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[StealthGoblin]

It's more and more my opinion that the hardware division needs to go and Microsoft should focus on what they do well - services.

Get gamepass on everything possible and publish on playstation and Nintendo. Their software and subs are clearly doing good numbers and it is insane that they are skipping the two largest console platforms.

Offer a bespoke version of gamepass on PlayStation that only contains the missing exclusives and then get around to getting all games ported over. Same with Nintendo Switch 2.

They now own three publishers and have a lot of studios and IP. Putting effort into an increasingly irrelevant hardware platform doesn't make sense any more.

They've got a great shot at doing well on Mobile now as well.

 

[Darsxx82]

No, it just means that as long as Sony and Nintendo continue to have exclusive games, Microsoft won't become a third party. And considering that neither want to stop exclusivity practices....Xbox is here to stay and acquire more.

The funny thing is that when he made those statements they called him a liar and dishonest and that he tried to excuse himself before the judge for making Xbox exclusive the games that were previously multiplatform.

They said that a 2T billion company can afford to lose money to gain market share...... It turns out that now the narrative has simply changed to fit the new format of "MS will stop making consoles to be a full 3rd party and release their games on PlayStation"

 

[John Wick]

Yeah and Apple should stop selling phones because they get outsold by Android hardware /S

So which Android phone sells more than I phones?

 

[Darsxx82]

It's more and more my opinion that the hardware division needs to go and Microsoft should focus on what they do well - services.

Xbox console remains by far the largest source of revenue for the gaming division. The main source of Gamepass subscriptions. And the main source of channeling and adoption of new users.

Xbox console has a loyal user base of 40-50+ million users of which more than 20 million are regular Gamepass users.

MS charges 30% of every game and 3rd party downloadable content sold on its Xbox console. In fact, the majority of income from the software and content section comes from there.


Now tell me what makes sense to do without a business that, at the moment, with the number of Studios accumulated, you have an easier time providing support because you have less dependence on the 3rd party than ever before in history...

Get gamepass on everything possible and publish on playstation and Nintendo. Their software and subs are clearly doing good numbers and it is insane that they are skipping the two largest console platforms.

First it would have to have the acceptance of Sony, which has its own subscription service and future cloud game. Nintendo would clearly say NO.
Then it remains to be seen if Gamepass would be profitable on PS where there were only MS games as if that were going to generate regular subscriptions to compensate for the 20+ million it generates on Xbox console and the income from 3rd party and downloadable content....

Then, the platform with the largest user base is PC and games come out day one on it. Switch 2 can be a future benefit as well and the most famous franchises that generate the most income (COD, Minecraft, etc.) will continue to come out on PS.
That is, it has more user base to amortize its software than Sony itself, which focuses only on the PS console user base.

Offer a bespoke version of gamepass on PlayStation that only contains the missing exclusives and then get around to getting all games ported over. Same with Nintendo Switch 2.

They now own three publishers and have a lot of studios and IP. Putting effort into an increasingly irrelevant hardware platform doesn't make sense any more.

A platform with 50+ million user base that is its main source of income, main source of income for the division and gamepass subscriptions and 3rd party income.....is irrelevant

Imagine doing without that source of income when you have it easier than ever in your history to maintain support for your own platform while expanding your software in other ways.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense no matter how hard you try. Certainly not in the medium term where cloud gaming is far from being a reality.

They've got a great shot at doing well on Mobile now as well.

In fact, that was the main reason for wanting to acquire ABK. However, until a few days ago it was to end PlayStation and get a monopoly on consoles..... Now they say that the objective of buying ABK was to become a full 3rd party and abandon Xbox consoles...

 

[yazenov]

Yeah and Apple should stop selling phones because they get outsold by Android hardware /S

How is this even a comparison? Apple sells a shit ton of hardware.

A better comparison would be Sega. You know, Dreamcast and Xbox.

 

[jm89]

Xbox console has a loyal user base of 40-50+ million users of which more than 20 million are regular Gamepass users.

MS charges 30% of every game and 3rd party downloadable content sold on its Xbox console. In fact, the majority of income from the software and content section comes from there.


Now tell me what makes sense to do without a business that, at the moment, with the number of Studios accumulated, you have an easier time providing support because you have less dependence on the 3rd party than ever before in history...

We don't know if the 40-50+ million userbase is true anymore. More then 20 million gamepass users isn't something anyone wants to here for years on end, it needs bigger growth. The fact that MS still haven't disclosed any numbers for a while tells me it isn't that great.

Xbox one got alot of sales based on goodwill from 360, probably lost alot of people to playstation as the gen went on.

It will makes sense if console sales remain slow and it becomes more easier to run the business by moving away from consoles and focusing maximizing profit from being a third publisher. After all MS is a software service buisness, so would go inline with the parent company.

 

[FireFly]

We don't know if the 40-50+ million userbase is true anymore. More then 20 million gamepass users isn't something anyone wants to here for years on end, it needs bigger growth. The fact that MS still haven't disclosed any numbers for a while tells me it isn't that great.

Xbox one got alot of sales based on goodwill from 360, probably lost alot of people to playstation as the gen went on.

It will makes sense if console sales remain slow and it becomes more easier to run the business by moving away from consoles and focusing maximizing profit from being a third publisher. After all MS is a software service buisness, so would go inline with the parent company.

I think the point is that the extra sales gained on other consoles may not offset the loss in revenue from not receiving the Xbox store cut.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

So which Android phone sells more than I phones?

Samsung alone, let alone all the other Android based handsets, same occurred in 2021 as well.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

How is this even a comparison? Apple sells a shit ton of hardware.

A better comparison would be Sega. You know, Dreamcast and Xbox.

I was being facetious, hence the /S (end sarcasm)

 

[Hugare]

Revenue figures are meaningless without some idea of the profit/loss margins based on current and ongoing expenditure.

"Best ever" shouldn't be surprising when the amount money spent purely on acquisitions over the past few years rivals their oppositions entire market caps! And of course, the acquisition cost is just the beginning of the spend, these new businesses need to fund themselves over the long term.

And let's be honest, for all that money spent so far there's been precious little new added to gaming as a whole. If only MS.Xbox was as good at *creating* brands as acquiring proven successes...

Hit the nail on the head. Came here to post this.

People discussing over revenue numbers without knowing about the profit/loss is ridiculous.

But it goes to show that Microsoft's tactic of showing meaningless metrics to fool people works

 

[StealthGoblin]

Xbox console remains by far the largest source of revenue for the gaming division. The main source of Gamepass subscriptions. And the main source of channeling and adoption of new users.

Xbox console has a loyal user base of 40-50+ million users of which more than 20 million are regular Gamepass users.

MS charges 30% of every game and 3rd party downloadable content sold on its Xbox console. In fact, the majority of income from the software and content section comes from there.


Now tell me what makes sense to do without a business that, at the moment, with the number of Studios accumulated, you have an easier time providing support because you have less dependence on the 3rd party than ever before in history...



First it would have to have the acceptance of Sony, which has its own subscription service and future cloud game. Nintendo would clearly say NO.
Then it remains to be seen if Gamepass would be profitable on PS where there were only MS games as if that were going to generate regular subscriptions to compensate for the 20+ million it generates on Xbox console and the income from 3rd party and downloadable content....

Then, the platform with the largest user base is PC and games come out day one on it. Switch 2 can be a future benefit as well and the most famous franchises that generate the most income (COD, Minecraft, etc.) will continue to come out on PS.
That is, it has more user base to amortize its software than Sony itself, which focuses only on the PS console user base.






A platform with 50+ million user base that is its main source of income, main source of income for the division and gamepass subscriptions and 3rd party income.....is irrelevant

Imagine doing without that source of income when you have it easier than ever in your history to maintain support for your own platform while expanding your software in other ways.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense no matter how hard you try. Certainly not in the medium term where cloud gaming is far from being a reality.

In fact, that was the main reason for wanting to acquire ABK. However, until a few days ago it was to end PlayStation and get a monopoly on consoles..... Now they say that the objective of buying ABK was to become a full 3rd party and abandon Xbox consoles...

Their growth has been in PC gamepass, not console. They've had to plump up console numbers by converting gold to core.

Sony would accept a curated PS platform specific gamepass and all games available on the store that they could get 30% from. It's free money for them. Doesn't harm their own games or sales of 3rd party games.

Xbox is trending downwards in console sales. It makes sense to prepare the life rafts. And most Xbox owners would own a PlayStation, a Switch or both. They'd still be able to reach those consumers. They are the third choice platform.

If I'm Xbox then I'm going cap in hand to Sony and Nintendo while also growing mobile, PC and cloud.

 

[Darsxx82]

We don't know if the 40-50+ million userbase is true anymore. More then 20 million gamepass users isn't something anyone wants to here for years on end, it needs bigger growth. The fact that MS still haven't disclosed any numbers for a while tells me it isn't that great.

XSeries has sold 24-25 million in 3 years and there are still 5 years left of generation..... VERY, VERY, VERY, bad should happen so that it doesn't manage to sell another 20 million in that time and more when it will be the time when the games of esops 50+ Studios that MS now has will be in a position to launch their current projects.

On Xbox, at current figures, you have 21 million regular Gamepass users, of which more than half are premiums. Not counting the revenue from XBOX gold, which now becomes Gamepass Core (i.e. 41 million Gamepass users). Imagine not improving those numbers at the same time that more Xbox consoles are being sold and at the same time that more first-party games from big studios are being released on a more regular basis... Or even more graphically, imagine dispensing with that income from Xbox console users (in addition to 30% 3rd party fee, downloadable content, DLC, microtransactions...)

Xbox one got alot of sales based on goodwill from 360, probably lost alot of people to playstation as the gen went on.

It's been 10 years since XBO was launched. The damage has already been done and the results were 50+ million consoles sold. That is, the loyal user base that the Xbox brand maintains. To believe that this loyal mass is going to turn its back significantly more when a situation now arises in terms of a massively better first-party catalog and exclusives is completely illogical. Repeat, 24-25 million XSEries sold in 3 years, it would be very, very, very unlikely that in 5 years XSeries won't be able to sell another 15-20 millones.

PS. Leaked MS documents say they predict between 55 million and 60 million by 2028

It will makes sense if console sales remain slow and it becomes more easier to run the business by moving away from consoles and focusing maximizing profit from being a third publisher. After all MS is a software service buisness, so would go inline with the parent company.

Dispensing with console revenue (the main and most solid source of revenue) is not maximizing returns. It's quite the opposite. There hasn't been a time in history where MS has had an easier time maintaining support for console hardware thanks to the sheer amount of Studios it now has. The dependency on 3rd parties is now less when it comes to keeping your user base loyal

So you have MS is already a great 3rd party publisher. . Its games are launched day one on the platform with the largest user base such as PC and it also launches its great franchises generating the highest revenue on PS and Switch (COD, Minecraft, ....).

In the situation of maximum need to amortize the cost of game developments, it would lead her to consider releasing certain games to PS and Switch....... but certainly not to end the Xbox console business and its revenue.

 

[Kiraly]

Notice how Sony and Nintendo actually share both revenue and profits, in details, but not Microsoft.

I wonder why.

So where can I find the profit figures for Azure and 365 Office? Care to share?

 

[Jemm]

Income statement as a graph:

 

[Darsxx82]

Their growth has been in PC gamepass, not console. They've had to plump up console numbers by converting gold to core.

The growth in PC in % is being higher, it does not mean that this is its main source of revenue and user base. The primary and most robust source is Xbox console. If you lose that base, you practically start from O. But it's not about Gamepass revenue, games and content revenue is 80% of the division's revenue and they come in a huge amount of 30% from every 3rd party game sold on consoles and, especially, from microtransactions, DLcs and XboxLive.

Imagine doing without the returns generated by Fornite, COD, and any great online game. Imagine doing without the amount of revenue that GTA VI is going to generate in sales on XSeries and online...... NO, it's not logical

Sony would accept a curated PS platform specific gamepass and all games available on the store that they could get 30% from. It's free money for them. Doesn't harm their own games or sales of 3rd party games.

It remains to be seen whether SONY will accept a competition within its ecosystem. Then it remains to be seen what specific Gamepass you propose that equals or amortizes the loss of revenue generated by Xbox console in all its extension..... It is NOT an option today. SONY would only be interested in MS releasing its games on Playstation like any other publisher and charging its 30% for each of them. And MS can do that without having to do without its console. In fact, it already does this with its great franchises (COD, Minecraft, etc...)

Xbox is trending downwards in console sales. It makes sense to prepare the life rafts.

XSeries is going to sell 45-55 millons in the worst-case scenario. I don't think people are aware of the revenue base that that amount of users generates to decide that it doesn't deserve to be supported. A support that has never been easier for a 2T company and console manufacturer with 50+ Studios under its control and potential to maintain or improve figures in the next generation...

If I'm Xbox then I'm going cap in hand to Sony and Nintendo while also growing mobile, PC and cloud.

MS is already going hand in hand with PS and Nintendo. Their big franchises are already launched in them and the catalog of first parties that will be launched (mainly online games) will surely expand. On PC, mobile and Cloud, it already has its own platform. In other words, and I come back to the same thing, there is no logic to dispensing with the console business. Much less in the short to medium term.

 

[zapper]

Income statement as a graph:

cost of revenue includes everything and not just the xbox division + windows, right?

 

[Jemm]

cost of revenue includes everything and not just the xbox division + windows, right?

Yes, the grey revenue bar has all the sources combined.

 

[StealthGoblin]

The growth in PC in % is being higher, it does not mean that this is its main source of revenue and user base. The primary and most robust source is Xbox console. If you lose that base, you practically start from O. But it's not about Gamepass revenue, games and content revenue is 80% of the division's revenue and they come in a huge amount of 30% from every 3rd party game sold on consoles and, especially, from microtransactions, DLcs and XboxLive.

Imagine doing without the returns generated by Fornite, COD, and any great online game. Imagine doing without the amount of revenue that GTA VI is going to generate in sales on XSeries and online...... NO, it's not logical


It remains to be seen whether SONY will accept a competition within its ecosystem. Then it remains to be seen what specific Gamepass you propose that equals or amortizes the loss of revenue generated by Xbox console in all its extension..... It is NOT an option today. SONY would only be interested in MS releasing its games on Playstation like any other publisher and charging its 30% for each of them. And MS can do that without having to do without its console. In fact, it already does this with its great franchises (COD, Minecraft, etc...)


XSeries is going to sell 45-55 millons in the worst-case scenario. I don't think people are aware of the revenue base that that amount of users generates to decide that it doesn't deserve to be supported. A support that has never been easier for a 2T company and console manufacturer with 50+ Studios under its control and potential to maintain or improve figures in the next generation...


MS is already going hand in hand with PS and Nintendo. Their big franchises are already launched in them and the catalog of first parties that will be launched (mainly online games) will surely expand. On PC, mobile and Cloud, it already has its own platform. In other words, and I come back to the same thing, there is no logic to dispensing with the console business. Much less in the short to medium term.

They've pulled everything bar COD from PlayStation. Not wise in my opinion.

I'd rather have 70% of 200m than 100% of 40m.

Sony and Nintendo's userbases are the stuff of dreams for Microsoft.

It's also worth remembering that Sony and Nintendo would have zero outlay for Gamepass. They aren't paying to put games into it and they won't lose development budget on it. It's free money.

Microsoft would hit their subscriber target very very easily.

 

[DragonNCM]

Starfield failed at being a system seller. How can your hardware decline when you launch your biggest game? Yikes!

MS should ditch the console Business and release their software everywhere.

LoL.....how many copies did it sell on PC + Xbox + gamepass upgrades so it can be played early ?
It is day one on PC & Xbox, combine that & you will get real numbers. Xbox hardware sales (what is not bad at all) are just deception so they can cry in court about how weak they are in console business.
Meanwhile no one see elephant in the room, except CMA.

 

[Riky]

"
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 was highlighted as a key first-party release for the next quarter, with regular reminders to investors that Activision games will now come under first-party revenue rather than third-party, which will impact expected figures for both in future results.

Microsoft also noted that the IP owned by Activision Blizzard means Xbox now has 13 billion dollar franchises, including Call of Duty, Candy Crush, Diablo and Warcraft."

The figures will go through the roof from here.

 

[Brucey]

It's been 10 years since XBO was launched. The damage has already been done and the results were 50+ million consoles sold. That is, the loyal user base that the Xbox brand maintains. To believe that this loyal mass is going to turn its back significantly more when a situation now arises in terms of a massively better first-party catalog and exclusives is completely illogical. Repeat, 24-25 million XSEries sold in 3 years, it would be very, very, very unlikely that in 5 years XSeries won't be able to sell another 15-20 millones.

PS. Leaked MS documents say they predict between 55 million and 60 million by 2028

I would argue that the loyal Xbox fanbase is around 25 million. That's the people that have already bought a series s or x.

Table from luminoths post:

Xbox One generation benefited from leftover Kinect hype/surge in the latter half of the 360 generation.

I don't think we will be seeing that for the XBS generation.

 

[Darsxx82]

They've pulled everything bar COD from PlayStation. Not wise in my opinion.

It makes sense when COD is annual and Activision's main source of revenue. The fact is not only does it keep releasing on PS, it now expands to Switch (most likely Switch2) while maintaining those on Xbox console (of which it now collects 100% and not 30%) and PC. I still want to read an argument where I am convinced that doing without revenue from Xbox consoles makes sense.

...... The rest of ABK's games?? King is for mobile and Blizzard is primarily PC, I don't know where the gain would be from dispensing with the business and revenue of XBOX consoles... Not to mention that other ABK franchises may be case by case depending on the type of game. For example, a Blizzard multiplayer, if released on console, could very well have a PS version.

I'd rather have 70% of 200m than 100% of 40m.

In that description you only take into account the revenue from games while forgetting the revenue you lose in subscriptions, 30% fee of all 3rd games that are released on Xbox console and mainly microtransactions, DLCs and advertising of those same...
Not to mention that franchises and some other MS games that are the big revenue generators are already coming to PS and Nintendo consoles. For the rest of the games ?? The largest user base is on PC and Xbox games come out on the same day one to compensate. It's certainly not that MS games are going to be wasted on the XSeries user base, which is how you present it.

Sony and Nintendo's userbases are the stuff of dreams for Microsoft.

The goal of MS is to capture that user base under their control and under their ecosystem. Don't depend on the guidelines and demands that Sony and Nintendo impose...

It's also worth remembering that Sony and Nintendo would have zero outlay for Gamepass. They aren't paying to put games into it and they won't lose development budget on it. It's free money.

You're describing a great deal for Sony and NIntendo, quite the opposite for MS.

Microsoft would hit their subscriber target very very easily.

It's not the subscribers that's important, it's the revenue from those subscribers and the strength of those subscriptions. It's useless for MS to have 30 million subscribers on PS that generate 100 if on Xbox it has 21 that generate 200.

 

[Darsxx82]

I would argue that the loyal Xbox fanbase is around 25 million. That's the people that have already bought a series s or x.

Table from luminoths post:

Xbox One generation benefited from leftover Kinect hype/surge in the latter half of the 360 generation.

I don't think we will be seeing that for the XBS generation.

Are you saying that XSEries isn't going to sell a single console anymore in the next 5 years?? The end-user base each generation is what expresses the strength of the brand and the extent of the business. XBO's momentum from the X360 generation came to an end within 2 years of its launch. The rest of the sales came under a dark layer of uncertainty and poor catalog. Uncertainty in that particular aspect does not exist today.

 

[Brucey]

Are you saying that XSEries isn't going to sell a single console anymore in the next 5 years?? The end-user base each generation is what expresses the strength of the brand and the extent of the business. XBO's momentum from the X360 generation came to an end within 2 years of its launch. The rest of the sales came under a dark layer of uncertainty and poor catalog. Uncertainty in that particular aspect does not exist today.

They will continue to sell until Microsoft stops supplying them or kicks off another hardware generation. But momentum/excitement appears to be slowing and it's only just coming up on three years in. A mid gen pro console like the Xbox one x could certainly boost things up.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Xbox Hardware Revenue declined by 7%, in the Starfield quarter and selling fewer consoles than in 2022, disaster.

We now know why ms is pushing for gamepass to have a launcher on Sony and Nintendo hardware. GP growing on pc might be what they are aiming for to save this mess.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I see a lot here are still playing console sales and ignoring all of the money these companies make off of software and services.

Sure, Microsoft could pivot to third party publisher, and their games would sell more. But then they lose licensing fees from third parties, 30% of all third party sales, whatever cut they make off of all DLC/MTX (I assume it’s the same 30% cut). Their own games will sell more but they lose 30% of each sale and 30% of all digital transactions.

Then you move to services. They lose the tens of millions of people who subscribe to play Xbox games online. Those people move to PS+ or Nintendo, where Xbox sees little to nothing from. And the people who do stay subscribed to a service like GamePass, assuming it even still exists anywhere, MS now makes way less money off of them because they have to pay Sony/Nintendo. And why would those companies even allow GamePass into their ecosystem? We saw it took Sony years to allow EA Access. They’d never allow GamePass without MS making major changes/concessions. Right off the bat they’d demand CoD not be in the service.

So Xbox makes way less revenue on everything but sells more software. The extra software sales don’t make up what they lose everywhere else. I mean, this is basic stuff we have seen for generations with Nintendo.

 

[Darsxx82]

They will continue to sell until Microsoft stops supplying them or kicks off another hardware generation. But momentum/excitement appears to be slowing and it's only just coming up on three years in. A mid gen pro console like the Xbox one x could certainly boost things up.

I repeat that I think that things must be very, very very bad so that Xseries does not exceed the barrier of 45 million consoles sold, which is a user and business base that it does not make sense to do without, and even more so when your bet is to diversify your software also with the PC user base. Because what we were discussing here is the possibility that MS will choose to end its console business in the short to medium term and I don't see such a possibility. I understand from your answer that you agree with me on that.

Then I don't know what the specific MS plans are with console hardware. I wouldn't rule out an Xbox Pro because MS times are different and XBO X was released a year after PS4 Pro. I also don't rule out that MS will go on to make intergenerational consoles and regular updates..... What is clear to me is that it is not going to end its console business in the current situation and that they are not going to miss the opportunity to present itself in 2028 with a console that will be presented at launch with TES VI, Halo NextGen, FH7, and any of the big franchises MS already own. Because as I said, more important than what it generates is the cost of its support and MS has never been in a better position to support its own console.

 

[adamsapple]

Thank you to the mods for the updated topic title.

Looks like it's on track with some differences, differences that can (and likely will) be overcome with CoD bundles and/or other assorted deals very easily.

Imagine a $199 CoD Series S bundle with 3/6 months of Game Pass. It's gonna sell like hotcakes.

 

[StealthGoblin]

It makes sense when COD is annual and Activision's main source of revenue. The fact is not only does it keep releasing on PS, it now expands to Switch (most likely Switch2) while maintaining those on Xbox console (of which it now collects 100% and not 30%) and PC. I still want to read an argument where I am convinced that doing without revenue from Xbox consoles makes sense.

...... The rest of ABK's games?? King is for mobile and Blizzard is primarily PC, I don't know where the gain would be from dispensing with the business and revenue of XBOX consoles... Not to mention that other ABK franchises may be case by case depending on the type of game. For example, a Blizzard multiplayer, if released on console, could very well have a PS version.

In that description you only take into account the revenue from games while forgetting the revenue you lose in subscriptions, 30% fee of all 3rd games that are released on Xbox console and mainly microtransactions, DLCs and advertising of those same...
Not to mention that franchises and some other MS games that are the big revenue generators are already coming to PS and Nintendo consoles. For the rest of the games ?? The largest user base is on PC and Xbox games come out on the same day one to compensate. It's certainly not that MS games are going to be wasted on the XSeries user base, which is how you present it.

The goal of MS is to capture that user base under their control and under their ecosystem. Don't depend on the guidelines and demands that Sony and Nintendo impose...




You're describing a great deal for Sony and NIntendo, quite the opposite for MS.

It's not the subscribers that's important, it's the revenue from those subscribers and the strength of those subscriptions. It's useless for MS to have 30 million subscribers on PS that generate 100 if on Xbox it has 21 that generate 200.

They'd make far more money by having all their games on PlayStation and Switch and taking 70% of everything (sales, MTX and subs) than being trapped on a box that's falling further and further behind those ever growing userbases.

You either get in while the going is good or be squeezed by PlayStation when their subs and cloud stretch beyond their own console.

I'd rather be the second biggest dog on both systems rather than the biggest dog in a tiny garden.

Physical and digital sales are getting smaller and smaller on Xbox relative to userbase because of the gamepass conditioning. They'd easily exclipse that but having all Microsoft Studios, ABK and Bethesda games launching day and date on PlayStation and Xbox and porting over the exclusives.

 

[Darsxx82]

nvm

 

[Darsxx82]

They'd make far more money by having all their games on PlayStation and Switch and taking 70% of everything (sales, MTX and subs) than being trapped on a box that's falling further and further behind those ever growing userbases.

NO, it doesn't. As big as MS is now as a game publisher, they don't make up for the loss of revenue from the 30%+ DLc+ microtransactions of the 1000 games that are released on the platform each year and that are returns at 0 cost. Not to mention that the franchises that generate the most revenue are already coming out on PS and soon on Nintendo consoles. In other words, you're dramatically reducing the number of pitches you'd generate extra returns from versus the ones you're not getting in.

You either get in while the going is good or be squeezed by PlayStation when their subs and cloud stretch beyond their own console.

Or you can bet on strengthening your own ecosystem and platforms and not depend on the demands and guidelines of your competitors who will also offer subscription and gaming services in the cloud and that will harm your growth in them. Again, you're describing a great deal for PS and Nintendo and the opposite for MS.

I'd rather be the second biggest dog on both systems rather than the biggest dog in a tiny garden.

Launching your games on consoles, PC, mobile, and cloud is anything but a small garden. In fact, he throws his games into a much larger garden than SONY does.

Physical and digital sales are getting smaller and smaller on Xbox relative to userbase because of the gamepass conditioning. They'd easily exclipse that but having all Microsoft Studios, ABK and Bethesda games launching day and date on PlayStation and Xbox and porting over the exclusives.

I repeat, this is already done to a greater extent and in no case is that exclusive with continuing to bet on a business with a loyal base and generating most of your income.

 

[StealthGoblin]

NO, it doesn't. As big as MS is now as a game publisher, they don't make up for the loss of revenue from the 30%+ DLc+ microtransactions of the 1000 games that are released on the platform each year and that are returns at 0 cost. Not to mention that the franchises that generate the most revenue are already coming out on PS and soon on Nintendo consoles. In other words, you're dramatically reducing the number of pitches you'd generate extra returns from versus the ones you're not getting in.



Or you can bet on strengthening your own ecosystem and platforms and not depend on the demands and guidelines of your competitors who will also offer subscription and gaming services in the cloud and that will harm your growth in them. Again, you're describing a great deal for PS and Nintendo and the opposite for MS.

Launching your games on consoles, PC, mobile, and cloud is anything but a small garden. In fact, he throws his games into a much larger garden than SONY does.


I repeat, this is already done to a greater extent and in no case is that exclusive with continuing to bet on a business with a loyal base and generating most of your income.

I'll end this here by saying I think you are hopelessly wrong. Don't bother replying. This is going nowhere.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[DaGwaphics]

You can keep repeating the same false statement but it's not going to make it true. They supported PC when they decided to release games on the platform and there's no rule that it has to be day one. Their commitment to releasing their games on the platform.

And no, it doesn't undermine my argument because there are two mere facts that you cannot ignore.

1. No reasonable person within Sony thinks a lot of gamers would buy a PlayStation console.
2. Releasing gamers on PC also discourages gamers from buying a PlayStation because they'll wait for the PC release.

They know the vast majority of their argument on PC would prefer to wait and that's who they're selling to.

You do realize that Sony has said themselves, multiple times, that they feel the delayed release works best for them because it protects the benefits of the exclusive content for the console. Literally only you think this isn't the case, everyone else (even the most ardent fanboys) understands why they are employing the strategy that they are.

Microsoft is third in the console race and saw no growth and that's why they needed to expand outside of console.

Do you realize that Xbox Series consoles are on a similar pace to Xbox One, right? This alone proves it doesn't dramatically change sales and Microsoft only expected a small minority of gamers to leave Xbox for PC.

Your arguments fall flat with basic logic. You think the risk of losing console sales means they not supporting it and that's simply a really bad argument to make.

They can save console sales and support PC by releasing games later on the PC platform.

You're really trying to say they're not trying to support PC even though they're rumored to make their own launcher. This is what you call support. No amount of spinning will prove differently.

I don't think that's statistically accurate, but the above is all irrelevant to the discussion at hand anyway. You were implying that MS expected to compete more directly with Sony's sales, but thanks to the court cases we've already seen MS's internal projections for the consoles with a best-case projection of around 60m units. Unless Sony drastically lowered their outlook for the PS5 in comparison the the PS4, MS never expected to match PS5 sales.

But I do think that MS could sell more consoles with a more consistent first-party release schedule. And in $ releasing on Xbox and PC day and date makes more sense, even if they forfeit some console sales in the process. That's all I'm saying is that the two companies are operating their businesses differently and have different expectations as a result. I was never even saying that one model was better than the other, just that they were different.

 

[Taur007]

Players got smart and moved to PC!

Xbox will always sell, casuals will never touch those things

 

[NickFire]

It's more and more my opinion that the hardware division needs to go and Microsoft should focus on what they do well - services.

Get gamepass on everything possible and publish on playstation and Nintendo. Their software and subs are clearly doing good numbers and it is insane that they are skipping the two largest console platforms.

Offer a bespoke version of gamepass on PlayStation that only contains the missing exclusives and then get around to getting all games ported over. Same with Nintendo Switch 2.

They now own three publishers and have a lot of studios and IP. Putting effort into an increasingly irrelevant hardware platform doesn't make sense any more.

They've got a great shot at doing well on Mobile now as well.

I don’t see any reason to drop hardware altogether. But leaving all that money on the table would be silly with how much they have purchased. Values of purchased IP and studios / pubs would be negatively impacted if they reduce the audience.

 

[Taur007]

Microsoft: We're going to buy the publishers of your favourite games, so you'll move over to Xbox to play them.

Gamers:

Yet, nextbox will have newest cod on GP and will be a launch title, that will be the real test. MS already knows this gen is lost

 

[lucbr]

Phil is really playing the long term game. Highest revenue in Xbox history? Imagine when Call of Duty will be day one in Game Pass, plus more than 30 studios. Xbox won't be leaving the game industry anytime soon.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Or you can bet on strengthening your own ecosystem and platforms and not depend on the demands and guidelines of your competitors who will also offer subscription and gaming services in the cloud and that will harm your growth in them. Again, you're describing a great deal for PS and Nintendo and the opposite for MS.

Exactly. Without their own platform, Microsoft will have to follow what Sony and Nintendo decide on the platform, creating a dependency on that.

Anyway, so far we have seen Sony fanboys reverse jinxing all the time (Phil will retire, ABK will not close etc.). Considering that they are constantly talking about Xbox going third party....

 

[Taur007]

Revenue figures are meaningless without some idea of the profit/loss margins based on current and ongoing expenditure.

"Best ever" shouldn't be surprising when the amount money spent purely on acquisitions over the past few years rivals their oppositions entire market caps! And of course, the acquisition cost is just the beginning of the spend, these new businesses need to fund themselves over the long term.

And let's be honest, for all that money spent so far there's been precious little new added to gaming as a whole. If only MS.Xbox was as good at *creating* brands as acquiring proven successes...

Bro it's only been -5 years since all those acquisitions (2018), don't most PS games take 5 - 6 years to make? Why are we rushing MS studios when most of them were already developing multiplats when they were bought? (Double fine, Bethesda, inexile, obsidian etc) this will sound cliche, but next year (year 6) should finally be the year we really start to see a steady flow starting with avowed and hellblade + whatever else

 

[Taur007]

Phil is really playing the long term game. Highest revenue in Xbox history? Imagine when Call of Duty will be day one in Game Pass, plus more than 30 studios. Xbox won't be leaving the game industry anytime so

Prediction: Next year will be a double digit decline.

They own cod now did you forget?

 

[Gavon West]

Xbox Hardware Revenue declined by 7%, in the Starfield quarter and selling fewer consoles than in 2022, disaster.

False.

 

[Gavon West]

Gaming revenue only 9% up even with Xbox biggest launch ever?

Microsoft changed their game plan ages ago. This isn't Sony. They aren't even attempting to copy Sony anymore. Why this is still some unsolvable mystery......is a mystery!

 

[Darsxx82]

Exactly. Without their own platform, Microsoft will have to follow what Sony and Nintendo decide on the platform, creating a dependency on that.

Anyway, so far we have seen Sony fanboys reverse jinxing all the time (Phil will retire, ABK will not close etc.). Considering that they are constantly talking about Xbox going third party....

The funniest thing is that until days ago (and the thread of the acquisition of ABK is a testament) the reason why they opposed the regulators approving it or new adquisitions was:

1- MS wants to do away with Playstation and monopolize the console market.
2- MS is a 2T dollar company and can afford to make losses and not release its games on PS5 to gain market share
3- It is a danger because it will make their subscription service unstoppable and monopolize the cloud gaming market.

Suddenly the purchase of ABK did not pose that danger and MS's intention was to become a full 3rd party, eliminate the Xbox consoles and release all its games on Playstation because it cannot afford not to release its games on the SONY console. What has changed?? Well, simple, the narrative

 

[DForce]

You do realize that Sony has said themselves, multiple times, that they feel the delayed release works best for them because it protects the benefits of the exclusive content for the console. Literally only you think this isn't the case, everyone else (even the most ardent fanboys) understands why they are employing the strategy that they are.

Do you realize I said it myself? You're the one who is saying this means they're not supporting PC. You support PC by bringing games on the platform. Period. Your spinning and illogical arguments aren't working here. In order to do BOTH without losing customers, you delay the release on PC.

This is why you totally jump over the point that the vast majority of PC gamers will not leave PC for PlayStation, which is why your argument that they're releasing games on PC to bring in more customers to consoles is flat-out laughable.

I don't think that's statistically accurate, but the above is all irrelevant to the discussion at hand anyway. You were implying that MS expected to compete more directly with Sony's sales, but thanks to the court cases we've already seen MS's internal projections for the consoles with a best-case projection of around 60m units. Unless Sony drastically lowered their outlook for the PS5 in comparison the the PS4, MS never expected to match PS5 sales.

It is statistically accurate. The first 3 years of Xbox One are similar to the Xbox Series consoles in sales. This means there's no dramatic impact on sales now that they're releasing games on PC.

I remember when they announced their PC release and it was 2016 with Quantum Break. So you basically have the first 3 years without PC releases versus 3 years with no PC releases.

But I do think that MS could sell more consoles with a more consistent first-party release schedule. And in $ releasing on Xbox and PC day and date makes more sense, even if they forfeit some console sales in the process. That's all I'm saying is that the two companies are operating their businesses differently and have different expectations as a result. I was never even saying that one model was better than the other, just that they were different.

What you said is that the reason why they're releasing games on PC is to bring customers to the console and that they're not supporting PC and you're wrong. I brought up Xbox One versus XBox Series sales to prove that there was no dramatic shift in sales decrease from the previous generation.

According to Hulst, however, Sony's new strategy doesn't mean that the company will release fewer PlayStation exclusives or replace PlayStation titles with PC games – instead, the games developed for other platforms will be just an extension of what the company is doing.

Hulst said before that their goal is to find more users, yet he was talking about finding an audience outside of console gaming.

 

[dem]

Makes no sense to abandon the platform right now.

If they ever break through again in the hardware market they will be laughing.

 

[Three]

NO, it doesn't. As big as MS is now as a game publisher, they don't make up for the loss of revenue from the 30%+ DLc+ microtransactions of the 1000 games that are released on the platform each year and that are returns at 0 cost. Not to mention that the franchises that generate the most revenue are already coming out on PS and soon on Nintendo consoles. In other words, you're dramatically reducing the number of pitches you'd generate extra returns from versus the ones you're not getting in.

So how comes they already accept loss of revenue from Steam? How comes hardware declined 7%. Are you saying they should be worried?

 

[Clear]

Bro it's only been -5 years since all those acquisitions (2018), don't most PS games take 5 - 6 years to make? Why are we rushing MS studios when most of them were already developing multiplats when they were bought? (Double fine, Bethesda, inexile, obsidian etc) this will sound cliche, but next year (year 6) should finally be the year we really start to see a steady flow starting with avowed and hellblade + whatever else

If you assume a 5 year turnaround cycle then everything is going to happen at that cadence. That's hardly a steady flow and that assumes that any successor project doesn't take even longer to greenlight and develop.

What I'm bemoaning is that MS have invested billions into continuity, not new dev. Why aren't they building new teams/studios with at least some of that immense warchest?

I'm just saying that if they were really serious about gaming creativity they'd be a lot less conservative with where they are putting their money. I really wonder sometimes if people fully grasp the sheer magnitude of their investment, they could fund 30 $200m+ budgeted AAA titles in their entirety just for what they've paid for ABK!

 

[Darsxx82]

So how comes they already accept loss of revenue from Steam? How comes hardware declined 7%. Are you saying they should be worried?

For the reason that MS believes that releasing its games on PC does not favor its competition on consoles (PlayStation) while profiting from the largest user base possible? Because also have interests in PC beyond publishing games?
Are they worried? Not at all, I'm sure they know well the pros and cons of supporting consoles and PC at the same time.

From here on, are you one of those who think that MS is going to close its console business? 2027??
The discussion is exactly that, if MS's logical option in the short and medium term is to stop making consoles, dispense with its income and become a full 3rd party and launch all its games on PlayStation??

Of course that's not what you said during the entire ABK acquisition process

 

[NickFire]

The funniest thing is that until days ago (and the thread of the acquisition of ABK is a testament) the reason why they opposed the regulators approving it or new adquisitions was:

1- MS wants to do away with Playstation and monopolize the console market.
2- MS is a 2T dollar company and can afford to make losses and not release its games on PS5 to gain market share
3- It is a danger because it will make their subscription service unstoppable and monopolize the cloud gaming market.

Suddenly the purchase of ABK did not pose that danger and MS's intention was to become a full 3rd party, eliminate the Xbox consoles and release all its games on Playstation because it cannot afford not to release its games on the SONY console. What has changed?? Well, simple, the narrative

When this deal was first announced everyone believed that COD would be exclusive either next year or 2025 tops. The thought of losing COD mid-generation pissed me off quite a bit, so I was completely opposed. I also was honest in that making COD exclusive soon after consoles were available without hunting twitter stock notices sounded like a serious risk for anyone not named MS. But dude, a lot changed in the last few months, specifically a guarantee that COD won't be exclusive for 10 years. So yeah, the risk is gone and I'm not pissed anymore. I bet a lot of people feel the same way.

Funny that you asked what changed in the end of the post and didn't mention the giant pink elephant in the room called a 10 year COD deal. Perhaps it's not everyone else having trouble keeping up with the narratives?