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[viveks86]

Next gen should be (and will be) Fidelity 60fps, Performance modes targeting 120fps.

This is too unrealistic. The best we can hope for is if next gen has 40 fps as the floor (and 30 fps only for unsupported TVs) with an option to unlock the framerate with VRR. If you really want PT to flourish next gen, 60 fps is too much to ask for as the minimum. Might be possible with a PS6 Pro, but not anytime soon. Performance mode can certainly hit 120 fps with frame gen (with native framerates in the 60-80 range).

 

[kevboard]

Yeah it's also a different developer, Spider-Man 2's experimental RT get's better performance than Alan Wake 2 as well, i'd expect CDPR to deliver way better reflections than Remedy did with AW2.

so, the digital foundry video is out, and the RT reflecions are even more limited than I could have imagined

only applied to cars... that's an even more extreme downgrade than what we saw in AW2

 

[Tajaz2426]

PS5 Pro bros are eating good

I was just playing on PC with it modded, excited to see what it looks like on the pro.

 

[Spukc]

 

[Vick]

Sure, if you count MFG. Base frame rates are way more likely to be 30/40/60 than 60/120 unless you mean last-gen or last-last-gen games.

No one's gonna spend a grand for a Console to play games at 30fps interpolated to 60fps. Going to feel and especially look like shit.
Hardware would be dead on arrival. Everyone would be mocking the comparisons with PS5 Pro.

Actual 60fps Fidelity (like 99% of Pro games today), with maybe a little bit MFG from drops in the 50's to help maintain it on super demanding Path Tracing games.
More extensive MFG use for 120fps modes.

Anything less than this would be a huge and colossal disappointment, personally. But I've heard Cerny, we should be good.

This is too unrealistic. The best we can hope for is if next gen has 40 fps as the floor (and 30 fps only for unsupported TVs) with an option to unlock the framerate with VRR. If you really want PT to flourish next gen, 60 fps is too much to ask for as the minimum. Might be possible with a PS6 Pro, but not anytime soon. Performance mode can certainly hit 120 fps with frame gen (with native framerates in the 60-80 range).

I have faith.
Have faith in the fact it would be as expensive as it needs to allow for it.

30fps PS6..

Just the mere presence or mention of it would be rightfully mocked till the end of time after an entire 60fps generation. Path Tracing or not.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

No. The difference in both visual quality and performance hit between maxed out standard ray tracing and path tracing is huge in Cyberpunk. The standard ray tracing still looks fantastic and was best-in-class before CDProjekt Red implemented the path tracing mode.

I had to use frame gen on a 5080 for path tracing (4k dlss quality 60fps).

 

[CrustyBritches]

No one's gonna spend a grand for a Console to play games at 30fps interpolated to 60fps. Going to feel and especially look like shit.
Hardware would be dead on arrival. Everyone would be mocking the comparisons with PS5 Pro.

Actual 60fps Fidelity (like 99% of Pro games today), with maybe a little bit MFG from drops in the 50's to help maintain it on super demanding Path Tracing games.
More extensive MFG use for 120fps modes.

Anything less than this would be a huge and colossal disappointment, personally. But I've heard Cerny, we should be good.

You've lost me here. I think when you're saying 'Fidelity'(Quality) you mean base PS5 'Quality' mode, but that's not the same as base PS6 'Quality'. You'd need a PS6 Pro to run that at 60fps without FG/MFG.

So like I said, you might get 60/120fps baseline with FG/MFG. I never suggested that they do that, I'm telling you the only way you'll get your wish. I'm ok with 30fps 'Quality', 40fps 'Quality/Balanced', and 60fps 'Performance'. Maybe with a FG/MFG optional toggle. System-wide AFMF toggle would be cool, too.

There's no reason not to include sub-60fps modes for higher image quality.

Pointless to argue until we see next-gen PS6 games and what modes they have available. Let's bookmark this and return to the discussion in a few years.

 

[Fafalada]

How much the reflections had to be dialed back in Alan Wake 2 due to CPU issues.

I remember Remedy's deep dive on RT (Pro, but breaking down their pipeline in general) and how GPU focused/limited the entire thing was(yes, all of it, especially BVH updates and manipulation).

But I guess that's an optional watch when we want to perpetuate urban myths.

 

[kevboard]

I remember Remedy's deep dive on RT (Pro, but breaking down their pipeline in general) and how GPU focused/limited the entire thing was(yes, all of it, especially BVH updates and manipulation).

But I guess that's an optional watch when we want to perpetuate urban myths.

urban myths? dude... they simplified the BVH, reduced the update rate of dynamic objects, reduced BVH draw distance, and reduced the rays per pixel... what "urban myth" am I perpetuating here?

they ray count reduction was GPU based, everything else was clearly a CPU optimisation

 

[Steve Holt]

PS5 Pro stays winning. Glad to see it.

 

[Mr Moose]

urban myths? dude... they simplified the BVH, reduced the update rate of dynamic objects, reduced BVH draw distance, and reduced the rays per pixel... what "urban myth" am I perpetuating here?

they ray count reduction was GPU based, everything else was clearly a CPU optimisation

What's wrong with Alan Wake 2s CPU performance?

 

[kevboard]

What's wrong with Alan Wake 2s CPU performance?

on PS5 Pro in order to have RT Reflecions they had to massively simplify the BVH compared to PC, very likely due to CPU constraints of the Zen2 CPU of the Pro.

dynamic objects only update 15 times a second, basically all distant meshes except for a very simplified terrain is culled, and some elements are missing entirely.

 

[Mr Moose]

on PS5 Pro in order to have RT Reflecions they had to massively simplify the BVH compared to PC, very likely due to CPU constraints of the Zen2 CPU of the Pro.

dynamic objects only update 15 times a second, basically all distant meshes except for a very simplified terrain is culled, and some elements are missing entirely.

I have a 3600, I'll download it and check.

 

[kevboard]

I have a 3600, I'll download it and check.

the 3600 is a bit more powerful than the console CPUs. the Console Zen2 variants have less cache and don't clock as high as the 3600. they are more comparable to laptop grade Zen2 chips, so almost Zen+ esque.

but I'm curious how it would run on it

 

[Vick]

You've lost me here. I think when you're saying 'Fidelity'(Quality) you mean base PS5 'Quality' mode, but that's not the same as base PS6 'Quality'. You'd need a PS6 Pro to run that at 60fps without FG/MFG.

So like I said, you might get 60/120fps baseline with FG/MFG. I never suggested that they do that, I'm telling you the only way you'll get your wish. I'm ok with 30fps 'Quality', 40fps 'Quality/Balanced', and 60fps 'Performance'. Maybe with a FG/MFG optional toggle. System-wide AFMF toggle would be cool, too.

It is a bit of a mess indeed.

What I'm saying is, often, on PS5 Pro there's one mode (that I called Fidelity) that runs at 60fps. This is not always related to base PS5, it could be a different mode altogether which, recently thanks to PSSR, even actually surpasses base PS5 Fidelity modes. And then, Performance modes that go above, some targeting 120fps.

This is what should happen next gen as well. Nothing under 60fps.

There's no reason not to include sub-60fps modes for higher image quality.

There is, if you want 30fps to be dead completely as I do.

Hopefully, the same principles preventing 600p/25fps Path Tracing modes on current consoles will be the ones keeping 30fps modes off next-gen hardware entirely.

 

[MrAlwaysRight]

so, the digital foundry video is out, and the RT reflecions are even more limited than I could have imagined

only applied to cars... that's an even more extreme downgrade than what we saw in AW2

Did you watch it? it's not limited to cars, Alex said it was limited to the windows on cars, but it's not it's material based, pretty standard.

 

[FUBARx89]

PS5 Pro only coverage?

Pfffffft. AI taking away Adams job of DF summaries regardless of console. It's a dark day in my opinion.

 

[kevboard]

Did you watch it? it's not limited to cars, Alex said it was limited to the windows on cars, but it's not it's material based, pretty standard.

well, it seems it's literally just cars (not just car windows but also on mirror like paint)

unless they completely missed that it's also on other perfect mirror like surfaces... I doubt that tho since those are everywhere in the city (almost every building is covered with mirrror like glass surfaces)

but hey, that's at least seemingly not a CPU limitation, unless of course they are hiding a massively reduced draw distance and the removal of elements from the BVH precisely due to only being applied to cars, which would make these reductions less obvious.

realtime cubemaps on cars are usually also very reduced on both draw distance and dynamic elements inside them for this exact reason that it's less obvious from normal angles.

 

[Fafalada]

they simplified the BVH, reduced the update rate of dynamic objects, reduced BVH draw distance, and reduced the rays per pixel...

Because that was what they were able to get out of the GPU. Basically everything about the pipeline - including BVH draw-distance carries a GPU cost for them, and they explained 'at length' how they worked with the Pro there, including costs of BVH operations on the GPU in miliseconds.

This isn't to say no game would be CPU constrained in certain operations - but AW2 was specifically explained by the developer as not being one.

dude...

I'm not the one making claims that go explicitly against the dev here, I mean if you're saying they're in the wrong - by all means, substantiate how.

 

[kevboard]

Because that was what they were able to get out of the GPU. Basically everything about the pipeline - including BVH draw-distance carries a GPU cost for them, and they explained 'at length' how they worked with the Pro there, including costs of BVH operations on the GPU in miliseconds.

This isn't to say no game would be CPU constrained in certain operations - but AW2 was specifically explained by the developer as not being one.

having RT Reflections always impacts CPU performance simply due to the fact that less static and dynamic objects can be culled from the scene.

so even if we ignore the BVH, we are still looking at increased draw calls of what would be off-screen elements, which in some scenarios could mean having essentially 2 entire viewpoints worth of NPCs, buildings, distant trees etc. in view that all need to be rendered, because a window next to you acting like a rearview mirror that covers half the screen.

I bet it was a combination of both GPU and CPU in AW2.

 

[Fafalada]

having RT Reflections always impacts CPU performance simply due to the fact that less static and dynamic objects can be culled from the scene.

Yes circular reasoning explains everything.
'Draw calls' in context of RT are literally BVH updates, the thing I now - for the 3rd time in a row, on repeat - AW2 performs as a GPU accelerated task (and spends a large portion of frame time on said GPU work).

 

[Mr Moose]

the 3600 is a bit more powerful than the console CPUs. the Console Zen2 variants have less cache and don't clock as high as the 3600. they are more comparable to laptop grade Zen2 chips, so almost Zen+ esque.

but I'm curious how it would run on it

Had to get out of the forest area and now I am in a room with pictures and mirrors.
RT off

Low

High (which apparently has some PT stuff)

Off

Low

High

 

[Astray]

Duuuude I had a feeling this was going to drop during Starfield time

FUCK!

It's like CDPR were determined to fuck over Todd Howard lmao.

 

[Danjin44]

Best update would have been having 3rd person option like RE9 did.

You have such a detail character creation and yet 90% of the time we just looking at the hands.

 

[Gaiff]

Only in the 30 fps mode and there was no way to run it unlocked.

Ended up playing on performance mode, which is now locked 60 on pro.

Ah, sucks. I was tempted to take it on PS5 for my Pro too. The base game is $10 and the expansions are like $3 and $5. The complete edition is $28 weirdly enough. It's cheaper to just buy everything separately with the current sale on the PS Store.

I'm trying to find reasons to use it. I want Saros, but I still got stuff to finish lol.

 

[Flabagast]

Ah, sucks. I was tempted to take it on PS5 for my Pro too. The base game is $10 and the expansions are like $3 and $5. The complete edition is $28 weirdly enough. It's cheaper to just buy everything separately with the current sale on the PS Store.

I'm trying to find reasons to use it. I want Saros, but I still got stuff to finish lol.

No, the 30 fps mode was initially RT Local Shadows only (no RTGI), and has been unlocked via a VRR option in a patch from last year

edit: dismiss, I thought we were talking about CP77

 

[viveks86]

Ah, sucks. I was tempted to take it on PS5 for my Pro too. The base game is $10 and the expansions are like $3 and $5. The complete edition is $28 weirdly enough. It's cheaper to just buy everything separately with the current sale on the PS Store.

I'm trying to find reasons to use it. I want Saros, but I still got stuff to finish lol.

I never found the RTGI impressive in that game tbh. There are areas where it shines, but others where it either just looks different or worse because the lighting wasn't setup right for natural light bounce within the scene. There were a couple of tier 2 cutscenes in huts and caves where the characters were plunged in complete darkness and you couldn't even see them. Was gorgeous in performance mode with the locked 60 and resolution going all the way up. Still worth the purchase on pro imo, if you haven't played it already

 

[viveks86]

No, the 30 fps mode was initially RT Local Shadows only (no RTGI), and has been unlocked via a VRR option in a patch from last year

Ha… may be I'm wrong about vrr as I don't have a tv capable of it. But it certainly had RTGI. Are you confusing this with Cyberpunk? We are talking about TW3

 

[Flabagast]

Ha… may be I'm wrong about vrr as I don't have a tv capable of it. But it certainly had RTGI. Are you confusing this with Cyberpunk? We are talking about TW3

Oh man sorry I thought it was Cyberpunk. you are 100% right then, and indeed the RT mode is 30 fps capped for TW3

My apologies

 

[Gaiff]

I never found the RTGI impressive in that game tbh. There are areas where it shines, but others where it either just looks different or worse because the lighting wasn't setup right for natural light bounce within the scene. There were a couple of tier 2 cutscenes in huts and caves where the characters were plunged in complete darkness and you couldn't even see them. Was gorgeous in performance mode with the locked 60 and resolution going all the way up. Still worth the purchase on pro imo, if you haven't played it already

Already beat it on PC a few times, but never the next-gen version. Just browsing the store looking for something to buy for my Pro that isn't GT7, Astro Bot, or Demon's Souls. Other stuff like Rift Apart, Uncharted 4, and GOWR, I have it on PC or sometimes even on PS5. None of the Sony offerings grab me and only Saros in the near future ticks my fancy. There's GTA 6, but not sure it's actually coming out in 2026.

 

[FalconPunch]

on PS5 Pro in order to have RT Reflecions they had to massively simplify the BVH compared to PC, very likely due to CPU constraints of the Zen2 CPU of the Pro.

dynamic objects only update 15 times a second, basically all distant meshes except for a very simplified terrain is culled, and some elements are missing entirely.

Remedy games are usually unoptimized pieces of trash for below average graphics. This is true for Alan Wake and for Quantum break. When it comes to technical/artistic competence, its hard to find a studio as incompetent as remedy.

They program their games like they write their narratives, an incoherent unnecessary mess.

A great example of this is the post by Mr Moose :

Had to get out of the forest area and now I am in a room with pictures and mirrors.
RT off

Low

High (which apparently has some PT stuff)

Off

Low

High

Look at these rubbish reflections which all look inferior to planer reflections but cost an obscene amount....

 

[Gaiff]

Remedy games are usually unoptimized pieces of trash for below average graphics. This is true for Alan Wake and for Quantum break. When it comes to technical/artistic competence, its hard to find a studio as incompetent as remedy.

They program their games like they write their narratives, an incoherent unnecessary mess.

Remedy games below average graphics? I've seen it all.

 

[viveks86]

Already beat it on PC a few times, but never the next-gen version. Just browsing the store looking for something to buy for my Pro that isn't GT7, Astro Bot, or Demon's Souls. Other stuff like Rift Apart, Uncharted 4, and GOWR, I have it on PC or sometimes even on PS5. None of the Sony offerings grab me and only Saros in the near future ticks my fancy. There's GTA 6, but not sure it's actually coming out in 2026.

Stellar blade, Jedi survivor and until dawn remake are all I got as recommendations for the pro if you already don't have them on pc. Yeah it has been slim pickings this generation…

 

[FalconPunch]

Remedy games below average graphics? I've seen it all.

If you think wasting gpu resources to produce results that are marginally better than games that use a fraction of the computational resources are impressive, then sure.

Remedy games have poor graphics when compared to their computational cost. Like clock work every single time. I have yet to be impressed by the graphics in any of their games.

Artstyle? Yes, it's good. Graphics, no way.

 

[kevboard]

Remedy games are usually unoptimized pieces of trash for below average graphics. This is true for Alan Wake and for Quantum break. When it comes to technical/artistic competence, its hard to find a studio as incompetent as remedy.

They program their games like they write their narratives, an incoherent unnecessary mess.

A great example of this is the post by Mr Moose :


Look at these rubbish reflections which all look inferior to planer reflections but cost an obscene amount....

the reflections looking this bad is an issue with their materials not with the raytraying itself.

the mirror there clearly has a rough and wavy material applied for some fucking reason.
if you look into reflections on store windows on PC they look absolutely fine, because those actually have a fully mirror like material with no weird bends or anything.

their games run relatively well for what they do, but they aren't the best.

you could run Control with RT reflections on higher end GTX10 series cards for example, at playable framerates, even tho the raytraying was fully done on the shaders.
so the RT performance isn't outrageous.


but I do agree that it's an absolute joke that they don't use planar reflections in that scene, as it's a small room with not much happening. should be absolutely easily doable here.

but RT reflections always look worse than planar reflections, unless you use enough rays per pixel and no denoising.

 

[Perrott]

Already beat it on PC a few times, but never the next-gen version. Just browsing the store looking for something to buy for my Pro that isn't GT7, Astro Bot, or Demon's Souls. Other stuff like Rift Apart, Uncharted 4, and GOWR, I have it on PC or sometimes even on PS5. None of the Sony offerings grab me and only Saros in the near future ticks my fancy. There's GTA 6, but not sure it's actually coming out in 2026.

In case like yours, the ownership of a powerful PC largely defeats the purpose of a Pro across 95% of the library. I don't can't think of many PS5-only titles that'd be greatly enhanced by the Pro (either via official patches or boost mode) other than Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition in its RT quality mode and Silent Hill: The Short Message, both of which benefit from higher performance of their unlocked framerates via boost mode.

 

[Gaiff]

Stellar blade, Jedi survivor and until dawn remake are all I got as recommendations for the pro if you already don't have them on pc. Yeah it has been slim pickings this generation…

Good call for Jedi Survivor. I think it's still a bit of a mess on PC. Reminds me that Callisto Protocol looks nice on the Pro as well and still stutters like hell on PC.

In case like yours, the ownership of a powerful PC largely defeats the purpose of a Pro across 95% of the library. I don't can't think of many PS5-only titles that'd be greatly enhanced by the Pro (either via official patches or boost mode) other than Devil May Cry 5: Special Edition in its RT quality mode and Silent Hill: The Short Message, both of which benefit from higher performance of their unlocked framerates via boost mode.

Yeah, I kinda knew this getting into this, but I was expecting Sony to have better first-party offerings than this. Words cannot describe how uninterested I am in their games. I think I'll give GOY a go when it's on sale. Tsushima was alright, but not a game I'd pay full price for.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah, I kinda knew this getting into this, but I was expecting Sony to have better first-party offerings than this. Words cannot describe how uninterested I am in their games. I think I'll give GOY a go when it's on sale. Tsushima was alright, but not a game I'd pay full price for.

This is insane talk lol. What about Death Stranding 2?

 

[Gaiff]

This is insane talk lol. What about Death Stranding 2?

How is this insane? It's another open world. GOT is full of copy/pasted content and has like 4 enemy types. Just because it has a Sony badge doesn't make it great.

Death Stranding is one of the most boring games I've ever played, so, no. Plus, it's on PC.

 

[Tomorrow]

Hope they can add some new graphic features to PC. Maxed out on path tracing I can do 220fps. Wouldn't mind going down to 140 or so if they made it look even better. On PC it's still one of the best looking games out there.

I'm happy for consoles getting some improvements even if it's not path tracing and higher fps at 40

 

[Gaiff]

Hope they can add some new graphic features to PC. Maxed out on path tracing I can do 220fps. Wouldn't mind going down to 140 or so if they made it look even better. On PC it's still one of the best looking games out there.

I'm happy for consoles getting some improvements even if it's not path tracing and higher fps at 40

220fps with what? DLSS Ultra Performance and 4x FG?

 

[Anchovie123]

Are there seriously people who would rather play at 40fps over the 70-90fps mode?

 

[Spukc]

220fps with what? DLSS Ultra Performance and 4x FG?

In his mind

 

[CrustyBritches]

Are there seriously people who would rather play at 40fps over the 70-90fps mode?

This isn't exactly a twitch shooter. I would rather have the suite of RT effects at 40fps/120Hz than no RT and high frame rate in this game for sure.

 

[Justin9mm]

Best update would have been having 3rd person option like RE9 did.

You have such a detail character creation and yet 90% of the time we just looking at the hands.

You can't patch that lol.. That is a design feature that needed to be in development from the start.. This is an example where people don't have an understanding on how development actually works.

 

[Danjin44]

You can't patch that lol.. That is a design feature that needed to be in development from the start.. This is an example where people don't have an understanding on how development actually works.

Capcom did that with RE8, it wasn't perfect but it could be done.

 

[RSMan]

Update should be live any minute now?

 

[yogaflame]

Maybe its time for another dlc or expansion at least one last time.

 

[CrustyBritches]

One of great things about this game is cross progression. I have it on PC, Switch 2, and PS5 Pro. You can seamlessly switch between platforms depending on where you feel like playing. Makes double or triple dipping when you find it at a good price an easy decision.

 

[hussar16]

No overdrive ray tracing which is path tracing sucks