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Asha Sharma: Next Xbox Project Name: "Helix" - Will 'lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games'

Tobimacoss said:
Nah, Canis is 16 CU RDNA5 and 15 watts. Series S is 20 CU RDNA2 at 80-100 watts.

RDNA5 is 6 times more efficient in performance per watt. And a RDNA5 CU is much more powerful than RDNA2. The PS6 handheld should perform better than a Series S, as it only has to cater to a 1080/60 or 1080/120 screen. Plus it has all the upscaling tech.

Yes, it will be additional work for devs, but it's not impossible work. They can handle up to two SKUs. There's no extra charges.
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Why the fuck are u comparing Series S and PS6HH? Is MS porting Series S games to PS6HH?!?

You should compare the gap between PS6 and PS6HH:

- 54 RDNA 5 CUs @ 2.5 GHz+ <vs> 16 RDNA 5 CUs @ 1.2~1.6 GHz.
- 8X 4GHz+ Zen 6c <vs> 4X ~3GHz+ Zen 6c.
- 30~40 GB GDDR 7 <vs> 18~24GB LPDDR5X

YIKES. Yaaaaa~Ikes!!

You thought Series X to S gap was bad, this gap is gargantuan.
 
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Shogmaster said:
Why the fuck are u comparing Series S and PS6HH? Is MS porting Series S games to PS6HH?!?

You should compare the gap between PS6 and PS6HH:

- 54 RDNA 5 CUs @ 2.5 GHz+ <vs> 16 RDNA 5 CUs @ 1.2~1.6 GHz.
- 8X 4GHz+ Zen 6c <vs> 4X ~3GHz+ Zen 6c.
- 30~40 GB GDDR 7 <vs> 18~24GB LPDDR5X

YIKES. Yaaaaa~Ikes!!

You thought Series X to S gap was bad, this gap is gargantuan.
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Both Series S and X are played on 4K TVs which is an issue given the difference in GPU power and lack of good upscaler. PS6P will probably have a 1080p display and access to FSR5/PSSR3, the difference in graphics quality will not be as noticeable.

Also RAM difference won't be an issue.
 
KeplerL2 said:
Both Series S and X are played on 4K TVs which is an issue given the difference in GPU power and lack of good upscaler. PS6P will probably have a 1080p display and access to FSR5/PSSR3, the difference in graphics quality will not be as noticeable.

Also RAM difference won't be an issue.
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I think the situation gets more tricky IF like MLID alluded to, Sony does a PSTV style device with Canis internals as their entry point console $350-$399 range. But even then, the better upscaling would handle things fine I guess. Even Series S does traditional upscaling to 4k output.
 
It looks very much like the 4chan thing is fake but, it sounds and perfectly describes a formula that currently occurs on XSeries when you switch to DevMode where you can load and run emulators and other Windows applications.
 
Darsxx82 said:
It looks very much like the 4chan thing is fake but, it sounds and perfectly describes a formula that currently occurs on XSeries when you switch to DevMode where you can load and run emulators and other Windows applications.
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Yea, even though it's fake, much of it will likely come true as they're good guesses.

But it will probably be Windows 12 Gaming edition or Windows 12 Xbox edition licensed out to OEMs to use on Magnus based hardware. And if they do that, that device would get the Xbox branding and have BC. The FC would be universal across all windows devices.
 
KeplerL2 said:
Both Series S and X are played on 4K TVs which is an issue given the difference in GPU power and lack of good upscaler. PS6P will probably have a 1080p display and access to FSR5/PSSR3, the difference in graphics quality will not be as noticeable.

Also RAM difference won't be an issue.
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Am I nuts or wasn't XSX meant for 4K and XSS for 1080p? Did I dream that?

Let me know if that was from my past life or a better timeline or some shit ..
 
adamsapple said:
Not fast enough to some, I guess, cause he was saying the same thing a few days later.

A change in direction in this regard would basically cut off billions of dollars of revenue that are set to come in from the other platforms, cost billions to both spin-up more production lines on the current Series machines and redesign the direction of the next machine, which they aren't doing at all,

Matt Leblanc Whatever GIF
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With regard to the bolded quote from sneakers, I believe you've interpreted it incorrectly. A change of direction, like pulling back from multi platform, would mean spinning up series x console production and changing direction with the next Xbox, meaning it's not a hybrid any longer and instead it's a true successor to the series X. "Which they aren't doing at all" means they are sticking with the plan, not changing it. Punctuation in the original quote is there for a reason.
 
KeplerL2 said:
Pretty much no one owns 1080p TVs anymore, specially in the US (majority Xbox market).
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Yes yes great. But Series S was meant to be a 1080p console, just like PS6HH is going to be a 1080p console. That didn't help Series S at all, even with much lower settings than Series X titles, and it won't help PS6HH to run run PS6 software without doing some major surgery to the code.

Seriously, Series S actually ran same CPU as X. You won't even have that with PS6HH. Resolution downscaling is one thing, but CPU downscaling? If any PS6 title utilizes say 6 cores or more, good fucking luck. Even if you go 60 vs 30 fps, that might not be enough compensation.
 
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Fess said:
I don't get this. Why does it matter if it's a console or not???
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Because console gamers want a console and PC gamers want a PC. It's just that simple. My point was that it doesn't matter what Microsoft says it is. We have to wait and see what it really is.

Fess said:
Just seems like such a strange thing to be hung up about. Being a PC means that it'll come with a ton of bonuses, like people aren't ready for the doors that will be opened.
And I know some of those keeping that topic going are actual PC gamers. It's like hearing a Linux fan say "It's just Linux" in a weird attempt to downplay Steam Machine. 🤷‍♂️
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Think you are mistaking what I am saying consumers will be hung up about with what I am hung up about. It doesn't matter to me either way. I game on both PC and console.
 
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Shogmaster said:
Yes yes great. But Series S was meant to be a 1080p console, just like PS6HH is going to be a 1080p console. That didn't help Series S at all, even with much lower settings than Series X titles, and it won't help PS6HH to run run PS6 software without doing some major surgery to the code.
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Do you not understand the difference of someone playing on a Series S in a 50" 4K TV and PS6P with an 8-inch 1080p screen?
Shogmaster said:
Seriously, Series S actually ran same CPU as X. You won't even have that with PS6HH. Resolution downscaling is one thing, but CPU downscaling? If any PS6 title utilizes say 6 cores or more, good fucking luck. Even if you go 60 vs 30 fps, that might not be enough compensation.
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Most of the time going to 30 FPS from 60 should be enough, and if not devs can tweak things like physics/NPC tick rate, NPC count, active entity range, etc.
 
Tobimacoss said:
I think the situation gets more tricky IF like MLID alluded to, Sony does a PSTV style device with Canis internals as their entry point console $350-$399 range. But even then, the better upscaling would handle things fine I guess. Even Series S does traditional upscaling to 4k output.
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They won't
 
If it can play my Steam games... Why would I bother buying Xbox games which is usually more expensive? Also, are there two internal parts of this system? One for PC games, and another for Xbox emulation for Xbox games? Can someone please explain?
 
Topher said:
Because console gamers want a console and PC gamers want a PC. It's just that simple.
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Okay but I would say that it's an old way of thinking now. If we use a docked Steam Deck as an example, it's soooo close to how it is to have a console, it's 99.9% like a console, but still a PC, or PC handheld in that case.

The noticeable differences is pretty much just having extra settings for graphics and stuff like that. You boot into a console UI, you change system settings in the same UI, install games, you use a controller, no desktop seen.

You CAN go out to Linux desktop, but you don't have to unless you want to fiddle with mods or add games from other launchers.

For Xbox proof is still in the pudding regarding the UI but at this point I just can't see how the "PC" definition can be a problem even if you come from the console side.
 
Fess said:
Okay but I would say that it's an old way of thinking now. If we use a docked Steam Deck as an example, it's soooo close to how it is to have a console, it's 99.9% like a console, but still a PC, or PC handheld in that case.
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That is the old way of thinking for us enthusiasts that spend time following this stuff closely. Anecdotal, I do not know a console only gamer that cares about the PC side of things. Maybe the Jez's of the world will reach them before the Helix comes out but I think we are still a generation away before console gamers start coming around. If they do.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
Some early pics from GDC floating around and just thought this one was interesting

"Connect to any Platform" so much for "hear you" on exclusives :)

l2xoYNW4GVMZp9iH.jpg
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Hardware exclusivity is done for. Content remains exclusive to Subscription/Streaming Service primarily.

Ironically, it will be Valve providing the exclusives like Deadlock, Half-life 3, or Early Access Hits.
 
reinking said:
That is the old way of thinking for us enthusiasts that spend time following this stuff closely. Anecdotal, I do not know a console only gamer that cares about the PC side of things. Maybe the Jez's of the world will reach them before the Helix comes out but I think we are still a generation away before console gamers start coming around. If they do.
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You would be very wrong, Play Anywhere is the most demanded feature for Xbox Community. Sure, most are not likely to have both gaming PCs in addition to consoles but they sure as hell have Gaming Laptops or simply Gaming Capable Laptops, and now with the handhelds, a unified ecosystem is must.
 
This thread totally off the rails forever ago. Can't wait to come back and glance through it a few years from now.

PS6 and XBH both gonna be obnoxiously expensive. Whatever Sony saves by not making their box play PC games they will find something stupid or "innovative" to charge more money for even if its just the logo on the machine.

I dont play PC games at all so I have zero interest in XBH being able to play PC games. Would prefer if it was a traditional console without the extra expense of being a hybrid machine.

Next gen is gonna be a financially bumpy ride regardless of where we play, buckle up I guess.
 
Three said:
You've completely misconstrued his point. He is saying if they wanted to do exclusives they would have to increase production on xbox Series and redesign Magnus hardware, which they're not doing.
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lol, come on man.

What does 'and redesign the the next machine, WHICH THEY AREN'T DOING AT ALL' mean?

Not to mention in the same paragraph, two lines down he mentions games releasing on PS5/6, Xbox Series and Steam, not Magnus or future HW. Next you're gonna say 'putting a pin in Xbox HW' had some deep meaning that I didn't understand either 🤭

At that point he'd convinced himself and some of you guys that there wasn't going to be a future Xbox HW.
 
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They implement Game Mode because of license issues: they could run old Xbox games in backwards compatibility mode on a standard Windows PC
 
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adamsapple said:
lol, come on man.

What does 'and redesign the the next machine, WHICH THEY AREN'T DOING AT ALL' mean?
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All of that was in the context of reconstructing Xbox to be built around exclusives. He said that twice.

"I don't think thats what The Verge is suggesting, that exclusives are back on the table. But just speaking from publicly available information, lets play out that scenario.

In order to put exclusives back on the table..."
 
MisterXDTV said:
This confirms it's a WIndows PC for good

When Windows mode is used, 8 GB of RAM is gone

Good luck getting people to pay for online MP in Game Mode
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Do you really think there would be a FAQ page aimed at the console owners, not developers, out this early before the device is even formally announced, not to mention it still that it keeps referring to the project name.

Did you even check the source of those pictures?

LOL.
 
adamsapple said:
Do you really think there would be a FAQ page aimed at the console owners, not developers, out this early before the device is even formally announced, not to mention it still that it keeps referring to the project name.

Did you even check the source of those pictures?

LOL.
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They are announcing this in 2 days anyway

So I don't see why it couldn't be true....
 
Topher said:
Exclusive means it isn't found anywhere else. So "everything" on Xbox "subscriptions/services" cannot be found on other "subscriptions/services"?
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Well, not everything yet, it's a bit complicated. MS isn't allowed to make ABK content exclusive for Cloud Gaming as Ubisoft holds the rights permanently to all ABK games until 2038. So Sony could add them to their streaming service if they buy the rights at fair market price from Ubisoft. But for Native, Bethesda and ABK have been allowed to lease content to others. Diablo on PS+, Indiana Jones and Fallout to Amazon Luna, Skyrim, Fallout and ESO on PS+. That's why they're run as independent subsidiary groups.

But you won't find Xbox Game Studios games on any other service catalog thus far, other than Gamepass. You will find them in the Buy and Stream catalog for Nvidia GFN, Boosteroid though.

Just like God of War, Last of Us, Spiderman games are exclusive on PS+ Premium, whenever Sony decides to expand.
 
Tobimacoss said:
Well, not everything yet, it's a bit complicated. MS isn't allowed to make ABK content exclusive for Cloud Gaming as Ubisoft holds the rights permanently to all ABK games until 2038. So Sony could add them to their streaming service if they buy the rights at fair market price from Ubisoft. But for Native, Bethesda and ABK have been allowed to lease content to others. Diablo on PS+, Indiana Jones and Fallout to Amazon Luna, Skyrim, Fallout and ESO on PS+. That's why they're run as independent subsidiary groups.

But you won't find Xbox Game Studios games on any other service catalog thus far, other than Gamepass. You will find them in the Buy and Stream catalog for Nvidia GFN, Boosteroid though.

Just like God of War, Last of Us, Spiderman games are exclusive on PS+ Premium, whenever Sony decides to expand.
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When you have to add that many caveats to "exclusivity" then you really shouldn't be using the word "exclusive" at all.
 
Topher said:
All of that was in the context of reconstructing Xbox to be built around exclusives. He said that twice.

"I don't think thats what The Verge is suggesting, that exclusives are back on the table. But just speaking from publicly available information, lets play out that scenario.

In order to put exclusives back on the table..."
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Eh.

In the same paragraph he's talking about the next Xbox machine in past tense, like what it was supposed to be. Not what it's going to be.

seeing as how that was basically a W11 machine powered by the FSE, and also get that machine to some sort of approachable price point, which is absolutely not what it was going to be.
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And then when Helix was formally announced, it shifted to 'oh of course it's going to be a PC with FSE' :rolleyes:

He might have gotten a few guesses right over the months but the complete existence of a new generation of hardware being pinned or not is a pretty big thing to get wrong.

The metaphorical well of trust, as they say, has been poisoned now.

200.gif
 
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adamsapple said:
He might have gotten a few guesses right over the months but the complete existence of a new generation of hardware being pinned or not is a pretty big thing to get wrong.
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Read his words as you want then, but dismissing his past posts as "guesses" is a bit absurd. Not much point discussing it further.
 
Kacho said:
Long wait until Wednesday.
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I don't think they're gonna do any kind of form factor or final spec reveal at this talk, at most they're gonna talk broadly about their aims and goals with what they want the next hardware to be, as in the whole hybrid situation. I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't much discussed either.


Topher said:
Read his words as you want then, but dismissing his past posts as "guesses" is a bit absurd. Not much point discussing it further.
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That's fine. Out of all the things pointed out that's the only one that caught your attention. I guess we're done about it for now. (y)
 
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