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[NinjaBoiX]

I’ve played this before on PS3 back in the day, so I was keen to see how much nicer it looks on PS5. And boy does it! Such a pretty game, and 60fps is transformative.

I trotted through the first few levels of Boletaria have a great time, until progress gets gated. So I moved on to Shrine of Storms, and really enjoyed the first level. Then it starts getting super difficult and honestly kind of dull visually.

So I moved to Stonefang, similar story. I enjoyed the first few areas, but then it seems to just decend into “random rickety walkways over lava” for most of the rest of it, apart from that annoying tunnel maze.

Again, same with Latria, I like the prison section but Upper Latria is fucking awful. I suddenly remembered when I got there, and noped straight back to the Nexus.

So where’s left to have a go of making some progress? Oh brilliant, fucking Valley of Defilment. A load of random rickety walkways and sudden death drops into the plunging darkness, oh fun!

Listen, it’s a beautiful game at times, and a really enjoyable game initially. But for me the level design just falls off a cliff after the opening few hours, I look at each of my options for progress with absolute dread.

The game is too much like hard work; it’s too oppressive, it’s too frustrating, it’s seems too much like some of the levels were just shrugged into existence.

And that world tendency mechanic, urgh…. I actually forgot about that! That’s absolutely bollocks too.

I think I’ll play something more fun and rewarding.

Discuss/mock.

Ta.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Three]

The game is too much like hard work; it’s too oppressive, it’s too frustrating

This is pretty much what souls games are, no?

 

[AV]

DeS gets a lot of its sense of adventure from the fact that levels don't feel like "levels". They haven't been designed to comfort the player by giving them easy and obvious routes through straight corridors, or giant open empty spaces. The jail feels like a jail, the mines feel like mines, the valley feels like a horrible swamp shack nightmare. Fine if you're put off by it but it's excellent level design. Personally I think it's genuinely comfy for the most part to play through and probably the easiest Souls game to date.

 

[Katajx]

It’s the first one and I like the atmosphere and everything, but from a gameplay standpoint it is the most boring one.

Dark Souls just really opened up their style of game to me and it was hard to go back. Just like I struggle playing the original Mario after smb3 or SMW.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

This is pretty much what souls games are, no?

Well yeah, but to differing degrees and for different reasons.

Bloodborne is extremely oppressive, but I find the level design so much more interesting. Victorian towns, lecture halls, etc. Its a far more exciting game, visually.

Too much of Demon’s Souls is seemingly just a load of narrow platforms floating in the ever present darkness, with very little visual excitement. VoD is like the blood maze from Max Payne writ large.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

It’s the first one and I like the atmosphere and everything, but from a gameplay standpoint it is the most boring one.

Dark Souls just really opened up their style of game to me and it was hard to go back. Just like I struggle playing the original Mario after smb3 or SMW.

Yeah, I enjoyed the Dark Souls games much more, with DS3 probably being my favourite of the whole series.

Wasn’t a huge fan of Elden Ring to be honest, and I’ve not played Sekiro.

 

[lh032]

 

[Fredrik]

I like the game but I kinda agree. Still haven’t finished it and I played it on PS3 as well. Git Gud in my experience is just cheesing or grinding to level up at the start of a level until I’m so bored I fall asleep. It’s my story for Bloodborne as well. Haven’t played Dark Souls, guessing it’s the same. Elden Ring may not be the favorite for hardcore Souls fans but for me it was exactly what was needed in FROM’s games, it’s not nearly as difficult, even when I’m supposedly stuck I’m never actually stuck and can just keep on exploring to level up instead of grinding.

 

[01011001]

it's by far the easiest souls game so not sure how it's supposed to be hard work. the bosses especially are super easy.
the amount of bosses I killed first try is astonishing coming from other Souls games

 

[SlimySnake]

I think it's the lack of shortcuts in those levels. 2-2, 3-2, 4-2 and 5-1 all needed shortcuts. The 5-2 shortcut is right at the boss.

I hated 4-2. Just hated it. So many chances to die in one hit. But then I realized it's a puzzle and was able to master it. Use Soul Remains to clear skeletons on the ridge while wearing a thief ring. Use a Magic shield to negate all damage from Reaper Mages as you charge them on your way down, and the thief ring makes the 4-2 boss a mockery.

3-2 also shouldve had a shortcut but its fairly easy if you take a bow with you and kill all the hidden enemies.

5-1 is just trash. No redeeming qualities lol. Just spam firestorm and get to the boss thats piss easy. 5-2 is way easier now that you can get a new ring to run through the lake. I think you need your world 3 to be either pure black or pure white (dont remember which one) and the ring appears in 3-2 on the very bottom lake behind a pillar.

 

[AV]

I like the game but I kinda agree. Still haven’t finished it and I played it on PS3 as well. Git Gud in my experience is just cheesing or grinding to level up at the start of a level until I’m so bored I fall asleep. It’s my story for Bloodborne as well. Haven’t played Dark Souls, guessing it’s the same. Elden Ring may not be the favorite for hardcore Souls fans but for me it was exactly what was needed in FROM’s games, it’s not nearly as difficult, even when I’m supposedly stuck I’m never actually stuck and can just keep on exploring to level up instead of grinding.

I mean, sure, grinding is obviously not the same as exploration and the latter is better. But both are the same thing, killing more mobs than you really need to to get your stats higher and make bosses very slightly easier. Elden Ring is a very short game if you take the critical path - which I'm not recommending at all, but that's the nature of the game.

Grinding in Souls is borderline pointless. The time you spend making your stats a little bit higher is far better suited to just doing boss attempts which make you better at the game as a whole, where repeatedly killing braindead enemies doesn't.

 

[Katajx]

Yeah, I enjoyed the Dark Souls games much more, with DS3 probably being my favourite of the whole series.

Wasn’t a huge fan of Elden Ring to be honest, and I’ve not played Sekiro.

I love Elden Ring. Still play it off and on. Sekiro is the one I haven’t made it through yet.

I think I treat it more like Skyrim though than a traditional Souls game.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I’ll keep playing it! I have an unhealthy beaten wife relationship with these games, I’ll often put them down for a while then come crawling back…haha.

I actually deleted it flat out after I played for a few hours with my first strength build, I lost a load of souls and just said “fuck it”. But I redownloaded it the following day and started a fresh build as a mage,

I like the game but I kinda agree. Still haven’t finished it and I played it on PS3 as well. Git Gud in my experience is just cheesing or grinding to level up at the start of a level until I’m so bored I fall asleep. It’s my story for Bloodborne as well. Haven’t played Dark Souls, guessing it’s the same. Elden Ring may not be the favorite for hardcore Souls fans but for me it was exactly what was needed in FROM’s games, it’s not nearly as difficult, even when I’m supposedly stuck I’m never actually stuck and can just keep on exploring to level up instead of grinding.

You should definitely give Dark Souls 3 a try if you preferred Elden Ring, it’s got a similar vibe to the world of being a load of proper environments where you can actually see more than 10ft in front of you.

It’s ace.

it's by far the easiest souls game so not sure how it's supposed to be hard work. the bosses especially are super easy.
the amount of bosses I killed first try is astonishing coming from other Souls games

It’s not really that it’s too hard, although the tendency system doesn’t help with that. Who on Earth thought it was a good idea to make the level harder if you keep dying but easier if you’re coasting? That just makes no sense…

It’s honestly just the level design feeling like a proper slog, loads of dark meandering paths and instadeath drops out of nowhere.

The later games had a much more enjoyable sense of place, you could really see into the distance and work you’re way around these villages, castles, etc, rather than fumbling around in the dark with your hands out in front of you trying to avoid the next drop to your death.

I think it's the lack of shortcuts in those levels. 2-2, 3-2, 4-2 and 5-1 all needed shortcuts. The 5-2 shortcut is right at the boss.

I hated 4-2. Just hated it. So many chances to die in one hit. But then I realized it's a puzzle and was able to master it. Use Soul Remains to clear skeletons on the ridge while wearing a thief ring. Use a Magic shield to negate all damage from Reaper Mages as you charge them on your way down, and the thief ring makes the 4-2 boss a mockery.

3-2 also shouldve had a shortcut but its fairly easy if you take a bow with you and kill all the hidden enemies.

5-1 is just trash. No redeeming qualities lol. Just spam firestorm and get to the boss thats piss easy. 5-2 is way easier now that you can get a new ring to run through the lake. I think you need your world 3 to be either pure black or pure white (dont remember which one) and the ring appears in 3-2 on the very bottom lake behind a pillar.

Thanks, I’ll bear this in mind.

Which one is world 5 again?

Valley of Defilement.

Yup, that’s literally the nadir of level design for the series. Properly bad!

 

[SlimySnake]

Which one is world 5 again?

Valley of Defilement.

 

[01011001]

It’s not really that it’s too hard, although the tendency system doesn’t help with that. Who on Earth thought it was a good idea to make the level harder if you keep dying but easier if you’re coasting? That just makes no sense…

that only happens if you are in body form. you can die as much as you want and the tendency doesn't change at all as long as you stay in soul form.

I had world 1 be pure white tendency without even trying. I didn't even do the suicide trick

which is a good trick to keep the tendency up. go to the Nexus after every boss you kill (meaning you'll be put into body form) and then kill yourself there to return to soul form

 

[GermanZepp]

I'm playing the remake right now. I understand the critisism NinjaBoiX . Back in the day Demon's Souls was underrated and then begin to gain adepts. Is a hard, not for everyone game and the level desing in some parts is delivered to pist off players.

At best is cool, original and interesting to discover and at is worst painful and tedious (mostly when you make the run to reach the boss).

All Latria is awesome followed by Boletaria Palace. IMO

After playing all other From games it feels to linear and a little bit dated. The first Dark Souls has one of the better level desing ever though.

EDIT: I loved th game when i finish it in PS3.

 

[fart town usa]

Nah, you just sound frustrated cause of the initial difficulty, you just need to grind a bit and get some key gear. I played through the game the other week, first Souls game I've ever beat. It really is pretty damn easy after a certain point. You can also avoid the dark tendency if you kill yourself in the nexus in human form. Doesn't affect world tendency for anything.

I recommend this:

Get the crescent falchion in 4-1, it's pretty early in the level. Crescent Falchion has an A ranking with magic. Then beat 3-1 and free sage freke, use the bosses demon soul to get soul ray from sage freke in the nexus, then go and do 2-1 and cheese the spider boss with soul-ray. With the Crescent Falchion and soul ray, just level up magic and you'll just cut through everything.

The game becomes insanely easy after a while with that type of build. Fragrant ring in 3-2 slowly regens your MP, adjudicators shield (4-1 I think) regens your HP. With Soul Ray you can just stand at the entrance of various boss rooms and snipe them. It feels cheap but it is what it is.

First 10-15 hours might feel tough but you'll become a tank with the above technique.

 

[Captain Toad]

Top 5 game of all-time for me.

 

[Fredrik]

Grinding in Souls is borderline pointless. The time you spend making your stats a little bit higher is far better suited to just doing boss attempts which make you better at the game as a whole, where repeatedly killing braindead enemies doesn't.

If I played like that I wouldn’t have come far. I hate playing over and over without feeling like I’m progressing. I did some sessions like that in Elden Ring, about three hours of retrying on Margit way too early. Would’ve had more fun playing something else but I got stubborn. Should’ve gone back out in the world to level up instead. Elden Beast was even worse. I still have nothing but hate for that boss.

I don’t know, grinding is dumb but if I see a number increasing I’ll at least sense some kind of progression and can set my own trigger points when it’s time to try another time on a boss. But it’s not fun. I must’ve played the start of that Tower Knight area a hundred times to farm the blue knights, and there was an area with a reaper that was easily killed with arrows that would net you souls from all enemies he had spawned too. I did that so many times.

Fans better close their eyes now…
Imagine if there was an easy mode. Instead of all that grinding nonsense I could’ve just gone into a menu, flick a switch, and keep playing normally, and maybe end up actually finishing the game.

 

[skneogaf]

The game just needs more bonfire save points as it can be tough to get back to your souls at times.

I prefer it tougher but I know some don't like it.

 

[Pejo]

It was literally the first of its kind. This kind of topic annoys me in the same way that "Final Fantasy IV's story was kinda lame" topics. It's like saying "The Ford Model T leaves a lot to be desired as far as cars go..."

It's fine to compare early games to modern games, but it's really dishonest to retroactively say that it wasn't absolutely groundbreaking at the time it came out. I also don't feel that the level design is bad at all. It's not designed to be so "gamey" as future Souls games have been, it just felt like a ruined world that you're navigating without quality of life things in mind for the player. I felt it was more authentic this way, in a manner of speaking. I think unlocking the shortcut in the swamp was a major "whoah" moment for a lot of gamers of that time that actually stuck it out. Hell, even coming down the right side of the rampart in Boletaria was a cool feeling once you realized that you just went through the entire front gate section and ended up where you started.

 

[Banjo64]

Bad take mate.

 

[Fart Knight]

It's not that bad plus it's the easiest Souls game

 

[R6Rider]

I need to play through this again, maybe another meme co-op run.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Well yeah, but to differing degrees and for different reasons.

Bloodborne is extremely oppressive, but I find the level design so much more interesting. Victorian towns, lecture halls, etc. Its a far more exciting game, visually.

Too much of Demon’s Souls is seemingly just a load of narrow platforms floating in the ever present darkness, with very little visual excitement. VoD is like the blood maze from Max Payne writ large.

Dit you try to change the contrast to get rid of "the ever present darkness"? Maybe it would help you. For your other complaint I personnaly choose to play the game world by world and pushed when it got hard. So world 2 then 3 then 4 then 5.
On PS3 I leveled up a lot to get to use the shield that have

Spoiler: stats of a shield

100 magic protection

On PS5 I did not need to do so but found myself against the last boss under lvl 40 so did not find the need to beat it(not enough damage). I will probably go back once I finaly beat Elden Ring.

 

[fart town usa]

It was literally the first of its kind. This kind of topic annoys me in the same way that "Final Fantasy IV's story was kinda lame" topics. It's like saying "The Ford Model T leaves a lot to be desired as far as cars go..."

It's fine to compare early games to modern games, but it's really dishonest to retroactively say that it wasn't absolutely groundbreaking at the time it came out. I also don't feel that the level design is bad at all. It's not designed to be so "gamey" as future Souls games have been, it just felt like a ruined world that you're navigating without quality of life things in mind for the player. I felt it was more authentic this way, in a manner of speaking. I think unlocking the shortcut in the swamp was a major "whoah" moment for a lot of gamers of that time that actually stuck it out. Hell, even coming down the right side of the rampart in Boletaria was a cool feeling once you realized that you just went through the entire front gate section and ended up where you started.

 

[tommib]

Best level design ever only rivalled by Tomb Raider (1996) and Quake. All other opinions are wrong.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

It was literally the first of its kind. This kind of topic annoys me in the same way that "Final Fantasy IV's story was kinda lame" topics. It's like saying "The Ford Model T leaves a lot to be desired as far as cars go..."

It's fine to compare early games to modern games, but it's really dishonest to retroactively say that it wasn't absolutely groundbreaking at the time it came out. I also don't feel that the level design is bad at all. It's not designed to be so "gamey" as future Souls games have been, it just felt like a ruined world that you're navigating without quality of life things in mind for the player. I felt it was more authentic this way, in a manner of speaking. I think unlocking the shortcut in the swamp was a major "whoah" moment for a lot of gamers of that time that actually stuck it out. Hell, even coming down the right side of the rampart in Boletaria was a cool feeling once you realized that you just went through the entire front gate section and ended up where you started.

Pejo knows the score.

 

[tmlDan]

Can't we have more posts about a game being amazing, and good, instead of nitpicking a game from 2009. Cause the new game did not change from that version, regardless of whether you put PS5 version or not.

 

[Shut0wen]

I’ve played this before on PS3 back in the day, so I was keen to see how much nicer it looks on PS5. And boy does it! Such a pretty game, and 60fps is transformative.

I trotted through the first few levels of Boletaria have a great time, until progress gets gated. So I moved on to Shrine of Storms, and really enjoyed the first level. Then it starts getting super difficult and honestly kind of dull visually.

So I moved to Stonefang, similar story. I enjoyed the first few areas, but then it seems to just decend into “random rickety walkways over lava” for most of the rest of it, apart from that annoying tunnel maze.

Again, same with Latria, I like the prison section but Upper Latria is fucking awful. I suddenly remembered when I got there, and noped straight back to the Nexus.

So where’s left to have a go of making some progress? Oh brilliant, fucking Valley of Defilment. A load of random rickety walkways and sudden death drops into the plunging darkness, oh fun!

Listen, it’s a beautiful game at times, and a really enjoyable game initially. But for me the level design just falls off a cliff after the opening few hours, I look at each of my options for progress with absolute dread.

The game is too much like hard work; it’s too oppressive, it’s too frustrating, it’s seems too much like some of the levels were just shrugged into existence.

And that world tendency mechanic, urgh…. I actually forgot about that! That’s absolutely bollocks too.

I think I’ll play something more fun and rewarding.

Discuss/mock.

Ta.

Were you expecting anything less from a fromsoftware game? Sure bluepoint worked on the remake but all they did was bring more detail in the art that fromsoftware made

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The remake ruins the original experience

Nope. Enjoyed both.

 

[ACESHIGH]

God tier level design. I played it a few years ago via RPCS3. for the first time and loved it.

 

[tommib]

The remake ruins the original experience

I tend to agree. Very impressive graphical tech but terrible music arrangements and questionable art direction.

 

[Fredrik]

It's fine to compare early games to modern games, but it's really dishonest to retroactively say that it wasn't absolutely groundbreaking at the time it came out.

What made it groundbreaking?
Edit: not baiting or trolling, it’s just a big claim that I feel it needs to be detailed

 

[DeepEnigma]

What made it groundbreaking?

It started an entirely new genre.

 

[Trogdor1123]

It’s the best version of the best souls game. So, you are wrong! (Haven’t played elden yet)

 

[tommib]

What made it groundbreaking?

 

[Pejo]

What made it groundbreaking?

The soul recovery mechanic, messages, invasion, co-op, the weighted ARPG combat with stamina management, a barefoot cutie wasting time on the steps waiting for you to need her.

 

[tommib]

What made it groundbreaking?

The online systems alone were a fucking revolution at the time. It’s a you had to be there experience that’s for sure.

 

[cireza]

Demons Souls is the easiest Souls by far.

The remake looks pretty bad though. I would play the original instead.

 

[Thief1987]

The remake ruins the original experience

Agree, this authentic hardcore experience in glorious 15fps was ruined in remake. Playing DS in 60fps is disgustingly casual.

 

[poodaddy]

I love this game, the atmosphere and general feel of the world is just amazing. That being said, I can respect your opinion, and I do think From got better at designing intriguing levels over the years.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Remember, it's the first ever souls game. So yeah, it's a bit raw round the edges.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Nah bro. This ain't chief.

You wanna see none existing level desig?

 

[Fredrik]

It started an entirely new genre.

Hmm yeah, true.
It took a lot from Zelda 2 though with the focus on defense in combat and how you collect xp and lose them and respawn at a hub area with multiple paths. Iirc Miyazaki has talked about this. Not sure though, I’ll do some googling.

 

[SLB1904]

Well yeah, but to differing degrees and for different reasons.

Bloodborne is extremely oppressive, but I find the level design so much more interesting. Victorian towns, lecture halls, etc. Its a far more exciting game, visually.

Too much of Demon’s Souls is seemingly just a load of narrow platforms floating in the ever present darkness, with very little visual excitement. VoD is like the blood maze from Max Payne writ large.

Doesn't this literally come down to your tastes?

 

[Fredrik]

The online systems alone were a fucking revolution at the time. It’s a you had to be there experience that’s for sure.

Never played any Souls game online

 

[Calverz]

It looks amazing but yea. Not the best souls by a long way. I’d maybe hve it at bottom of my list. Maybe ds2 is worse.