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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

Surely you can’t be this naive?
Russia is hell bent on annexing territory. Your plan calls for Ukraine to give up nearly 20% of their country.

You sat there with a straight face and typed “sanctions if they break the agreement” while Russia is proceeding with their invasion even under the toughest ever sanctions levered against them? Sanctions that have been watered down due to European countries handing them billions in energy payment fees?

I addressed this in my previous post and hate to repeat, but I don't believe you to have some secret insight into Putin. This isn't the 1930s, I explain previously why not and spelled out the doctrinaire differences that nobody responded to -- likely because you have never heard of them.

There is always more to sanction or more pressure to be put on a regime. Right now the West is negotiating a new round of sanctions. The whole idea is to shift the J-Curve downward through enough pressure and destabilize the regime. It can be done, although as implied by the dynamics of the model, it's harder on authoritarian regimes.

Best way to end this war is to fully equip Ukraine to throw back the invaders and then go to the negotiating table.

Are we disagreeing? This is *exactly* what I'm saying! Facts:

1) Russia invaded Ukrainian undisputed territory in 2022
2) The Ukrainians amazingly and bravely fought them back to the pre-2022 lines (Minsk II lines)
3) In my speak, "turn off the war" and negotiate multilaterally using many tools to phased draw down and have a demilitarized zone in the Minsk II disputed territoties

I've been spelling this out for tens of posts.

The other people want more war, more destruction, more killing

Best I can tell they want option A:

1) The West to invest enough that given years, decades, Ukraine can again -- another miracle -- push Russia out of the pre-Minsk II bounderies and reclaim all their territory outright.

I'm afraid option B will happen:

1) Russian military dominance which is already pushing the Ukrainians back in the East will prolong and horrify the war, more people will die and the entire Donbass will fall to Russia within a year or so.
 

kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
Based on his "studies" and a 100% understanding of Russian doctrine that he alone is capable of, don't forget to mention! We are not responding to his posts correctly because we are incapable to grok them, not because it's just pure conjecture.
 
"Turning off the war"... Dude really. I'm not claiming to have solutions but I don't think that has ever been a thing. And the things you propose are quite frankly more in Russia's interest than anyone's. I guess my joke deserved your condescending opener though, still makes you look even worse here, fyi.

"Turning off the war" is something I picked up from someone as jargon short-hand for bullshit people who do this for a living and work at State or in the EU or these high ups do to negotiate and power broker deals.

Compromise, something Americans no longer understand it seems, requires both parties to give something. Look at the Yugoslavian solution or Korean solution.

FunkMiller is low class and his replies aren't sharp, so it doesn't bother me, but I'm the last guy to apologize for Russia or Putin. Don't believe that for a second, I just see a whole lot of hurt and death and pain coming with continuing the war. And the longer it rolls on with a maniac leader on the otherside that's reportedly nearing the end of his time with his and going crazy, the more times you roll the dice on what is a low probability of a dramatic escalation that turns really, really bad.
 

Gp1

Member
Maybe Russia being forced to integrate more with their new economic partners in Russia's suggested G8 replacement -China, India, Russia, Indonesia, Brazil, Mexico, Iran and Turkey- will blunt these attitudes. Immersion can be great for education.

Russia is like the 30th or so biggest economical partner of Brazil and i don't see that changing in the short term (incompatible products/logistics). I may have committed some math mistake here, but I believe that Brazil import of Russian fertilizer to produce food to 1.5b people in an entire year is close to 1/3 of Germany (and only Germany) import of Russian oil (edit: not oil, gas) in a single month.

The thing with Brazil is way more symbolic and geopolitical than economical, and that can be easily countered by the west. Bidden recent approach in the summit of the Americas was a "gesture" in that way (a very small one, but still...)

Again, nobody answered but tell me your ideal end game? How do you guys see this realistically winding down?

Now the only solution imho is to grind down Russia militarily until this war hits the Russian population by a draft of something. Ukraine has the man power that Russia can't match without a bigger mobilization and Ukraine simply can't match Russias military stockpile without the west.
That is were Europe (and the US) should intervene and stop funding Russia. And even that way, it won't be a fast solution.

The "third world" is starving because of the Russian invasion, not because of the Ukrainian resistance.
 
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kurisu_1974

is on perm warning for being a low level troll
Both he Korean and Yugo solutions were horrible mistakes tho. Half of Korea is underfed and uneducated living under a terror regime, and the Balkan is still a powder keg in the centre of Europe. If those are the exemples to live by...?
 
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Based on his "studies" and a 100% understanding of Russian doctrine that he alone is capable of, don't forget to mention! We are not responding to his posts correctly because we are incapable to grok them, not because it's just pure conjecture.

Where did I claim this? Please cite the post. Thanks.

I just seem to be the only one posting things that rely on rational published doctrine, models or ideas. You guys are using heuristics like "Putin = Hitler" "Bad Man" "Russia must lose". I remember back to the invasion of 2022 when the goal was to repulse Russia from Ukraine, that's my goal. Not to have regime change in Russia or push back to pre-Minsk II lines and settle old almost decade long scores.

I like Neogaf and want this to be a productive forum, perhaps answer the question I asked you and help me understand your thinking a little so we can come to an understanding:

"Again, nobody answered but tell me your ideal end game? How do you guys see this realistically winding down?"
 
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Now the only solution imho is to grind down Russia militarily until this war hits the Russian population by a draft of something. Ukraine has the man power that Russia can't match without a bigger mobilization and Ukraine simply can't match Russias military stockpile without the west.
That is were Europe (and the US) should intervene and stop funding Russia. And even that way, it won't be a fast solution.

The "third world" is starving because of the Russian invasion, not because of the Ukrainian resistance.

Thank you! We disagree, but it's a valid and respectable opinion.

Just know it's going to be a hard and evil fucking road for them and us.

PS. Totally agree on that and I should have clarified, it's 100% the Russians fault. But we must deal with it as a world now.
 

Artoris

Gold Member
sacha baron cohen party hard GIF
 
Half of Korea is underfed and uneducated living under a terror regime, and the Balkan is still a powder keg in the centre of Europe. If those are the exemples to live by...?

My Kosovar coworker just went home for the summer and had a wonderful time as well as a week I'm jealous of on the Adriatic. A far cry from her childhood when she told me she would play with her friends in a field only to come up on a Serbian sniper hidden or finding dead bodies near her school.

And Korea isn't idea, sure, but this is another illuminating point actually. Korea was divided initially post WW2. After the Communist invasion, the UN force pushed the Communists back to the Chinese border (or almost) before the reforming and equipping of their forces by huge numbers of Chinese Regular PLA forces and Russian equiptment. Soon they were pushed far south before a stabilization occurred that was bloody and went on for over a year.

Given what you seem to be proposing here as your "ideal end state":

Ideal end game: restoring Ukraine sovereignity, Putin on trial or dead, and if I can dream, dismantling Russia even further into smaller states. Maybe we can force some of them to remain neutral ;) -- kurisu_1974

You'd have kept fighting until you either lost it all or won the entire Peninsula at any cost. And then you'd want Mao Zedong "on trial or dead" as he was the nation-state actor who committed the invasion of the South with PLA forces to take Korea.

I don't think there's a serious person who would be on board with you... just saying.
 
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Forsete

Gold Member
Ideal end game: restoring Ukraine sovereignity, Putin on trial or dead, and if I can dream, dismantling Russia even further into smaller states. Maybe we can force some of them to remain neutral ;)
I wonder if it isn't just fear gluing Russia together. The fear of the mighty Russian army (say that and try to keep a straight face nowadays) and a bullet to the back of the head of course.

With the pathetic showing against an "small inferior nation" maybe these states don't have to crawl for the übermensch any longer? What is stopping them then from making a break for it?
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
"Turning off the war" is something I picked up from someone as jargon short-hand for bullshit people who do this for a living and work at State or in the EU or these high ups do to negotiate and power broker deals.

Compromise, something Americans no longer understand it seems, requires both parties to give something. Look at the Yugoslavian solution or Korean solution.

FunkMiller is low class and his replies aren't sharp, so it doesn't bother me, but I'm the last guy to apologize for Russia or Putin. Don't believe that for a second, I just see a whole lot of hurt and death and pain coming with continuing the war. And the longer it rolls on with a maniac leader on the otherside that's reportedly nearing the end of his time with his and going crazy, the more times you roll the dice on what is a low probability of a dramatic escalation that turns really, really bad.

The amount of cowardice seeping from your post is disgusting.
 

MrA

Member
I wonder if it isn't just fear gluing Russia together. The fear of the mighty Russian army (say that and try to keep a straight face nowadays) and a bullet to the back of the head of course.

With the pathetic showing against an "small inferior nation" maybe these states don't have to crawl for the übermensch any longer? What is stopping them then from making a break for it?
nihilism is a major problem for Russian men, unfortunately this invasion is probably giving them some sense of purpose, no matter how misguided, or they don't mind throwing their lives away, either way it is bad
 

Tams

Member
I don't think Putin will be around much longer. He looks like shit. No idea what happens with Russia when he is gone. Better or worse? I would love to see a cease fire or diplomatic solution. Unless you have stock in Lockheed Martin, more war is more death and I don't see why so many now support a continued war.
Geez, give over with the 'war merchants' narrative.

Of course there will be some, but defence companies make more than enough from defence needs and the mere prospect of war. They don't actually need war to happen to get filthy rich (and for some, like the IED detection guys who made a fake, their equipment actually being used is not good for them).

You also have an incredibly shallow and simplistic interpretation of the situation.

  • Do you really think Russia will stop if they gain from this? They've already clearly stated they want more.
  • Do you really think Ukrainians, especially after the atrocities to civilians, are going to be content with any Russian occupation of their territory?
  • Do you honestly think the Russians stuck around Kyiv for a month just to force Kyiv to hand over some territory?
 

Tams

Member
You call me naive, alright, but then pivot and expect us to believe that you can use "billions" to restore his military. I don't think you understand this aspect, this isn't Command and Conquer: Red Alert where you just buy a few more units and march off in a new direction. A generation of trained leaders and officers are gone, obliterated. This harkens back to a midlevel parallel of the Purges of the 1930s in Stalinist Russia, look what happened when they remobilized (just like you think is so easy) and got destroyed en masse by the Fins and then Germans in '41. And your idea that they can just whip up new equipment is ridiculous on face value, their armament industry is decimated by the sanctions. Armor production has halted. They are crowdsourcing supplies for their airforce. Oh, they can beat Ukraine to death on the land, and believe me, they will, but against any western NATO article5 nation, I mean, what planet do you inhabit?

Justice? This isn't some world where there is a God that distributes equal justice under the law and keeps tab of cosmic karma. Putin's an animal, but he'll ravage Ukraine the longer this goes on. Would a dead Ukrainian solder rather have died defending Kiev and stopping the war or died so that their family in Kharkiv can get thrown out of their homes, starved on the road for a month, raped and then murdered and buried in a mass grave? I want an answer.

The Hitler comparisons are overly simplistic, but unlike you I realize I don't know you so refuse to call you "naive" as you did me. The stability–instability paradox and minimal deterrence policy looms large here, this dynamic didn't exist during the 1930s. Russia has few people it can go after now that NATO expansion into Scandinavia is likely. The Baltic is Article5 and there is tremendous research demonstrating the stability of nuclear power on nuclear power conflict and lack thereof, even conventionally.

But let's think that what you said was smart and valid and game it out historically, counter-factually. Historically, Germany took the Sudetenland as they claimed it was filled with ethnic Germans that were being persecuted and the Munich Agreements between the European powers sought to find peace in 1938. Nice parallel. Let's now diverge and say that when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia in 1939, the Czechs got pushed back to a fraction of their size in Slovokia and their major cities were being met by German armored spearheads. But, the Czech's we backed up by the Western nations and Russians and given huge sums of arms and money and aim and amazingly, miraculously, they fought even harder that historically (and I'm Czech, so no offense to the Czech's) they pushed them back to the Munich Agreement lines of '38. The war stalemated and the death toll rose precipitously. Western Intelligence suggested the Germans would regain the momentum. Meanwhile, Germany was an industrial power and it's removal caused huge disruptions to the world economy, inflation and food supply (exaggeration, but need the parallel). Hitler's army was destroyed as an effective force, the officer corps that we now infamously know -- Guderian, Manstein, von Kleist, Rommel, etc... some dead, other's in disarray. The Luftwaffe begging for parts and unable to fly. The armor and trucks and infrastructure of the army totally fucked and world wide sanctions preventing rebuilding at scale.

So, now, you're telling me that even in your magical situation where we know Hitler was still a fucking madman asshole the likes of which the world rarely encounters, you couldn't have seen the European powers reach out and call for a ceasefire and end to the death at the Munich boundaries and saying let's demilitarilze the Sudetenland as an independent buffer? You'd basically be saying fight on, retake it all at any cost.

Only in our timeline, the separatist lands were basically autonomous for almost a decade, not 1 year.

Edit and Restated: What are your end goals? What do you hope to see achieved? Why do you want OTHER PEOPLE to fight and die?
Why are you telling the Ukrainians what they should do?

scotty GIF
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Geez, give over with the 'war merchants' narrative.

Apparently, for some people, if you support a nation's right to self determination, and support their right to defend themselves with arms supplied from our own nations, you are somehow... in the wrong?

What the hell has happened to people's moral compasses? Are they so entrenched in a hatred of the west that they would rather see Ukraine crushed under Putin's boot, than ever side with those prosecuting what could definitely be perceived as an honourable counterattack to Russian aggression?

Or are they just so incredibly naive and soft in the head that they think warfare is not sometimes (if rarely) necessary for the betterment of our collective society?
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Ukrainian army, not scouts, is about 10 clicks from Kherson.

Currently on the Kherson front the north and the west are holding, but the south end by sea is collapsing quickly as the Ukrainians secure advances.

If this continues it might become possible for Ukrainians to split off Kherson from the rest of the pocket, since there’s a river about 150m wide north of the city.
 

Tams

Member
Apparently, for some people, if you support a nation's right to self determination, and support their right to defend themselves with arms supplied from our own nations, you are somehow... in the wrong?

What the hell has happened to people's moral compasses? Are they so entrenched in a hatred of the west that they would rather see Ukraine crushed under Putin's boot, than ever side with those prosecuting what could definitely be perceived as an honourable counterattack to Russian aggression?

Or are they just so incredibly naive and soft in the head that they think warfare is not sometimes (if rarely) necessary for the betterment of our collective society?
I'm of the belief that of those that spout off that nonsense that most are not naïve and ignorant.

I think those that are naïve and/or ignorant generally don't talk or even think about such issues much. They'd much rather think and talk about the latest book/film/game/etc. Now, that's a problem, but a separate one.

Of those that do go on diatribes about the military-industrial complex, past transgressions or even atrocities that the perpetrating nations haven't shown any recent want for, domestic political issues, etc. there are two types.

Trolls/shills/bots/agents for the state/entity currently commiting atrocities and those who have bones to pick with others.

The former are quite simple to understand; no discussion needed there and can be banned from forums like this.

The latter... well to put it kindly they have great dearths in perspective and are incredibly selfish. All that matters to them is that they get revenge for their percieved injustice.
 
Russia is like the 30th or so biggest economical partner of Brazil and i don't see that changing in the short term (incompatible products/logistics). I may have committed some math mistake here, but I believe that Brazil import of Russian fertilizer to produce food to 1.5b people in an entire year is close to 1/3 of Germany (and only Germany) import of Russian oil (edit: not oil, gas) in a single month.

The thing with Brazil is way more symbolic and geopolitical than economical, and that can be easily countered by the west. Bidden recent approach in the summit of the Americas was a "gesture" in that way (a very small one, but still...)



Now the only solution imho is to grind down Russia militarily until this war hits the Russian population by a draft of something. Ukraine has the man power that Russia can't match without a bigger mobilization and Ukraine simply can't match Russias military stockpile without the west.
That is were Europe (and the US) should intervene and stop funding Russia. And even that way, it won't be a fast solution.

The "third world" is starving because of the Russian invasion, not because of the Ukrainian resistance.
The west has lost Brazil a long time ago. China is by far the largest trading partner of it. I guess most of the LA is the same nowadays.
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Christ how many posters are there on GAF that support Russia even if it's not blatant af, this Ukraine should just cede land, pursue peace, give up bla bla bla... No they shouldn't, they should continue to fight like fuck for every single inch of land that those cunts have taken, if it where me I wouldn't stop until the last orc was either dead or fleeing and even then I'd be shooting them in the back as they crossed the border. You don't negotiate with evil, you don't discuss terms with Russia, you hammer them and you keep hammering them till fuck off and I am more than happy for my way of life to take a hit financially through increased living costs if it means Russians suffer.. I'm pretty sure Ukrainians feel the same and the only cunts wanting to negotiate a peace are fucking outside sympathetic blowovers
 

Tams

Member
Christ how many posters are there on GAF that support Russia even if it's not blatant af, this Ukraine should just cede land, pursue peace, give up bla bla bla... No they shouldn't, they should continue to fight like fuck for every single inch of land that those cunts have taken, if it where me I wouldn't stop until the last orc was either dead or fleeing and even then I'd be shooting them in the back as they crossed the border. You don't negotiate with evil, you don't discuss terms with Russia, you hammer them and you keep hammering them till fuck off and I am more than happy for my way of life to take a hit financially through increased living costs if it means Russians suffer.. I'm pretty sure Ukrainians feel the same and the only cunts wanting to negotiate a peace are fucking outside sympathetic blowovers
We'll never know, but I wonder if they are Russian morons trying to turn here into another of their cesspits, or if it's just the normal contrarians with no sense of propriety.

There's a defence website I visit that has one particular one. He's wordy, like some of the ones here, but his justification of Russia's invasion is absolute disgusting.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Christ how many posters are there on GAF that support Russia even if it's not blatant af, this Ukraine should just cede land, pursue peace, give up bla bla bla... No they shouldn't, they should continue to fight like fuck for every single inch of land that those cunts have taken, if it where me I wouldn't stop until the last orc was either dead or fleeing and even then I'd be shooting them in the back as they crossed the border. You don't negotiate with evil, you don't discuss terms with Russia, you hammer them and you keep hammering them till fuck off and I am more than happy for my way of life to take a hit financially through increased living costs if it means Russians suffer.. I'm pretty sure Ukrainians feel the same and the only cunts wanting to negotiate a peace are fucking outside sympathetic blowovers

Russia has a lot of support on both ideological extremes:

tankies, commies and associated leftoids remember with fondness stalin and soviet russia
alt-righters, trumpers and associated hate groups love putin's traditionalist tyranny where gays and minorities are suppressed

As a result you've got a considerable amount of people who support the war crimes happenning in Ukraine.

edit: i would also add that my country is currently ruled by a coalition between a center-left party and a leftist party and the later has refused to condemn publically russia yet... smh fucking shameful shit.
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
We'll never know, but I wonder if they are Russian morons trying to turn here into another of their cesspits, or if it's just the normal contrarians with no sense of propriety.

There's a defence website I visit that has one particular one. He's wordy, like some of the ones here, but his justification of Russia's invasion is absolute disgusting.
I don't think it's anything as blatant, Russian trolls can easily be humiliated back into their holes, I'd say it's more contraians, alt right arseholes etc, my issue is you'd have to be one helluva proper cunt to back Russia knowing what they're upto, brain-dead zombies from Russia I can understand but people from the west with free media and access to actual news and not echo chambers need a slap
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
You don't negotiate with evil, you don't discuss terms with Russia,
Of course you do, your opinion is that of a petulant child. The world is coming out of 2 year paralysis due to Covid with high inflation on the horizon probably till at least 2024.
Add to that increase energy costs, and you have a real shit.
Nobody wants this war, and major countries will not die for Ukraine, since Ukrainians do not vote in German, French, etc. elections.

Ukraine cannot won without major EU support for years to come - sorry not sorry, get a peace deal going and focus on rebuilding.
 
Of course you do, your opinion is that of a petulant child. The world is coming out of 2 year paralysis due to Covid with high inflation on the horizon probably till at least 2024.
Add to that increase energy costs, and you have a real shit.
Nobody wants this war, and major countries will not die for Ukraine, since Ukrainians do not vote in German, French, etc. elections.

Ukraine cannot won without major EU support for years to come - sorry not sorry, get a peace deal going and focus on rebuilding.

Please tell us, what peace deal you think would be ok with Putin and would you find acceptable for Ukraine? Give them all the land they are currently occupying? Give up their army like they did their nukes with promises of never being attacked again? Just forgive all the murdered civilians while we're at it? Come on man, show us your great negotiation skills.
Your trash opinion is that of a person that is speaking from a safe place that isn't constantly being bombed by an agressor that is murdering civilians. Easy to talk from your ivory tower then I guess.

"But but but mommy, my energy prices are up and my fuel toooooooooo... can't the ukrainians/western countries just let the russians murder/rape/steal their way trough ukraine because this is really annoying me. I might not be able to afford the next videogame DLC lootbox :( :( :("

Give me a break.

Christ how many posters are there on GAF that support Russia even if it's not blatant af, this Ukraine should just cede land, pursue peace, give up bla bla bla... No they shouldn't, they should continue to fight like fuck for every single inch of land that those cunts have taken, if it where me I wouldn't stop until the last orc was either dead or fleeing and even then I'd be shooting them in the back as they crossed the border. You don't negotiate with evil, you don't discuss terms with Russia, you hammer them and you keep hammering them till fuck off and I am more than happy for my way of life to take a hit financially through increased living costs if it means Russians suffer.. I'm pretty sure Ukrainians feel the same and the only cunts wanting to negotiate a peace are fucking outside sympathetic blowovers

These are people who have no stake in the war or like the moron above are being inconvenience by the war because their energy and pasta prices are up.
 
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Brazen

Member
Peace deal only works when the aggressor's intentions is peace. Russia has consistently shown that isn't the case by breaking past treaties and using current talks for its own gain to reposition and stall.

For Russia it's either submit to or continue the invasion. Ukraine doesn't need to negotiate except with ammunition until Russia is willing to shift their perspective on a war they started and is in full control of ending it at any time...

Until then I agree with the Ukrainians no matter how "childish" it may seem, Fuck Russia.
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Of course you do, your opinion is that of a petulant child. The world is coming out of 2 year paralysis due to Covid with high inflation on the horizon probably till at least 2024.
Add to that increase energy costs, and you have a real shit.
Nobody wants this war, and major countries will not die for Ukraine, since Ukrainians do not vote in German, French, etc. elections.

Ukraine cannot won without major EU support for years to come - sorry not sorry, get a peace deal goi, ng and focus on rebuilding.
My opinion is that of a petulant child? Really? You're the one throwing your toys outa the pram because shit is affecting you, well big lad suck it to fuck up, Russia is trying to rewrite the world order and make facism the dominant force and you want to negotiate with those cunts cause it's costs more to fuel your car?

Ukraine can win this war with the support of the west, obviously not with the support of turncoats like you, who at the first sign of the Nazis would happily help build the camps. It's cunts like you with no backbone, happy to turn a blind eye that has emboldened Putin
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Of course you do, your opinion is that of a petulant child. The world is coming out of 2 year paralysis due to Covid with high inflation on the horizon probably till at least 2024.
Add to that increase energy costs, and you have a real shit.
Nobody wants this war, and major countries will not die for Ukraine, since Ukrainians do not vote in German, French, etc. elections.

Ukraine cannot won without major EU support for years to come - sorry not sorry, get a peace deal going and focus on rebuilding.

RgH3FnK.png
 

gradient

Resident Cheap Arse
Of course you do, your opinion is that of a petulant child. The world is coming out of 2 year paralysis due to Covid with high inflation on the horizon probably till at least 2024.
Add to that increase energy costs, and you have a real shit.
Nobody wants this war, and major countries will not die for Ukraine, since Ukrainians do not vote in German, French, etc. elections.

Ukraine cannot won without major EU support for years to come - sorry not sorry, get a peace deal going and focus on rebuilding.

Those major EU countries you mention both have relied upon other major countries dying for them in the past... and still rely on it now. You can be sure they'll be asking for the very aid and support you're rallying against should Russia keep rolling on up to and across their borders.

You wouldn't exist had the world taken such a short sighted and selfish view. Perhaps you should reflect on that before advocating the sacrifice of others in the name of a peace that the aggressor has both said and demonstrated is not on the table.
 

Tams

Member
get a peace deal going
Wtf?

Moral issues aside, doing that will just lead to Russia finishing their invasion in a few years when they'd regained aome of their military strength. This is prettyuch certain as:
  • Any peace deal would involve Ukraine ceding territory to Russia
  • Any peace deal would involve Ukraine agreeing to military reductions
  • Any peace deal would require most Western sanctions on Russia being dropped
  • Putin doesn't give a shit about Russian lives, so would be prepared to go in again while his forces wouldn't be back to strength
  • It would send a global message that you can invade another country and expect the global community to merely condemn it and then give you part or even all of that country
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
It makes me really physically sicks, how much pussies are around the globe (but mostly in EU-west). Fuck me, all my history classes I have been taught how nobody gave a shit about us, despite joining some agreements with west for protection. Nothing come out of it, we had to fight on our own. And back then I didn't get it, because ehh, history.

But now I do.

I get it that some african or west asian countries are fucked without much help, that fucking sucks obviously, but in many such places Russia is always present and do the worst crimes. People at very least should be sympathetic to those countries, which gets a sight of relieve when Russia is going to be fucked into isolation and where those inbreds won't have enough money for their imperialistic ambition. I sort of accepted that we slavs are mostly seen as fucking untermench, who serve no other purpose than to LARP a wall and keep the Russia far away geologically. And it's fucking shameful.
 

MrA

Member
Wtf?

Moral issues aside, doing that will just lead to Russia finishing their invasion in a few years when they'd regained aome of their military strength. This is prettyuch certain as:
  • Any peace deal would involve Ukraine ceding territory to Russia
  • Any peace deal would involve Ukraine agreeing to military reductions
  • Any peace deal would require most Western sanctions on Russia being dropped
  • Putin doesn't give a shit about Russian lives, so would be prepared to go in again while his forces wouldn't be back to strength
  • It would send a global message that you can invade another country and expect the global community to merely condemn it and then give you part or even all of that country
What drives me nuts is this already happened once I. This exact conflict Russia took crimea and then decided, Whelp I'm hungry again time for more
And bigger picture Poland, Lithuania, Estonia etc are on tve Russian menu and if they get it all, , we know Taiwan is on China's

And I don't think any of us that want to support Ukraine war effort want our military on the ground with them. It seems to be if they want to fight, help them fight vs like there could peace and nice it'd be nice because nobody wants this war (ignoring the aggressor does and the defenders are fighting back because they want to)
 

FunkMiller

Member
Of course you do, your opinion is that of a petulant child. The world is coming out of 2 year paralysis due to Covid with high inflation on the horizon probably till at least 2024.
Add to that increase energy costs, and you have a real shit.
Nobody wants this war, and major countries will not die for Ukraine, since Ukrainians do not vote in German, French, etc. elections.

Ukraine cannot won without major EU support for years to come - sorry not sorry, get a peace deal going and focus on rebuilding.

Thousands of people went to war, and sacrificed a great deal, to save your country.

Try to be a little more understanding of that when you talk about what’s happening in Ukraine, eh?
 
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Tams

Member
What drives me nuts is this already happened once I. This exact conflict Russia took crimea and then decided, Whelp I'm hungry again time for more
And bigger picture Poland, Lithuania, Estonia etc are on tve Russian menu and if they get it all, , we know Taiwan is on China's

And I don't think any of us that want to support Ukraine war effort want our military on the ground with them. It seems to be if they want to fight, help them fight vs like there could peace and nice it'd be nice because nobody wants this war (ignoring the aggressor does and the defenders are fighting back because they want to)
Thankfully, especially with the Russian losses, Poland isn't on the menu, at least in Putin's lifetime.

But Moldova? Absolutely if Ukraine falls, due to 'Transnistria' and Moldova having effectively no armed forces. Georgia would like be back on the menu too.

Not so sure about the Baltics and an attack on the Suwalki Gap, as that would be an attack on NATO. I don't think Russia are that far gone.

China would absolutely have a go at Taiwan.
 
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Facism

Member
Thankfully, especially with the Russian losses, Poland isn't on the menu, at least in Putin's lifetime.

But Moldova? Absolutely if Ukraine falls, due to 'Transnistria' and Moldova having effectively no armed forces. Georgia would like be back on menu too.

Not so sure about the Baltics and an attack on Suwalki Gap, as that would be an attack on NATO. I don't think Russia are that far gone.

China would absolutely have a go at Taiwan.

yeh some people don't understand how many dominos fall if Ukraine capitulates.
 
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