ToTTenTranz
Banned
Why are people advocating for Sony and Microsoft to not make handheld consoles?
Because they can't even get out enough exclusives for their existing consoles, let alone some that would be adapted to and take advantage of being on a handheld console.Why are people advocating for Sony and Microsoft to not make handheld consoles?
That wouldn't be a huge problem for Microsoft because all their games are coming out to PC regardless, so they'd only need a Rembrandt-like APU.Because they can't even get out enough exclusives for their existing consoles, let alone some that would be adapted to and take advantage of being on a handheld console.
That wouldn't be a huge problem for Microsoft because all their games are coming out to PC regardless, so they'd only need a Rembrandt-like APU.
Heck, Microsoft should just launch a "Windows Gamepass" handheld. It was probably in their plans as well, since they're the ones who originally ordered AMD to make Van Gogh, Steam Deck's APU.
Compared to mobile phone gaming, it is by a long shot. It's less profitable too.Do you think the astonishing Switch sales numbers are 'niche'?
It's completely doable in a Steam Deck form factor, however...and I fully expect it's successor to be meeting if not exceeding Series S performance thresholds. Keep in mind Switch and Vita tech is old as dirt at this point and phones a fraction of the size of either can trounce them performance-wise. It's all relative.SONY: PS4-spec Xperia phone with PS OS & Android dual-OS boot options, PS+ integration, controller dock with DualSense buttons, triggers, analog sticks and expanded cooling feature (can turn on (when docked) or off (when in portable mode). Able to natively play PS4 games in base PS4 BC mode, preferred platform for Sony mobile games, Remote Play for PS5 game streaming.
Would NOT be its own independent platform; rather think of it as a portable legacy device for PS4 games on-the-go, mobile games and streaming device for PS5 games all in one platform.
MICROSOFT: No portable; focus on Project Keystone as cheap(ish) game streaming device. High-quality AV1 decode hardware built-in, push it as an Apple TV alternative, bundled with a universal remote. Wifi 6 and ethernet built-in.
You won't get a portable Series S until a few years from now, unless it's "portable" as in the form of a laptop.
4 TF in a PS Vita or Switch form-factor just isn't going to be possible unless probably on cutting-edge 3nm or even 2nm (which isn't even available yet and won't be for a few years).
It's completely doable in a Steam Deck form factor, however...and I fully expect it's successor to be meeting if not exceeding Series S performance thresholds. Keep in mind Switch and Vita tech is old as dirt at this point and phones a fraction of the size of either can trounce them performance-wise. It's all relative.
My point was to illustrate power equivalency to size in regards to Switch. Even throttled, a Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1 can outperform a Tegra X1, and that goes without saying phones with active cooling and minimal throttling exist.Yes but phones also throttle to all hell, and drop from peak performance very quickly. In fact, they only tend to run at peak for a few minutes at most before throttling kicks in.
Portables like the Switch, Vita and I'd also throw in Steam Deck, are designed for sustained performance at their advertised specs for as long as their batteries are charged. They don't throttle like phones do. They have to be designed around that, which is the main difference between them.
I can't see a Steam Deck 2 having Series S-level specs unless it's releasing in 2025 or later, and that's still going to probably require 5nm or smaller. So in other words, a Steam Deck 2 with a heftier price tag than its predecessor. And a new handheld/portable from Sony or Microsoft with those types of specs? Welp, they better prepare to bleed money like they haven't bled for a while on hardware, if they want reasonable mass-market MSRPs to move volume.
Personally I think we probably won't see a portable with Series S-style specs (or slightly better) until at earliest 2026, if you want something in a reasonable $299 - $399 price point and good quality build, and not lose too much on production costs per unit.
Three what, major games?Go on, name three major ones.
No, I don't want downscaled versions of console games like the PSP had. Handhelds should offer something different.
They can, but nobody will buy it.Sony can make a handheld with on par game with PS5 and twice the battery life of Steam Deck
Playstation players will play itThey can, but nobody will buy it.
That brand did absolutely nothing to sell the Vita. The last time Sony made a handheld they completely abandoned it.
All they need to do is put out a Tweet with "God of War is Steam Deck verified!" and that's it, practically $0 in costs and will sell a few extra copies. Repeat for every game they put on PC.
Dedicated Sony/MS handhelds are never, ever happening again, the world has moved on. Sony's already got developers on board making mobile phone games as we speak - because everyone already owns a phone.
I've said it before elsewhere, but I'm really curious how things will go with Nintendo once this generation picks up. The switch can barely handle late gen UE4 games from PS4/XBO and it's having to turn to streaming for most of them. What's their next step for 3rd party support? How much power can a Switch 2 have?
That wouldn't be a huge problem for Microsoft because all their games are coming out to PC regardless, so they'd only need a Rembrandt-like APU.
Heck, Microsoft should just launch a "Windows Gamepass" handheld. It was probably in their plans as well, since they're the ones who originally ordered AMD to make Van Gogh, Steam Deck's APU.
My point was to illustrate power equivalency to size in regards to Switch. Even throttled, a Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1 can outperform a Tegra X1, and that goes without saying phones with active cooling and minimal throttling exist.
One needs to look no further than Nvidia is doing with that very same Tegra line with the Orin family of SoC to see how quickly the power to size ratio hurdle is dissipating, and that is tech developed in 2018. How close we are to seeing that in this type of product is anyone's guess, but these are ARM to ARM comparisons which is not even really the topic at hand, haha.
Steam Deck is Zen2 with RDNA2 and pretty damn cheap. What does Zen4 and RDNA3 look like? Phoenix APU...5.4TF. (Same as Orin, coincidently.) That is 2023. Zen5 is 2024. I suppose the real questions are when would Valve begin setting the specs in stone, when will it hit the market, and what is their price point? The power is already there.
But yeah, 2025 seems likely to me, personally. I'm also curious to see if Nintendo sticks with Tegra for their next offering, which I also suspect to be 2024-2025. If they do, I hope they use Xavier, which is being somewhat realistic for Nintendo, and that lands at 1.4TFs with tensor cores. That would be very nice for a Nintendo handheld.
It may be past time, unfortunately...
The PC gaming device already has its breakthrough device (and is also overrun with competitors,) neither MS or Sony have interests inside the Android gaming device market (Sony at one point seemed like it was going to be active in that back in the Xperia Play / PlayStation Certified days, but that fizzled,) they won't get a handheld powerful enough to play PS5/Series games, there's limited market for a dedicated streaming device (and also, all other devices can do it just as well,) and nobody's crazy enough to do unique-ecosystem portable device again.
If Sony or MS put out a "retro" handheld which specifically played downloadable PS1/2/3 or XB1/360 games as well as worked as a streaming device, that would be something that could fit a unique niche in the market, and would be a market they control and can bank off of. However, there are a lot of hurdles to making that happen (not to mention that Sony delisted its retro games, so it'd be a whole thing to retrofit PSN again with those titles.)
Keystone should require only a cheap <3W ULP SoC from e.g. Amlogic or Mediatek with an ARM CPU to receive and decode video and send gamepad input to the internet. It should be the same as a Steam Link but with faster networking and AV1 / HEVC decode. Van Gogh is way too powerful, capable and expensive for that.I almost wonder, then, if MS planned to use Van Gogh in Project Keystone? I mean why else order AMD to make such a GPU? Unless they have plans for a future Surface device featuring AMD in it.
Keystone should require only a cheap <3W ULP SoC from e.g. Amlogic or Mediatek with an ARM CPU to receive and decode video and send gamepad input to the internet. It should be the same as a Steam Link but with faster networking and AV1 / HEVC decode. Van Gogh is way too powerful, capable and expensive for that.
Whatever Microsoft Surface device was going to use Van Gogh, it was supposed to be announced in January 2021 at CES, and what happened instead was Valve picking up the chip half a year later.
Perhaps it was meant for a Surface non-Pro, with the Pro models getting Rembrandt. In the meantime we found out that Panos Panay's Surface team cut ties with AMD, because Intel somehow managed to get exclusivity again for all x86 Surface models (despite having the worse architecture for mobile).
In what universe Steam Deck is doing great? it just sold 1 million units and i'd argue it wont evet touch PS Vita numbers, i am
aware those are great numbers for a niche product like the deck but let not pretend its making handheld market irrelevant for
both Sony and MS
Still it will not sell 15 million units like the Vita didIts been supply constrained for the most part, not in retails and only sold in limited countries. pretty stupid to compare it to the Vita which is readily available everywhere.
Still it will not sell 15 million units like the Vita did
PS5 and XSX say helloNope.
We don't need weak hardware.