semiconscious
Member
so, which is better, broccoli or spinach?...
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FF16 is the worst paced game I’ve played in a very long time
- Thread starter LakeOf9
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hyperbertha
Member
The combat is low key garbo too. It wants to be dmc without half the depth or difficulty.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
When the game came out, everyone was praising it and now...all I see is cpmplaints about pacing and how boring it is. So which one is it?
SCB3
Member
Its a weird game that when it hits its highs, my god everything about it looks visually stunning and it a genuinely fantastic game, but those grindy MMO fetch quests make me never wanna replay it, its weird as FF&: Remake also has this downtime but its so well integrated you kinda want to do it before carrying on
Someone in the thread said it best earlier, if this had been a concise 10-20 hour game, it would have been perfect, but because its Final Fantasy and they're certain expectations with that, some of it has to be spread out to 50 plus hours for an RPG length. Its a solid 8 or 9/10 for me personally, but it has some major flaws, not as bad as XV's tbh but yea
Someone in the thread said it best earlier, if this had been a concise 10-20 hour game, it would have been perfect, but because its Final Fantasy and they're certain expectations with that, some of it has to be spread out to 50 plus hours for an RPG length. Its a solid 8 or 9/10 for me personally, but it has some major flaws, not as bad as XV's tbh but yea
Interfectum
Member
Neither game hit the mark for me, but at least FF15 offered some level of customization and maintained some essence of the Final Fantasy series. In contrast, FF16 compelled me to farm for materials and items seemingly without purpose. Why was I forced to slog through numerous subpar side quests with hardly any reward? Additionally, I found that I had little to nothing worthwhile to spend my gil on. 20-40k per song? lol wtf.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
XVI is definitely better even with its faults.
semiconscious
Member
& there's the problem, right there. it ain't rocket science...
STARSBarry
Gold Member
I mean your not wrong, I throughly enjoyed my time with the game, but yes especially in the latter half the side quests are just... well it needed better pacing and better variety. I was also suprised by the lack of meaningful side acitivies.
I didn't expect chocobo breeding, but maybe a inuniverse card game and fishing...
I didn't expect chocobo breeding, but maybe a inuniverse card game and fishing...
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
No fair, both of those are great.
hyperbertha
Member
I have read some people praising the story as some kind of high points within the slog and I just can't comprehend it. Some throwaway side villains and an ultra generic final boss. Plot contrivance galore to allow villain to come out on top. It's the worst ff story I've played.
hyperbertha
Member
It's a sony exclusive. This game would have recieved lower scores than 13 or 15 if it released multiplat like they did. And of course people with low gaming standards will eat it up like they eat up all aaa garbage.
Interfectum
Member
Like I said in my early impressions of the game, this game has that modern AAA stink all over it. Very easy, very linear, depth of a puddle and safe as shit.
hyperbertha
Member
You should take a look at the OT. I've been critical about this game and people have been coming at me left and right for daring to criticise it.
ByWatterson
Member
Few opinions are objectively wrong but this might be one of them.
Did you bother reading the OP? I’m talking about main story quests.
I’m going to copy paste what I said earlier because I’ve already addressed this point:
Yes but there are other things in other FF games. There are dungeons. There is exploration. There are mini games. There are new towns and cities to explore. Optional high tier loot to find. Level and grinding opportunities. All of that is used to keep the same core design varied over the play time of those games. This game has none of that. Each town and city is a forced hub introduced as part of the story, there are no mini games, there are no dungeons, no exploration, no optional areas, loot and gear and leveling is controlled by the game and given to you only when the game wants you to have it, and grinding is impossible outside of the hunts which are the one cool bit of side content the game has but also completely divorced from the game’s strengths everywhere else with the storytelling and world building.
Oh no…… I thought I was past the worst of it
16 is still better, in spite of all my complains
I have no problems with them changing genres, just do it well. This is not a good RPG, it’s a good action game but it’s so padded out it dilutes that quality
Both? Some people like it, some people don’t. A lot of people who originally liked it don’t like it now (such as me) or the other way around.
This is an impressive degree of smug condescension given that every single person in this thread disagrees with you
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
Isn’t this what you guys wanted? Since XIV fans can never shut up about how XIV is so much better than all other FF’s with its low budget presentation and horrible pacing?
ByWatterson
Member
Relax, my dude, it's a joke. As a long-time FF fan, I'm enthralled by the game, love every second.
Slothbeing1209
Member
Side quest is really a major let down for me too.
I always find it hilarious how Clive is their leader but they treated him like an errand boy lol.
I always find it hilarious how Clive is their leader but they treated him like an errand boy lol.
Die Namek Ability
Member
What i discovered early on was the cyclical nature of events. Meet and great new ppl -> small time stuff -> threat -> plan to go after threat -> huge set piece and resolution-> repeat.
What helped me a ton was to end my gaming session at the end of each huge set piece to decompress and start the next session.
What helped me a ton was to end my gaming session at the end of each huge set piece to decompress and start the next session.
SCB3
Member
Yea thats I've been doing, near the end now but I've been playing other things alongside it
I don’t know who you’re talking to, because I never once said I wanted all FF games to be like 14. 14 is an MMO version of 9/12, if I want a new SP FF game like that, I’d want it to be like 9 and 12, not 14
Gambit2483
Member
Story heavy (non linear) games nowadays almost always have terrible pacing. How do you tell a long elaborate character filled story and also try to pad it out with hours upon hours of open-ended pesky "gameplay"?
It's not an easy feat and probably why you see this criticism among many story driven open world games.
It's not an easy feat and probably why you see this criticism among many story driven open world games.
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Revolutionary
Member
The only people that say that are XIV players who have never played another Final Fantasy. People who have ended the honeymoon phase with XIV know the game has major pacing problems in every expansion.
But the pacing problems in XIV are due to the nature of being an MMO. The game NEEDS to slow down players in order to prevent new zones from being overloaded. XVI, on the other hand, doesn't have servers so there shouldn't be a need to slow the pace down... but alas, they still designed it this way for some reason. It's bizarre.
There are good ways to do it and bad ways to do it. RDR2, TLOU2, Persona 5, the Yakuza games, The Witcher 3, Ghost of Tsushima, these all do it well.
FF16, GOW Ragnarok, FF7R, Okami, these do it badly. Ironically none of the bad ones are open world. All except TLOU2 of the good ones are. So I don’t think being open world has anything to do with it.
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linko9
Member
The MMO-style design of recent RPGs has been really unfortunate. Saw a good video on this recently:
The map markers, (!) quest markers, and crafting materials that have invaded the entire genre have really destroyed a lot of the basic fun of RPGs, which to me was strongest in the SNES era, especially with FFV, FFVI, and Chrono Trigger, but stayed strong through the PS2 era. Even by just removing all quest markers, you immediately make the game better, since the player actually feels some engagement in finding and completing quests, rather than the whole thing feeling like going down a checklist.
This is all really clear in FFXVI, which at its core is a really solid action game with amazing sound and visuals— but it's been unnaturally grafted with a neo-RPG that brings the whole thing down. The devs feel a need to provide "content", and the only way they know how to do it is with these awful MMO-style checklist-fests.
The map markers, (!) quest markers, and crafting materials that have invaded the entire genre have really destroyed a lot of the basic fun of RPGs, which to me was strongest in the SNES era, especially with FFV, FFVI, and Chrono Trigger, but stayed strong through the PS2 era. Even by just removing all quest markers, you immediately make the game better, since the player actually feels some engagement in finding and completing quests, rather than the whole thing feeling like going down a checklist.
This is all really clear in FFXVI, which at its core is a really solid action game with amazing sound and visuals— but it's been unnaturally grafted with a neo-RPG that brings the whole thing down. The devs feel a need to provide "content", and the only way they know how to do it is with these awful MMO-style checklist-fests.
the_master
Member
Goty so far. But I don’t do sidequests cause they waste my time.
I would remove 10% of the main story quests but the game is amazing overall.
Love it!
I would remove 10% of the main story quests but the game is amazing overall.
Love it!
Interfectum
Member
It's game of the year but you are skipping additional content and would like 10% of the main game removed as well. Not exactly glowing praise!
the_master
Member
You can see it as the game is not perfect and even without doing the sidequests, it is a masterpiece.It's game of the year but you are skipping additional content and would like 10% of the main game removed as well. Not exactly glowing praise!
If you don’t like the sidequests, don’t play them.
GOTY so far
Pagusas
Elden Member
1000% agreed. Its failing are monumental given how much they clash with how good the good parts can be. This game just isn't right in the head, its like a beautiful woman who is bat shit crazy but also weirdly boring 70% of the time. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to finish this game given how "unfun" I find a lot it. Even the best parts don't actually feel very game-y to me, they feel more like "smash button to win" and a bad evolution on QTE's. I just weirdly hate this game, despite liking to look at it (again back to the woman metaphor).
thatsafakewebsitebro
Member
I dunno that Bahamut fight and the cutscene right after is GOATED. The fetc…side quests are optional at best. I’m thoroughly enjoying the game. The combat is fantastic and the actual story is wonderful as well. OPs criticisms are legit though. But that stuff doesn’t bother me as much.
Creamatine
Neo Member
It is a fantastic game with flaws. The side quests are pretty generic and usually just fetch quests or save this person from enemies, but the stories they built around them really do help give the world a level of depth. The character depth is great. You get to know all the people in your camp in depth if you do their side quests.
There is definitely bloat with some of the story. Gil is essentially useless. Not much depth in building your fighting style. No real status effects (they introduce a very small amount of them and it really doesn't impact the gameplay). Limited in terms of gear and leveling up.
But I am having an absolute blast with the game. The story is great. The boss battles are absolutely epic. But it is clear they have mashed together 14 and 7 remake gameplay to put this together. At the same time, a lot of the wants in this game are available in the 7 remake, so this is almost a different branch of a game from the studio.
Dynasty8
Member
Same... I criticized the game for being too easy and forgiving. I said if you miraculously die at a boss somehow, the game gives you a boss checkpoint, full potions and health...along with a quarter of the boss' health gone. Their response...? "wEll, akkktchuly!!!1 iF u diEd aT b0ss, dEn gAmE iZ nOt eaZy"
They don't realize I was intentionally equipping the weakest gear and going into the boss fight with only a couple potions to force challenge, but it was still braindead easy.
I also criticized the absolutely atrocious level design and lack of exploration...the final fantasy faithful came at me full force telling me not to compare to other games or previous entries....ok....
SkillUp's review was on point and the fanatics didn't hesitate to attack him for an honest opinion. I wanted the game to be good as much as anyone, but if we're supposed to turn a blind eye to all the obvious problems the game has, then that's just pure fanboyism, plain and simple.
fart town usa
Gold Member
The game is incredibly mediocre. It's not even a controversial statement outside of people who don't grasp that you can enjoy something and still accept that it has flaws.
Focusing on main quests and ignoring side quests might be help with cutting down on the slog but the game as a whole is easy as balls and archaic as can be. It legit plays like an early gen PS3 title. It's like every gaming sin from back then rolled into one.
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Dynasty8
Member
Honeymoon phase.
This doesn’t work when the game forces them on gamers by making them a part of the main story
SenkiDala
Member
Basically it is an offline MMO. And a bad one. And yes the pacing is ridiculously bad. If it wasn't a FF the game wouldn't reach 65 on Meteoritic.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Don't do every side-quest if you don't enjoy them!
Honestly this line of complaint feels like Nier all over again, and I had enough of that 13 years ago.
There's nothing wrong with side-content that primarily exists to flesh out the character and world-building UNLESS you've already decided that you don't care about those aspects. Which leads back to my first point about why would anyone do something where the rewards are clearly signposted as being not something that they don't find rewarding?
Instant reward quests are marked with a plus symbol. Side content involving boss fights are all from the hunt board. The game is not trying to mislead you, just apply a little common sense.
Nobody is going to be impacted as to whether you love the game or not as much as you yourself will. So act accordingly and don't blame the game for your own stubbornness in pursuing futile behaviours.
Honestly this line of complaint feels like Nier all over again, and I had enough of that 13 years ago.
There's nothing wrong with side-content that primarily exists to flesh out the character and world-building UNLESS you've already decided that you don't care about those aspects. Which leads back to my first point about why would anyone do something where the rewards are clearly signposted as being not something that they don't find rewarding?
Instant reward quests are marked with a plus symbol. Side content involving boss fights are all from the hunt board. The game is not trying to mislead you, just apply a little common sense.
Nobody is going to be impacted as to whether you love the game or not as much as you yourself will. So act accordingly and don't blame the game for your own stubbornness in pursuing futile behaviours.
Shifty1897
Member
I would argue most of the main quests (90%) are fine. Yes Mid's ordeal is a slog and makes me question what the hell the devs were thinking. I do agree the game's side quests outside of the end game are lacking.
I plan on writing a review of my own in the OT thread, once I finish it, all I have left is 3 Chronolith trials and the final mission. Once that is done I'll have all trophies complete except two that are meant for New Game +.
I plan on writing a review of my own in the OT thread, once I finish it, all I have left is 3 Chronolith trials and the final mission. Once that is done I'll have all trophies complete except two that are meant for New Game +.
Mattdaddy
Gold Member
Yep I really like the game overall, but it does have some very fair complaints to levy against it and imo this is one of the biggest.
The pacing & quality of side quests range from terrible to mediocre, and they really start to grate on you after a while. Even for me who loved the game, it was a slog to get through the last round of side quests before the final mission. They are either so short and idiotic they just waste my time, or they are way too bloated and drag on with no fun or interesting payoff. The only ones worth doing, unless youre just OCD about doing them all like me, are the ones that actually give you some tangible upgrade (the ones with the plus sign).
I think they could have shaved 10 hours outta this game by removing/optimizing a bunch of the side quests and it would have been for the better.
This along with the terrible "performance mode" IMO are the only serious black eyes against this game. (Frames singing wildly all over the place between 35-60 is not performance mode. Get it locked at 60 if you want to call it performance mode!!)
Outside of that though the combat, setting & atmosphere, the characters, the main story and the sheer spectacle of some of the events you get to play through were enough for me to love this game. Personally the good stuff outweighed the bad by a wide margin at the end of the day for my tastes. But those two issues would be what keeps it just out of goty contention for me.
The pacing & quality of side quests range from terrible to mediocre, and they really start to grate on you after a while. Even for me who loved the game, it was a slog to get through the last round of side quests before the final mission. They are either so short and idiotic they just waste my time, or they are way too bloated and drag on with no fun or interesting payoff. The only ones worth doing, unless youre just OCD about doing them all like me, are the ones that actually give you some tangible upgrade (the ones with the plus sign).
I think they could have shaved 10 hours outta this game by removing/optimizing a bunch of the side quests and it would have been for the better.
This along with the terrible "performance mode" IMO are the only serious black eyes against this game. (Frames singing wildly all over the place between 35-60 is not performance mode. Get it locked at 60 if you want to call it performance mode!!)
Outside of that though the combat, setting & atmosphere, the characters, the main story and the sheer spectacle of some of the events you get to play through were enough for me to love this game. Personally the good stuff outweighed the bad by a wide margin at the end of the day for my tastes. But those two issues would be what keeps it just out of goty contention for me.
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BacklashWave534
Member
Ok dude. Go back at play COD with the little kids.
FF16 is the best game I've played in a while. I'm actually glad they've ditched all of the extra theatrics.
Thank God I don't have to waste 40 hours playing some lame fishing or card game to get the ultimate armor. I can't think of any 'mini-games' that I've really enjoyed in an rpg, except maybe Chocobo racing in ff7. Most are mindless diversions to distract you from just how mundane the actual gameplay is.
Most dungeons in rpgs suck. Going through a maze where I get to find the same 5 enemies over and over every few steps in a tedious turn based battle system where I'm constantly mashing 'fight' with an occasional spell that is the weakness of the enemy is wack.
The cities are pretty dull in this game and there's not much extracurricular exploration, but that's fine. I like the fact things are created to push you forward in the game.
Thank God I don't have to waste 40 hours playing some lame fishing or card game to get the ultimate armor. I can't think of any 'mini-games' that I've really enjoyed in an rpg, except maybe Chocobo racing in ff7. Most are mindless diversions to distract you from just how mundane the actual gameplay is.
Most dungeons in rpgs suck. Going through a maze where I get to find the same 5 enemies over and over every few steps in a tedious turn based battle system where I'm constantly mashing 'fight' with an occasional spell that is the weakness of the enemy is wack.
The cities are pretty dull in this game and there's not much extracurricular exploration, but that's fine. I like the fact things are created to push you forward in the game.
aclar00
Member
Haha, ive never skipped so many cutscenes and dialog in my life. Im still chugging away, but man it's tedious and doesnt really have any redeeming qualities.
Every interaction is dragged on unnecessarily.
Characters are fairly bland and unappealing...like the blacksmith...he's not all there when talking to him...he just stares into space.
Torgal just seems like a cheap add-on that allows them to say they added gameplay complexity, when in reality no one would miss it due to its simplicity.
I have 500k of gil, but nothing but songs to spend it on.
Environments are just as bland as Forspoken.
Enemies diversity is limited and you never get the feeling of being overpowered.
Honestly, doesnt really feel like a Final Fantasy to me. Granted, the last one i played was 13.
Every interaction is dragged on unnecessarily.
Characters are fairly bland and unappealing...like the blacksmith...he's not all there when talking to him...he just stares into space.
Torgal just seems like a cheap add-on that allows them to say they added gameplay complexity, when in reality no one would miss it due to its simplicity.
I have 500k of gil, but nothing but songs to spend it on.
Environments are just as bland as Forspoken.
Enemies diversity is limited and you never get the feeling of being overpowered.
Honestly, doesnt really feel like a Final Fantasy to me. Granted, the last one i played was 13.
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Celcius
°Temp. member
- The existence of a post game in ff15 (which is fantastic… lots of places to explore and optional bosses). And then you’ve also got the meaty comrades mode as well.
- The main villain in ff15 is much more memorable and cool (and better motivation). Ultima just seemed like a generic dude that talked in a monotone voice.
- I really enjoyed the road trip with the bros in the car, taking photos, traveling, eating, etc…
- I like the ff15 battle system better as well. 16’s battle system is good but it gets a bit repetitive.
- I like 15’s music better.
- 16 has better graphics as expected for being newer but 15 still holds up well.
- I think 15 has the far better story and lore.
- Both games have great casts but I prefer the cast of 15, though I’m salty that some of the DLC episodes got cut.
- The end game transition was better in ff15 imho.At first everything is bright and sunny and then in the world of ruin it’s permanent night and grim and scary with the stronger monsters swarming out there. In ff16 primogenesis happens and the sky turns purple but everyone is still out there like normal and it’s not as impactful imho.
- FF15 provides more of a challenge, especially during optional encounters
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skit_data
Member
Don't take it as the game being bad overall. It's still a really great game, with some of the best highs I can remember in recent memory. From my perspective I just see it as the game could have had a more consistent quality when it comes to the sidequests and gear/equipment. I don't feel sorry about skipping past dialogue with some peripheral characters that did add little to the story. You'll notice when you get furher into the game that they have a pretty smart way of signaling wether its dialogue worth hearing by simply making it possible to skip lines (instead of having a "skip cutscene"prompt).
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