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[who_me]

You guys forget Sony actually told people asking for refund to wait till January/February for patches. They never wanted to give refunds anyway.

Which meant they were never gonna refund these games unless a drastic decision was made (which was the delisting). They did it due to massive requests. If they really cared about the quality of games then there should be some games that should be removed

 

[hemo memo]

You guys forget Sony actually told people asking for refund to wait till January/February for patches.

Which meant they were never gonna refund these games unless a drastic decision was made (which was the delisting)

How about YOU fucking wait Sony and not allow the sale of a broken game in your platform? You did? Then live with the fucking consequences and consumer right for refunds.

 

[who_me]

How about YOU fucking wait Sony and not allow the sale of a broken game in your platform? You did? Then live with the fucking consequences and consumer right for refunds.

This is the same company that won’t let you use your ds4 for ps5, even though the buttons are the same Oh and you can turn off adaptive triggers which makes the dual sense similar to the ds4

Oh let’s not forget the back button attachment which is useless for next gen. How you release a product the same year as your new console and not have forward compatibility

 

[Bartski]

man all those tweet liking scandals of recent are just ridiculous

 

[Three]

They should spend more time fixing their game and less time on Twitter.



If you want to point fingers at Sony and their policies for this fiasco, I'd start with how they certify titles. The game should have never been offered in the first place and I do think all the platform holders share some culpability in that.

I doubt the the tweet is entirely true either. The number of complaints Sony received is probably a bigger chunk of why the game was pulled and refunds were issued. Let's not forget Microsoft and BestBuy went outside of their policies as well thanks to this half baked cake.

Contrary to popular belief games don't go through extensive QA from platform holders for certification. That would be ridiculously expensive and time consuming for the hundreds of games they get. Only very specific things are checked, the scope is very limited.

 

[Radical_3d]

So, was not a mutual decision…

Spoiler

When you write “a decision was made” is always something that you didn’t decided.

 

[Kimahri]

Oh my god! Say it ain't so! I liked some TWEETS?!? The fucking audacity.

Jesus christ this world is stupid.

 

[DogofWar]

What?! No?! How?!

Did he like a Tweet that defended his company?!

I will burn my copy of the Witcher 3 and Remove it from my library on PS4 this is unacceptable!
What's next?! A CEO recommending his own product or something? Fucking infuriating!

 

[The Shift]

Both Microsoft and Sony had a large chunk of cash earnings tied to the sale of this title. Both knew the game was bug riddled and performed less than satisfactory. Both of these corporations allowed the title to be flagged for sale on their respective systems. Ire should be directed at the negligent store policies that are currently in place regardless if the same or similar situations have happened in the past.

Stop signal boosting Microsoft and Sony as some kind of benevolent entities - they cared enough about their once in a generation earn, knowingly deployed a broken game but fucked their customers in the process.

 

[Komatsu]

All these games people mentioned like NMS, Avanger, Anthem etc, didn’t crash every fucking 20 min

Anthem bricked consoles, dude.

 

[Kadayi]

Also, you played over 40 hrs but are going to ask for a refund....

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

unless there’s a huge bucket of money on the table, they will continue to support Sony’s platforms which likely provide 30-40% of their sales

and you can bet that the crunch is on to get the game back on PSN

No need to get all insecure about a joke dude

 

[Hudo]

And what a fucked up anti-consumer store policy is that. Fuck Sony and their policies.

Yeah, CDPR have royally fucked up but Sony have fucked up even more with this bullshit.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No need to get all insecure about a joke dude

thanks for making it obviously a joke...hard to tell around here, dude.

 

[Shmunter]

 

[ArtHands]

You guys forget Sony actually told people asking for refund to wait till January/February for patches. They never wanted to give refunds anyway.

Which meant they were never gonna refund these games unless a drastic decision was made (which was the delisting). They did it due to massive requests. If they really cared about the quality of games then there should be some games that should be removed

This is something people tend to ‘conveniently forget’ for some ‘unknown reason’

 

[SafeOrAlone]

That mentally stuck in the past is really weird.

“Why they didn’t do the same in the past?” I don’t know because they should... now if they didn’t in the past they can continue not doing it now?

I mean the industry needs to wake up.
Past mistakes is not a reason to do future mistakes.

I hope from now every publisher that tries to sell a broken game on PS Store get delisted.

It's not about being stuck in the past. We look to the past for context and information.

The reason we look to the past here, is to form a fully rounded opinion on what Sony's intention with CP2077 is. Sony has never pulled a game like this before, and no one has ever highlighted how poorly Sony's refund policies are before, so it stands to reason that Sony isn't doing this for the player and will still likely be fine selling us buggy games in the future. I wouldn't commend Sony for it. To me, it looks like they are trying to sweep dirt under the rug before anyone notices.

 

[hemo memo]

Did they run out of influencers to gift?

 

[ArtHands]

Sony should just blacklist CDPR for the next decade or two and not let them release game on Playstation, and use them to serves a warning to everyone that how strict their quality curation on Playstation is.

 

[Orta]

Fuck everyone. Especially YOU!

 

[GrayChild]

And what a fucked up anti-consumer store policy is that. Fuck Sony and their policies.

CDPR are the most pro-consumer developer, and the only one to stand up against Sony's predatory tactics. <3

 

[mekes]

For a company that announce themselves as "For The Players" they have many anti consumer ways about them for sure, hopefully this experience traumatises Jim Ryan into rethinking their policies.

For the payers

 

[Aion002]

Oh there it is! It's all Sony's fault. Poor CD PR, being bullied by evil Sony!11!!!11!!

This thread has some Twilight Zone material.

 

[FrozenFlame]

Fuck everyone. Especially YOU!

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

CDPR doing gods work by enacting real change in return policy. Any other product you bring it back in 30 days; video games no returns final sale your kid bought it, well get in control of your damn household.

 

[SJRB]

People siding with CDPR and blaming Sony in this thread is just bizarre to me. Is it Stockholm Syndrome or something? Or is it just sarcasm?

CDPR has no business pulling a whataboutism after the insane, insane way they deliberately kept base PS4/Xbox versions hidden until it was literally too late. And then they forced Sony's hand by saying consumers should go to Sony for a refund. Which is not how the Playstation Store operates, so either Sony has to completely change their policies on the fly just to accomodate the insane statement from CDPR, or eject 2077 from the store to be able to actually refund.

There is literally no situation where CDPR did not bring this on themselves at this point.

 

[paypay88]

This is what gaming become , witch hunting people's personal accounts to make drama.
What a sad situation we are living in.

 

[paypay88]

Sony should just blacklist CDPR for the next decade or two and not let them release game on Playstation, and use them to serves a warning to everyone that how strict their quality curation on Playstation is.

maybe they should allow blacklist themselves for releasing sub par 30 fps games like Bloodborne.
That shit still runs at 25-23 fps and prominently marketed in PS Plus collection. they are too "_insertword" to make a patch.

Imagine this in PC gaming, best forthcoming - savior of gaming game is stuck at 23-25 fps. Yeah you can't.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And what a fucked up anti-consumer store policy is that. Fuck Sony and their policies.

Both at fault. CD for making a broken game. And Sony still selling it even though they supposedly have a certification process to weed out broken games.

Aside from people buying 2077 from GOG (direct from CD), every one else is buying it from a store or digital storefront. If MS or Sony are going to sell people a broken game despite even claiming they certify games for gamers, they share blame too.

And since gamers buy it from these places (aside from GOG direct), they have an obligation to refund gamers since that's where they bought it from. If you buy a shitty microwave from Walmart, you get the refund from Walmart. If Walmart says get lost, go get the refund at Panasonic, they can do that. But who's the ass who sold it in the first place to people? Walmart.

That's called Passing The Fucking Buck.

And if that goes against Sony policy because they don't want to deal with the refunds in the first place because they want all digital sales to be final, then they are at fault. You sold it, you take back broken stuff.

Ever work at a company that did a recall of products? I have. It happens every once in a while. What happens is it originates usually from some health notice the government found out and you got to do a recall based on mislabeled ingredients. ASAP, the company will send out recall letters and procedures.

Even if someone bought the shitty product a year ago, the standard procedure is to refund all people, compensate the retailer, and the store has a choice. Destroy the product, or send it back to the company and it will be destroyed here. If the store handles it, we may be willing to pay a destruction and disposal fee they bill us for.

Shit happens.

But for totally broken products, no ethical store put up this "we don't take refunds" go to the manufacturer. If they do, it's usually a shady store with shit ass policies who take no responsibility in the products they sell. And for MS/Sony it's worse because they even claim to certify games for gamers to ensure they supposedly work.

 

[Bodomism]

I and Clarissa's friend watching this shit show unfold.

 

[martino]

People siding with CDPR and blaming Sony in this thread is just bizarre to me. Is it Stockholm Syndrome or something? Or is it just sarcasm?

CDPR has no business pulling a whataboutism after the insane, insane way they deliberately kept base PS4/Xbox versions hidden until it was literally too late. And then they forced Sony's hand by saying consumers should go to Sony for a refund. Which is not how the Playstation Store operates, so either Sony has to completely change their policies on the fly just to accomodate the insane statement from CDPR, or eject 2077 from the store to be able to actually refund.

There is literally no situation where CDPR did not bring this on themselves at this point.

Normal people should blame the two :
- cdpr for state of the game
- sony for refund policy

 

[Blue Spring]

This makes him look like a bitch tbh. If he is angry about Sonys decision he should make a public statement instead of liking fanboy tweets that attack Sony and other developers to defend CDPR failure. But of course the weasel wont do that because Sony would rip them another asshole.

 

[Blue Spring]

Normal people should blame the two :
- cdpr for state of the game
- sony for refund policy

Also valves, microsofts and the retailers refund policy. Edit: but this should be a general discussion and not crutch for CDPR.

 

[Bartski]

not a chance he casually just tapped it while taking a shit

 

[Herr Edgy]

1. Certification process is not about certifying game quality. It's about the game fitting the base requirements to be on that platform, meaning: it won't screw with your system, you can leave it in a paused state and resume after hours without memory leaks, button prompts are correct, achievements work. This kind of stuff.

2. With a release as big as CP 2077, you know that cert wouldn't cut it in the first place. Big day one patches are the norm. What do you think Sony certified? The "gold" release (guess we should call it copper by now). Platform holders have to give some leeway to large developers and trust them to fix certain things with the day 1 patch. They can't certify what doesn't exist yet. If CDPR tells Sony "yes yes game is going to be fine on release", that's all they can trust in.

3. Taking it off the store isn't based on the game's quality but CDPR dragging Sony into huge amounts of refund requests that not only negates the profits buts also costs money.

4. If a "refund-whenever" stance is assumed, but the game is continued to be sold, what do you think how many people would just buy it to play it, then refund it a week after or so? It would effectively be a free game to play through, and for one of the biggest releases in recent times.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Normal people should blame the two :
- cdpr for state of the game
- sony for refund policy

Both at fault.

But I'd say Sony and any other certification process company (like MS and Nintendo) are more at fault now that I think of it more, since it's their platform and they certify quality and have the ultimate say whether it shows up to purchase or not.

I'm not sure if Steam does this.

If a game company makes a crap ass game that doesn't even get passed the title page, is that Random Game Studio X's fault? Or MS, Sony, Nintendo allowing it to pass through their walled garden of certification testers as a salable product?

Last line of defence is the platform holder. It can be argued they are more at fault. And even worse if they are stodgy on refund policies.

For example, if you buy an electrical product and it's certified by CSA or UL with a big stamp on it and zaps everyone's hands the second they turn on the switch, whose fault is it? The manufacturer? Or CSA/UL certifying it's a safe product?

 

[v_iHuGi]

Sony Ponies shifting blame on the developer for their shit store policies? Hilarious.

We're used to GOTY games, sorry that you don't know what a GOTY is & never will.

 

[Herr Edgy]

Both at fault.

But I'd say Sony and any other certification process company (like MS and Nintendo) are more at fault now that I think of it more, since it's their platform and they certify quality and have the ultimate say whether it shows up to purchase or not.

I'm not sure if Steam does this.

If a game company makes a crap ass game that doesn't even get passed the title page, is that Random Game Studio X's fault? Or MS, Sony, Nintendo allowing it to pass through their walled garden of certification testers as a salable product?

Last line of defence is the platform holder. It can be argued they are more at fault. And even worse if they are stodgy on refund policies.

How about just blaming the consumer who buys without thinking and looking at what he's buying?
By your line of thinking, at least.

The blaming going on in this thread is next level.

 

[The Shift]

1. Certification process is not about certifying game quality. It's about the game fitting the base requirements to be on that platform, meaning: it won't screw with your system, you can leave it in a paused state and resume after hours without memory leaks, button prompts are correct, achievements work. This kind of stuff.

I'm simply not going to believe this title wasn't played through by certification and third party content teams at MS or Sony before it was flagged for sale. No.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

How about just blaming the consumer who buys without thinking and looking at what he's buying?
By your line of thinking, at least.

The blaming going on in this thread is next level.

You're a Buyer Beware kind of consumer.

Got it.

 

[cebri.one]

Publisher releases game in this state

"hohoho sony ponies blaming it on the developer"

 

[Edgelord79]

Companies have become more scummy in this pandemic.

Both things can be true.

 

[ArtHands]

Both at fault. CD for making a broken game. And Sony still selling it even though they supposedly have a certification process to weed out broken games.

Aside from people buying 2077 from GOG (direct from CD), every one else is buying it from a store or digital storefront. If MS or Sony are going to sell people a broken game despite even claiming they certify games for gamers, they share blame too.

And since gamers buy it from these places (aside from GOG direct), they have an obligation to refund gamers since that's where they bought it from. If you buy a shitty microwave from Walmart, you get the refund from Walmart. If Walmart says get lost, go get the refund at Panasonic, they can do that. But who's the ass who sold it in the first place to people? Walmart.

That's called Passing The Fucking Buck.

And if that goes against Sony policy because they don't want to deal with the refunds in the first place because they want all digital sales to be final, then they are at fault. You sold it, you take back broken stuff.

Ever work at a company that did a recall of products? I have. It happens every once in a while. What happens is it originates usually from some health notice the government found out and you got to do a recall based on mislabeled ingredients. ASAP, the company will send out recall letters and procedures.

Even if someone bought the shitty product a year ago, the standard procedure is to refund all people, compensate the retailer, and the store has a choice. Destroy the product, or send it back to the company and it will be destroyed here. If the store handles it, we may be willing to pay a destruction and disposal fee they bill us for.

Shit happens.

But for totally broken products, no ethical store put up this "we don't take refunds" go to the manufacturer. If they do, it's usually a shady store with shit ass policies who take no responsibility in the products they sell. And for MS/Sony it's worse because they even claim to certify games for gamers to ensure they supposedly work.

Hit the nail to the head there. People is pissed that CDPR is allowing refund, because they don't want the ball to be in Sony's court.

 

[Herr Edgy]

You're a Buyer Beware kind of consumer.

Got it.

I'm reasonable, if that's what you mean. Imagine blaming companies for offering you something you don't want and you proceeding to buy that. Isn't GAF hyper focused on personal responsibility? What happened to that?

I'm simply not going to believe this title wasn't played through by certification and third party content teams at MS or Sony before it was flagged for sale. No.

I don't know where you got this from my post. Of course it was played. It just passed certification because low fps (and the likes) is not what certification is about. In addition, what is a platform holder supposed to do when the renowned developer tells you they are going to have a big day 1 patch that will address the biggest issues? It's common practice in AAA. No fuck ups to that degree have happened so far for games as present as CP 2077. It's the same mentality that led people to pre-order because "of course it's going to be fine".

 

[Nezzeroth]

Next time release a game that's actually playable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm reasonable, if that's what you mean. Imagine blaming companies for offering you something you don't want and you proceeding to buy that. Isn't GAF hyper focused on personal responsibility? What happened to that?

What you said doesn't even make sense. Why would someone buy a game they don't want?

You aren't being reasonable. In life there is a certain level of standards people expect out of companies and products. And for a game like 2077, and MS/Sony with their "we certify games so they work" protocols, you'd think 2077 at least doesn't bomb and crash every hour or run at 15 fps.

What you're thinking is that every product purchase in life should be a total free for all, there's no standards and every customer should research every game, bag of chips or roll of toilet paper because there are no minimum quality standards, where everything sold can be the equivalent of dog shit.

That's not what good economies, companies, stores and society should resort to...... cloak and dagger products quality.

And as people have stated (including me), it's even worse with games because Sony and MS supposedly QA test games. And if their QA testing is green lighting last gen games that barely work , that's got to be the shittiest QA certification department ever. And that assumes they even tested it.

As for your mention about Gold testing and assuming the final game will be better, that's a terrible process and assumption Sony and MS makes. How can any company in charge of approvals and certification just wing it and assume a final product a month from now will be better without testing it themselves?

 

[assurdum]

Don't say that, the Sony army will come after you.

CD Projekt Red has had the most generous refund policy in gaming for about 10 years now but people frankly believe that Sony is looking out for the "players' interest", even though in the very recent past they left games that either (1) bricked the console or (2) caused massive overheating issues up for sale on their storefront with not a care in the world.



So why did they not do this with.. um... Anthem?

Please, they simply don't want to change their asinine refund policy. It has nothing to do with the game's quality.

Dude Sony refund policy sucks, we know it but really CDPR CEO has the courage to blame them for something? He still talks? Like seriously? What exactly is customers friendly in release a game in such conditions on base console and say wait for the patches? Sony is free to do whatever they want in their marketplace, CDPR can just shut up and go on. It's not a victim.

 

[Kerotan]

Hahaha they are so salty. They just can't accept they fucked everything up. And now Sony fucked them up even more.

 

[Max_Po]

Both at fault. CD for making a broken game. And Sony still selling it even though they supposedly have a certification process to weed out broken games.

Aside from people buying 2077 from GOG (direct from CD), every one else is buying it from a store or digital storefront. If MS or Sony are going to sell people a broken game despite even claiming they certify games for gamers, they share blame too.

And since gamers buy it from these places (aside from GOG direct), they have an obligation to refund gamers since that's where they bought it from. If you buy a shitty microwave from Walmart, you get the refund from Walmart. If Walmart says get lost, go get the refund at Panasonic, they can do that. But who's the ass who sold it in the first place to people? Walmart.

That's called Passing The Fucking Buck.

And if that goes against Sony policy because they don't want to deal with the refunds in the first place because they want all digital sales to be final, then they are at fault. You sold it, you take back broken stuff.

Ever work at a company that did a recall of products? I have. It happens every once in a while. What happens is it originates usually from some health notice the government found out and you got to do a recall based on mislabeled ingredients. ASAP, the company will send out recall letters and procedures.

Even if someone bought the shitty product a year ago, the standard procedure is to refund all people, compensate the retailer, and the store has a choice. Destroy the product, or send it back to the company and it will be destroyed here. If the store handles it, we may be willing to pay a destruction and disposal fee they bill us for.

Shit happens.

But for totally broken products, no ethical store put up this "we don't take refunds" go to the manufacturer. If they do, it's usually a shady store with shit ass policies who take no responsibility in the products they sell. And for MS/Sony it's worse because they even claim to certify games for gamers to ensure they supposedly work.

If you followed their investor call. CDPR lied to get their game certified to both SONY and MS.

They admitted it.

Secondly, why are people so surprised? They did the same shit with Witcher 3. It had a lot of problems on consoles and took them over a year to improve performance.

And quiet frankly, they could not even deliver on PC...

 

[The Shift]

I'm reasonable, if that's what you mean. Imagine blaming companies for offering you something you don't want and you proceeding to buy that. Isn't GAF hyper focused on personal responsibility? What happened to that?


I don't know where you got this from my post. Of course it was played. It just passed certification because low fps (and the likes) is not what certification is about. In addition, what is a platform holder supposed to do when the renowned developer tells you they are going to have a big day 1 patch that will address the biggest issues? It's common practice in AAA. No fuck ups to that degree have happened so far for games as present as CP 2077. It's the same mentality that led people to pre-order because "of course it's going to be fine".

I understand what you're getting at - but the final call to 'pull the lever' so to speak rests solely on MS and Sony's store policies. Costco can knowingly sell me camel piss laced Coke all they want - that they knew it was spoiled when they took my money is a big fucking problem.