HieroglyphicMonk
Banned
Playing Pacman, solitaire, and mine craft is gaming on a PC....
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Washington Post: Sony and Nintendo are not in-step with how the rest of the software industry works
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Which they are free to do. Especially PS5 exclusives. It's just ridiculous to charge differently for a game being shipped on two generations because that development work was already budgeted and scheduled.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
To put into perspective charging for incremental upgrades:
- PC and consoles recently (as BC becomes standard) had not charged for upgrades
- The most recent example of PS4 Pro and One X being boosts didn't charge gamers $10 more either
- Gamers as a whole try to get games for as cheap as possible, and even trade back games, share physical games, do home sharing to cut costs of digital etc.... It's not like the average gamer is a Williams Sonoma shopper buying peppermint chocolate for $52 per tin box and $800 espresso machines. The gaming population has a value mindset. Save some bucks where possible and not get gimped by greedy corporations which have grown giant lately with mtx profits
So add it up, and for some gamers to defend $70, or hoping Sony re-backtracked and stood firm on no free upgrade, so Sony's balance sheets can perk up millions more dollars just goes to show how brand minded some people are instead of consumer/value minded.
- PC and consoles recently (as BC becomes standard) had not charged for upgrades
- The most recent example of PS4 Pro and One X being boosts didn't charge gamers $10 more either
- Gamers as a whole try to get games for as cheap as possible, and even trade back games, share physical games, do home sharing to cut costs of digital etc.... It's not like the average gamer is a Williams Sonoma shopper buying peppermint chocolate for $52 per tin box and $800 espresso machines. The gaming population has a value mindset. Save some bucks where possible and not get gimped by greedy corporations which have grown giant lately with mtx profits
So add it up, and for some gamers to defend $70, or hoping Sony re-backtracked and stood firm on no free upgrade, so Sony's balance sheets can perk up millions more dollars just goes to show how brand minded some people are instead of consumer/value minded.
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supernova8
Banned
Here's an idea, vote with your wallet and either (1) don't even buy a PS5 at all (if you haven't already), (2) always buy the last-gen version (for as long as possible) and never pay the upgrade if they offer a paid one, or (3) refuse to pay "full price" for any PS5 game out of principle, always wait for them to go on sale and don't give them the satisfaction of getting $70 from you.
Money talks and anything else is just us neckbeards bickering on the internet.
Money talks and anything else is just us neckbeards bickering on the internet.
Ghostdance
Neo Member
Until PC gaming comes as simple as pushing the on button , will not become mainstream. I love PC gaming but to the casual it is a pain until they make it so it is no there is no upgrade path or confusion over software compaibility issues. So when it comes to graphically pushing games I go to PS5 but when it comes to strategy games I move to PC.
PC gaming is mainstream it's just not mainstream in a living room..
You’re talking about multi generational behind. This is literally one more generation forward. Not the same argument in the slightest.
supernova8
Banned
We shall see if people pay for upgrades when the free ones are over. If people pay the upgrade fee then it obviously wasn't ridiculous after all.
Plus, weren't PS4 games also like $10 more expensive than PS3 ones? I certainly remember them creeping up to 54.99 (GBP) vs 44.99/49.99 PS3 games in the UK. People just accepted it so why do you think it would be any different this time?
ManaByte
Gold Member
I don’t know. If you buy a PC now you can just turn it on and go to Steam and download a game that’ll work and run great on your system. It’s not like having to go to a store on a console and make sure you’re downloading the right version of a game for that console. Ironically buying PC games is now simpler.
Ghostdance
Neo Member
You are right it is mainstream amongst core gamers, But everybody I know that has kids buys them a switch and they are not willing to educate themselves(understandably) on PC gaming.
Fredrik
Member
That scenario is actually happening with Horizon Forbidden West. Unless I missed some trap you will get the PS5 version for $60 if you buy the PS4 version and use the free upgrade option. If you go directly for the PS5 version you have to pay $70.
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Yeah that also sucked, but you can "justify" that by pointing out the previous cross gens had wildly different architectures and game builds unlike now making the two titles very separate builds in many cases. Look at stuff like Horizon 2 on 360 vs One.
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supernova8
Banned
Few counter arguments would be:
(1) Mobile games are not a good comparison because the smartphone market is so fragmented that it wouldn't make any sense to make device-specific features, and therefore there is obviously no device-specific premium upgrade.
(2) PC games are in the same boat as mobile. There is no "target platform" as such and therefore no device-specific features to potentially charge for. I suppose they could charge for Nvidia RTX but yeah not going to happen.
(3) Xbox's entire strategy is to get everyone onto GamePass and/or xCloud.
(4) It's pretty clear that neither Nintendo nor Sony are interested in taking that route (at least for now).
Roll Fizzlebeef
Member
Yes i know, this is where this whole debate started, Sony backtracking on the upgrade charge because they said there wouldnt be one. But also them saying there will be one going forward. They are aware it undermines the pricing structure and its why they said their would be one for future games.
Personally i think ps4 and ps5 games should cost the same. If. they wanted tonraise the price of new games do it across the board and avoid this whole thing.. but i can see the logic behind having an upgrade fee since they did go with a 2 tier structure.
Roll Fizzlebeef
Member
Has anyone been keeping track of which cross gen titles that are coming out that do have free upgrades?
Pretty sure vanguard and bf2042 you need to get a bundle.
Pretty sure vanguard and bf2042 you need to get a bundle.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Will be interesting if Sony adjusts the PS5 version down to $60, or if they just hope PS5 gamers don't follow gaming news finding out about the PS4 free upgrade path. The benchmark has been set at $60 for the PS5 version. But every gamer who doesn't know about the free upgrade is +$10 to Sony. And any unknowing gamer buying the $80 combo edition to play on both systems is +$20.
If they were going to adjust it down to $60 they would have already. They're not.
Moonjt9
Member
“games”
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
They nickel and dime with online gaming fee and expensive controllers while not allowing you to use previous controllers for new games on new gen consoles.
Cyberpunkd
Member
One and done, article might make some sound points regarding customer practices in general but it completely ignores the fact extra work is required for a PS5 version. Sony either takes a hit or passes that cost to the customer. They decided to do the latter.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The bit that makes this article / OpEd piece sleazy in its own way is to completely discount the fact you do NOT have to repurchase those games as they still work on PS5 and most of them were enhanced for free (high resolution and 60 FPS unlocked framerate).
Not completely true. But I get what you mean.
Dream-Knife
Banned
If Sony and Nintendos customers let them take advantage of them and said fanboys defend it, who really cares? It's the same situation with simps and onlyfans. If someone wants to be exploited, let them go.
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Ps5 being backwards compatible isn't the point... Except that it being bc is evidence of how these cross gen games are 95% similar in code.
Gene listed that all the ways Sony has updated games for PS5. It's to point out the confusion and inconsistent treatment of Sony's own games when it comes to PS5 enhancements. Some get free updates, some are paid, some are locked behind directors cut dlc, DC can be different prices, and with Horizon there was a $20 fee with no upgrade path before the backpedal.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Totally.
It's early in the generation, so Sony is trying to figure out what upgrade strategy to stick to. They've already set on $70 PS5 games. But as you said, the upgrade path is all over the place. But you never know, maybe their plan the whole time is to adjust to whatever the market will pay hoping gamers dont care. Some games free, some $20, some $30 DLC.
The uproar has now lead Sony to cement $10 upgrades for future games.
It's good because now it's clear what the upgrade path will be, and for any gamer willing to $10 upgrades. But it's bad for any gamers hoping for free upgrades for cross gen games.
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Magic Carpet
Member
Yea it had something to do with the move to 64 bit. I had lots of games that did not make the transition.
bender
What time is it?
I'm still sour about iOS 11 obsoleting the majority of my Cave library.
I don't mind paid for upgrades on any platform. While I wish everything were free and really appreciate free upgrades, if some development effort is involved, I don't mind a nominal fee to reward that effort. Sony's approach has been balls though. Their inconsistencies were maddening. I do think most of that issue is going to go away just by the nature of there being fewer and fewer PS4 titles that have the likelihood of being upgraded and it sounds like they have a plan moving forward for new releases that are cross generation. They've certainly done themselves no favors with perception though. I'll also be hesitant of picking up late generation titles at this point. Cerny gave us a platform with BC and I expect that to be the norm for them moving forward.
I have no idea what Nintendo will do with the Switch successor nor do I have any faith. So little faith that I've started purchasing all of my favorite titles from them physically.
I don't mind paid for upgrades on any platform. While I wish everything were free and really appreciate free upgrades, if some development effort is involved, I don't mind a nominal fee to reward that effort. Sony's approach has been balls though. Their inconsistencies were maddening. I do think most of that issue is going to go away just by the nature of there being fewer and fewer PS4 titles that have the likelihood of being upgraded and it sounds like they have a plan moving forward for new releases that are cross generation. They've certainly done themselves no favors with perception though. I'll also be hesitant of picking up late generation titles at this point. Cerny gave us a platform with BC and I expect that to be the norm for them moving forward.
I have no idea what Nintendo will do with the Switch successor nor do I have any faith. So little faith that I've started purchasing all of my favorite titles from them physically.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
buying a game on console is now more complicated than PC now. You have to do research to see which games has upgrade path, and what type of upgrade path they are having
hybrid_birth
Gold Member
So is it a $10 upgrade fee because PS5 games cost more to make than PS4?
Is papa xbox just eating the cost and offering next gen games for $59?
The world will never know
Is papa xbox just eating the cost and offering next gen games for $59?
The world will never know
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
LMAO they ain’t gonna back down now. They are now establishing $70 as the new norm for PS5 game, just like how they eatablished online fee for playing console games.
Gameplaylover
Member
Just google smart delivery games.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Maybe.
If so, every studio making PC games must be eating more cost than even MS since they have to make games across low end PCs all the way up to the latest cpu and RTX rig that's beyond PS5/Series X.
bender
What time is it?
Sony made bank off of Xbox Live Gold.
Yselacrey00
Banned
There shouldn't be two tiers for games which only difference is a bump in resolution and some fps.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is, it is not the point the author wanted to make, but it is.
I see the two things as quite orthogonal really at best and trying to take a negative from the jaws of positive at worst sorry. I see correlation at best you see causation.
I get the confusion and it is certainly not ideal, but you are a journalist and want to make a point about clarity… start by not adding fuel to the fire yourself. The point about “on other platforms you do not have to repurchase games” is incorrect and misused.
Mobile as a comparison point is also quite moot when most games are not using the HW much until it becomes mainstream and you are effectively constantly paying for them.
Sony (and third parties) wanted to increase PS5 game prices and for reasons (I disagree with) they wanted to make cross generation games with multiple SKU’s and wanted the PS5 version to be more customised than a pure resolution patch… and they wanted people not to just get the cheaper PS4 version and update to the PS5 version for free… and they wanted good PR. It is a mess of their own making and they lack the universal distribution method to make all cross generation games a single expensive multi licensed SKU.
Yselacrey00
Banned
But PS5 updates are just resolution upgrades and FPS. Did they charge you extra when the PS4 pro came out?
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is the first thread I see on the topic, can you please expand on this issue
?Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I see you already played HFW and forgot the other enhancements to say MM like 60 FPS and Ray-tracing, DualSense haptics and dynamic triggers, and fast loading times or forget how those FPS and resolution only enhancements were actually free (see GoT, GoW, etc…).
PropellerEar
Member
PS4 versions of the game work just fine on PS5.
Dragon_Rocks
Member
Even with that shouldn't there be QA involved to test the game on each platform separately? Also what about added features which are only supported on PS5 like dualsense, help/hints etc. Some amount of effort/cost would go into this right?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
No Sony and Nintendo are busy ruling the industry.
Gameplaylover
Member
Ano
Sure, but why are many 3rd party developers supporting Adaptive Triggers + Haptic Feedback for free although they have to pay Sony a 30% cut? Extra work at no extra cost is called good customer service. Sony doesn't have that 30% but still charges for some extra work.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Touché… Let’s see if it is anything more than Chinese or Taiwanese = CCP shouts at the wind
. Cold War 2.0.
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