DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Manufactured drama.
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Sony cross-play documents with Epic/Dev's
- Thread starter reksveks
- Start date
Roman Empire
Member
Look clowns like make a video Yong Yea reading this whole article just to say the most redundant thing ever because they will repeating all of what the community already said.
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JawaSaysUtinni
Member
Things like this can get all exciting when we deep dive into the business contracts of gaming companies.
Taking a step back though, has this really made an impact on the end user? We still have cross play on Fortnight and other games as well. I really don’t see what the huge issue here is. It’s clearly not affecting Epic that much.
And I don’t want to suggest anything, but is hard to not acknowledge that Sony have been receiving a lot of bad PR recently. I do feel part of it is warranted (PS3 store for example), but a lot of it just seems like complete waffle and a waste time for end consumers. Nevertheless, the likes of Tom Warren bite onto it to milk it for everything its worth. I hardly think we should be handing Tom Warren the greatest journalist crown either for picking out some documents from a website, and then following it up with rather, less than funny tweet memes.
Taking a step back though, has this really made an impact on the end user? We still have cross play on Fortnight and other games as well. I really don’t see what the huge issue here is. It’s clearly not affecting Epic that much.
And I don’t want to suggest anything, but is hard to not acknowledge that Sony have been receiving a lot of bad PR recently. I do feel part of it is warranted (PS3 store for example), but a lot of it just seems like complete waffle and a waste time for end consumers. Nevertheless, the likes of Tom Warren bite onto it to milk it for everything its worth. I hardly think we should be handing Tom Warren the greatest journalist crown either for picking out some documents from a website, and then following it up with rather, less than funny tweet memes.
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Werewolfgrandma
Banned
End user argument is quite irrelevant. Not a comparison but an example: sweatshops don't have a negative effect on the end user but people are morally against them.
Files like these do show just how disingenuous these companies are. People have a right to call it shitty practice.
Krappadizzle
Member
Crossplay should just be supported. End of. Period. People who actively rally against having a larger player pool make themselves look like fools and children. Years later when you want to go back and revisit a MP game on whatever system, the larger the player pool is, the larger the likelihood of you finding varied and meaningful matches are. Stop defending Sony in this shit. They are on the wrong side of this. It's anti-consumer and anti-multiplatform developer. Sony will still make your favorite piece of plastic, they aren't going anywhere.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Anyone know where these documents come from?
"Leaked documents" in this day and age are the most dubious shit on the internet these days. If you cannot prove the source, there's no reason to believe they're legit, no matter what companies are involved.
"Leaked documents" in this day and age are the most dubious shit on the internet these days. If you cannot prove the source, there's no reason to believe they're legit, no matter what companies are involved.
it was a part of the court filing in the apple vs epic court case, they have since removed it. I wouldn't question the legitimacy of these documents.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Who found it among the court filing documents and is there evidence it actually was among them? If it's not there or accessible now, the "it was removed", excuse doesn't hang together at all when documentation made public in a court filing is rarely retracted for confidentiality reasons (almost never).
There is nothing at all wrong with exercising a bit of healthy scepticism here and asking for evidence to show the proof of the source of these documents. "I had evidence but it was removed" doesn't inspire any confidence, when it's so easy to fabricate something like this and spin some BS tale about it once being part of a current court filing.
Logically, I'd ask why it was included in the Epic vs Apple court filing at all if it has nothing to do with the Apple case? Companies are extremely careful about what internal communication gets included in these things. So sensitive, confidential information not relevant to the case just allegedly gets included in the filing in error (after review by armies of corporate lawyers) and we're just supposed to believe this is the case?... really?
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laynelane
Member
Never thought I'd see the day, where people are "upset" that the pubs/devs are not getting full revenue on the MTX models, when they agreed to the shared revenue deal (only if it drops) in the first place.
My first thought on reading this news was: 'that's some business sense on Sony's part. Give cross-play to those who want it, but cover your bases so it's not detrimental to the company'. Amazing to see the twisting to make this into evil/arrogant Sony.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sure someone has downloaded it but i don't put it pass the incompetency of the court system to accidently show something that they shouldn't have. Also Tim Sweeney and Epic have effectively collaborated it .
Epic Reveals It’s Paying Sony For PlayStation Crossplay In Some Circumstances (forbes.com)
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Krappadizzle
Member
Shadowrun, Final Fantasy, Uno...I'm sure there were others but I did play those cross play on the 360.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
It's not on the courts.
Epic themselves and their lawyers had to have intentionally selected, screened, approved and included these emails in their filings despite them being irrelevant to the case. I just cannot see that happening in an American company that often have extremely strict policies around data classification and confidentiality; especially when preparing filings for a court case.
"It just slipped in" is not an explanation I would buy for shit. The chances of that happening given the circumstances are extremely low. Regardless of the potential for systematic error.
To believe the above just happened and the "someone" downloaded it, and then it just got "deleted", becomes so conveniently incredulous that it borders on a probability somewhere between impossible and utter bollocks.
This isn't Epic corroborating anything. This merely corroborates the fact that Epic wanted cross-play and Sony didn't (which we already knew anyway). This doesn't prove anything about the veracity of these alleged documents.
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ethomaz
Banned
Truth.
I am just saying that I don't have it or downloaded it whilst it was uploaded.
If you don't believe it, that's fine. That's up to you.
Sony was the campaign asking to remove the document from the public record, you might not believe this tweet with Sony requesting for that document to seal those documents
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Hopefully, all the details have already been screen captured by game forums.
Good for everyone to see Sony's bullying tactics, including worst of all, their demand for auditing game studios books.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
You should have led with this.
This is pretty much the evidence asked for in the first place. And it gives credence to the veracity of the documents.
SteelCurtain 59
Member
Crossplay between Xbox and Playstation is objectively good for the consumer (whether it's good between PC and console is a different discussion that's irrelevant for this argument, considering both Xbox and Playstation have allowed PC crossplay for a while now).
Sony asking for money from devs to allow crossplay actively disincentivizes companies from supporting crossplay. Sure games like Fortnite or Call of Duty are willing to pay it, but the majority of multiplayer games don't support Xbox/PS crossplay, and considering Xbox clearly wants it, and devs almost certainly want it, it would seem the main reason games like Madden/FIFA, Overwatch, 2k, etc. as well as plenty of smaller games, don't have full crossplay is because of Sony requiring payment for crossplay, which as pointed out, nobody else does.
Just because you love Playstation doesn't mean you should support this, you know it's possible to unconditionally love Playstation and never want to buy an Xbox, and STILL be against a move that hurts you (no matter how slight). The people arguing that Sony is bad for doing this aren't saying that this is going to make Microsoft "win" the console war, or that this means Sony's doomed or any of that nonsense, this won't really affect Sony all that much, but even if a small amount of money would be lost by crossplay, that's worth it for the goodwill of their fanbase, which in turn brings them more money long term. And nobody is pretending Xbox is doing their pro-consumer moves out of the goodness of their heart, but sometimes short term small losses that benefit the consumer allow for longer term profit due to consumer goodwill. Think of how much good PR Sony would get if they announced "full crossplay for every crossplatform multiplayer game". If anything allowing crossplay would help the Playstation brand, which should appease the fanboys too.
Also, for those people bringing up "Xbox was against crossplay before too", that argument makes zero sense for multiple reasons
1. Xbox is under different and substantially better management than it was during the 360 era
2. It doesn't matter, they're in favor of it now, if they start preventing crossplay at a future time we can be mad at them then.
3. PSN actually was pretty bad during that era so there were arguments about security that theoretically could've been an issue (though that probably wasn't the main reason)
4. Is there any evidence Sony was in favor of crossplay with Xbox during that time? They obviously were with PC but they still are in support of it with PC, yet Xbox they seem to have an issue with, so it's quite possible Sony has never been in favor of console to console crossplay and that it was both that didn't want it in the 360/PS3 era
Sony asking for money from devs to allow crossplay actively disincentivizes companies from supporting crossplay. Sure games like Fortnite or Call of Duty are willing to pay it, but the majority of multiplayer games don't support Xbox/PS crossplay, and considering Xbox clearly wants it, and devs almost certainly want it, it would seem the main reason games like Madden/FIFA, Overwatch, 2k, etc. as well as plenty of smaller games, don't have full crossplay is because of Sony requiring payment for crossplay, which as pointed out, nobody else does.
Just because you love Playstation doesn't mean you should support this, you know it's possible to unconditionally love Playstation and never want to buy an Xbox, and STILL be against a move that hurts you (no matter how slight). The people arguing that Sony is bad for doing this aren't saying that this is going to make Microsoft "win" the console war, or that this means Sony's doomed or any of that nonsense, this won't really affect Sony all that much, but even if a small amount of money would be lost by crossplay, that's worth it for the goodwill of their fanbase, which in turn brings them more money long term. And nobody is pretending Xbox is doing their pro-consumer moves out of the goodness of their heart, but sometimes short term small losses that benefit the consumer allow for longer term profit due to consumer goodwill. Think of how much good PR Sony would get if they announced "full crossplay for every crossplatform multiplayer game". If anything allowing crossplay would help the Playstation brand, which should appease the fanboys too.
Also, for those people bringing up "Xbox was against crossplay before too", that argument makes zero sense for multiple reasons
1. Xbox is under different and substantially better management than it was during the 360 era
2. It doesn't matter, they're in favor of it now, if they start preventing crossplay at a future time we can be mad at them then.
3. PSN actually was pretty bad during that era so there were arguments about security that theoretically could've been an issue (though that probably wasn't the main reason)
4. Is there any evidence Sony was in favor of crossplay with Xbox during that time? They obviously were with PC but they still are in support of it with PC, yet Xbox they seem to have an issue with, so it's quite possible Sony has never been in favor of console to console crossplay and that it was both that didn't want it in the 360/PS3 era
SteelCurtain 59
Member
Because they pay absurd amounts of money with the sole intent to prevent other people from playing their games. Sony's strategy from the beginning has been to buy exclusivity of existing franchises to the point where people start associating multiplatform franchises with them and buy Playstation games because the casual consumer thinks games like Tomb Raider or Final Fantasy are only possible because of Sony. Which also makes it all the more ironic the people that are worried about Xbox "buying it's way" to a market lead even though Sony's exclusivity deals played a large part in their market lead now.
Also even if you exclude existing franchise exclusivity deals, most of Sony's 3rd party exclusives are going to stop being exclusive, at least the ones that are exclusive "because they're Japanese". And the ones that remain exclusive will be because of the market lead and a hefty check from Sony, not because they're "OK" with Sony
Final Fantasy XIV director says Microsoft is holding up MMO cross-play
"If we had made an FPS game then we would already have crossplay."
www.pcgamesn.com
They blocked that. When it was the old one vs PS2s massive userbase they didn't.
Portal 2
Microsoft Rejected 'Portal 2' Steam Integration, Cross-Platform Play
'Portal 2' for PlayStation 3 is getting a better offering than Microsoft, and according to Valve, Microsoft chose this route despite being offered the same features.
gamerant.com
They basically had restrictions to prevent communities forming across platforms. Because they thought they could sell Xbox Live Gold for that.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sony is historically (like Nintendo) a walled garden company. You can even see this in their other products like beta players and mini discs.
The funny thing about the argument about cross play leads to Sony losing is who says it's one-way? If the PS platform is so great, Sony should open it up and reap in all the Nintendo, Xbox and PC players who will see the light of day that playing with Sony gamers is so awesome it'll make them dump their system and join PS.
Yet, they have this fear if they open it up they can only lose. So it shows they have no confidence.
Xbox was stupid and need to make sure that they don't do this shit again.Final Fantasy XIV director says Microsoft is holding up MMO cross-play
"If we had made an FPS game then we would already have crossplay."
They blocked that. When it was the old one vs PS2s massive userbase they didn't.
Portal 2
Microsoft Rejected 'Portal 2' Steam Integration, Cross-Platform Play
'Portal 2' for PlayStation 3 is getting a better offering than Microsoft, and according to Valve, Microsoft chose this route despite being offered the same features.
They basically had restrictions to prevent communities forming across platforms. Because they thought they could sell Xbox Live Gold for that.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
It has nothing to do with confidence.
Heres' a use case.
You predominatley play on PS, you download the game on mobile for when you're going out, and it just so happens you decide to buy some MTX on that platform instead of the one you usually play on.
That's what they're trying to cover for here
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
So what. That's a one way street.
Now what if tons of PS gamers on a cross play profile buy tons of mtx on PS and then play on a smartphone or MS or Nintendo. That can happen too.
So why don't other platform makers care? As Tim Sweeney said, only Sony charges for cross play.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
And? That obligates Sony to join hands and go along with this superficial goodwill? And if they dont it shows they have no confidence? Lmao no
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Probably Golem after it. You know, too much positive news for Sony, so he needs some "balance". Especially after the 4K@60fps RT RE8 on PS5.
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Bergoglio
Member
93xfan
Banned
Sure, that’s an important aspect of having any console. If you’re a major fan of some of the franchises I mentioned, you may not be singing their praises.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
As an Xbox fan, are you happy to see Xbox not listening to their fans?
JerryinSoCal
Member
Sony allows cross play, PlayStation is their biggest business and PSN is their biggest money maker, the ONLY reason MS wanted crossplay was to hurt Sony, you can bet if xbox had done better last gen crossplay wouldn't have been a thing, MS was the first compnay to wall off online play and charge for it as well. BTW Who cares if other companies pay? it's not coming out of our pockets and as far as Epic, Sony has turned around and invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the company.
ethomaz
Banned
I’m not.
I never asked for the SJW crossplay but we are here.
If only Sony listened to their fans instead the vocal FUD squad that doesn’t even play PlayStation.
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FranXico
Member
Would you call 7.5 billion dollars an absurd amount of money? Just wondering.
ethomaz
Banned
The post of the thread.
Oh my god
Dead.
FranXico
Member
Because they need "good will" and PR to take back market share.
93xfan
Banned
Crossplay is SJW now? What a joke
ethomaz
Banned
It was since beginning.
93xfan
Banned
What features on particular are you referring to? I listed some things that wouldn’t be too difficult for Sony to change, such as having PS1 BC.
FranXico
Member
Not every insincere "righteous" movement has to do with SJW.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
I, and the vast majority of gamers, don't buy new hardware to play old games. If you give me the whole library from PS1 to PS4 I won't touch them at this point. PS4 BC was only good for 1st 6 months/first year of transition, nothing more.
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No it is not. MAYBE there is overlap between the people who feel a company is BAD (evil,. anti-consumer, etc.) for not offering it, but wanting it is not an ideological position. It just means people want to play with their friends.
Krappadizzle
Member
I love how Sony White Knights like coming back to this. Yes, they were first. They were also the first to standardize online play for consoles. There was nothing before that. It was a wild west with vastly different experiences even on the same console in regards to how online play would function. And even then, when Sony started coping MSFT in regards to online play it was "Well Sony isn't charging" and now that they are charging it's, "well MSFT did it first". Keep moving them goal post. I don't pay for either, so I don't give a shit. Who care's if companies pay? I don't care, but if paying incentivizes NOT having cross-play than I care, because that's anti-consumer.
Why you children would fight for a smaller player pool just baffles me. It's like you are shooting yourself in the foot with a Sony branded gun and thanking them for letting you shoot yourself.
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ethomaz
Banned
Do you really believes the crossplaygate was created by people that just wants to play with their friends?
C'mon... it was never about that.
The crossplaygate started as a form to talk about how Evil Sony is.
The fact that most PS owners didn't want crossplay tells you a lot more than the vocal minority on twitter that doesn't even play on PlayStation says to you.
Crossplay was never a most wanted feature... even in the old PS.Blog wishlist feature it was not a thing at all.
There are tons of things that PS players wants over crossplay.
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