bet half the ram will be consumed by always on co-pilotWill probably translate to the Project Helix underperforming in real world scenarios given it's going to be running shitty bloated Windows 12
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[MLiD] Project Helix is 25 Percent Faster Than PS6
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Rumor Hardware
PeteBull
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Too much.
vodka-bull
Member
Can't wait for the first still images that'll show me slightly sharper leaves in a game like Spiderman when zoomed in 400%! PS6 doomed!!!
Bojji
Member
We would have to know APU cost.
But comparing PS5 to PS6 -> memory 80$ to 300$+
APU is also not gonna be any cheaper, TSMC did make everything more expensive and new nodes are also more expensive
Rest of the components are also more expensive (even for PS5, that's why it goes up in price)
And SSD cost - NAND is going up just like RAM
This looks really bad for 2026 prices and this RAM crisis might be with us for quite a while... If Sony wants to sell 700 or even 600$ console with 30GB of memory they will have to prepare for "not record profits" quarters in 2028. Personally I think they will launch it with price not that far from BoM - it might be expensive for 1 or 2 years.
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sncvsrtoip
Member
if this 160w tdp for ps6 is still legit difference will be bigger, more like xox vs ps4pro so noticable
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
A Helix sitting on the shelf at Gamestop is my backup plan if my current PC goes belly up.
I'm a bit disappointed in the specs of both these APU's to be honest.
At least they will have FSR upscalling. They are going to need it.
I'm a bit disappointed in the specs of both these APU's to be honest.
At least they will have FSR upscalling. They are going to need it.
Hohenheim
Member
So.. both are "peasant" machines compared to current high end spec PC's, and will be even further behind when the next gen gpu's arrive around the same time.
Yet both will have good specs (for consoles) , making them quite expensive, and hopefully pushing some new gaming tech forward into the mainstream.
So the "losers " here will be the people who don't care too much about fidelity and specs, and just want a reasonable priced machine to play their games?
Yet both will have good specs (for consoles) , making them quite expensive, and hopefully pushing some new gaming tech forward into the mainstream.
So the "losers " here will be the people who don't care too much about fidelity and specs, and just want a reasonable priced machine to play their games?
IllegalLemon
Member
At the beginning of this generation we went from "the 12 tflop, tower of power, monster that eats monsters for breakfast" to "minimum 40-50% on the gpu alone, in addition to better RT" to "The tools are not mature enough yet, that's why it's not consistently beating the competition", to finally, "it's doing worse because of muh parity clauses bruv". What's the excuse going to be come next gen I wonder. We went from 11, down to 10 and then filled the room with bs fucking excuses in a bid to cover up our asses, that's the general takeaway judging from how some of the more vocal minority of diehards like to put it.
This 25% delta is literally the same delta or gap that we had this gen, and that amounted to jack shit with a bunch of excuses folded into the rancid cookie dough to put it bluntly.
CPU will be even less significant considering the fact they'll be running modified Windows 11 on it with what I'd presume the same copilot and recall bloat found on the desktop os they've caused more harm than good on. What's left, larger faster vram, we'll need it if we're going to be running WinSlop11 on it considering all the memory it'll consume to run all the AI features they'll attempt to shovel down our throats.
More VRAM bandwidth? That barely made a difference in comparisons back then and with all the ML compression future gpu's will have, it'll be even less significant come next gen. They'll need way more than hybrid designs and pc storefront support to convince people that what sounds like a north of 1 grand console (price based on leaks of course) is worth it over what the competition will offer.
This 25% delta is literally the same delta or gap that we had this gen, and that amounted to jack shit with a bunch of excuses folded into the rancid cookie dough to put it bluntly.
CPU will be even less significant considering the fact they'll be running modified Windows 11 on it with what I'd presume the same copilot and recall bloat found on the desktop os they've caused more harm than good on. What's left, larger faster vram, we'll need it if we're going to be running WinSlop11 on it considering all the memory it'll consume to run all the AI features they'll attempt to shovel down our throats.
More VRAM bandwidth? That barely made a difference in comparisons back then and with all the ML compression future gpu's will have, it'll be even less significant come next gen. They'll need way more than hybrid designs and pc storefront support to convince people that what sounds like a north of 1 grand console (price based on leaks of course) is worth it over what the competition will offer.
loktaiextatus
Member
Its going to come down to the obvious things.... Real world use and the IMAGE the console has - even its shape matters initially.- DO the games look good WHEN people see them running on it? Will the PS6 really lean on the mobility features if that is truly going to be a thing and do a better job with it? Will they fumble it like Kinect 2.0?
What games will be available and when and how they are perceived- who the advertising partners are and there attention is drawn.
Will people BITE - get excited about what they see coming...
Will the XBOX end up being a machine thats over (Possibly far over ) 1000 bucks and seen as "brodude" and the playstation ending up running most games
identically and the PS6 around the cost of a PS5 PRO - and everyone just grabbing them up from the local walmart with almost no competition with
Switch 2 easily dominating the more casual market and both the bigger consoles being what little timmys BIG BROTHER has and he may only get as a hand me down?
And we know ultimately the price and installed base. That is what keeps making a big difference over time too
Looking at the world, the price of living and what people have to spend - at least in my own bubble... this does NOT feel like a generation
where youre going to have a whole ton of people who arent die hard psychos who own "all 3" plus a PC.
What games will be available and when and how they are perceived- who the advertising partners are and there attention is drawn.
Will people BITE - get excited about what they see coming...
Will the XBOX end up being a machine thats over (Possibly far over ) 1000 bucks and seen as "brodude" and the playstation ending up running most games
identically and the PS6 around the cost of a PS5 PRO - and everyone just grabbing them up from the local walmart with almost no competition with
Switch 2 easily dominating the more casual market and both the bigger consoles being what little timmys BIG BROTHER has and he may only get as a hand me down?
And we know ultimately the price and installed base. That is what keeps making a big difference over time too
Looking at the world, the price of living and what people have to spend - at least in my own bubble... this does NOT feel like a generation
where youre going to have a whole ton of people who arent die hard psychos who own "all 3" plus a PC.
Horseganador
Member
25% is a ridiculous difference, nobody is going to notice a game running at 1440p on PS6 and 1620p on Helix upscaled to 4K by AI and the price difference will be quite large between the two.
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viveks86
Member
Noticed how he glosses over that line in his spec slide? I think that bit is outdated and just AMD's original proposed target. I just don't see Sony throttling the hardware down to an arbitrary power envelope that is lower than their existing console. Mayyyy be the PS6 will also have a low power mode for the
MisterXDTV
Member
The most amazing thing is that after 2 gens of lies after lies after lies and like 4 failed consoles....
There are some people that still want to give MS their money....
It's like "cheating mentally incapacitated" at this point
Unreal
There are some people that still want to give MS their money....
It's like "cheating mentally incapacitated" at this point
Unreal
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dispensergoinup
Member
I am no expert but how does this stack up vs:
Blast Processing™
Coding To The Metal™
OT: It's still going to come down to games and price, power be damned.
Blast Processing™
Coding To The Metal™
OT: It's still going to come down to games and price, power be damned.
Tqaulity
Member
In general terms, 25% more processing hardware is meaningless without the context of the software it's running, the OS that manages it etc. Since we know Helix will be using Windows (in some form), it almost certainly will be less efficient than the dedicated custom OS that the PS6 is likely to use. There is your 25% right there.
For 3rd party games, I wouldn't expect much meaningful differences at all. Maybe a smoother variable frame rate here and there but for all intent and purposes, expect games on both to have feature parity and similar performance targets (i.e. 4K/120).
IF Helix actually had true exclusive built for it, there is where you might see some levels that push beyond a PS6. But we know from the last decade+ that Helix will share every game with at least the PC.
For 3rd party games, I wouldn't expect much meaningful differences at all. Maybe a smoother variable frame rate here and there but for all intent and purposes, expect games on both to have feature parity and similar performance targets (i.e. 4K/120).
IF Helix actually had true exclusive built for it, there is where you might see some levels that push beyond a PS6. But we know from the last decade+ that Helix will share every game with at least the PC.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
difference between 1800p and 1440p is 51%.
J Required
Banned
Forget about PS6 for a moment. Please enlighten us with your brilliant insight on Helix's performance. It's only about 3× the raster performance of XSX at best , so I assume Microsoft's engineers should probably start drafting their resignation letters too, right?
And while we're at it, when Nvidia releases a new GPU with a mere 0.25× raster improvement over the 5090, should their engineers also step down in shame?
Honestly, some of the takes here are so spectacularly bad that they're almost impressive — equal parts hilarious and painfully embarrassing.
Ghostwire: Tokyo
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
I think the losers are going to be any PC gamer who doesn't have enough raytracing oomp to compete with these consoles.
If developers make games with these console specs. "Hey look at all this Raytracing power, we can just use only this."
Millions of PC gamers are going to be left playing old titles.
Hyper_hyper
Member
Power percentage difference overall similar as 5 years ago. Go back to remind yourself.
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Bojji
Member
Forever cross gen with PS5... most games won't require RT (at least for first 2-3 years).
GPU power - yes. This time it will also have stronger CPU (CPUs were virtually identical for PS5 and XSX), more memory and faster memory.
If you don't believe me, look at specs.
160TDP vs. 250-350
13 cores (including 3 full Z6 cores and 8 Z6 C cores) vs. 8 Z6 C cores + 2 LP cores
192 bit memory bus with 48GB of memory vs. 160 bit bus with 30GB of memory
bigger GPU...
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Bitstream
Member
This portion of the leak never made any sense to me. In a world where AI data centers are due to decimate what is left of the electricity grid and water reserves, why would any company care so much to gimp their $700 flagship product so it doesn't use more than $2 a month in electricity. Nobody cares.
Radical_3d
Member
Forgot to add: once SteamOS is running on this thing it's going to wipe the floor with the PS6 but at the same time. What is to wipe the floor in a generation where ML upscales all to more or less the same IQ?
Hyper_hyper
Member
You forgot the major hurdle for Xbox - Windows.
Hyper_hyper
Member
You've asked for it, you got the answer, so, cut the crap
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Bojji
Member
You still need more base power to run super heavy stuff like Path Tracing. I won't pretend that there is not a difference between my GPU and 4090, when both have ML super resolution and frame generation - end results are not the same.
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
Well that's kind of the deal now anyway. Hardware is so good already that's it's not that big of deal anymore who has the most power.
Hyper_hyper
Member
RE4 Remake performs better on PS5 with RT - so, that is a 2 GAMES, right? Anyway, you made bunch of Digital Foundry threads from what i saw, so, you should know which ones performes better on PS5, but you literally believed ( and still believe) that there isn't any.
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Stuart360
Member
Oh jesus we hear this at the start of every gen. My 4070ti will probably do better RT than these AMD consoles
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Radical_3d
Member
I don't think we're talking about a 3.500€ class GPU so we're fine. It's just 25%.
Bojji
Member
4090 was 1600 at launch but anyway...
My point was that even with SR and FG you can tottally see that difference in power. And bigger and better CPU will also keep framerates higher in CPU limited scenarios.
I think this console will crash and burn (sorry, MS) but tech in it is very interesting.
My eldest cousin once said. "It's better to have a smaller dick that's been in so many wet places, than a big one, that's been left dry in pants most of his life.
BarryH1985
Neo Member
25 percent faster, with 75 percent less exclusives. Not interested.
bender
What time is it?
This should be Xbox's new slogan. The brand was already dead when they had a competitive price point. There is no coming back.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I mean they are going with mostly AMD design box that is really like 90% PC and has Xbox BC mode. It's also not going to get sold at a loss.
Dev kits can just be a PC equivalent. Like if they manage it right it would be more similar to a Surface hardware release vs a console from expense perspective.
Now, it's probably going to sell like Surface hardware as well, but if it's profitable that might be enough.
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ReasonBeing
Member
I can't imagine any performance delta is going to matter much when one is being sold as a high end open gaming platform, and one as a traditional console. There is some overlap, but in large part will be different markets. For the Helix, the performance and feature set compared to its own cost will be largest determining factor in attraction. Of course, the more open nature of it will be a differentiator as well. Let me play my GOG, Epic, Steam, and VR games on this thing, and I will be day one customer.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes, so I can tell you that there's no RT difference, the SX looks cleaner with PS5 showing reconstruction artifacts.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
Not bad. I expected a bigger than 25% difference given the (rumored) much higher price tag for the device. Maybe the thing won't cost that much more than a PS6?
If history is anything to go by, the 25% difference will, more than likely, mean nothing in reality. Developers have -- understandably -- significantly less incentive to prioritize the least selling version of their game. If Helix the Cat can't sell >10M in its first year, developers just won't invest their resources into tapping into the extra 25%.
If history is anything to go by, the 25% difference will, more than likely, mean nothing in reality. Developers have -- understandably -- significantly less incentive to prioritize the least selling version of their game. If Helix the Cat can't sell >10M in its first year, developers just won't invest their resources into tapping into the extra 25%.