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[reinking]

You would be very wrong, Play Anywhere is the most demanded feature for Xbox Community. Sure, most are not likely to have both gaming PCs in addition to consoles but they sure as hell have Gaming Laptops or simply Gaming Capable Laptops, and now with the handhelds, a unified ecosystem is must.

I might be wrong. I have no problem with that and have no personal stake in the outcome. I am just going by my outside of the bubble acquaintances. Listening to them, if MS does not do this right, PC PC PC could turn into TV TV TV. They are tuned out of the PC hybrid talk.

 

[Topher]

Out of all the things pointed out that's the only one that caught your attention.

What are you talking about? We had already talked about the "put a pin it" stuff. I saw no need to rehash that. You seem desperate for a "gotcha" here.

 

[Kacho]

I don't think they're gonna do any kind of form factor or final spec reveal at this talk, at most they're gonna talk broadly about their aims and goals with what they want the next hardware to be, as in the whole hybrid situation. I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't much discussed either.




That's fine. Out of all the things pointed out that's the only one that caught your attention. I guess we're done about it for now.

Yep. I'm expecting a high-level overview of what the machine can do and how it fits in their broader plan.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I don't think they're gonna do any kind of form factor or final spec reveal at this talk, at most they're gonna talk broadly about their aims and goals with what they want the next hardware to be, as in the whole hybrid situation. I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't much discussed either.

They are announcing the way games will need to be coded for that machine

=

They will announce the pivot to Windows PC

And that's all that matters here

Nobody cares about the specs or the form factor

 

[adamsapple]

They are announcing the way games will need to be coded for that machine

=

They will announce the pivot to Windows PC

And that's all that matters here

Nobody cares about the specs or the form factor

Funny.

You seem to care about relative specs when it comes to the Steam Machine.

LOL

 

[MisterXDTV]

Funny.

You seem to care about relative specs when it comes to the Steam Machine.

LOL

Why are you quoting this, exactly?

I didn't know you were a PCMR....

Until MS told you to become one 3 days ago

LOL

 

[adamsapple]

Why are you quoting this, exactly?

I guess specs are important, until they aren't.

 

[demigod]

Series S is designed for 1440p per Microsoft:

Compare Xbox Series X vs. Xbox Series S Consoles | Xbox

See the difference between Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S. Compare features of these next-gen consoles like gaming resolution, specs, prices, and more.

www.xbox.com

Bro didnt know what the series s was advertised at but wants to make shit up.

 

[CJ_Bizzle]

Unifying Theory of Helix:

Let's read between the lines of what we know regarding official statements, and what appears to be true in terms of leaks. Given Amy Hood's 30% profitability mandate, rising hardware and game development costs, as well as underperformance of the Xbox division, Microsoft is facing an uphill battle. We need to keep in mind that they are a software and services company. Even though Helix will be sold for a profit, they wouldn't be likely to have a series of non-OEM devices in the pipeline for the primary sake of hardware profit, as the opportunity cost of not investing this into AI is high. Microsoft has to balance these realities with an emotional fanbase and high regulatory scrutiny, but the appeal of this device will be relatively niche for a traditional home console and designed for maximum LTV for the customers they do attract (which appears to be a large factor as to why Asha Sharma was given the role). The addition of Steam/Epic is smart from a marketing perspective, as well as defense against anti-trust litigation, as Microsoft begins to blur the lines between Xbox and PC.

Game Pass Essential is a large revenue stream that also acts as an on-ramp to Premium and Ultimate. Removing the online paywall renders Essential useless, and does not seem conceivable when you look at their tiering synergy and crunch the numbers. Paid online is anti-consumer but has been the status quo on console for a long time, and doesn't make sense from a consumer or regulatory perspective to scrap in favor of a new profitability lever or pushing another to the limits, especially with the ability to gradually raise prices. The only way I see paid online being removed is when cloud gaming becomes the primary avenue for the mainstream market, in which consoles won't have much of a place anyways besides maybe Nintendo.

For paid online to be feasible with the addition of third-party storefronts being added, it would only seem possible that games from Steam/Epic exist on Helix as a license authentication check to then be downloaded as a UWP. The UWP format would also help to ensure that games are optimized in the way that the console audience has become accustomed to rather than tinkering with dozens of settings. This however, also gives publishers the right to opt-out of Helix even if their games exist on Steam/Epic the way they can on GFN. Why did Sarah Bond say that Xbox is "working" to bring 3rd party storefronts to their next gen console when no work needs to be done if they already exist on Windows?

Another reason Helix appears to be a Xbox/PC hybrid, as opposed to the Xbox Ally which runs unrestricted Windows, is backwards compatibility licensing. It has been strongly suggested that Helix will be backwards compatible, and buy-in for PlayAnywhere has been very limited. Legally, it does not appear possible that Microsoft can simply allow for third-party Xbox games to run on or be emulated by unrestricted Windows, or else they likely would have done this already with the Xbox Ally.

The FSE will help to tie all of these games into one launcher. Adding backwards compatible Xbox games to this launcher is also a smart way to help customers become comfortable in terms of having a fragmented PC library, rather than being fully loyal to Steam. Without any sort of exclusivity though, the appeal of the Microsoft/Xbox store, as well as Game Pass Ultimate, are diminished. Microsoft will feature their store more heavily from the UI, but customers are not dumb and will shop around if given the ability. Timed exclusivity of 6-12 months for 1st party games (barring ABK and some live service games) looks to be a sensible middle-ground. Microsoft can capture the full 100% of sales revenue during a game's initial release hype, drive and sustain Game Pass Ultimate subscriptions, and then maximize sales volume on other platforms with a unified marketing push. Transparency in terms of this strategy will be critical to avoid backlash and confusion. Owning games from the Microsoft/Xbox store (or relying primarily on Game Pass) also defends against users having a reason to pivot to SteamOS, which will become a serious threat once it comes to desktop (full modern anti-cheat support on SteamOS will become standard but warrants a separate post).

Please let me know your thoughts!

 

[adamsapple]

Bro didnt know what the series s was advertised at but wants to make shit up.

er .. how often has the true 4K moniker lived up to the advertisement, not to mention the boxed 4K/120 advertisement or native 8K support etc etc.

the only one game that did 8k was also down-scaled cause the fucking SYSTEMS don't have 8K support in the video settings.

never fall for marketing, even with Helix, let them officially reveal the specs, don't blindly believe what MLiD is saying either, and you'll be fine.

 

[demigod]

er .. how often has the true 4K moniker lived up to the advertisement, not to mention the boxed 4K/120 advertisement or native 8K support etc etc.

the only one game that did 8k was also down-scaled cause the fucking SYSTEMS don't have 8K support in the video settings.

never fall for marketing, even with Helix, let them officially reveal the specs, don't blindly believe what MLiD is saying either, and you'll be fine.

I'm talking about the 1440p. Native 4k was never happening.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm talking about the 1440p.

Right, same.

Series S is as much a 1440p machine as Series X and PS5 are 4K machines. There are a few games here and there that maximize that spec on all those consoles, but with games like RE Requiem running 1080p on PS5/SX, how can literally anyone expect them to even sniff 1440p on Series S.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Bro didnt know what the series s was advertised at but wants to make shit up.

Never forget, this guy is the same one that is presenting Xbox PC in 2 days



MS deleted this video from the Xbox official channel

You have to find it on IGN's channel

 

[Fafalada]

The UWP format would also help to ensure that games are optimized in the way that the console audience has become accustomed to rather than tinkering with dozens of settings. This however, also gives publishers the right to opt-out of Helix

This would be equivalent of not having those stores available at all. Steam has somewhere around 100k titles on its store now - saying 'you'll get 0.01% of that - maybe - at launch, is the kind of bad message only MS PR could dream up... oh wait...

But I digress - if they're actually serious about selling the 'console ecosystem' at all (the jury is still out on this being real IMO) it's far more likely to expose users to all that tinkering for non curated (anything that isn't on MS store) titles, let the other stores come full force with all their negatives as well. It would actually give MS ecosystem a reason to exist and users to care beyond timed exclusivity of titles that are increasingly less culturally relevant.

The FSE will help to tie all of these games into one launcher. Adding backwards compatible Xbox games to this launcher is also a smart way to help customers become comfortable in terms of having a fragmented PC library, rather than being fully loyal to Steam.

I do think this would be neat - but I speak as the 0.001% user that has all the weirdest tastes. Like when Samsung built their Android / Windows hybrid that MS and co. later killed because of licensing nightmare it offered. But the genuine coolness of Android native (no emulation nonsense) apps inside a Windows desktop was hard to resist to someone like me.

 

[Fess]

That is the old way of thinking for us enthusiasts that spend time following this stuff closely. Anecdotal, I do not know a console only gamer that cares about the PC side of things. Maybe the Jez's of the world will reach them before the Helix comes out but I think we are still a generation away before console gamers start coming around. If they do.

I think that's exactly why they build Xbox Helix.

Next generation - Let console gamers calmly walk the bridge over to PC over a generation on Xbox Helix, without feeling like they're losing access to their old console library.

Next next gen - Go full PC. Xbox is PC, PC is Xbox. Software emulation can take care of all the old Xbox console stuff on any Windows PC.

 

[CJ_Bizzle]

This would be equivalent of not having those stores available at all. Steam has somewhere around 100k titles on its store now - saying 'you'll get 0.01% of that - maybe - at launch, is the kind of bad message only MS PR could dream up... oh wait...

But I digress - if they're actually serious about selling the 'console ecosystem' at all (the jury is still out on this being real IMO) it's far more likely to expose users to all that tinkering for non curated (anything that isn't on MS store) titles, let the other stores come full force with all their negatives as well. It would actually give MS ecosystem a reason to exist and users to care beyond timed exclusivity of titles that are increasingly less culturally relevant.


I do think this would be neat - but I speak as the 0.001% user that has all the weirdest tastes. Like when Samsung built their Android / Windows hybrid that MS and co. later killed because of licensing nightmare it offered. But the genuine coolness of Android native (no emulation nonsense) apps inside a Windows desktop was hard to resist to someone like me.

Those are very good points regarding the issue with forcing UWP. Maybe it's just a matter of applying a simple wrapper and then optimized games with simplified graphics settings would be tagged (like the optimized for Series X|S designation) but yes if they roll out with .01% game support, that will be terrible in terms of PR.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Those are very good points regarding the issue with forcing UWP. Maybe it's just a matter of applying a simple wrapper and then optimized games with simplified graphics settings would be tagged (like the optimized for Series X|S designation) but yes if they roll out with .01% game support, that will be terrible in terms of PR.

You ARE aware that UWP is deprecated right?

They're not going to require Steam or Epic games to be packaged, if MS wants, they can have those games run in containers.

 

[reinking]

I think that's exactly why they build Xbox Helix.

Next generation - Let console gamers calmly walk the bridge over to PC over a generation on Xbox Helix, without feeling like they're losing access to their old console library.

Next next gen - Go full PC. Xbox is PC, PC is Xbox. Software emulation can take care of all the old Xbox console stuff on any Windows PC.

I think it has potential to work on current Xbox gamers (definitely the fanatics). We will have to see if the strategy can attract the PlayStation and Nintendo gamers of the world. Maybe it will convince Sony to tip their toes back into the laptop market.

 

[mayham2199]

I don't get this. Why does it matter if it's a console or not???

As long as it's built to be connected to a TV and can play the games you've bought on Xbox and also play games you've bought on Steam and freeloaded from Epic etc - What's the actual problem?


The day I docked a Steam Deck to the TV I started drifting away from the usual consoles.
+ It felt like a console but wasn't restricted like a console.
- The only problem was the performance.


Then I built a PC for the living room to not be limited by power, booted it into Steam BPM.
+ It felt like a console, was silent like a console, was more powerful than a console, had access to more content than a console.
- The only problem was that dealing with outer launchers and browsing Gamepass was a hurdle.


Then I swapped to boot into Playnite. Upgraded the graphics card because I could. This is where I'm at now.
+ It feels like a console, is more silent than a console, more powerful than probably all the next gen consoles, I have easy access to all launchers libraries for browsing and installing and playing, including Gamepass.
- The only problem is that I can't access my old console games.


The last bit will supposedly be fixed with Helix, at least for the Xbox library, the PlayStation library is kinda lost I guess.
And I really couldn't care less if it's defined as a console or PC or car or hamburger.
Why is that so important so it's always a talking point around this device? I don't get it

Yea this is exactly what I did when I was PC gaming. It was great for the most part but I didn't like how trophies/achievements essentially became useless to me and it was hard to get more info on what I needed. Also joining friends in a party\chat is still a PIA with a controller. Also some games still shipping on PC with no controller support while also having a console version it makes no sense. Start Citizen did this to me and I didn't understand why.

I don't get why people are obsessed with the console\PC debate either.

We will have to see if the strategy can attract the PlayStation and Nintendo gamers of the world. Maybe it will convince Sony to tip their toes back into the laptop market.

It wont and it wasn't meant to do that.

 

[CJ_Bizzle]

You ARE aware that UWP is deprecated right?

They're not going to require Steam or Epic games to be packaged, if MS wants, they can have those games run in containers.

I mean in a general sense for packaging/sandboxing titles, but my overall point is that they need a mechanism to help simplify graphics settings for optimized titles as well as enforce paid online.

 

[Fafalada]

They're not going to require Steam or Epic games to be packaged, if MS wants, they can have those games run in containers.

I always felt containerization of installation packages is something everyone (Valve wholly included) dropped the ball on for - well the entire time.
There's nothing more annoying on PC than having installers run and mysterious errors break a new installation (or another existing one) because of the way things interact or some trace record on the target PC. MS had their own history of absolute pain there where THEIR own application installers would sometimes break one another - but for games it's particularly annoying that the installers exist at all, where you could literally ship a local environment for every game that is perfectly setup to work out of the box, no waiting on mysterious dos-prompts and other installers to run (or fail to run).

Ok - to be fair, the one thing preventing this on Windows has been Microsoft's own policies (I've shipped some software that circumvented this but only by obscurity) - but if anyone can violate those it's themselves.

 

[Fess]

We will have to see if the strategy can attract the PlayStation and Nintendo gamers of the world.

That ain't happening. People have already chosen where to have their investment. This will sell to old Xbox gamers who don't want to swap to PlayStation and rebuild their whole game library. Possibly to some PC gamers too who're looking for a convenient and decently powerful SFF prebuild for the living room, if Steam Machine turns out to be too weak.

 

[Tobimacoss]

That ain't happening. People have already chosen where to have their investment. This will sell to old Xbox gamers who don't want to swap to PlayStation and rebuild their whole game library. Possibly to some PC gamers too who're looking for a convenient and decently powerful SFF prebuilds for the living room, if Steam Machine turns out to be too weak.

New gamers are born every day. Currently, xCloud is bringing in tons of gamers from Brazil and India and other developing regions into the ecosystem when they Buy and Stream.

Free Multiplayer can absolutely get them the COD and other shooter crowd back slowly away from PS. Even the EA FC crowd.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

If it can play my Steam games... Why would I bother buying Xbox games which is usually more expensive? Also, are there two internal parts of this system? One for PC games, and another for Xbox emulation for Xbox games? Can someone please explain?

I mean you are essentially having 2 systems in one. Just like before, you buy games where they are cheaper but at the same time you will have xbox only titles. I wouldnt be surprised if this Steam integration is to be believed, that they might offer a special discount for gamepass holders just on the xbox console. Who knows.

 

[GOKUSSJ2]

Never forget, this guy is the same one that is presenting Xbox PC in 2 days



MS deleted this video from the Xbox official channel

You have to find it on IGN's channel

This video aged like a milk

 

[Fess]

New gamers are born every day. Currently, xCloud is bringing in tons of gamers from Brazil and India and other developing regions into the ecosystem when they Buy and Stream.

Free Multiplayer can absolutely get them the COD and other shooter crowd back slowly away from PS. Even the EA FC crowd.

I think it's super tricky to get someone to swap at this point, free online or not.

However, I absolutely think enthusiast gamers could be interested, from all sides, if it's powerful and silent and easy to use emulators etc. Could be a fun device for sure. But this group usually have everything anyway so there is no swap happening, they probably already have a XSX they've stopped using.

Biggest group will definitely be old Xbox gamers.

And sure, some new gamers could get interested, assuming it get some positive word of mouth which will be a hill to climb considering how things sound right now.

What's your realistic life time sale prediction?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Spoiler

Monopolies are not inherently anticompetitive unless gained through illegal market practices. Exclusivity deals in exchange for platform growth between consenting companies (where competing platforms can also outbid for the same deals) is already ruled as a legal, competitive action in established markets including video games.

Stop regurgitating stupid talking points just because this shit is new to you.

 

[Three]

lol, come on man.

What does 'and redesign the the next machine, WHICH THEY AREN'T DOING AT ALL' mean?

Not to mention in the same paragraph, two lines down he mentions games releasing on PS5/6, Xbox Series and Steam, not Magnus or future HW. Next you're gonna say 'putting a pin in Xbox HW' had some deep meaning that I didn't understand either

At that point he'd convinced himself and some of you guys that there wasn't going to be a future Xbox HW.

It means they aren't doing the steps mentioned not they aren't doing hardware. Yes he mentions games releasing on older hardware and lists systems beyond magnus saying they weren't exclusive to their ecosystem:

"which aren't even going to be generationally exclusive (meaning they were gonna launch as PS5/6, Xbox Series, Switch 2, Steam, etc.), not even exclusive within its own ecosystem."


When he said
"and redesign the direction of the next machine" it means he knows there is a next machine but he's talking about exclusives.

 

[GOKUSSJ2]

 

[viveks86]

So is this GDC session going to be paywalled or is it going to be live broadcast for us peasants?

 

[Topher]

I'm thinking it will be $1499

 

[paolo11]

So this GPU of Xbox helix, what gpu can we compare it to? 5080? 5060?

 

[Tobimacoss]

I'm thinking it will be $1499

K KeplerL2 also stated the Bill of Materials at current DRAM and NAND prices is $900.

 

[GOKUSSJ2]

I'm thinking it will be $1499

Honnestly iIt would be far too expensive for a "console" at this price.
But anything is possible with Microsoft.

 

[Tobimacoss]

So this GPU of Xbox helix, what gpu can we compare it to? 5080? 5060?

K KeplerL2 stated slightly better than rtx 5080 tier in Raster. And MLID stated 5090 tier in Raytracing and Upscaling Capabilites.

 

[paolo11]

K KeplerL2 stated slightly better than rtx 5080 tier in Raster. And MLID stated 5090 tier in Raytracing and Upscaling Capabilites.

Wow 5090???? So basically if you want a pre-built PC console with 5090 , get the Helix?

 

[Topher]

K KeplerL2 also stated the Bill of Materials at current DRAM and NAND prices is $900.

I know. And Microsoft said this was a "premium" device so I'm expecting a premium price. I have no problem being wrong. I hope I am.

Honnestly iIt would be far too expensive for a "console" at this price.
But anything is possible with Microsoft.

Even $1299 is too expensive for a console.

 

[Ainem Enamas]

I really like the logo

 

[DeepEnigma]

K KeplerL2 stated slightly better than rtx 5080 tier in Raster. And MLID stated 5090 tier in Raytracing and Upscaling Capabilites.

MLiD also said the PS6 will easily saturate 4K/120 FPS with ray tracing.

He tends to overcompensate specs vs reality.

 

[Fess]

K KeplerL2 stated slightly better than rtx 5080 tier in Raster. And MLID stated 5090 tier in Raytracing and Upscaling Capabilites.

5080 raster and 5090 RT for $1200? lmao how?

 

[Topher]

MLiD also said the PS6 will easily saturate 4K/120 FPS with ray tracing.

He tends to overcompensate specs vs reality.

Yeah......all of this seems too good to be true for both PS6 and Magnus, frankly. Time to pump the brakes on this hype.

 

[adamsapple]

Yeah......all of this seems too good to be true for both PS6 and Magnus, frankly. Time to pump the brakes on this hype.

 

[Topher]

 

[Tobimacoss]

5080 raster and 5090 RT for $1200? lmao how?

It only costs Nvidia like $420 to build RTX 5080 which they sell for $999, 100% plus profit margins.

Magnus AT2 Helix APU costs like $500 and total BOM being $900. AMD has their 20% or whatever profit margins built in to whatever they sell to MS. And MS will supposedly according to Proelite sell those same APUs to OEMs at cost and OEMs build their own hardware and keep their own profit margins of 20-25%. So every1 involved gets some profits, MS getting an open platform built by OEMs.

 

[KeplerL2]

MLiD also said the PS6 will easily saturate 4K/120 FPS with ray tracing.

He tends to overcompensate specs vs reality.

MLID doesn't know how RT performance is measured so he thinks if a document says "4x faster RT" it means 4x higher FPS.

Also it's not clear if the RT performance estimates for RDNA5 include stuff like DGF (which wouldn't apply to any existing game).

 

[Topher]

MLID doesn't know how RT performance is measured so he thinks if a document says "4x faster RT" it means 4x higher FPS.

Also it's not clear if the RT performance estimates for RDNA5 include stuff like DGF (which wouldn't apply to any existing game).

So you don't think these 5080/5090 RT comparisons for PS6/Magnus make much sense?

 

[bender]

What are you talking about? We had already talked about the "put a pin it" stuff. I saw no need to rehash that. You seem desperate for a "gotcha" here.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Topher]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

inception gotcha. lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Havent kept up with all this Magnus stuff.

But how does it compare to the best PC sold now? Is it close? Or a top end PC still blows it away?

 

[PSFore]

Havent kept up with all this Magnus stuff.

But how does it compare to the best PC sold now? Is it close? Or a top end PC still blows it away?

Hard to say until RDNA 5 gets tested.