Spaceman292
Banned
Elden Ring says different
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Can an 11/10 game turns a console around?
- Thread starter GigaBowser
- Start date
- Poll Business Analysis
feynoob
Member
You almost gave me scare there.
zomboden
Banned
With some great games back to back which add value to game pass, and make the whole game pass + xbox thing look enticing with the power of a pro xbox x we could see Xbox gain some lost ground. They don't have any chance of beating PS5. At least this generation. The mindshare/momentum behind Sony is way too strong right now.
I honestly think if Microsoft wanted to "beat" PlayStation sales they would have to make decisions that don't make business sense. Like taking games and putting them on Xbox only not PC, (maybe do like 6 months console exclusive, then pc, kinda what Sony has been doing with their late pc ports.) They would have to continue their studio/publisher buying spree, grab up some good well known ips and make new games Xbox console first. I don't think that's happening, because Microsoft is all in on PC Game Pass alongside Xbox Game Pass. And I don't think they will be able to buy many more publishers/studios in large purchases after the regulatory scrutiny of this current one which is still in limbo for god knows how long. Definitely slowing things down a ton.
I honestly think if Microsoft wanted to "beat" PlayStation sales they would have to make decisions that don't make business sense. Like taking games and putting them on Xbox only not PC, (maybe do like 6 months console exclusive, then pc, kinda what Sony has been doing with their late pc ports.) They would have to continue their studio/publisher buying spree, grab up some good well known ips and make new games Xbox console first. I don't think that's happening, because Microsoft is all in on PC Game Pass alongside Xbox Game Pass. And I don't think they will be able to buy many more publishers/studios in large purchases after the regulatory scrutiny of this current one which is still in limbo for god knows how long. Definitely slowing things down a ton.
Horseganador
Member
2014: Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros...all top-level games and nothing changed, market inertia is very difficult to change, Sony would have to be wrong at absurd levels for the tide to change.
Those are not 11/10 games, but in a sense some of those games were even underappreciated because of the bad atmosphere surrounding the Wii U that was caused by the idea that everybody thought the console was already a big flop.
2014: Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros...all top-level games and nothing changed, market inertia is very difficult to change, Sony would have to be wrong at absurd levels for the tide to change.
BoTW was a very impactful game and i think it had a significant role in the rebound of Nintendo. Despite the fact it wasn't really an exclusive game let's say it was a statement that probably had some effect on the Switch lifetime.
There is no definitive answer but it's safe to say it cannot hurt you while bad games certainly can.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
Consistency is more important, a steady stream of good to great games, understanding their audience, and giving them what they want, in the case of the XSX, the console is sold on its power, so, It's fair to assume that a good chunk of people who bought the console are enthusiasts that want to see that power realized in games.
Exclusives play a huge role in that front, since they target the platform specifically and in theory can maximize the output of the console, take advantage of its quirks.
Exclusives play a huge role in that front, since they target the platform specifically and in theory can maximize the output of the console, take advantage of its quirks.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Phil was wrong. They call those 11/10 games a 'system seller' (like Zelda:TOTK).
Sure, no one would likely sell their Switch or PS5 BUT people would likely pony up $300-$500 to buy an XSX if, let's say. Starfield is an 11/10. People ARE allowed to buy multiple consoles.
Sure, no one would likely sell their Switch or PS5 BUT people would likely pony up $300-$500 to buy an XSX if, let's say. Starfield is an 11/10. People ARE allowed to buy multiple consoles.
Last edited:
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Eldden ring no longer niche...
Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
Lol TLOU being an 11/10.
BlackTron
Member
Of course you need a stream of games to support a platform, but the right game at the right time can get you a platform that you have the opportunity to support.
Gaming is very momentum based. Nintendo had the right combo of punches, starting with BOTW. They needed that first punch to hit REALLY hard to launch the snowball and lead the pack, but it would have stopped rolling without follow-up punches, which hit HARDER after BOTW set the stage for floor-mopping. These blockbuster games are like tactical nukes with timing.
I agree Halo made Xbox what it is (er, was) and Phil was right that if they lose Halo, they lose Xbox. They lost tons of momentum because they botched their big game, and that lost momentum has dire consequences for the whole ecosystem.
Gaming is very momentum based. Nintendo had the right combo of punches, starting with BOTW. They needed that first punch to hit REALLY hard to launch the snowball and lead the pack, but it would have stopped rolling without follow-up punches, which hit HARDER after BOTW set the stage for floor-mopping. These blockbuster games are like tactical nukes with timing.
I agree Halo made Xbox what it is (er, was) and Phil was right that if they lose Halo, they lose Xbox. They lost tons of momentum because they botched their big game, and that lost momentum has dire consequences for the whole ecosystem.
Walter Matthau
Member
Can a single game sell a console.. yes, absolutely. Animal Crossing: New Horizons was one of those games where a few million people went out to buy a Switch with no definitive plans to buy other games although I'm sure most ultimately did buy some other games later. Wii Sports was a launch title, but it was another one of those games where consumers outside of the core gaming base went out and bought a console because their favorite talk show host made it look fun.
You need more than one game to sustain sales, but there's definitely been historical examples of games that caught fire with the media or influencers that single handedly helped sell a console. They don't even need to be "11/10" games.
You need more than one game to sustain sales, but there's definitely been historical examples of games that caught fire with the media or influencers that single handedly helped sell a console. They don't even need to be "11/10" games.
Drizzlehell
Banned
I refuse to lift my ass out of my seat for anything less than 14127916 out of 10.
Doctor Hades
Member
Halo Combat Evolved was a critically acclaimed game but it didn't turn the original Xbox into an overnight success. It did get them and Bungie noticed though. I would argue that the original Xbox probably had the most varied exclusives of any Microsoft console to date because they not only had their own sports label but also had the support of SEGA. This is why that console remains my favourite console of theirs to date. It was pretty much Dreamcast 2 in my opinion.
Yet despite decent games support, granted not all great, the Xbox console came too late to make an impact and Microsoft quickly moved over (perhaps too quickly given its red ring of death fiasco) to the Xbox 360, which saw them hit their peak before their slow decline into the Xbox One and Xbox Series era with their lack of first-party exclusives and the depressing lack of excitement surrounding the platform (in my opinion). Microsoft have put too much emphasis on GamePass and not enough on killer games. Starfield could be a fantastic game for sure but it isn't an Xbox exclusive as it will also be available on PC via GamePass and to buy. Bethesda games tend to be hugely popular on PC so I would not be surprised if Starfield ends up selling more units on PC than Xbox and PC owners have no reason to buy a console to play it on.
The fact is that Microsoft lost the momentum they built up with the Xbox and Xbox 360 with a slow decline in the number of exclusive releases over the last 10 years in favour of increasingly stale yearly Halo/Forza/Gears releases, a focus on live service and online games and a general lack of variety in their first party titles. 2.5 years into the Xbox Series console's life, I am still waiting for that triple A system-selling game that showcases the hardware. Personally, I think Microsoft can get back on track but it will take them a long time, perhaps another 10 years to get there. GamePass is all well and great but if you don't have any first-party games on there then what's the point? People aren't going to buy an Xbox just to play third-party and indie games on which are available on other systems.
Yet despite decent games support, granted not all great, the Xbox console came too late to make an impact and Microsoft quickly moved over (perhaps too quickly given its red ring of death fiasco) to the Xbox 360, which saw them hit their peak before their slow decline into the Xbox One and Xbox Series era with their lack of first-party exclusives and the depressing lack of excitement surrounding the platform (in my opinion). Microsoft have put too much emphasis on GamePass and not enough on killer games. Starfield could be a fantastic game for sure but it isn't an Xbox exclusive as it will also be available on PC via GamePass and to buy. Bethesda games tend to be hugely popular on PC so I would not be surprised if Starfield ends up selling more units on PC than Xbox and PC owners have no reason to buy a console to play it on.
The fact is that Microsoft lost the momentum they built up with the Xbox and Xbox 360 with a slow decline in the number of exclusive releases over the last 10 years in favour of increasingly stale yearly Halo/Forza/Gears releases, a focus on live service and online games and a general lack of variety in their first party titles. 2.5 years into the Xbox Series console's life, I am still waiting for that triple A system-selling game that showcases the hardware. Personally, I think Microsoft can get back on track but it will take them a long time, perhaps another 10 years to get there. GamePass is all well and great but if you don't have any first-party games on there then what's the point? People aren't going to buy an Xbox just to play third-party and indie games on which are available on other systems.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
6502
Member
Yes it can.
But not by itself. Halo was being advertised for a good 12 months with original xbox and N64 was a goldeneye machine for many. That killer app can do a lot for your reputation and shift machines, it can turn things around. Multiplayer modes / online can extend the lifespan of the game and was huge for both of the above games.
For a console / streaming service a flow of good games and 1 or 2 great games is probably the minimum you could get away with, but not for multiple years.
If Starfield was an 11 and Forza was its' usual quality they could survive this year (assuming comparable 3rd party support to PS). But they need to start releasing AAA a lot more frequently from then on in my view to be able to claw their way to 60 million.
But not by itself. Halo was being advertised for a good 12 months with original xbox and N64 was a goldeneye machine for many. That killer app can do a lot for your reputation and shift machines, it can turn things around. Multiplayer modes / online can extend the lifespan of the game and was huge for both of the above games.
For a console / streaming service a flow of good games and 1 or 2 great games is probably the minimum you could get away with, but not for multiple years.
If Starfield was an 11 and Forza was its' usual quality they could survive this year (assuming comparable 3rd party support to PS). But they need to start releasing AAA a lot more frequently from then on in my view to be able to claw their way to 60 million.
Last edited:
XXL
Member
And we're done here.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Couldn't hurt!
PendekarRajawali
Member
Xbox used to be a dude bro sports shooter console. Right now? It’s a non binary console.
SeraphJan
Member
For people that think one game with high score, could turn around a console, it will not.
WII U had Mario Kart 8, BoTW, Bayonetta 2, Super Mario 3D World etc. These are all above 90 score, yet it didn't turn WII U around
The reason Switch succeeded is not because of its software alone, its portable nature compared with built in dock with affordable price point is what made it succeed, being able to play console quality game on the go was a huge selling point back in 2017. PSV had potential in that too, its just that Sony didn't commit to it like Nintendo did to Switch.
WII U had Mario Kart 8, BoTW, Bayonetta 2, Super Mario 3D World etc. These are all above 90 score, yet it didn't turn WII U around
The reason Switch succeeded is not because of its software alone, its portable nature compared with built in dock with affordable price point is what made it succeed, being able to play console quality game on the go was a huge selling point back in 2017. PSV had potential in that too, its just that Sony didn't commit to it like Nintendo did to Switch.
Last edited:
Mr.Phoenix
Member
No single game can. But games can. In fact, games are the only things that can because that is the primary function of a console anyways.
In a specific year. Both Sony and MS do a showcase. Both show like 10 games (just an example). Of those games shown, Sony has released all but maybe two of them. MS has only released two out of 10 of them.
That right there, is the problem. Your ability to launch good games consistently builds confidence in your brand. Gives you an identity. You become `known` for something. AMS has done, by not being able to do what they say they would do (and mind you this has been going on for over 6 years now. Isitsmaking people lose trust or faith in them.
The only way to turn that around is a consistent release of very good games over at least a 2-3 year period. And at least 3-4 games a year. When they have built back that trust, they can reduce that to two good games a year. Or even one.
In a specific year. Both Sony and MS do a showcase. Both show like 10 games (just an example). Of those games shown, Sony has released all but maybe two of them. MS has only released two out of 10 of them.
That right there, is the problem. Your ability to launch good games consistently builds confidence in your brand. Gives you an identity. You become `known` for something. AMS has done, by not being able to do what they say they would do (and mind you this has been going on for over 6 years now. Isitsmaking people lose trust or faith in them.
The only way to turn that around is a consistent release of very good games over at least a 2-3 year period. And at least 3-4 games a year. When they have built back that trust, they can reduce that to two good games a year. Or even one.
Rival The Ace
Banned
When
When Sqauresoft announced Ff7 for playstation, that was a wrap for nintendo,as console leader, FF7 is what put sony on the map,Wiisports is what made Wii what it is,and Pokemon is what made the game boys and the DS's runaway hits...I dont know whose giving u that donkey piss that got u talking all drunk,a game can make a system sell and turn a consoles profits around
Team Andromeda
Member
Sonic says hello
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Good games make consoles feel better Microsoft fooled themselves thinking services are bigger than fun games.
Laptop1991
Member
A few 11/10 games would, gamers like to play the best games in higher numbers.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Games are like votes. Sure, one vote doesn't matter. But elections are won by lots of single votes. If you don't TRY to make great games, you literally gave up before the race started.
And Xbox made it sound like they could make 11/10 games but choose not to. i am not sure which is worse, trying for decades and failing, or failing because you never tried.
And Xbox made it sound like they could make 11/10 games but choose not to. i am not sure which is worse, trying for decades and failing, or failing because you never tried.
Puscifer
Member
Pretty much, I think GTA 3 was likely the only game that really sold a console. When it was said you could walk up to a car in 3rd person, pick up a prostitute, kill her and get your money you knew video games were never going to be the same after that and people wanted to see what the fuss was about.
It's a fluke and should be seen as such, no one's buying a 400-500 dollar console for one game anymore. Back then it was an easier sell for 150-200 dollar consoles after their price drops.
I'd say yes, since there's great examples of it happening. Launch titles of course have an incredible track record. Super Mario World, Mario 64, Halo CE, Wii Sports (not a critical darling, but popular) and Breath of the Wild all primed their console for success, or at least turned a potential failure of a system into a potential contender.
But there's examples of it happening sometime after launch. There's no guarantees though, a lot has to come together for it to happen. The best time for a game to change a console's fortunes after launch is during a relaunch for a troubled system and when the majority of the sytem's lifespan is still in front of it. Sonic 2 and its bundle with the redesigned Genesis was so extremely successful that it turned the Genesis into a contender. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl along with the DS Lite revision turned that system around. Uncharted 2 and the PS3 Slim pretty much relaunched the PS3 and set Sony up for success later.
There's some rare examples of it happening late in a system's life. Pokemon Red and Blue gave the tired Game Boy additional years of life. The Last of Us helped the Playstation brand more than it helped the actual PS3, but it burnished Sony's reputation as the place for killer first-party titles between it and Xbox and that helped the PS4 immensely.
Other times though it's just simply way too late or not enough. The N64 had some incredibly heavy-hitting titles early enough in 1997 and 1998 like Goldeneye, Ocarina of Time, and Banjo-Kazooie, and while they sold systems and floated the N64's fortunes, they weren't enough to secure victory that generation. The N64 also had a very late lineup of heavy-hitters in Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fury Day, and Majora's Mask that were all way too late to matter. Resident Evil 4 and Twilight Princess also came very late in the Gamecube's life, and had they come out in say 2002 then maybe the Gamecube sells 40 million lifetime that generation. Halo 2 is interesting since it was too late and not enough for the Xbox, and Microsoft was going ahead with an early 360 launch anyway, but Halo 2 was the online killer app for the first two years of the 360's life, and that helped against the PS3.
But there's examples of it happening sometime after launch. There's no guarantees though, a lot has to come together for it to happen. The best time for a game to change a console's fortunes after launch is during a relaunch for a troubled system and when the majority of the sytem's lifespan is still in front of it. Sonic 2 and its bundle with the redesigned Genesis was so extremely successful that it turned the Genesis into a contender. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl along with the DS Lite revision turned that system around. Uncharted 2 and the PS3 Slim pretty much relaunched the PS3 and set Sony up for success later.
There's some rare examples of it happening late in a system's life. Pokemon Red and Blue gave the tired Game Boy additional years of life. The Last of Us helped the Playstation brand more than it helped the actual PS3, but it burnished Sony's reputation as the place for killer first-party titles between it and Xbox and that helped the PS4 immensely.
Other times though it's just simply way too late or not enough. The N64 had some incredibly heavy-hitting titles early enough in 1997 and 1998 like Goldeneye, Ocarina of Time, and Banjo-Kazooie, and while they sold systems and floated the N64's fortunes, they weren't enough to secure victory that generation. The N64 also had a very late lineup of heavy-hitters in Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fury Day, and Majora's Mask that were all way too late to matter. Resident Evil 4 and Twilight Princess also came very late in the Gamecube's life, and had they come out in say 2002 then maybe the Gamecube sells 40 million lifetime that generation. Halo 2 is interesting since it was too late and not enough for the Xbox, and Microsoft was going ahead with an early 360 launch anyway, but Halo 2 was the online killer app for the first two years of the 360's life, and that helped against the PS3.
ResilientBanana
Member
Multiple great games in a generation can turn a console around. Just because someone has a Playstation doesn't mean they won't by an Xbox if enticed. But good games need to be there and they need to come regularaly. Xbox 360 didn't have a game deficit, Xbox One did and it has continued into Xbox Series.
Alebrije
Member
Nope , even a Megaton wouldnot...you need several Megatons and also your competitors doing stupid things in order to swap places.
Nintendo was the king, they did stupid stuff plus Sony did great so they became the kings from ps1 to ps2 era.
Sony was the king they fucked with PS3 launch and Microsoft did great job with 360.
Microsoft was the king they fucked with Xbox one plus Kinetic, Sony did great job with PS4 launch.
Basically you need to do great and the others waste their adventage in order to change positions and that is what Phil Spencer thinks because he knows Sony is doing pretty so Starfield wont move anything.
But this is how it works, Microsoft needs 3-5 Megatons plus Sony and.Nintendo doing bad decissions in order to swap places.
Nintendo was the king, they did stupid stuff plus Sony did great so they became the kings from ps1 to ps2 era.
Sony was the king they fucked with PS3 launch and Microsoft did great job with 360.
Microsoft was the king they fucked with Xbox one plus Kinetic, Sony did great job with PS4 launch.
Basically you need to do great and the others waste their adventage in order to change positions and that is what Phil Spencer thinks because he knows Sony is doing pretty so Starfield wont move anything.
But this is how it works, Microsoft needs 3-5 Megatons plus Sony and.Nintendo doing bad decissions in order to swap places.
Yeah pretty much this. Their chance of this happening was with hellblade with its jaw dropping trailer. Its been what like 4 years now and all we have is a super short cinematic gameplay clip. Starfield has to be great and follow that with hellblade being great to get some momentum going.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
hell yeah.
where ever the 11/10 game is, im going.
ps love the wii u, but it didnt have a single 11/10 game.
where ever the 11/10 game is, im going.
ps love the wii u, but it didnt have a single 11/10 game.
EDMIX
Member
A long time ago I'd say yes, but looking at the consistent success of PlayStation, I think its clear one doesn't need 1 game to make a console successful, they need a catalog, a library of content that has something for everyone.
So unless the game is fucking move 70 million units, I don't see a 11 / 10 game really turning a console around as it suggest everyone who didn't buy it, would for 1 title and that seems wildly unlikely. I think the focus should be on the quality of many games vs putting eggs in 1 basket for 1 title or something. I think back in the day people were obsessed with the so called "Killer App" and only now realize that such a thing isn't really as important as the completely body of work that can continue to sell the console for the entire generation and beyond.
So unless the game is fucking move 70 million units, I don't see a 11 / 10 game really turning a console around as it suggest everyone who didn't buy it, would for 1 title and that seems wildly unlikely. I think the focus should be on the quality of many games vs putting eggs in 1 basket for 1 title or something. I think back in the day people were obsessed with the so called "Killer App" and only now realize that such a thing isn't really as important as the completely body of work that can continue to sell the console for the entire generation and beyond.
LazyParrot
Member
So the second a niche game moves enough copies to disprove your claim, it no longer counts as a niche game. That sure is awfully convenient.
near
Gold Member
A critically acclaimed game from an established franchise could be a system seller, but from a new IP, highly unlikely. Critical acclaimed games don't always sell well. Platinum Games was founded because of this, Japan Studio shut down after years of developing interesting well received games that failed to sell. To be fair, we just don't really have enough data to correlate commercial success to critical success. But I'd argue that outside of giving a game good publicity, and generating word of mouth, it wouldn't be enough to turn a console's fortunes around.
It's comical that you think I'm talking all drunk while you believe FF7 single handedly won a generation.
As if the PS1 wasn't selling great on the back of games like Tomb Raider, Tekken, Resident Evil, Crash Bandicoot etc prior to FF7s release. If you logically think about it the highest rated game ever even today is an N64 game called Ocarina of Time. If your logic of a single great game turning things around were true the N64 would have obliterated everything with that game and Super Mario 64. The truth is though that the PS1 consistently put out great games and won by having a broad range of them, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Dino Crisis, Tony Hawks... It just had consistent good games and kept its momentum going. The Wii was unique but even that kept momentum with other games outside of Wii Sports; Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy, Wii Fit, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing, Rabbids, Just Dance. the gameboy had great games and little competition in the handheld market. It had Super Mario land, Tetris, Donkey Kong, Dr Mario. What did the competition have? A single great game sells consoles but it doesn't make a console a success. There are other factors and one of the most important is consistent great games that appeal to a broad audience. The original xbox had Halo but still got discontinued quickly.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll