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Washington Post: Sony and Nintendo are not in-step with how the rest of the software industry works

MHubert

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In what way does these require a $10 upgrade when they already exist?

For your typical remastered re-release - like the Skyrim Special Edition, The Last of Us Remastered, Metro Redux, Homeworld Remastered, and so on - additional work was added to the game that did not exist when the game was originally made. That's why there's a price tag. When Spider-man Mile Morales was released... it had everything in it already. They didn't revisit the game and add in things that didn't exist - the "enhancements" you're speaking of aren't enhancements at all, they're the stock-standard features that were budgeted and paid for by the development that goes into the sticker price PlayStation gamers already paid when they bought the game. In what world should anyone pay more for features that already exist in the product they already paid for? Madness.


Except that they're not? Every announced game available from Microsoft for the Xbox Series X is priced AUD$100.00 (USD$60.00) or less. Every first party game announced by Sony for the PS5 is AUD$125.00 (USD$70.00). Even the cross-gen ones. Halo Infinite? AUD$100.00. Forza Horizon 5? AUD$100.00. Psychonauts 2 (On PS4 or Xbox)? AUD$100.00. As of today, I believe the only publisher besides Sony to commit to a complete transition to USD$70.00 pricing is Activision - although I have missed some press releases, so that may no longer be accurate. To date, everyone else has been doing it on a game-by-game basis to test the waters.
What do you mean by already exist? It didn't exist when they allocated the budget before production.
 

ZywyPL

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And for them you can buy the PS5 version if available....

Again - for additional cost just to get better performance... This got a free pass last gen when the consoles moved from PowerPC to x86 and there was clearly additional work involved into porting the games, but now there's no excuse to charge extra, it doesn't take more than just a few lines of code (if even that) to change the resolution and framerate when the game's running on PS5.
 
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martino

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You are right it is mainstream amongst core gamers, But everybody I know that has kids buys them a switch and they are not willing to educate themselves(understandably) on PC gaming.
People you are describing here around me are now in heavy surveillance mode on what steam deck will be.
 

Lunarorbit

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At least with Sony games you can wait a month or two and the extra $10 will be gone due to a discount. Plus by the time gow and other 1st party games come out more people will have a ps5 anyway. Not a huge fan of spanning multiple generations with these games too begin with but oh well.

Nintendo on the other hand.... They just don't give a shit
 

LimanimaPT

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I don't really get how should this work. PS4 games priced with the same value as PS5 games?
If users wouldn´t pay for an upgrade from PS4 to PS5, then everybody would get the cheaper PS4 game and upgrade it to the PS5.
 

martino

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a great subject to post my joke analogy again
i'm actually imagining how this kind of move would translate on pc...that would be something like :
  • 30$ for low settings edition
  • 50$ for medium settings edition
  • 70$ for high settings edition
  • 100$ for ultra settings edition
  • 110$ DX12U edition
  • 150$ Nvidia RTX IO DLSS edition
 

MrTentakel

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Why doesn't the insane price hike of producing AAA titles nowadays justify it? The unsustainability of making bigger and bigger games have been a serious talking point/issue for years now. I'm surprised that you are supposed to be a software engineer with experience in making games while arguing the way you do - maybe you are one of those heroes who like to work for free or having your wages subsidized.

Look at the stock prices of the game companies.

TakeTwo 5yrs +245%
Activision Blizzard 5yrs +77%
Ubisoft 5yrs +50%

They seem fine. They charge more because they want to and as long as people are willing to pay 20-30% more to have the game 2-3 month earlier, they will succeed.
(I just bought Avengers PS4 for 12,99 incl sales tax and delivery, when was this released?)
 
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reksveks

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Why doesn't the insane price hike of producing AAA titles nowadays justify it? The unsustainability of making bigger and bigger games have been a serious talking point/issue for years now. I'm surprised that you are supposed to be a software engineer with experience in making games while arguing the way you do - maybe you are one of those heroes who like to work for free or having your wages subsidized.
I would be interested to see the profit margin of the bigger game devs/platform holders here.
 

KingT731

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Most disgusting thing of this generation is Nintendo not allowing us to keep our eshop games that we’ve purchased on Wii and paid to transfer to Wii U. EU should be after them for that seeing as how they stick their beak in everything else.
Yet nobody is saying a thing. Same thing when Nintendo put out a Emulator/ROM 3-Pack and sold it for full price...not a peep.
 

martino

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BUT THINK ABOUT THE DEVS!!!
yep people are becoming such brand whores that platform holder can get away with everything and console business model consumer advantages for the trade of a closed environment are slowly becoming nothing.
this kind of patch , especially from platform holders, should be a way to win people loyalty not milk them even more.
 
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elliot5

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Why doesn't the insane price hike of producing AAA titles nowadays justify it? The unsustainability of making bigger and bigger games have been a serious talking point/issue for years now. I'm surprised that you are supposed to be a software engineer with experience in making games while arguing the way you do - maybe you are one of those heroes who like to work for free or having your wages subsidized.
I've said games can be justified to cost $70. If they're PS5 only. Why does a AAA first party developed for the last gen that is sold at $60 suddenly cost $70 on the next gen? I'm arguing it from a consumer viewpoint and with my experience informing that.

An engineer and artist etc are making these upgrades during a production schedule already accounting for the PS5. To segregate their cost to the consumer is silly. It's not about working for free. Look at Little Nightmares 2. That update was outsourced (aka more expensive) and after the fact (aka not accounted for in the core production) but was free because by offering that product you are thinking you will get more sales on the new platform. No need to charge extra. Plus it gives you a marketing cycle
 

arvfab

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Again - for additional cost just to get better performance... This got a free pass last gen when the consoles moved from PowerPC to x86 and there was clearly additional work involved into porting the games, but now there's no excuse to charge extra, it doesn't take more than just a few lines of code (if even that) to change the resolution and framerate when the game's running on PS5.

You should apply at any of the devs, you seem to know the "few line of codes" better than them...
Do this few lines of code also include DualSense functionalities, improved loading times, reduced size, cards integration, better textures, RT integration?
 

KungFucius

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Washington Post should not be posted as though it's a typical news source at this point, it is the same as posting a news article from Amazon.com and saying it's just as legitimate, people absolutely need to understand this.
That is a really ignorant way of looking at this. Companies do not behave in real life like the simplistic comic book view you have of them. While they certainly wouldn't be a good place to find opinions about things that relate to Amazon's business, why would a writer even be thinking about Jeff Bezos when putting down an opinion piece about how Sony and Nintendo behave in ways that are not consumer friendly? Suggesting an influence at this level is delusional.
 

MHubert

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I would be interested to see the profit margin of the bigger game devs/platform holders here.
Look at the stock prices of the game companies.

TakeTwo 5yrs +245%
Activision Blizzard 5yrs +77%
Ubisoft 5yrs +50%

They seem fine. They charge more because they want to and as long as people are willing to pay 20-30% more to have the game 2-3 month earlier, they will succeed.
(I just bought Avengers PS4 for 12,99 incl sales tax and delivery, when was this released?)
They are doing great, and they are also some of the biggest juggernaut publishers in the industry - but stock prices doesn't indicate whether or not making AAA games is a sustainable business. Remember, these companies primarily make money on GAAS.

Avengers bombed hard - that's why you are finding it in the bargain bin.
 

Tomeru

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In the case of HFW - graphics aside, on ps5 it does a little more than what it does on ps4 no? Like the water section and something else (so far)? Is the tech used between both versions 100% the same? Or is one using more than the other?

So an arguement could be said that there is something to pay for there. If, as we get along further into this gen, and the differences between xgen titles is just some minor difference then yeah, it is bullshit.

We just need to wait and see.
 

Panajev2001a

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I've already explained that this is not true. Repeat yourself all you like, you're just more wrong. The PS4 version was not developed and released separately to the PS5 version, constituting a schism in the available feature set. The PS4 version cannot enable features its platform doesn't support, but the feature is developed, ready, and paid for none-the-less. Ray Tracing in PC doesn't cost extra. Ambient occlusion doesn't cost extra. So, either you know nothing about application development, version control, platform recompilation, or modern game development in general - in which case, why are you talking about something you clearly don't understand? - or, you're being deliberately dense for the purposes of a poor man's attempt at justifying unjustifiable price gouging by your favourite plastic box.

There is no justifying $10.00 "next gen upgrades". Period.
Fine, I think you are wrong and we will agree to disagree. You may think there is no value or you do not want to pay, but you are oversimplifying: other people in other cases are not charging you, but there is a cost they are swallowing. Sony, for better or worse, is not. Period.
 

Yselacrey00

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I see you already played HFW and forgot the other enhancements to say MM like 60 FPS and Ray-tracing, DualSense haptics and dynamic triggers, and fast loading times or forget how those FPS and resolution only enhancements were actually free (see GoT, GoW, etc…).
Lol it's the same. Those are just minimal updates that are possible with the new hardware. I asked you, did you pay extra for the upgrades when the PS4 Pro came out or not? What about when Xbox one x came out?
 

Shmunter

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It's bad enough there's a $10 upgrade fee for some games. And as you said, nobody pinched people for $10 when the PS4 Pro and One X versions had better res, frame rate and AF improvements. It were free updates for all.

But Sony has taken it beyond that.

Ghost of Tsushima requires the $30 Director Cut DLC to go from PS4 to PS5, and then of course they tried (and failed) the Horizon FW tactic of forcing gamers to either buy both PS4/PS5 copies, or frontload them with an $80 combo edition which is +$20 over the base game.

As crazy as it sounds, Jim's "future games will be $10 upgrades" is cheaper than their recent attempts.
It may be $10, as long as you own the Directors Cut edition, which will be $20 to upgrade from the base edition.
 

RaySoft

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I don't think you know what you're talking about. Both the PS4 and PS5 are x86 based consoles running on AMD CPUs and GPUs. They're still written in the same language and for the same core architecture. One is just much more powerful than the other.
You misunderstood him. What he meant is that the PS5 executable is compiled with a completly different SDK targeting completely differnt hardware. PS5 supports what the newspaper guy was talking about btw. If I have a PS4 game it also works for free on my PS5, but it's still a PS4 game. (the iPhone analogy)

PS5 is a different platform than PS4. Xbox has adopted the same caracteristics from the PC platform, where the platform stays the same but the specs can differ.
And as others have said already, the price difference between last-gen and current-gen. This whole "confusion" will blow over as soon as the PS4's gamemarket dries up.
 
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Snake29

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I'm just glad Smart Delivery went from a joke to the best way to get games on console. Console gaming is supposed to just work and that is exactly what the system does.

Third parties can ignore it and they mostly do ignore it in some ways. Only assurance you have is from Xbox itself.
 
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MHubert

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I've said games can be justified to cost $70. If they're PS5 only.
I know this is being cheeky, but you can find no retail 70$ game that runs on a PS4.
Why does a AAA first party developed for the last gen that is sold at $60 suddenly cost $70 on the next gen?
Because:
An engineer and artist etc are making these upgrades during a production schedule already accounting for the PS5.
------------
To segregate their cost to the consumer is silly.
This might litteraly be one of the least silly things in the world.

Whether or not these upgrades cost them 1 - 1.000 - 10.000 or a million dollars is totally besides the point; The point being that it costs more and you paying 60$ for AAA titles without MTX and GAAS was too cheap to begin with - and has been for a long time. If we want to keep seeing traditional games balooning in size and scope then we have to cough up those extra 10 bucks and what's happening now is just a transition that at some point has to happen. It makes a lot of sense to do it at the beginning of a new generation.

Look at Little Nightmares 2. That update was outsourced (aka more expensive) and after the fact (aka not accounted for in the core production) but was free because by offering that product you are thinking you will get more sales on the new platform. No need to charge extra. Plus it gives you a marketing cycle
That's nice, but you can bet your hat off that they chose that solution because it was economically best for them.
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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Remember when Smart Delivery was brushed off as nothing? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

It’s been strange to me since the generation began that MS is so forward thinking with their legacy software and meanwhile Sony, with a much much much deeper portfolio of historic titles, is so backwards thinking. And then even with their modern business model, it’s designed to squeeze as much money from us as possible. Just one gen removed from “#4theplayers”
 

FritzJ92

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It is, it is not the point the author wanted to make, but it is.


I see the two things as quite orthogonal really at best and trying to take a negative from the jaws of positive at worst sorry. I see correlation at best you see causation.



I get the confusion and it is certainly not ideal, but you are a journalist and want to make a point about clarity… start by not adding fuel to the fire yourself. The point about “on other platforms you do not have to repurchase games” is incorrect and misused.
Mobile as a comparison point is also quite moot when most games are not using the HW much until it becomes mainstream and you are effectively constantly paying for them.

Sony (and third parties) wanted to increase PS5 game prices and for reasons (I disagree with) they wanted to make cross generation games with multiple SKU’s and wanted the PS5 version to be more customised than a pure resolution patch… and they wanted people not to just get the cheaper PS4 version and update to the PS5 version for free… and they wanted good PR. It is a mess of their own making and they lack the universal distribution method to make all cross generation games a single expensive multi licensed SKU.
This is ridiculous. Microsoft game updates aren’t just FPS and res boost but are free. Stop looking for a justification Sony game price increase is purely greed.
High quality games existed and still does at 59.99
The hame industry isn’t shrinking so there is no need to offset lost revenue by increasing prices
Sony has had record profits before the price increase
There is literally no real reason to raise the price except greed.
by the way take two said their game needed a price increase because of quality and have you seen the trash 2K22 is?
 

Foorbits

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The article is spot on... the real question is does it matter? Nintendo and Sony are the industry leaders and, so far, seem unaffected.
 

Papacheeks

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The article is spot on... the real question is does it matter? Nintendo and Sony are the industry leaders and, so far, seem unaffected.

I think if enough people complain, and make a stink we could see Sony all together reverse $70 games. But I believe the mess they created was purely a cross-gen title issue. Honestly if people wait like a month or so you can find games on sale. Labor day weekend I saw ratchet for PS5 for $50. Thats not bad considering it came out in June.
 
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Foorbits

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I think if enough people complain, and make a stink we could see Sony all together reverse $70 games. But I believe the mess they created was purely a cross-gen title issue. Honestly if people wait like a month or so you can find games on sale. Labor day weekend I saw ratchet for PS5 for $50. Thats not bad considering it came out in June.
Sony's problem is their main competition isn't following them down this path. $70 games would be bad enough if everyone was participating. But here you have Sony uncharging for ports and going $70 per game for even director's cut editions while you have MS shoveling everything they got in a monthly sub... the contrast is too big to ignore. Social and gaming media are going to have a continued field day with Sony's $70 games while MS tosses games like Fable, Starfield, Halo, etc into Game Pass. While I don't think Sony needs to go down the Game Pass route to compete, they could surely go easier on the wallets of their fans. It feels like Sony is simply "fuck'em they'll pay whatever we ask" and right now they are right.
 
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FritzJ92

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I think if enough people complain, and make a stink we could see Sony all together reverse $70 games. But I believe the mess they created was purely a cross-gen title issue. Honestly if people wait like a month or so you can find games on sale. Labor day weekend I saw ratchet for PS5 for $50. Thats not bad considering it came out in June.
No don’t get your hopes up the $70 price tag isn’t going anywhere. Even if 50% of day one buyers decide that $70 is too expensive. The other 50% is going to still buy at $70 and the remaining %50 will buy when the games goes down to 60. Sony still makes an increased profit.
 

MrTentakel

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There is literally no real reason to raise the price except greed.
100% agreed!
But what are you gonna do about it?
Complaining and buying at full price, anyway? This will teach them ;)

I don`t care if a new game is 70€ (84US$ inkl. sales tax) or 80€ (96US$ incl sales tax) or 120€ supadupacollectionbox (144US$ incl. sales tax)-> it`s just different shades of absurd.
I wait for the sweet 30€ price point, which is usally reached 6 month after release, when games are fully patched and playable.
As long as people YOLO and preorder every shite, prices will raise.
 

Papacheeks

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Sony's problem is their main competition isn't following them down this path. $70 games would be bad enough if everyone was participating. But here you have Sony uncharging for ports and going $70 per game for even director's cut editions while you have MS shoveling everything they got in a monthly sub... the contrast is too big to ignore. Social and gaming media are going to have a continued field day with Sony's $70 games while MS tosses games like Fable, Starfield, Halo, etc into Game Pass. While I don't think Sony needs to go down the Game Pass route to compete, they could surely go easier on the wallets of their fans. It feels like Sony is simply "fuck'em they'll pay whatever we ask" and right now they are right.

After recently getting a deal on PS NOW and signing up for a year I understand why Sony would not want to put their 150 Million dollar budget games on a service. Their games are quality, so its going to be up to the audience to decide if its worth $70 on launch or they wait for a sale?

The only thing Microsoft has been able to show is that people see value in gamepass. Until they show a breakdown of how they gauge success's on gamepass with game interactivity or game time played or metrics they use right now all we have is subscriber numbers. ANd they have not updated in a while, so either they are waiting to hit a specific number or they have plateaued.


So until games start not charting every month when there is stock in consoles I don't see Sony changing much on what they value of their games. Just like Nintendo values their first party as first in class just like Sony.
 
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ZywyPL

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Do this few lines of code also include DualSense functionalities, improved loading times, reduced size, cards integration, better textures, RT integration?

Well now you make things even worse, because that's exactly what Sony promises you with the new console, and turns out you have to pay for it, on a game by game basis. Literally every few months they release new PS5 adds highlighting the SSD, haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, 3D audio, 4K, 60-120FPS etc., and turns out it's not there, unless you pay extra. And like I said, we have 3rd party devs updating their games just like that, for free, who are putting Sony into shame.


It’s been strange to me since the generation began that MS is so forward thinking with their legacy software and meanwhile Sony, with a much much much deeper portfolio of historic titles, is so backwards thinking. And then even with their modern business model, it’s designed to squeeze as much money from us as possible. Just one gen removed from “#4theplayers”

MS laid the foundations back in 2013 with XB1. It all looked like a mess and terrible solution back then I won't lie, but it didn't took long until X1X arrived and turned out it was actually a brilliant, forward thinking concept.
 
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Foorbits

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After recently getting a deal on PS NOW and signing up for a year I understand why Sony would not want to put their 150 Million dollar budget games on a service. Their games are quality, so its going to be up to the audience to decide if its worth $70 on launch or they wait for a sale?

The only thing Microsoft has been able to show is that people see value in gamepass. Until they show a breakdown of how they gauge success's on gamepass with game interactivity or game time played or metrics they use right now all we have is subscriber numbers. ANd they have not updated in a while, so either they are waiting to hit a specific number or they have plateaued.
Game Pass numbers are about to explode with Forza and Halo coming so they are most likely waiting for that spike.

Hard disagree on the reasoning for Sony's games not being on a subscription service. You speak of $150 million budget games but so far most of the games they are charging $70 for are well, well below that. Returnal? R&C? PS4 re-releases? For a game like God of War 2 or Last of Us 3, Sony could always go the Disney+ route and charge a premium for the first few months of launch then toss it on the service.
 
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Brofist

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Honestly it's up to Sony and Nintendo to price things how they want. Maybe eventually people won't put up with the greed, but until then if it works they'll continue.
 

Duchess

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I'm still very surprised that Ratchet and Clank, Returnal, and Demon's Souls are still almost £60 each here in the UK (physical copies).

They've each been out a while, so I would've expected them to have fallen to below £50 by now. Sony must still be selling them to the retailers at high prices, without discounting.
 

FritzJ92

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Game Pass numbers are about to explode with Forza and Halo coming so they are most likely waiting for that spike.

Hard disagree on the reasoning for Sony's games not being on a subscription service. You speak of $150 million budget games but so far most of the games they are charging $70 for are well, well below that. Returnal? R&C? PS4 re-releases? For a game like God of War 2 or Last of Us 3, Sony could always go the Disney+ route and charge a premium for the first few months of launch then toss it on the service.
Yeah I’m so tired of people using game budget as a reason Sony couldn’t offer a subscription service. High quality, high budget games launch on Gamepass.
the traditional methods is removed from the equation either.
 

Papacheeks

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Game Pass numbers are about to explode with Forza and Halo coming so they are most likely waiting for that spike.

Hard disagree on the reasoning for Sony's games not being on a subscription service. You speak of $150 million budget games but so far most of the games they are charging $70 for are well, well below that. Returnal? R&C? PS4 re-releases? For a game like God of War 2 or Last of Us 3, Sony could always go the Disney+ route and charge a premium for the first few months of launch then toss it on the service.

Ratchet is def a 80 Million project when you think about studio size, promotion. Layden knew what a lot of the budgets were and I can tell you they are the ladder of being higher than people think. Games like returnal are not super expensive because of studio size, and overall scope, on top of how the game is designed. There is only really one actress and hardly any cutscenes. Everything is done in game, only a couple pre-rendered clips are in that game. SO it was probably not super expensive to make.

But GOT, Last of us part 2, God of war, Days gone are all 80 Million+. Last of us part 2 I believe was 150+ Million to make.
 

Flutta

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No. Just like when you upgrade from a 2080 to a 3080 you don't have to pay $10 more to get raytracing in Doom Eternal.

So upgrading from PS4 to PS5 is around 399$ for the cheapest SKU.
Upgrading your GPU in this case to 3080 is around 1200$? Not sure about the prices in the US but in other countries that card is even more expensive. On top of that you prob need to upgrade other parts in your PC aswell to avoid bottlenecks.
Compare that to 10$ extra for raytracing....
I got a gaming PC so i know that being part of the PC master race cult is not so cheap or simply explained like in your post.
Also if 10$ is to much for you, you can always wait for a price cut.
 
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Foorbits

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Yeah I’m so tired of people using game budget as a reason Sony couldn’t offer a subscription service. High quality, high budget games launch on Gamepass.
the traditional methods is removed from the equation either.
The narrative will change once the MS exclusives start coming out at a steady pace.
 

DarkMage619

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Third parties can ignore it and they mostly do ignore it in some ways. Only assurance you have is from Xbox itself.
The article was about platform holders. Third parties that don't allow free upgrades on Xbox still have saves work across generations. That isn't always guaranteed to work on PS5.
 

arvfab

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Literally every few months they release new PS5 adds highlighting the SSD, haptic feedback, adaptive triggers, 3D audio, 4K, 60-120FPS etc., and turns out it's not there, unless you pay extra.

But they are there, if I have the PS5 version of the game and I don't have to pay more to have them.

And like I said, we have 3rd party devs updating their games just like that, for free, who are putting Sony into shame.

So are you crying because the changes are easy and therefore should be free or because they are not easy, but others are not charging for it?

Is it about the upgrade fees or "next-gen" price hike, that you are so upset?

Have you shared your concerns directly with Sony via their social channels/e-mail/personal mail to Jimbo?
 
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They are doing great, and they are also some of the biggest juggernaut publishers in the industry - but stock prices doesn't indicate whether or not making AAA games is a sustainable business. Remember, these companies primarily make money on GAAS.

Avengers bombed hard - that's why you are finding it in the bargain bin.
Profits at the publishers are at record highs too. So they are going hand in hand with the stock price, but I totally get what youre saying. Sometimes they dont like some biotech company with nothing but some phase 2 drug is worth billions though their sales are $0 and they are losing $100 million per year.

But for anyone trying to play the "higher tech = higher costs justification", then as you said what about GAAS mtx?

They are going to justify a game is worth $70 (or a $10 upgrade), and also justify a weapon skin is worth $5?
 

ZywyPL

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But they are there, if I have the PS5 version of the game and I don't have to pay more to have them.



So are you crying because the changes are easy and therefore should be free or because they are not easy, but others are not charging for it?

Is it about the upgrade fees or "next-gen" price hike, that you are so upset?

Have you shared your concerns directly with Sony via their social channels/e-mail/personal mail to Jimbo?


Listen, you'll do you, if you feel sad for the devs, that they need every penny and the games are so good they should be at least 100$, you can always walk out of the store with 2, 3 even 4 copies of the same game, but not every shares your enthusiasm. Just be sure not to shit on GAAS, DLC and MTX, because remember - the devs need money for their hard work!
 

MrTentakel

Member
Dec 15, 2020
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I'm still very surprised that Ratchet and Clank, Returnal, and Demon's Souls are still almost £60 each here in the UK (physical copies).

They've each been out a while, so I would've expected them to have fallen to below £50 by now. Sony must still be selling them to the retailers at high prices, without discounting.
Ebay.co.uk lists:
7 offers for Ratchet & Clank -> new and sealed 40UKP incl. shipping
3 offers Returnal > new and sealed 50UKP incl. shipping
9 offers for Demon Souls -> new and sealed 44UKP or less incl. shipping

You are welcome
 
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sublimit

Banned
Aug 28, 2009
21,702
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In other words the washington post knows better than Sony and Nintendo on how to succesfully run a company lol🤣🤣
 
Jan 29, 2019
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Developing shippable titles on PC and mobile is way more challenging than a single hardware configuration (ps5, etc).. what even
Games used to ship in working condition when PCs ran under DOS, needed special "drivers" for different audio/video cards and were developed by groups of kids that just moved their offices put of their parent's garage.

Nintendo and Sony ship games that work day one too.

Software as a service should not be an excuse for a game to ship before it works (unless it's branded as beta or something, Steam has a service for those who can't wait).
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
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They are doing great, and they are also some of the biggest juggernaut publishers in the industry - but stock prices doesn't indicate whether or not making AAA games is a sustainable business. Remember, these companies primarily make money on GAAS.

Kinda why I wanted profit margin. I also don't know if we should or shouldn't save the profit for each product/category. It's kinda hard if some companies are using the profits from store revenue or mtx to fund more risky games like the ea indies program or Microsoft/Sony could do.
 

CeeJay

Member
Mar 9, 2014
1,129
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So upgrading from PS4 to PS5 is around 399$ for the cheapest SKU.
Upgrading your GPU in this case to 3080 is around 1200$? Not sure about the prices in the US but in other countries that card is even more expensive. On top of that you prob need to upgrade other parts in your PC aswell to avoid bottlenecks.
Compare that to 10$ extra for raytracing....
I got a gaming PC so i know that being part of the PC master race cult is not so cheap or simply explained like in your post.
Also if 10$ is to much for you, you can always wait for a price cut.
How is the cost of hardware upgrades in any way relatable to the cost of the software upgrades?

ID don't see any of the profit on that upgraded GPU yet you see the benefit in Doom Eternal when you do.

The point is that if you do upgrade your PC then you get the benefits in the scalable software automatically.

Why does PS5 have to be any different? Develop a game targeting PS5 specs, in the deployment process downgrade res, framerate and turn off RT in the ini file for PS4. This is exactly how Xbox smart delivery works, how PC works and it should be how Playstation works as well.

At best the customer is passed on the extra cost for the inflexible development, certification and deployment situation on Playstation, at worst they are just plain getting ripped off.