBMM.

It shot up after they added trading and skins. They introduced sbmm it with the launch of CSGO, but the playerbase wasn't all that impressive before the weapons skins came along.

 

[mdkirby]

I'm genuinely amazed more of you can't see it. It's a revolutionary genre in that it can pull in so many different player types.

My autism could be playing silly buggers, but again, that's 100% premium sarcasm

 

[mdkirby]

I think you're right about that and it's a shame. Someone is going to make a fortune off this in gaming and I'm starting to suspect that someone won't be in the US.

I think it's a big reason behind china pulling out a lot of its western games studios investments, and cancelling projects and shuttering studios. Whilst creatives in the west seem to have been psyop'd into a pavlovian like revulsion towards ai, it's very much not the case in china, where they have embraced it, as has the public, and business and the state. Ai training is mandatory for 6 year olds and up. The major Chinese games studios (Tencent included) are already well into fully integrating into their workflows (whilst already being far more cost effective in development than the west, pre ai)...this will create a vast gulf in development costs and timelines between AAA western and AAA Chinese games in the coming couple of years that will make our $200-$300million flops even less sustainable/competitive. If I was to put on a tinfoil hat, id say a lot of the anti ai movement in western creative circles has been being boosted by Chinese bot farms to socially engineer a competitive advantage. Control of narratives in media and entertainment is a critical tool of national soft power, which the west (US) wielded to great effect via Hollywood for a century to shape the world in their image...it was a tool china has never managed to crack, but if they can find a way to destroy/bankrupt ours, whilst uplifting their own efforts, they will. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Chinese investment has been behind a lot of what we call 'woke' in film/games, as a form of industrial espoinage/sabotage.

Tin foil hat off.

 

[LuxFixxins]

Season 2 could absolutely save the game.

lol @ this

 

[Kronark]

Disagree wholeheartedly. It really is the #OmegaGenre because it takes the best parts of early genres and forms something considerably bigger.

Extraction can do Counter Strike.
Extraction can do Resident Evil.
Extraction can do Among Us.
Extraction can do Zelda.

Those 4 titles can not do Extraction.

Marathon does Counter Strike pretty good. It might even give you a Resident Evil vibe a bit, but it can't do Zelda or Among Us. Future Extraction games will head in this direction. It's a genre for all.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'm going to get you guys to think about genre framework if it's the last thing I do.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Looks like it could hit sub 20k this week.

 

[falconhoof]

Extraction can do Counter Strike.
Extraction can do Resident Evil.
Extraction can do Among Us.
Extraction can do Zelda.

Those 4 titles can not do Extraction.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'm going to get you guys to think about genre framework if it's the last thing I do.

Dont assume his gender, thats sexist

 

[calico]

How do you spend ~$4bn to release a game in the hottest genre, have everyone talking about it, and yet generate so little interest in playing it?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Can you explain what I'm not seeing?

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

What the fuck does "extraction can do Zelda" even mean?

You're gonna need to back that up big time.

 

[TVexperto]

What happened? Havent played in 2 weeks

 

[Timberwolf25]

What happened? Havent played in 2 weeks

Neither has a lot of people is what happened

 

[cormack12]

 

[adventurer_unknown]

The only path forward I see for Marathon is F2P, and even then I don't think it's gonna be enough.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What the fuck does "extraction can do Zelda" even mean?

 

[Danny22]

Youtube comment section about cheaters

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What the fuck does "extraction can do Zelda" even mean?

You're gonna need to back that up big time.

The genre is unique in that it prioritizes objectives over combat.

Zelda is just an open world with cool things to do in the distance. You have your little sword and some traversal options. Go to a shrine, solve the puzzle, and get to the Extraction point.

Extraction can cater to that framework if that's how people want to play. It can put Link (low PvP players) alongside CoD guy (high PvP players) as long as the world is big enough and gives players the appropriate tools.

 

[Mengy]

You get it. You get it you beautiful baby boy! Extraction is Star Trek. You have your (unique) mission, you have your (unique) character, you have a high stakes universe to navigate and all the surprises that come with it.

As much as I like Marathon, it's currently not a great Star Trek.

Extraction is not Star Trek. No Man's Sky is Star Trek.

Extraction is one scene of one episode of Tour of Duty.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

The genre is unique in that it prioritizes objectives over combat.

Zelda is just an open world with cool things to do in the distance. You have your little sword and some traversal options. Go to a shrine, solve the puzzle, and get to the Extraction point.

Extraction can cater to that framework if that's how people want to play. It can put Link (low PvP players) alongside CoD guy (high PvP players) as long as the world is big enough and gives players the appropriate tools.

You lost the plot mate.

 

[Bernardougf]

The genre is unique in that it prioritizes objectives over combat.

Zelda is just an open world with cool things to do in the distance. You have your little sword and some traversal options. Go to a shrine, solve the puzzle, and get to the Extraction point.

Extraction can cater to that framework if that's how people want to play. It can put Link (low PvP players) alongside CoD guy (high PvP players) as long as the world is big enough and gives players the appropriate tools.

You have to be trolling, because the alternative requires meds, a special jacket and probably electric brain "stimulation"

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Extraction is not Star Trek. No Man's Sky is Star Trek.

Nope.

Star Trek always starts with Picard hailing the captain of the distressed ship on the viewscreen. It's extremely social.

Star Trek is uneasy contact with other life forms, high stakes, and high degrees of social communication.

No Man's Sky could eventually get there (by becoming more Extraction like) but ARC Raiders is closer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You have to be trolling

How so? Instead of insulting me, try just telling me why I'm wrong.

 

[Bernardougf]

How so? Instead of insulting me, try just telling me why I'm wrong.

Im not insulting you... if you are just joking around is perfectly fine

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Crumbling from within

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Im not insulting you... if you are just joking around is perfectly fine

No, I'm curious why you think I'm wrong.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

1.2+ million in sales. Lots of player drop off.

S2 will get a fair shake by a lot of people. There's a ton of eyeballs on this game. S2 is almost a relaunch, especially when Ziegler releases another 10 minute video discussing S1 and their goals for S2.

I would bet my life on it that most who left already aren't coming back for season 2

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Crumbling from within

SBMM will help a lot. I just can't believe they launched without it.

 

[Bernardougf]

How so? Instead of insulting me, try just telling me why I'm wrong.

You want me to tell whats wrong in your mad rambling about how extraction can be zelda ? ... sorry I really can't

 

[cormack12]

The genre is unique in that it prioritizes objectives over combat.

Zelda is just an open world with cool things to do in the distance. You have your little sword and some traversal options. Go to a shrine, solve the puzzle, and get to the Extraction point.

Extraction can cater to that framework if that's how people want to play. It can put Link (low PvP players) alongside CoD guy (high PvP players) as long as the world is big enough and gives players the appropriate tools.

 

[TheLikou]

How do you spend ~$4bn to release a game in the hottest genre, have everyone talking about it, and yet generate so little interest in playing it?

Company says they are making a new GaaS, sony just go and buy them, no questions. That's how Jim Ryan used to operate.

 

[cormack12]

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Translation:
We released an unfinished game and now we are desperately trying to save it.

 

[RafterXL]

Translation:
We released an unfinished game and now we are desperately trying to save it.

I mean, it is part of the omega genre, how could it possibly fail?

 

[Signalis]

Can you explain what I'm not seeing?

How delusional you are. I've said it before, but you do not seem to live in a healthy reality.

 

[Hari Seldon]

No, I'm curious why you think I'm wrong.

I am not that person but I'll give it a shot. You are wrong because the main part of this genre, the extraction part, is the thing that everyone except the sweats hate. Sure, if you make a different game and make the extraction part inconsequential, normies might like it. But that is not an extraction game, it is a game in a different genre where extraction is just one mode, which is exactly what everyone has been saying.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I am not that person but I'll give it a shot. You are wrong because the main part of this genre, the extraction part, is the thing that everyone except the sweats hate. Sure, if you make a different game and make the extraction part inconsequential, normies might like it. But that is not an extraction game, it is a game in a different genre where extraction is just one mode, which is exactly what everyone has been saying.

ARC Raiders is a massively successful Extraction game. It was massively successful because more than just sweats liked it.

Marathon will always struggle with being a hot (punishing PvP) game.

ARC Raiders is significantly cooler, though still warm.

There's massive unexplored territory on the other side of ARC Raiders. This is where Zelda-esque Extraction resides.

 

[zaga]

Translation:
We released an unfinished game and now we are desperately trying to save it.

The Dire Marsh Sponsored Kit version actually sounds pretty good to me. I have a bunch of Dire Marsh quests that I can not do because I just keep running into squads of purple shielded rooftop snipers. Maybe I can do the quests now…

 

[zaga]

Instead of resetting progress in Season 2, Bungie should just add a weekly rotation of free kit only maps. Then they could avoid pissing off 99% of the player base.