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[MLiD] Project Helix is 25 Percent Faster Than PS6
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Rumor Hardware
lughnasadh123
Member
The only one that'll appeal to more are the ones already getting beefier PCs.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I now like this guy because his rumors aligned with my favorite things screw him when he's wrong or it doesn't
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Basically an unnoticeable difference to the normies other than price.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's close to delta between GPUs that are closest to both consoles according to Kepler:
Well DANG! You right lol. So freaking MLiD was right all along.
K KeplerL2 also said (and if I'm wrong, please correct me if anything has changed in this time) that the difference will be closer to that between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X (than XSXvsPS5) because this time the Helix was better in every important area: CPU, GPU, VRAM, CUs, clock speed, etc.That's close to delta between GPUs that are closest to both consoles according to Kepler:
As always, the games will eventually reveal the true extent of the performance differences and of course Will depend in games to games, but that doesn't change the fact that MLD's article is nonsensical and full of contradictions.
"25%" when it's previously described:
1- That this ~25% is in rasterization power.
2- That the CPU is ~20% better.
3- He claims the PS6 is 12x better at ray tracing than the PS5, and previously stated that the Helix is 20x better than the Xbox Series X at ray tracing.
4- He claims not to know the amount of VRAM in the Helix, which is up to 48GB GDDR7 vs. the PS6's 30GB... The Helix is also faster...
In short, MLD doing what MLD usually does. 10%-25%-35%-40% ... Whatever the difference... but MLD in that respect (speculating on theoretical performance) is the worst possible source and his article es and example.
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coffinbirth
Member
25% more power with 3,000% more games...
100% more expensive
I can honestly see quite a few people grabbing Helix over buying a prebuilt pc or building out a new rig if they can manage to keep the price somewhat reasonable, as pc parts prices are anything but reasonable these days.
100% more expensive
I can honestly see quite a few people grabbing Helix over buying a prebuilt pc or building out a new rig if they can manage to keep the price somewhat reasonable, as pc parts prices are anything but reasonable these days.
PeteBull
Gold Member
25% faster doesnt seem like crazy much, but if actual games show that performance delta, it would mean at same resolution and other settings magnus version keeps stable 60 no matter what while ps6 version has dips to 48fps.
Ofc its nothing dynamic res scaling or simply ai upscaling from lower internal resolution cant fix, still its always better to have that 25% raw power advantage than disadvantage.
Ofc its nothing dynamic res scaling or simply ai upscaling from lower internal resolution cant fix, still its always better to have that 25% raw power advantage than disadvantage.
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Bojji
Member
You have full Zen 6 cores vs. Zen 6 C on PS6, more memory BW, more memory in general, bigger GPU. Tell me how this is "nothing" and similar to PS5/XSX situation?
PS5 had higher clock that boosted some aspects of the GPU. CPU power ended up pretty much the same.
midnightAI
Member
completely meaningless if the next XBox is 150-200% the price of the PS6
Radical_3d
Member
Omg, I need to know the price of this thing now!
And you think that these will not be trading blows given the state some games release on PC?
Mr Moose
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The launch state of software and MLiD speculating on hardware specs are different topics, no?
Bojji
Member
Omg, I need to know the price of this thing now!
And you think that these will not be trading blows given the state some games release on PC?
You are assuming that Helix will run the same builds as normal PCs etc.
Even with current PC games we sometimes have steam builds (PC) and gamepass builds that are the same on Xbox on PC - this was the case with Still Wakes The Deep missing options (present on Steam build) on GP release on PC.
Stuart360
Member
Slightly off topic but i remember the amount of laughing smilies i got a couple of years ago when i said the next gen Xbox and Playstation will be less powerful than a 4090.That's close to delta between GPUs that are closest to both consoles according to Kepler:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
5 to 1?!
It's be at least 10 to 1 minimum just on reputation alone. Then when you include the price difference......
I can't believe the Switch 2 will actually be 2 gens behind the PS6. That's crazy when you think about it.
Bojji
Member
Even I was arguing in some thread in ~2024 that based on previous consoles 2027 PS6 should be more powerful than 2022 GPU. Looks like I was wrong, hahaha.
J Required
Banned
What about that PC windows overhead? Will wait and see. Im sure it will be mirror image to this gen or at least smaller than differences between PS4 and Xbox one
roosnam1980
Gold Member
rat isnt green?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
K KeplerL2 also said (and if I'm wrong, please correct me if anything has changed in this time) that the difference will be closer to that between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X (than XSXvsPS5) because this time the Helix was better in every important area: CPU, GPU, VRAM, CUs, clock speed, etc.
As always, the games will eventually reveal the true extent of the performance differences and of course Will depend in games to games, but that doesn't change the fact that MLD's article is nonsensical and full of contradictions.
"25%" when it's previously described:
1- That this ~25% is in rasterization power.
2- That the CPU is ~20% better.
3- He claims the PS6 is 12x better at ray tracing than the PS5, and previously stated that the Helix is 20x better than the Xbox Series X at ray tracing.
4- He claims not to know the amount of VRAM in the Helix, which is up to 48GB GDDR7 vs. the PS6's 30GB... The Helix is also faster...
In short, MLD doing what MLD usually does. 10%-25%-35%-40% ... Whatever the difference... but MLD in that respect (speculating on theoretical performance) is the worst possible source and his article es and example.
At least MLiD is given us more information than we currently had. He's one of the few HW leakers that we all should pay attention to.
But what if the price of the console is.....
PS6: $600
Xbox Helix: $1,200
Bojji
Member
You are forgetting that current Xbox (and maybe X1 as well?) is running custom Windows and there is no sign of overhead, API is very low level etc.
Based on memory prices, 600$ for PS6 looks like science fiction.
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Radical_3d
Member
My brother from the other side of the continent was answering to the "the power difference isn't going to sell systems". He thinks it does and that Series fell short but the OS situation may be yet another handicap. Anyways I think that power doesn't sell systems. PS5 traded blows but Series X was clearly superior overall across all the gen.
If you give the companies the option to skip one version and be in your device just with the PC version it's hard to imagine them doing any effort. That they don't bother to update the Windows Store version vs the Steam version is actually pretty telling. Didn't knew that.
bender
What time is it?
tusharngf
Member
may be ps6 is overclocked 9070XT
Bojji
Member
Lifetime sales?
Yeah... I doubt it, hahaha.
In some calculations it totally is.
Bojji
Member
I mean, it's happening currently with some games. Xbox app version is usually different than Steam version and gets updates later.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
So we've learned nothing from the start of this gen. Cerny architecture aside, Windows/mostly generic PC optimization/DirectX abstractions will easily eat away this so called 25% and in most cases both boxes will be equal.
But not in price, of course. And I'm sure that Sony will once again deliver on controller, sound and many other really vital features that can't be measured in numbers but translate directly to gaming experience.
But not in price, of course. And I'm sure that Sony will once again deliver on controller, sound and many other really vital features that can't be measured in numbers but translate directly to gaming experience.
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FalconPunch
Member
In the age of AI based upscaling, this really is as irrelevant as irrelevant can be. As long as your GPU is able to path trace and ray trace at over 60fps at 1080p, you're pretty much fine.
You can use DLSS performance and frame gen at 4k to get an upscaled 4k120fps.
You can use DLSS performance and frame gen at 4k to get an upscaled 4k120fps.
FalconPunch
Member
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Loxus
Member
Work out the PS6 BOM so it wouldn't be science fiction.
There's enough information on the internet such as RAM, NAND and Wafer cost, bulk discounts on components and Sony's markup.
StoopKidz
Member
That's close to delta between GPUs that are closest to both consoles according to Kepler:
Bojji
Member
Yeah, that is more realistic (but Sony still have to sell at loss).
You know more than credible leakers?
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So? At what point does one thing contradict the other?
No one disputes MLiD's access to real and genuine AMD documents; the issue is their interpretation of those documents and how they speculate about how that data translates into actual hardware performance.
I recall that MLiD initially argued that Magnus was PS6 because it "exuded M. Cerny's ingenuity from every pore," and it was thanks to Kepler and others whose information MLD himself has used to refine his previous interpretation.
This ~25% difference is equally contradictory with the same article, and again, a reason to take their claims with a grain of salt.
Bojji
Member
RAM alone is 300+ dollars.
Physiognomonics
Member
Sure in raster, cache frequency etc. but compute / bandwidth should matter a lot. And those matter in many of UE5 software RT games where XSX has the edge.
Why would 10% CPU edge ended up been the same? That's not how PC world work, at all.
What will really make a difference is the amount of GPU L2 cache, 24MB vs 10MB and probably the CPU (in games CPU limited).
But the problem with MS is their tools / API that are often less efficient than Sony lean APIs. Why are CPU limited games still performing better on PS5 (when the 'experts' predicted those games would run better on XSX)? Why are games with hardware RT running sometimes 20% better on PS5?
J Required
Banned
$600 PS6 with close performance to $1200 Helix will be the deal of the century.
Bojji
Member
Some games are running better on PS5 with RT. Other games are running better on XSX. Same situation as with non RT games.
It would be but I doubt it will happen. Unless Sony wants to lose billions like with PS3 launch.
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Haint
Member
LOL @ 3x raster performance with 50% more CUs and 30% clock boost. I mean I know comical exaggerations about "AMD's next GPU architecture is going to bankrupt Nvidia" is a meme, but this is some mass relay level Scifi wishcasting of frankly criminal proportions. This device is in practical terms a PS5 Pro with a little more memory and better AI/RT hardware.
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