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[Leyasu]

• IO Interactive
• Avalanche
• Crytek
• Netherrealms
• Rocksteady

Now that's something for acquisition!

No way.. lol

Also, are Crytek worth picking up?

 

[samoilaaa]

Are you always this pessimistic?

Prediction: Gamers can play 1 new AAA game a month plus many more AA games for just $15 a month.
GP subs explode, profits explode, gamers everywhere get a Great deal, Sony matches with their own GP type service and even more gamers get a Great deal.
Everybody wins in my prediction...

i know right ? gamepass is already making alot of money with 20 million subscribers and is still growing , once the heavy hitters come like elder scrolls , avowed , fable , halo , starfield gamepass will grow alot

 

[Three]

Are you always this pessimistic?

Prediction: Gamers can play 1 new AAA game a month plus many more AA games for just $15 a month.
GP subs explode, profits explode, gamers everywhere get a Great deal, Sony matches with their own GP type service and even more gamers get a Great deal.
Everybody wins in my prediction...

GaaS isn't about gamepass. His prediction is actually very accurate to me. GaaS is about maintaining engagement on a game by game bases, not just the subscription. Tell me what good is a big budget AAA release every month on a $15 sub if it doesn't retain players?

If it doesn’t aim to retain players by being GaaS and they are playing a new AAA game every month how is $15 the cost of 1 new AAA game every month going to work out?

Think mobile. You have players playing the same game with possible single game subs too.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You do realize that creating one AAA game per month would send operating budgets through the roof right? You're sure GamePass could sustain that?

I don't. And I don't think MS does either.

1 AAA game a month would need around 50ish AAA studios. That's 20k people or so. If we apply the 10k dollars per employee rule, that's 200 million dollars a month of upkeep cost. With the way things are going, that might actually be easy to pay for MS. Netflix spends way more on their content, the last figure I heard was 1.4 billion (yes billion) per month.

Just a fun math example, I'm not actually saying it's gonna happen. Just that it's not as unrealistic as people might think.

 

[kuncol02]

1 AAA game a month would need around 50ish AAA studios. That's 20k people or so. If we apply the 10k dollars per employee rule, that's 200 million dollars a month of upkeep cost. With the way things are going, that might actually be easy to pay for MS. Netflix spends way more on their content, the last figure I heard was 1.4 billion (yes billion) per month.

Just a fun math example, I'm not actually saying it's gonna happen. Just that it's not as unrealistic as people might think.

It would be even less. AAA game budget is usually somewhere between 50-200mil. They basically have to pay one game production cost every month, so on average it should be closer to 100mil.

 

[Roberts]

When did they neuter Rare?
Rare makes what ever game they want and they have been Xbox' most creative studio.
How exactly did MS neuter them?

Yup, I played Sea of Thieves with a friend yesterday and got reminded why I keep coming back to it after all these years: it is bursting with originality and creativity. There is nothing quite like it on the market. Anyone who says MS neutered Rare, most likely hasn’t played SoT.

 

[Fredrik]

It would be even less. AAA game budget is usually somewhere between 50-200mil. They basically have to pay one game production cost every month, so on average it should be closer to 100mil.

23 million subscribers paying $15/month is $345 million/month, and the sub count will increase. The real problem is getting gamers to accept a $15/month subscription. I really like GP and I’m not there yet. I prepaid to get it to $5/month. More games would certainly help though.

 

[kuncol02]

23 million subscribers paying $15/month is $345 million/month, and the sub count will increase. The real problem is getting gamers to accept a $15/month subscription. I really like GP and I’m not there yet. I prepaid to get it to $5/month. More games would certainly help though.

If alternative is to pay Sony 80eur for 10h games?

 

[GHG]

1 AAA game a month would need around 50ish AAA studios. That's 20k people or so. If we apply the 10k dollars per employee rule, that's 200 million dollars a month of upkeep cost. With the way things are going, that might actually be easy to pay for MS. Netflix spends way more on their content, the last figure I heard was 1.4 billion (yes billion) per month.

Just a fun math example, I'm not actually saying it's gonna happen. Just that it's not as unrealistic as people might think.

Netflix have had a huge cash burn problem for the last decade as a result of this.

AT&T just did a deal to hand over responsibility of Warner Media to Discovery because they realised how much of an expensive undertaking building a streaming focused media company is and they didn't want that burden.

You're not accounting for the amount of outlay required to also sustain a steady stream of 3rd party content. Also salary is not the only cost involved in running a business, especially not a software/media one.

People expecting a AAA game a month from Microsoft studios any time soon are delusional. They've literally just a said the target is 1 game a quarter for the service which would give their studios 2-3 years to make each game. The number of studios they have would likely need to quadruple in order for them to be able to get 1 AAA game out a month on a consistent basis and the outlay (and operating cost) of doing something like that would make the road to profitability for the service even more difficult.

The Xbox division has pivoted in recent years because it was coming under increasing pressure from investors due to the margins and profitability being so poor compared to the rest of Microsoft as a whole. The focus on Xbox being a SaaS division rather than a hardware one was supposed to fix that, not make the situation even worse.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to eventually get to 50-100 studios dependant on how successful gamepass is over a period of time but for that to be realistic the number of subscribers would need to quadruple from where it is today (or a price increase for the service).

 

[LordBlodgett]

Netflix have had a huge cash burn problem for the last decade as a result of this.

AT&T just did a deal to hand over responsibility of Warner Media to Discovery because they realised how much of an expensive undertaking building a streaming focused media company is and they didn't want that burden.

You're not accounting for the amount of outlay required to also sustain a steady stream of 3rd party content. Also salary is not the only cost involved in running a business, especially not a software/media one.

People expecting a AAA game a month from Microsoft studios any time soon are delusional. They've literally just a said the target is 1 game a quarter for the service which would give their studios 2-3 years to make each game. The number of studios they have would likely need to quadruple in order for them to be able to get 1 AAA game out a month on a consistent basis and the outlay (and operating cost) of doing something like that would make the road to profitability for the service even more difficult.

The Xbox division has pivoted in recent years because it was coming under increasing pressure from investors due to the margins and profitability being so poor compared to the rest of Microsoft as a whole. The focus on Xbox being a SaaS division rather than a hardware one was supposed to fix that, not make the situation even worse.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to eventually get to 50-100 studios dependant on how successful gamepass is over a period of time but for that to be realistic the number of subscribers would need to quadruple from where it is today (or a price increase for the service).

Cash Burn is only a problem if you can't get the numbers of subscribers you need. Netflix just made $3 billion profit in 2020, and this is with servicing all of its debt. Their debt to equity ratio has also improved each of the last two years. Of course this is only possible because they just keep growing. I do think that Microsoft is looking at long term potential and envisioning 50-100 million subscribers. Whether that happens or not is still to be seen, but over the last two years their growth has started to ramp up in a way where it looks like they could reach their goals. I could see a future where they end 2022 with 35-40 million subscribers pretty easily, but they aren't going to get there without a very steady diet of must have games.....

 

[Fredrik]

If alternative is to pay Sony 80eur for 10h games?

I’m definitely not saying that’s better, it’s just that $15/month is a lot in the long run, $180/year, $1260/generation (7y). It all adds up.

 

[oldergamer]

So WB is 12 studios in total. In april there was a rumor they had another bethesda sized purchase happening and ms was deep in talks with WB parent company before they put the sale on hold and decided not to sell.

Suddenly harry potter, the new batman game, suicide squad have gone missing from e3.

It could be they split them up and sold 5 of those studios along with the DC games license.

I would love if batman was exclusive to xbox as a counter for sony having Spiderman. Its the only super hero game that can compete.

 

[GHG]

Cash Burn is only a problem if you can't get the numbers of subscribers you need. Netflix just made $3 billion profit in 2020, and this is with servicing all of its debt. Their debt to equity ratio has also improved each of the last two years. Of course this is only possible because they just keep growing. I do think that Microsoft is looking at long term potential and envisioning 50-100 million subscribers. Whether that happens or not is still to be seen, but over the last two years their growth has started to ramp up in a way where it looks like they could reach their goals. I could see a future where they end 2022 with 35-40 million subscribers pretty easily, but they aren't going to get there without a very steady diet of must have games.....

It took Netflix the best part of a decade to get where they are today and they are only now becoming profitable just as their subscription growth rate is flatlining.

If they continue to behave how they have in the last decade in terms of content acquision and studio growth then they will be in trouble again within the next couple of years.

Transitioning from being a company or division that is reliant on cash burn to becoming profitable is a delicate process that requires a lot of careful planning. When the number of subscribers you have is growing quickly at the start it's easy to get carried away but it's important to realise the rate of growth does not always go up at a consistent rate. At some point the YoY subscriber growth rate starts to taper off so the focus becomes more on extracting more money from the customers you already have - usually the first sign of this from the consumer side is a price increase.

I highly doubt Microsoft want the Xbox division pulling in a potential net loss for the next decade so they will most likely grow the number of studios they have in line with their gamepass subscriber growth rate rather than in anticipation of. The safest way for them to play this is to have a steady stream of high quality 3rd party content to pad out the service as they grow, rather than aquire a ton of companies too quickly that the service might not be able to sustain in the future.

 

[oldergamer]

Oh shiiiitttt this could be true! https://www.gamesradar.com/warner-bros-games-fate-is-unknown-after-discoverywarnermedia-merger/

Strange the article didn't mention MS as they were one of the final companies doing due diligence on the possible purchase last year

 

[oldergamer]

My bet they purchased:

Rocksteady
Wb montreal
Monlith
Avalanche
Netherealem

And DC + harry potter license rights

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Lets hope they were indie studios ready for bankruptcy.

 

[MrLove]

More average studios? Nobody will miss them. As long as Microsoft doesn't buy studios like From Software (japanse are to patriotic, they cant). And Sony own part of From Software

 

[oldergamer]

These arent average if its WB studios. They have 5 AAA studios with a good track record.

I would rather those studios then a from software any day of the week.

 

[Papacheeks]

That can't be true aren't both of those teams under the WB umbrella?
Wasn't WB games division rumoredly on sale some time ago but later changed their plans?
It's true that we didn't see the Bethesda deal coming but WTF

They are trying to sell the whole thing. If they can't sell the whole thing then I can see them doing piece meal deals for specific studios that would fetch a heavty price. Netherrealm is probably worth a good amount as is Rocksteady.

No way.. lol

Also, are Crytek worth picking up?

For the engine tech yes. I would love for 343 to drop their shit engine and use crytek.

 

[Fredrik]

These arent average if its WB studios. They have 5 AAA studios with a good track record.

I would rather those studios then a from software any day of the week.

I really can’t see this happening. People are rolling a snowball made from hopes and dreams here. In reality it’s as likely that Rocksteady and NetherRealm will end up at Sony or Amazon.

 

[oldergamer]

I really can’t see this happening. People are rolling a snowball made from hopes and dreams here. In reality it’s as likely that Rocksteady and NetherRealm will end up at Sony or Amazon.

Your logic doesn't make sense imo.

It would be more likely amazon the sony, and more likely MS then amazon.

First both studios need the dc license. Second, no way in hell is that license going to sony to play second fiddle to the Marvel Spideman license. Third amazon is the competition when it comes content with WB and hbo max. They are not going to sell anything directly to them. Better selling to someone that doesn't compete in the same space. And is willing to buy the dc lcense for an extended period. Forth MS was deep in talks with WB last year (that was known as fact. If i recall spencer said they were interested)

This puts them in a unique spot.

 

[oldergamer]

Sounds like we will know tomorrow

 

[ZywyPL]

I’m definitely not saying that’s better, it’s just that $15/month is a lot in the long run, $180/year, $1260/generation (7y). It all adds up.

That's an equivalent of one 70€ every half a year, a total of 14 games throughout the same 7 years. Maybe for fanboys who cannot see any other games than 1st party exclusives that's ok because that's how many of them are there during a single gen, but for the rest of mentally sane people the numbers add up dramatically, especially when there are 2-3 titles that interest you within the same month...

 

[Genx3]

Yup, I played Sea of Thieves with a friend yesterday and got reminded why I keep coming back to it after all these years: it is bursting with originality and creativity. There is nothing quite like it on the market. Anyone who says MS neutered Rare, most likely hasn’t played SoT.

During the OG XB days Rare was going through a mid life crisis trying to figure out who they were but once they figured that out, with the 360 they gave us Perfect Dark, Kameo, Viva Pinata and even if it's not a true platform game Banjo Nuts and Bolts was one helluva vehicle design game. Mostly all original games with absolutely nothing else on the market like them.
Later that gen MS decided to make Kinect games. Even though Kinect never reached it's potential, there is no denying Rare's Kinect Sports was a damn good game that showed off Kinect's potential. During the early XB1 days they released Kinect Sports 2 and that jet ski mini game should have been turned into a full game.
Now we have Sea of Thieves, again there is nothing like it.

Rare is easily one of gaming's most Artistic and original developers.
To say MS neutered them is false.

 

[Genx3]

26 studios soon to be 30.....

.....still no games.

I'm an Microsoft fan and I'm getting bored of hearing about these purchases. I know its E3 on Sunday but please just get a steady stream of high quality games out.

What do you think all these studios are doing? Twiddling their thumbs?
Games are coming. It's early in the gen and covid has delayed development of just about everything in existence.

 

[yurinka]

If alternative is to pay Sony 80eur for 10h games?

Yes, it's better to pay that to own it over 1200€ per generation to rent it.

In fact buying PSN cash in cd key stores or buying the game in certain retail stores you can buy them cheaper at launch, and if you wait for a sale or discount you can get it even cheaper, and you can sell it to get part of that money back.

For the engine tech yes. I would love for 343 to drop their shit engine and use crytek.

If you ask me what I'd do, I'd give Halo to ID Software and would use ID Tech as engine for the next Halo games, and would turn 343 into a support studio to help ID Software and other teams. I'd move some talented engine programmers that 343 may have to ID.

They don't need Crytek for anything when they have better engines. If they end buying Crytek I'd shut down its engine once they are done supporting the few 3rd party games using it and would move some talented engine programmers 343 may have to ID and would turn Crytek into a support studio to helps made by ID Software too.

In the future ID Software would have a part focused on ID Tech engine, which would be used by many MS teams, and another part leading the development of games like Doom, Halo or Crysis as big GaaS while teams like 343 or Crytek would support them adding content.

 

[Genx3]

Neuter maybe isn’t the best word choice as they have had some decent level of output post-acquisition I can get behind. But if you don’t think the direction they’ve headed from ~2007 onward has resulted in a less free and creative atmosphere and output than they had previously in their back catalog, you’re out of your mind. They basically were relegated to Xbox arcade games and being a Kinect dev for a majority of their time. Maybe I just see it differently, but really doubt ‘Rare gets to do what Rare wants to do’ as opposed to the options they had before. I’m not hip on this info…but I somehow doubt they were begging to work on Kinect for 5+ years.

This is false as I explained in a different post.

However since you went there using that logic when Rare was with Nintendo they were forced to make Mario clones and Mario Kart clones for the majority of their time at Nintendo.

Now I'm being facetious but as you can see anything can be twisted to tell a different story.

Under MS Rare is gaming's most creative studio.

 

[El Pistolero]

My bet they purchased:

Rocksteady
Wb montreal
Monlith
Avalanche
Netherealem

And DC + harry potter license rights

And that makes you cream your pants?

 

[Fredrik]

Your logic doesn't make sense imo.

It would be more likely amazon the sony, and more likely MS then amazon.

First both studios need the dc license. Second, no way in hell is that license going to sony to play second fiddle to the Marvel Spideman license. Third amazon is the competition when it comes content with WB and hbo max. They are not going to sell anything directly to them. Better selling to someone that doesn't compete in the same space. And is willing to buy the dc lcense for an extended period. Forth MS was deep in talks with WB last year (that was known as fact. If i recall spencer said they were interested)

This puts them in a unique spot.

Just saying, nothing is certain, we also heard that multiple bidders were in talks, so don’t set yourself up for disappointment by thinking MS will buy a bunch of big devs.
Personally I expect something small and insignificant, that can grow into something great over time. And I hope nobody with a true platform exclusive strategy will buy anything significant.

 

[Genx3]

GaaS isn't about gamepass. His prediction is actually very accurate to me. GaaS is about maintaining engagement on a game by game bases, not just the subscription. Tell me what good is a big budget AAA release every month on a $15 sub if it doesn't retain players?

If it doesn’t aim to retain players by being GaaS and they are playing a new AAA game every month how is $15 the cost of 1 new AAA game every month going to work out?

Think mobile. You have players playing the same game with possible single game subs too.

If they're releasing a steady stream of good new games and providing value for your dollar then people will subscribe.

It really is that simple.
Stop being so cynical.

 

[MonarchJT]

No way.. lol

Also, are Crytek worth picking up?

with someone that could tell them the right way where to push their games the crytek would be among the best devs around a bit like what happened with guerrilla when they abandoned the old boring kz series. Basically they should just find ways to make their games fun as well as technical masterpieces.

 

[MonarchJT]

And that makes you cream your pants?

mine as gp ultimate subscriber, absolutely would

 

[Mister Wolf]

No way.. lol

Also, are Crytek worth picking up?

If they made a single player game in the Hunt Showdown Universe people would eat that shit up.

 

[iceatcs]

mine as gp ultimate subscriber, absolutely would

Aye, for under $100 for 3 years, even can do free if do some task for them.

It is not our problem, MS paying the devs, not me.

 

[oldergamer]

And that makes you cream your pants?

They are quality studios. Is it a problem to be interested in game studios up for sale?

 

[oldergamer]

Just saying, nothing is certain, we also heard that multiple bidders were in talks, so don’t set yourself up for disappointment by thinking MS will buy a bunch of big devs.
Personally I expect something small and insignificant, that can grow into something great over time. And I hope nobody with a true platform exclusive strategy will buy anything significant.

Yes i agree nothing is for certain. It already didnt happen once, if it didnt happen again im not worried, i just think it would be a good pick up. Note MS were rumored to be one of a few that didnt drop out of the running for the purchase.

 

[hlm666]

If they made a single player game in the Hunt Showdown Universe people would eat that shit up.

That game was originally ment to be a 4 player coop game like l4d etc. It turned into what it is because they needed to get some money coming in. I don't much like Hunt the way it is but a proper coop pve version but keeping it's mechanics and asthetics I would be all over.

 

[Andodalf]

So WB is 12 studios in total. In april there was a rumor they had another bethesda sized purchase happening and ms was deep in talks with WB parent company before they put the sale on hold and decided not to sell.

Suddenly harry potter, the new batman game, suicide squad have gone missing from e3.

It could be they split them up and sold 5 of those studios along with the DC games license.

I would love if batman was exclusive to xbox as a counter for sony having Spiderman. Its the only super hero game that can compete.

I highly doubt it. WB would want a shit ton for IP games rights. It easily doubled the asking price, if they were even willing to sell at all

 

[Mister Wolf]

That game was originally ment to be a 4 player coop game like l4d etc. It turned into what it is because they needed to get some money coming in. I don't much like Hunt the way it is but a proper coop pve version but keeping it's mechanics and asthetics I would be all over.

Sad to hear you don't like Hunt. The gameplay loop of co-op mixed with PVP in Civil War era southern bayou horror environment is the most fun I've ever had with an online game. I use the explosive crossbow haha. So many tactics arise from teams of human players going after the same bosses for their bounty.

 

[HoofHearted]

Gonna say Microsoft is smart, they are basically taking away the mortal kombat from Playstation as Playstation is focusing on EVO currently.
Playstation as the largest MK and hitman playerbase, i think they purposely doing so to interrupt Playstation marketshare.

 

[HoofHearted]

Oh shiiiitttt this could be true! https://www.gamesradar.com/warner-bros-games-fate-is-unknown-after-discoverywarnermedia-merger/

Strange the article didn't mention MS as they were one of the final companies doing due diligence on the possible purchase last year

This was all over the news earlier but focused on the media channels transitioning to Discovery+.

I wouldn’t be surprised at anything right now. MS is clearly aiming to disrupt the market with acquisitions and Satya has obviously opened up the checkbook.

 

[Three]

Netflix have had a huge cash burn problem for the last decade as a result of this.

AT&T just did a deal to hand over responsibility of Warner Media to Discovery because they realised how much of an expensive undertaking building a streaming focused media company is and they didn't want that burden.

You're not accounting for the amount of outlay required to also sustain a steady stream of 3rd party content. Also salary is not the only cost involved in running a business, especially not a software/media one.

People expecting a AAA game a month from Microsoft studios any time soon are delusional. They've literally just a said the target is 1 game a quarter for the service which would give their studios 2-3 years to make each game. The number of studios they have would likely need to quadruple in order for them to be able to get 1 AAA game out a month on a consistent basis and the outlay (and operating cost) of doing something like that would make the road to profitability for the service even more difficult.

The Xbox division has pivoted in recent years because it was coming under increasing pressure from investors due to the margins and profitability being so poor compared to the rest of Microsoft as a whole. The focus on Xbox being a SaaS division rather than a hardware one was supposed to fix that, not make the situation even worse.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to eventually get to 50-100 studios dependant on how successful gamepass is over a period of time but for that to be realistic the number of subscribers would need to quadruple from where it is today (or a price increase for the service).

This. A lot of the studios are not AAA studios either and they're not meant to be. Think how long netflix has been around and even they don't put out any big budget blockbuster netflix originals every quarter. They will keep a steady stream of AA games every month if even that.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

1 AAA game a month would need around 50ish AAA studios. That's 20k people or so. If we apply the 10k dollars per employee rule, that's 200 million dollars a month of upkeep cost. With the way things are going, that might actually be easy to pay for MS. Netflix spends way more on their content, the last figure I heard was 1.4 billion (yes billion) per month.

Just a fun math example, I'm not actually saying it's gonna happen. Just that it's not as unrealistic as people might think.

Netflix has 207.64 million subscribers. Their budget covers 190 countries.

 

[Genx3]

So WB is 12 studios in total. In april there was a rumor they had another bethesda sized purchase happening and ms was deep in talks with WB parent company before they put the sale on hold and decided not to sell.

Suddenly harry potter, the new batman game, suicide squad have gone missing from e3.

It could be they split them up and sold 5 of those studios along with the DC games license.

I would love if batman was exclusive to xbox as a counter for sony having Spiderman. Its the only super hero game that can compete.

An awesome Spawn game by the right studio imo could compete.

 

[jaysius]

They've owned the market share in PCs since ever, it's no shock they're using a similar strategy on consoles.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Gamepass + traditional sales on console and PC can sustain that.

Based on what?

How much does it cost to produce one AAA game per month and how much does GamePass + traditional sales on console and PC bring in?

And again, why not release two AAA games per month? Or four?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[OceanGaming]

Based on what?

How much does it cost to produce one AAA game per month and how much does GamePass + traditional sales on console and PC bring in?

And again, why not release two AAA games per month? Or four?

Satya and Phil said one game per quarter is the goal, this guy is in ridiculous hyperbole, saying a AAA game every month.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Satya and Phil said one game per quarter is the goal, this guy is in ridiculous hyperbole, saying a AAA game every month.

Even a game per quarter is doubtful imo. I dont see how Microsoft go from barely releasing anything, to a big game every quarter.. unless they were talking like 10 years in the future.

 

[OceanGaming]

Even a game per quarter is doubtful imo. I dont see how Microsoft go from barely releasing anything, to a big game every quarter.. unless they were talking like 10 years in the future.

Nah it is not doubtful if you have 30+ studios, this is why i am inclined to believe the acquisition rumors. Maybe not immediately this year but certainly in the future.