• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Cyberpunk 2077 - Review Thread

Should we lock this thread?

  • Yes

    Votes: 196 23.8%
  • No

    Votes: 628 76.2%

  • Total voters
    824

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Alright I read through this review and it doesn't complain about anything offensive but it does complain about something I was really worried, the verticality of the world being fake. All the latest videos have shown me that they steered away from indoor exploration and just went with some cybepunk GTA and this reviewer confirms that. Most of the city is basically an exterior showcase and while you can go up, exploring interiors like in Deus Ex is not what the game offers, at least not much. Instead it just gives you quests and you go there and complete them. He says they dont feel natural, connected and the guy weirdly says that there are no options to complete quests without violence which I'm pretty sure CDPR confirmed you could but I guess they lied? Not sure what to believe now but I've skeemed through some of the other low scores and they all say the same things, besides the usual "blablabla offended". Guess CDPR did bite more than they could chew and promised a lot they couldnt deliver. It will still be a great game no doubt but I really wanted a cyberpunk game where I could explore vertically and inside buildings. No idea why I have this weird fetish but w/e.

I have stayed away from most of the trailers and game play so I can't really confirm or deny but I do remember them saying you have options. That whole "choose how you want to play" has always felt artificial to me. You realistically are only going to have a few options.
 

KungFucius

King Snowflake
SO good game and I probably should wait for a patch to get the best experience. Nice. I can finish AC and then the Fenix game before my U+ sub hits month 3.
 
4685470-9-kb-png-pink-wojak-clipart-642864-pinclipart-wojak-png-880_688_preview.png
Can't see it
 

N30RYU

Gold Member
With all these bugs, I feel it's best to wait until next year to play it. Sounds like we will be playing a very unpolished and incomplete game this week.

I'm sure they have a bunch of updates lined up in their roadmap going into next year.
but... but... what if the ending is breathtaking and you get spoiled???

You can do a quick story run... and wait for fixes and the nextgen patch
 

xMxHx

Neo Member
CDPR is a transphobic company. That will read as being incendiary but there's little else that fits when there's a history spanning years of their disdain, mocking of and disregard for trans identities in their games, conduct and promotions. From the outset I want to make it clear that coming in with "they support LGBT" isn't needed here. It's of no material concern that members of the company go to Pride. The LGBT community isn't some homogenous lump and never has been. Many people within the community and out support the LG&B while holding contempt and dislike for the T. This topic is about that final letter and the way in which this company has repeatedly proven that they hold no regard for us in their output.

All of the below are conscious actions being spoken to. What is also worth highlighting is the lack of action as well. CDPR across these past two years have been in every position, both in knowledge and ability, to extend an olive branch toward the trans community. In among their many delays they had the option to incorporate feedback from the community and haven't. In amongst all of the videos of cars, guns, chrome and gangs they had the opportunity to take the concerns to heart and deep dive into how gender and trans representation is being handled with nuance in CP77. They haven't. This speaks as much to their intent as the elements below, and is worth considering among them.

Nor can any of this be put down to an instance of a well-meaning blunder toward being progressive, which I might buy on a single incident from a small studio. This is a giant international corporation who, had they the intent of being inclusive as a focus of the game, would have managed to avoid any of the below. This – not being repeatedly transphobic – is something that most other major companies manage to avoid. There are trans charities in Poland and many internationally that could have been brought in from the start to consult. This is a company that is content to wave inclusivity around to garner press while committing no legwork or depth of thought toward it.


Context
-

I want to start by giving some grounding to the issue as far too often we have the refrain of "it's just a game" levelled against us. The truth is that the majority of people don't know someone who is openly trans. Have had no known contact with someone that is openly trans and therefore have little direct relation to the issues we face, our lives and our bodies. The majority of information people do receive about us is via the media they consume. The issue here is that trans representation or depiction in media has historically been either through mockery or disgust, and more commonly now – fetishization. We are set dressing for laughs, for being reviled or for pleasure. Frequently reduced down to our genitals and bodies in favour of seeing a person. Due to this, the way media presents us is in direct relation to the abuse, harm and threats we face in life. For more of an understanding around this in relation to film, I recommend the Netflix documentary Disclosure. This issue extends across all media, including games and print. People frequently perceive us through these depictions and when we're presented as little more than a joke, that's what we're taken as.

So if it is 'just a game' to you, consider why it isn't able to be for others. How you can help others enjoy them as just games, and not something they have to question how much mockery or harm they're expected to endure while interacting with them.


Tweets
-

On the 20th August 2018 the official Cyberpunk twitter posted this tweet response:



This initial instance can seem innocuous on the surface but it's a transphobic line conjured around "outrage culture" and the notion that trans people are looking to be offended. Which, naturally, is a common pushback from people that are being offensive and how this joke is usually employed. Trans people don't respond to being misgendered with "did you assume my gender?". In fact most trans people are terrified of even raising the fact that they are being misgendered. Contesting this is something that can frequently put you in harms way and unless you're speaking to an out and out ally it's always a dice roll as to how it will be received. Often it will be through mocking, and this is where the point of transphobic jokes is worth highlighting. It renders our identities as fanciful and frivolous; something to be tolerated instead of accepted. When trans identities aren't taken seriously it directly affects our ability to live as who we are.

There is no distinction between the joke and the transphobia because transphobia has persistently centered itself around the notion that we are a joke.

In response Cyberpunk posted this:



People who have had to deal with bigotry will recognise the all-too-common apology of "sorry to those offended". The apology isn't a recognition that their actions were transphobic nor a statement that trans identities are valid. Instead it appeals to that which we've just mentioned; those that see trans people as people constantly offended by everything. It doesn't offer a recognition that the act itself was the issue, but that it happened to offend some people.

This can be evidenced by the responses, some of which shown below, which are a crowd of fans CDPR has increasingly become conscious of and pander toward:






A couple of months later, on the 22nd October 2018, the twitter account for CDPR's online storefront GOG posted this tweet:



This made light of the hashtag #WontBeErased on Twitter that, at the time, was trending because of a Trump administration memo that proposed a strict definition of gender based on a person’s genitalia at birth. Something that would work toward the erasure of trans identities. Anyone viewing the hashtag would have seen the context in which it sat. This wasn't the first issue the GOG twitter account had had either, with a prior tweet appealing to the same alt-right fanbase by posting a tweet around the death of journalism and Gamergate.

In response, and to their credit, GOG fired the person involved who then went on to work for an alt-right website. However three troubling tweets in almost as many months caused concern around the culture across the two companies, and the tolerance for transphobia in their working environment.


Cyberpunk 2077 Adverts / "It's a Dystopia"
-

In one of the gameplay reveals in June 2019 this poster was spotted on a surface in the game:



It depicts a fetishized caricature of a trans women, complete with over-emphasised erection, the phrase "Mix It Up" and the name of the advertised drink; "Chromanticore". The issue will be apparent to many but I'll break it down so it's clear. First of all you have the character; a fetishized image of a trans woman's body that is only there to highlight the "trans" nature of her. As mentioned in the opening paragraphs this falls into one of the common ways in which transphobia manifests; reducing us down to our genitals for display at the expense of any sense of us as people. "Mix It Up" implies the frivolous nature of being trans as though we pick and choose our gender identity. Again falling victim to another form of transphobia.

Finally we have "Chromanticore" which on a generous read is a mix of "chrome" and "manticore" and at worst "chromosome" and "manticore". Forgiving the ambiguity of the first word the second still becomes inherently insulting. A manticore is a mythical beast comprised of parts of different animals. On a more subtle level it literally means "man eater", where the fear of men being "tricked" into falling for a trans woman resonates – though I highly doubt this specific aspect was part of the thought process, it works to support the fact that we need more trans women working on products that aim to depict us. On the overt and obvious, it's depicting an over-emphasised trans woman while relating her to a beast. Trans people will know all too well the common insults thrown at them in disgust (3 for 3), relating them to being unnatural or monsters.

In response to the criticism raised, CDPR came out with a response that included the following justification:


Which rings hollow in a few ways. The most apparent being that CDPR, themselves a massive corporation, are content to invoke this imagery and defend its use while simultaneously promoting the game as diverse and inclusive. This isn't just true of their use of it in the game, but also their literal use of it in offline events as set dressing and promo material:



Which only compounds the next point that you cannot state that it is terrible and what one is supposed to fight against, while continuing to position it front and center – completely decoupled from that message. It just becomes a transphobic advert being used to promote a game to make money for a massive corporation. In addition, there were cans of the drink available – a drink that is drawing a line to being trans – labelled as poison. One tone deaf incident is forgiven but when multiple elements come together, all transphobic, you start to question how much it's an articulation of issues in society, and how much it's using these things to reinforce a veneer of edge around their product. Appealing to a crowd of people all too content to mock trans people, at the expense of those being targeted.

This also isn't the only advert that comes at the expense of trans bodies either, as we can see below:



With no intent to explain the alleged nuance outside of defending the artwork, it's hard to take it seriously. These are plastered across Night City and seen in most promotional videos that have been put out about the game. No such video or message contextualizing these elements has been given alongside. Instead we have endless reams of how cool everything looks, what the guns are like and what Porsche model will be in the game. As mentioned earlier, if CDPR wanted to clarify these things and extend some consideration toward the trans community around them, they could – and would – have done. As it is, they're content to continue to use this imagery and claim diversity, all while leaving the extent of how much transphobic content will be in the game ambiguous to those trans people interested.

The response of "it's a dystopia it's meant to be bad" holds little weight as well when these things are constantly decoupled from any actual criticism. This is moving past the fact that just because a setting is supposed to be bad doesn't mean we need to lean on transphobia as a means to depict it. There's plenty of other awful things that the game will not invoke or use to facilitate this, and fetishizing and mocking us as the backdrop to it is an easy target. Especially in the knowledge that many fans see zero issue with these things, including Mike Pondsmith himself, so the extent to which that "terrible" message is landing is already minor.


Political Sympathies
-
In among this, it's important to bring the grounding that CDPR operates from a country that's in the midst of a nationwide crackdown on trans people and all those within the LGBTQ+ community. This has garnered worldwide condemnation and even brought into question the IOC's choice of hosting the Olympics there. Townships have declared themselves LGBT-Free and propaganda seeking to exile members of the community is regularly passed around, in some cases even being included with news publications.

In addition to further raising suspicion around the internal culture of CDPR with regard transphobia, it also becomes a direct concern when met against the content being spoken of in the game. In particular because in a recent interview with Paweł Sasko, the Lead Quest Designer on CP77, the politics of staff was mentioned:


Speaking to the importance of representing various political sympathies becomes concerning when you have both the above context and a company, and game, that have pandered to the alt-right and had numerous instances of transphobia. It becomes hard to not draw the line between this disregard of trans people in the game and in the output of the company, with that importance and the political climate of Poland.

If you are interested in learning more about the situation in Poland further information can be found here (1, 2, 3), and you can support directly here.


Character Creator
-



After speaking heavily to how inclusive Cyberpunk 2077 would be, it's been confirmed that the character creator will tie the pronouns the game uses to refer to the character with, with the pitch of voice chosen. Meaning that if you choose a traditionally female body type but select a deeper voice, your character will be referred to as "he" or "him" in the game's dialogue. Voice pitch is a sensitive issue in the trans community and with transition as HRT has no bearing on your voice when transitioning as a trans woman, or toward transfeminine identities. As a direct result it becomes something that many trans people are conscious of when they attempt to pass, as it's an element that works against you when people frequently associate a deep voice to being a man, and a high voice to being a women. This in a very real sense is an issue of safety for trans people offline, as having a deeper voice while presenting femme can result in abuse. However it isn't an immediate black or white picture when it comes to how trans people feel about their voice outside of those issues. Your voice is as personal to you as anything else, and there are many trans people that would prefer to be able to feel comfortable using their real voice as opposed to putting in considerable effort toward changing it in the hope of better acceptance.

So the consequence of the character creator is one that allows for cis people to make a "chick with a dick" a la the controversial poster, at the expense of trans people being able to create characters that represent them. Once again, it seems to highlight the nature of "diversity" when it comes to CP77; that it's commonly aimed toward the cisgender crowd over showing consideration for transgender people and true inclusivity. This hasn't prevented CDPR from lapping up a lot of publicity claiming that it is inclusive though, and in effect having their cake and eating it. Too often we now have cis people come back to us touting this alleged inclusivity and character creator, in the face of our issues with the game.


Official Cosplay Competition
-
Now we have the most recent example of CDPR's disdain for trans people. If you recall the defense for the caricature of the trans woman in the "Chromanticore" poster was that the fetishization of the trans character was to be seen as "terrible". Something CDPR claim to see as something that should be fought against. Which as discussed is already brought into question by their own use of it in offline promos, but is completely blown apart by their choice of finalist in their recent cosplay competition. Not just via social media, but in their official Night City Wire pre-presentation.




I do believe a cisgender woman can cosplay a trans woman, and that there's little issue if it's done respectfully. That isn't the case here though. This isn't a trans character in the game with any given depth, it's an illustration in an advert whose sole purpose is to fetishize the body of a trans woman, where her transness is reduced in full to her genitals and a comparison is drawn to a beast. The only reason it was of any note was because of the controversy surrounding it and the issues trans people had with it, so it's hard not to find the choice suspect in the first place.

What solidifies the problem is when the cisgender woman in question is treating that aspect of the trans woman as a joke; as something to laugh at. Drawing primary attention once again to the genitals and making it the central part of the cosplay. There's no desire to become any character, but instead become a walking mockery of a trans person that was only ever there to begin with as a fetishization. It's not as though cisgender women are de-facto in support of the rights of trans women, so when someone is treating our bodies as something to be laughed over, and is roleplaying us purely to serve for comedic purposes, I find it poor – to put it mildly. It further reinforces us as a joke, and that in itself is transphobic.

This loops back to the advert itself, as mentioned before the justification was that it was intended to be terrible, in addition to:



If it's designed to be a terrible and distasteful advert working at the expense of trans women – something CDPR themselves tells us we should be fighting against – you can't then decouple it from the criticism to use frivolously for laughs or promotional material. Promoting someone taking that imagery, further accenting and highlighting the parts we're supposed to take issue with, all while laughing about it, renders that original intent meaningless. Put bluntly; when you're flying people out to take part in a video shoot for your promo and they're walking around with a fake neon penis representing the thing you claim to hate, how can we take any notion of nuance around trans people, issues and bodies seriously within both CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077?


CDPR are content to exploit both their workers and trans people for financial gain, alongside courting an obvious and loud alt-right fanbase.
-
They are a transphobic company content to lean on inclusivity as a promotional tool at the expense of trans people. Consistently treating us with ridicule and afterthought while claiming the opposite. They are happy to foster a toxic work environment grinding their workers to the bone. They are happy to lean into the chud fanbase they know they've garnered over the years.

It is obvious they don't care about us, but they still care about the fans that stick with them regardless. So it is in this that I ask that even if you're hyped to jump into Night City, you become vocal about these issues and offer support in bringing their attention to CDPR. Whether it's here, on Twitter or in feedback forms – letting them know that you're a fan but you dislike the way they have acted toward the trans community is of value. If you aren't willing to be critical of a company you like while enjoying their product, at the expense of trans voices, then – insofar as I'm concerned – you can't consider yourself a trans ally. If that stings, it should, because it means that you're aware that you allow your excitement of a game prevent you from supporting the communities it takes advantage of.

What's often missing from the retorts is that I was once hyped for the game. The logo treatment reveal was stunning, the art direction posters were a lock for purchase. It looked great. However when it becomes a question of how much transphobic content I'll be expected to put up with as I attempt to enjoy the game, it's hard to remain enthused by it. It becomes a question of why I'm supporting a company that's repeatedly showing they're content to mock people like me, and perpetuate stereotypes that affect us offline in life. That continue the lines of thought that place our lives in danger and our respect in question.

This isn't some "rah rah boycott" motion that people like to distill it down to. It's what it feels like when you face a company and product that comes at the expense of you and others like you. If you don't know what that feels like, consider how fortunate it is that you get to engage with this medium without such a concern. Perhaps become more active in lending your voice toward choruses like this, so that we too can enjoy games without it. If there's one thing I'm sure of it's that both CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 have the ability to be great without being transphobic.

giphy.gif
d53v8j8-6e8eb57a-b6dd-4c76-8b84-245275c6b854.gif
UPsspV6.jpg
 
Last edited:

Valonquar

Member
IMHO the bugs I've seen warrant more scrutiny than a 4/5 allows. I mean, I'm all for something like "2/5 and we will change our score once developers fix major cutscene bugs." Imagine watching the latest Marvel movie and the action scene suddenly goes 15FPS low poly, or all the stuntmen look completely wrong. Games release half finished and half debugged BECAUSE we accept this level of bullshit.
 

Atrus

Gold Member
The bugs being described make it sound like it's in a state that's slightly worse than an Elder Scrolls game at launch. I'll be buying it this week but I think I might just wait to play it until they patch the experience.

Quest trigger fails, crashes and the T-posing and floating are all problematic when looking for a quality experience. I really hate being frozen out of quest lines due to bugs.

The inventory issue is something CD Projeckt has a problem with but they tend to eventually fix it. The Witcher had the same problems that were fixed in later iterations.
 

Rikkori

Member
Unfortunately, the amount of bugs I’ve experienced really does need to be mentioned. I’ve only been able to play Cyberpunk 2077 on a PC with a GeForce RTX 3080 GPU, and as of writing this I have yet to lay hands on either the PlayStation or Xbox versions, but the issues I’ve encountered were extremely frequent and distracting. Performance on Ultra settings at 1080p with ray tracing off was largely okay for me, as you’d hope would be the absolute bare minimum on a brand-new and still-hard-to-get graphics card, generally only noticeably dropping in framerate while driving around busy areas or in certain weather conditions – but it was the routinely messed up animations, missing models, and glitchy dialogue that really got to me.

PREPARE THE LUBE!
 

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
Maybe CDPR executives are holding emergency meetings at this point.

Somehow the mostly positive previews of the past months have not materialized in stellar scores. I would say this will impact sales, but that's just my prediction based on how TW3 peaked. Beyond the bugs, which no doubt CDPR will address in time and down the road, who knows, maybe, even revamp the whole QA department, here we come to the problem CDPR now faces for the expansions and TW4:

The zeitgeist has changed. A certain brand of left-wing politics is now pervasive .A number of high profile journalists have become outspoken activists. I fear CDPR might be tempted to cave in to get back to the good graces of the media professionals.

And, If I had to take a wild fact-free guess, the release date of Cyberpunk 2077 expansions just got pushed back.

Many of these Activist sites aren't solvent and will hopefully go under in a year or so. Then we can once again focus on enjoying our hobby without having to deal with this crap.
 

MiguelItUp

Member
Much better reviews than I was expecting.

An incredibly ambitious game like this will always have flaws. Can't wait to get into it.

And the talentless woke dildos that just wants a 'My Little Trans Pony' experience can fuck off. Why do Gamespot insist on wheeling out that Plagge clown for these sorts of review?
0.3% of people identify as transgender in America. Why are reviews obsessing over not just a minority, but an extreme minority?
I can't help but feel it's to pander to anyone that would be upset if they didn't, potentially. A lot of those folks happen to be some of THE most verbal ones on Twitter, etc. But really, who knows? I honestly figured people would be happy with trans representation even being present in the game, but somehow those people aren't happy with that and want/demand more.

With all these bugs, I feel it's best to wait until next year to play it. Sounds like we will be playing a very unpolished and incomplete game this week.

I'm sure they have a bunch of updates lined up in their roadmap going into next year.
Eh, I think that may be a tad exaggerated. Witcher 3 was buggy AF at launch, as well as a number of other open-world titles. But a ton of people loved them! I think a person's patience and experience may vary. If you can accept the fact that bugs exist in such a game, I'm sure you'll be fine. If you're going to blow a gasket at minor clipping, tearing, physics, etc. issues, then maybe you should wait until they get buffed out for your own sake, haha.

Edit: After watching a review sounds like there were bugs with AI to the point where they wouldn't respond to the player, lol. So yeah, nothing about crashes that I've read or heard about thus far, so at least there's that. But definitely sounds like some hefty B and C bugs.
 
Last edited:

Denton

Member
Gamereactor wrote very well:

Cyberpunk 2077 is without a doubt a huge and ambitious title. But the big aspirations can not excuse the technical state of the game. There are simply limits to how tolerant one can be towards the game, and relaxing the rating criteria will not be fair to the other developers who have also struggled and dragged with their game this year. It is certainly no exaggeration to say this is the most anticipated title of the year and therefore I will also honestly address its flaws.

Before we begin, however, I just want to make the following clear: the review applies to the PC version, which is technically finished with all content included, and which, despite countless hours in front of the screen, I am not yet fully through. This version also did not include the Day One patch, so I can not say how many bugs will be addressed on the launch date. But what I experienced was unfortunately technically far below level, and I personally would have rather waited a little longer even for a more solid overall package.

Unfortunately, it's the many bugs that gnaw at the game's otherwise solid foundation. I even double-checked that my PC lived up to the recommended hardware requirements, and when it comes to graphics, it is just as impressive as advertised with. And for a game of this size, the graphics are also excellently optimized. But no matter the settings, I did run into a number of issues. Floating weapons. Models that loaded slowly, resulting in cars falling from the sky. Objects that should be in the hand of a character, but are not, or vice versa are glued to the hand permanently. Teleporting enemies. NPCs that either disappear or emerge out of the blue. T-posing characters who belly talk and have not moved since the start of the game. The list of glitches and bugs is everything too long.

A few days ago, I then got access to a 50GB patch, but unfortunately it has not changed much. And it annoys me wildly, because despite all the flaws, Cyberpunk 2077 is one of the best AAA games I've ever played. And it will undoubtedly excite those who have patience and tolerance for its technical problems. But right now the game is just not in very good condition.

One of the best games ever made, but released prematurely. Unless day 1 patch fixes it.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
CDPR is a transphobic company. That will read as being incendiary but there's little else that fits when there's a history spanning years of their disdain, mocking of and disregard for trans identities in their games, conduct and promotions. From the outset I want to make it clear that coming in with "they support LGBT" isn't needed here. It's of no material concern that members of the company go to Pride. The LGBT community isn't some homogenous lump and never has been. Many people within the community and out support the LG&B while holding contempt and dislike for the T. This topic is about that final letter and the way in which this company has repeatedly proven that they hold no regard for us in their output.

All of the below are conscious actions being spoken to. What is also worth highlighting is the lack of action as well. CDPR across these past two years have been in every position, both in knowledge and ability, to extend an olive branch toward the trans community. In among their many delays they had the option to incorporate feedback from the community and haven't. In amongst all of the videos of cars, guns, chrome and gangs they had the opportunity to take the concerns to heart and deep dive into how gender and trans representation is being handled with nuance in CP77. They haven't. This speaks as much to their intent as the elements below, and is worth considering among them.

Nor can any of this be put down to an instance of a well-meaning blunder toward being progressive, which I might buy on a single incident from a small studio. This is a giant international corporation who, had they the intent of being inclusive as a focus of the game, would have managed to avoid any of the below. This – not being repeatedly transphobic – is something that most other major companies manage to avoid. There are trans charities in Poland and many internationally that could have been brought in from the start to consult. This is a company that is content to wave inclusivity around to garner press while committing no legwork or depth of thought toward it.


Context
-

I want to start by giving some grounding to the issue as far too often we have the refrain of "it's just a game" levelled against us. The truth is that the majority of people don't know someone who is openly trans. Have had no known contact with someone that is openly trans and therefore have little direct relation to the issues we face, our lives and our bodies. The majority of information people do receive about us is via the media they consume. The issue here is that trans representation or depiction in media has historically been either through mockery or disgust, and more commonly now – fetishization. We are set dressing for laughs, for being reviled or for pleasure. Frequently reduced down to our genitals and bodies in favour of seeing a person. Due to this, the way media presents us is in direct relation to the abuse, harm and threats we face in life. For more of an understanding around this in relation to film, I recommend the Netflix documentary Disclosure. This issue extends across all media, including games and print. People frequently perceive us through these depictions and when we're presented as little more than a joke, that's what we're taken as.

So if it is 'just a game' to you, consider why it isn't able to be for others. How you can help others enjoy them as just games, and not something they have to question how much mockery or harm they're expected to endure while interacting with them.


Tweets
-

On the 20th August 2018 the official Cyberpunk twitter posted this tweet response:



This initial instance can seem innocuous on the surface but it's a transphobic line conjured around "outrage culture" and the notion that trans people are looking to be offended. Which, naturally, is a common pushback from people that are being offensive and how this joke is usually employed. Trans people don't respond to being misgendered with "did you assume my gender?". In fact most trans people are terrified of even raising the fact that they are being misgendered. Contesting this is something that can frequently put you in harms way and unless you're speaking to an out and out ally it's always a dice roll as to how it will be received. Often it will be through mocking, and this is where the point of transphobic jokes is worth highlighting. It renders our identities as fanciful and frivolous; something to be tolerated instead of accepted. When trans identities aren't taken seriously it directly affects our ability to live as who we are.

There is no distinction between the joke and the transphobia because transphobia has persistently centered itself around the notion that we are a joke.

In response Cyberpunk posted this:



People who have had to deal with bigotry will recognise the all-too-common apology of "sorry to those offended". The apology isn't a recognition that their actions were transphobic nor a statement that trans identities are valid. Instead it appeals to that which we've just mentioned; those that see trans people as people constantly offended by everything. It doesn't offer a recognition that the act itself was the issue, but that it happened to offend some people.

This can be evidenced by the responses, some of which shown below, which are a crowd of fans CDPR has increasingly become conscious of and pander toward:






A couple of months later, on the 22nd October 2018, the twitter account for CDPR's online storefront GOG posted this tweet:



This made light of the hashtag #WontBeErased on Twitter that, at the time, was trending because of a Trump administration memo that proposed a strict definition of gender based on a person’s genitalia at birth. Something that would work toward the erasure of trans identities. Anyone viewing the hashtag would have seen the context in which it sat. This wasn't the first issue the GOG twitter account had had either, with a prior tweet appealing to the same alt-right fanbase by posting a tweet around the death of journalism and Gamergate.

In response, and to their credit, GOG fired the person involved who then went on to work for an alt-right website. However three troubling tweets in almost as many months caused concern around the culture across the two companies, and the tolerance for transphobia in their working environment.


Cyberpunk 2077 Adverts / "It's a Dystopia"
-

In one of the gameplay reveals in June 2019 this poster was spotted on a surface in the game:



It depicts a fetishized caricature of a trans women, complete with over-emphasised erection, the phrase "Mix It Up" and the name of the advertised drink; "Chromanticore". The issue will be apparent to many but I'll break it down so it's clear. First of all you have the character; a fetishized image of a trans woman's body that is only there to highlight the "trans" nature of her. As mentioned in the opening paragraphs this falls into one of the common ways in which transphobia manifests; reducing us down to our genitals for display at the expense of any sense of us as people. "Mix It Up" implies the frivolous nature of being trans as though we pick and choose our gender identity. Again falling victim to another form of transphobia.

Finally we have "Chromanticore" which on a generous read is a mix of "chrome" and "manticore" and at worst "chromosome" and "manticore". Forgiving the ambiguity of the first word the second still becomes inherently insulting. A manticore is a mythical beast comprised of parts of different animals. On a more subtle level it literally means "man eater", where the fear of men being "tricked" into falling for a trans woman resonates – though I highly doubt this specific aspect was part of the thought process, it works to support the fact that we need more trans women working on products that aim to depict us. On the overt and obvious, it's depicting an over-emphasised trans woman while relating her to a beast. Trans people will know all too well the common insults thrown at them in disgust (3 for 3), relating them to being unnatural or monsters.

In response to the criticism raised, CDPR came out with a response that included the following justification:


Which rings hollow in a few ways. The most apparent being that CDPR, themselves a massive corporation, are content to invoke this imagery and defend its use while simultaneously promoting the game as diverse and inclusive. This isn't just true of their use of it in the game, but also their literal use of it in offline events as set dressing and promo material:



Which only compounds the next point that you cannot state that it is terrible and what one is supposed to fight against, while continuing to position it front and center – completely decoupled from that message. It just becomes a transphobic advert being used to promote a game to make money for a massive corporation. In addition, there were cans of the drink available – a drink that is drawing a line to being trans – labelled as poison. One tone deaf incident is forgiven but when multiple elements come together, all transphobic, you start to question how much it's an articulation of issues in society, and how much it's using these things to reinforce a veneer of edge around their product. Appealing to a crowd of people all too content to mock trans people, at the expense of those being targeted.

This also isn't the only advert that comes at the expense of trans bodies either, as we can see below:



With no intent to explain the alleged nuance outside of defending the artwork, it's hard to take it seriously. These are plastered across Night City and seen in most promotional videos that have been put out about the game. No such video or message contextualizing these elements has been given alongside. Instead we have endless reams of how cool everything looks, what the guns are like and what Porsche model will be in the game. As mentioned earlier, if CDPR wanted to clarify these things and extend some consideration toward the trans community around them, they could – and would – have done. As it is, they're content to continue to use this imagery and claim diversity, all while leaving the extent of how much transphobic content will be in the game ambiguous to those trans people interested.

The response of "it's a dystopia it's meant to be bad" holds little weight as well when these things are constantly decoupled from any actual criticism. This is moving past the fact that just because a setting is supposed to be bad doesn't mean we need to lean on transphobia as a means to depict it. There's plenty of other awful things that the game will not invoke or use to facilitate this, and fetishizing and mocking us as the backdrop to it is an easy target. Especially in the knowledge that many fans see zero issue with these things, including Mike Pondsmith himself, so the extent to which that "terrible" message is landing is already minor.


Political Sympathies
-
In among this, it's important to bring the grounding that CDPR operates from a country that's in the midst of a nationwide crackdown on trans people and all those within the LGBTQ+ community. This has garnered worldwide condemnation and even brought into question the IOC's choice of hosting the Olympics there. Townships have declared themselves LGBT-Free and propaganda seeking to exile members of the community is regularly passed around, in some cases even being included with news publications.

In addition to further raising suspicion around the internal culture of CDPR with regard transphobia, it also becomes a direct concern when met against the content being spoken of in the game. In particular because in a recent interview with Paweł Sasko, the Lead Quest Designer on CP77, the politics of staff was mentioned:


Speaking to the importance of representing various political sympathies becomes concerning when you have both the above context and a company, and game, that have pandered to the alt-right and had numerous instances of transphobia. It becomes hard to not draw the line between this disregard of trans people in the game and in the output of the company, with that importance and the political climate of Poland.

If you are interested in learning more about the situation in Poland further information can be found here (1, 2, 3), and you can support directly here.


Character Creator
-



After speaking heavily to how inclusive Cyberpunk 2077 would be, it's been confirmed that the character creator will tie the pronouns the game uses to refer to the character with, with the pitch of voice chosen. Meaning that if you choose a traditionally female body type but select a deeper voice, your character will be referred to as "he" or "him" in the game's dialogue. Voice pitch is a sensitive issue in the trans community and with transition as HRT has no bearing on your voice when transitioning as a trans woman, or toward transfeminine identities. As a direct result it becomes something that many trans people are conscious of when they attempt to pass, as it's an element that works against you when people frequently associate a deep voice to being a man, and a high voice to being a women. This in a very real sense is an issue of safety for trans people offline, as having a deeper voice while presenting femme can result in abuse. However it isn't an immediate black or white picture when it comes to how trans people feel about their voice outside of those issues. Your voice is as personal to you as anything else, and there are many trans people that would prefer to be able to feel comfortable using their real voice as opposed to putting in considerable effort toward changing it in the hope of better acceptance.

So the consequence of the character creator is one that allows for cis people to make a "chick with a dick" a la the controversial poster, at the expense of trans people being able to create characters that represent them. Once again, it seems to highlight the nature of "diversity" when it comes to CP77; that it's commonly aimed toward the cisgender crowd over showing consideration for transgender people and true inclusivity. This hasn't prevented CDPR from lapping up a lot of publicity claiming that it is inclusive though, and in effect having their cake and eating it. Too often we now have cis people come back to us touting this alleged inclusivity and character creator, in the face of our issues with the game.


Official Cosplay Competition
-
Now we have the most recent example of CDPR's disdain for trans people. If you recall the defense for the caricature of the trans woman in the "Chromanticore" poster was that the fetishization of the trans character was to be seen as "terrible". Something CDPR claim to see as something that should be fought against. Which as discussed is already brought into question by their own use of it in offline promos, but is completely blown apart by their choice of finalist in their recent cosplay competition. Not just via social media, but in their official Night City Wire pre-presentation.




I do believe a cisgender woman can cosplay a trans woman, and that there's little issue if it's done respectfully. That isn't the case here though. This isn't a trans character in the game with any given depth, it's an illustration in an advert whose sole purpose is to fetishize the body of a trans woman, where her transness is reduced in full to her genitals and a comparison is drawn to a beast. The only reason it was of any note was because of the controversy surrounding it and the issues trans people had with it, so it's hard not to find the choice suspect in the first place.

What solidifies the problem is when the cisgender woman in question is treating that aspect of the trans woman as a joke; as something to laugh at. Drawing primary attention once again to the genitals and making it the central part of the cosplay. There's no desire to become any character, but instead become a walking mockery of a trans person that was only ever there to begin with as a fetishization. It's not as though cisgender women are de-facto in support of the rights of trans women, so when someone is treating our bodies as something to be laughed over, and is roleplaying us purely to serve for comedic purposes, I find it poor – to put it mildly. It further reinforces us as a joke, and that in itself is transphobic.

This loops back to the advert itself, as mentioned before the justification was that it was intended to be terrible, in addition to:



If it's designed to be a terrible and distasteful advert working at the expense of trans women – something CDPR themselves tells us we should be fighting against – you can't then decouple it from the criticism to use frivolously for laughs or promotional material. Promoting someone taking that imagery, further accenting and highlighting the parts we're supposed to take issue with, all while laughing about it, renders that original intent meaningless. Put bluntly; when you're flying people out to take part in a video shoot for your promo and they're walking around with a fake neon penis representing the thing you claim to hate, how can we take any notion of nuance around trans people, issues and bodies seriously within both CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077?


CDPR are content to exploit both their workers and trans people for financial gain, alongside courting an obvious and loud alt-right fanbase.
-
They are a transphobic company content to lean on inclusivity as a promotional tool at the expense of trans people. Consistently treating us with ridicule and afterthought while claiming the opposite. They are happy to foster a toxic work environment grinding their workers to the bone. They are happy to lean into the chud fanbase they know they've garnered over the years.

It is obvious they don't care about us, but they still care about the fans that stick with them regardless. So it is in this that I ask that even if you're hyped to jump into Night City, you become vocal about these issues and offer support in bringing their attention to CDPR. Whether it's here, on Twitter or in feedback forms – letting them know that you're a fan but you dislike the way they have acted toward the trans community is of value. If you aren't willing to be critical of a company you like while enjoying their product, at the expense of trans voices, then – insofar as I'm concerned – you can't consider yourself a trans ally. If that stings, it should, because it means that you're aware that you allow your excitement of a game prevent you from supporting the communities it takes advantage of.

What's often missing from the retorts is that I was once hyped for the game. The logo treatment reveal was stunning, the art direction posters were a lock for purchase. It looked great. However when it becomes a question of how much transphobic content I'll be expected to put up with as I attempt to enjoy the game, it's hard to remain enthused by it. It becomes a question of why I'm supporting a company that's repeatedly showing they're content to mock people like me, and perpetuate stereotypes that affect us offline in life. That continue the lines of thought that place our lives in danger and our respect in question.

This isn't some "rah rah boycott" motion that people like to distill it down to. It's what it feels like when you face a company and product that comes at the expense of you and others like you. If you don't know what that feels like, consider how fortunate it is that you get to engage with this medium without such a concern. Perhaps become more active in lending your voice toward choruses like this, so that we too can enjoy games without it. If there's one thing I'm sure of it's that both CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 have the ability to be great without being transphobic.

giphy.gif
d53v8j8-6e8eb57a-b6dd-4c76-8b84-245275c6b854.gif

Always the best way to get a point across is to

*checks notes*

write a huge wall of text that most people don't have the time or inclination to read.

Well done cupcake!
 
I am still super hyped for the game but I am now wondering if I should just hold off on the game for a bit. Of course I expected bugs but how many are there realistically? Are we talking Bethesda level of bugs or what?
 

CloudNull

Banned
Gamereactor wrote very well:



One of the best games ever made, but released prematurely. Unless day 1 patch fixes it.
Glad he is upfront about not having a day one patch. The patch is supposed to be massive so the fact it is reviewing this well already has got me excited.
 

Bergoglio

Member
that is because they are opressed. if they weren't opressed like 65% of people would identify as trasngender

More like abnormal people with childhood and existential trauma. They are subject to the ideology they have married and are no longer able to get out of it. They ruin everything they touch.
 
Last edited:
Grab your snacks boyos, the freaks have made a thread:

 
This is all excellent to read (negative reviews are just fine...relax) and I’m excited to play the game...eventually. I feel even better with my decision to wait until things are patched up to delve into this latest blockbuster gaming experience. It had been my intent to wait until the Series X gets it’s upgraded version, but these reviews are actually more positive than I was expecting so I could see myself breaking down and buying this in January or February.
 

MadYarpen

Member
All is fine, except the bugs... And this shit, from IGN:

Unfortunately, the amount of bugs I’ve experienced really does need to be mentioned. I’ve only been able to play Cyberpunk 2077 on a PC with a GeForce RTX 3080 GPU, and as of writing this I have yet to lay hands on either the PlayStation or Xbox versions, but the issues I’ve encountered were extremely frequent and distracting. Performance on Ultra settings at 1080p with ray tracing off was largely okay for me, as you’d hope would be the absolute bare minimum on a brand-new and still-hard-to-get graphics card, generally only noticeably dropping in framerate while driving around busy areas or in certain weather conditions – but it was the routinely messed up animations, missing models, and glitchy dialogue that really got to me.

I mean, what the hell?
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Im waiting to hear how woke this game is and if people rip it apart like they did the TLOU2....
Main campaign sounds short
 

imsosleepy

Member
From the Polygon review:



See? They will never be happy. No matter what you do, it will never be enough for them.

Stop pandering to the mentally ill people.

haha geezus christ... can we just reset the world and go into a ice age please.. What the fuck have trans people to do with a fucking video game..
And the worst part is the review is done by a trans person and all that person does is complain about trans shit.
 

Kuranghi

Member
...

The ads are one of many, many aesthetic choices in Cyberpunk 2077 that are grating with no real point. There's one ad in particular that was the topic of much discussion pre-release; it features a feminine person with a giant, exaggerated, veiny erection in their leotard and advertises a drink called Chromanticore with the tagline "mix it up." It is everywhere. And while the "purpose" of it may be to show what a sex-obsessed, superficial, exploitative place Night City is, there's nothing in the main story or any of the side quests I did that gives it even that much context--I found just one message on one of the many computers I logged into that commented on how low-brow Night City culture is. The result is that there's a fetishization of trans people at every turn, in a game with only one very minor trans character (that I found, at least) and no way to play as an authentically trans character yourself.

tenor.gif

The hilarious thing is, I interpreted it like everyone genuinely doesnt give a fuck about what people do with their bodies or who the sleep with, etc, in this future. Do they not realise if there was no shame/judgement of fetishes and sexual preferences that a fucking sex worker district would be pretty crude lol.

These "neo-trans" people seem to want to scream to high heaven about how different they are and constantly imply "NOTICE ME" by their actions, but when you have a future where everyone is saying "Yeah give a big veiny <insert genital type> and I don't care who knows it... hey you passerby! Wanna join in this street fuck session with me and my pals?!??", they are like:

"WHOA WHOA, this is trivalising these things!!!"

What THE actual FUCK do they want, to be the most out-there and future facing people with regards to sex and sexuality and everyone else totally respects that BUT everyone can't become like them because that would be bad, for some reason? (Ofc we know the answer is that they wouldn't be special anymore so they hate it)

Just fucking liiiiiive your liiiiife without fucking worrying about what others think you absolute bellends. If someone says they don't agree with what you are saying, then take it on the chin and be the bigger folx.
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
Some bits taken from the GamesRadar+ Review


As I mentioned in my preview, while Cyberpunk 2077 offers up the more traditional dialogue choices, it also comes the closest to mimicking human interaction. No longer do you need to "press X to interact" with someone, just go up to them and start talking. You can choose to pick up on something else that's happening in the room mid-conversation if you want, speak to someone else for a bit, or simply just walk away. The choices you make may not always cause the story to divert dramatically, but you'll never quite know how far-reaching your decisions are until you've made them.
...
Even after 50+ hours with Cyberpunk 2077, which includes seeing my first ending and completing all the main side quests, I still feel like I have plenty to see in Night City. Gigs still litter the map, fixers still call me for help, and I've not even started my car collection yet.
...
The only bugs I've encountered to date have mostly been visual - like missing vehicles, floating weapons, or random stuck menu bars - and have been easily fixed with a quick save and reload.
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
All is fine, except the bugs... And this shit, from IGN:

Unfortunately, the amount of bugs I’ve experienced really does need to be mentioned. I’ve only been able to play Cyberpunk 2077 on a PC with a GeForce RTX 3080 GPU, and as of writing this I have yet to lay hands on either the PlayStation or Xbox versions, but the issues I’ve encountered were extremely frequent and distracting. Performance on Ultra settings at 1080p with ray tracing off was largely okay for me, as you’d hope would be the absolute bare minimum on a brand-new and still-hard-to-get graphics card, generally only noticeably dropping in framerate while driving around busy areas or in certain weather conditions – but it was the routinely messed up animations, missing models, and glitchy dialogue that really got to me.

I mean, what the hell?
If they didn't have time to squash all the bugs it's probably that they didn't have time to optimize it properly I guess.
 
Maybe CDPR executives are holding emergency meetings at this point.

Somehow the mostly positive previews of the past months have not materialized in stellar scores. I would say this will impact sales, but that's just my prediction based on how TW3 peaked. Beyond the bugs, which no doubt CDPR will address in time and down the road, who knows, maybe, even revamp the whole QA department, here we come to the problem CDPR now faces for the expansions and TW4:

The zeitgeist has changed. A certain brand of left-wing politics is now pervasive .A number of high profile journalists have become outspoken activists. I fear CDPR might be tempted to cave in to get back to the good graces of the media professionals.

And, If I had to take a wild fact-free guess, the release date of Cyberpunk 2077 expansions just got pushed back.
You just wholly fabricated some vast conspiracy filled with secretive corporate meetings and roadmap pivots based on your interpretation of 1 or 2 reviews and the paper tiger 'left' that's surely ruining EVERYTHING in your life.

I'm sure the CDPR execs are panicking at their 90 on MC and 91 on OC.
 
Last edited:
Nothing about this game ever looked special to me. I'm not buying these 10/10 scores either based on the technical issues I've seen out of it. Those are just people that are blinded by hype for it. There are no console impressions either and the footage I've seen of that hasn't looked great. That's exactly why they didn't give console codes out yet. They wanted their 90 metacritic rating and knew they wouldn't get it with console impressions out there.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Grab your snacks boyos, the freaks have made a thread:


and they have locked said thread already. lol

Edit: Oh wait. No....they allow reviews that bitch about transphobia. The *actual* review thread was locked:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/cyberpunk-2077-reviews-impressions-thread.339952/

You shall have no opinions other than approved opinions
 
Last edited:

Astorian

Member
IMHO the bugs I've seen warrant more scrutiny than a 4/5 allows. I mean, I'm all for something like "2/5 and we will change our score once developers fix major cutscene bugs." Imagine watching the latest Marvel movie and the action scene suddenly goes 15FPS low poly, or all the stuntmen look completely wrong. Games release half finished and half debugged BECAUSE we accept this level of bullshit.
Yep, no matter how good a game is, releasing a buggy mess shouldn’t be fine, Fallout 76 wasn’t that long ago and that game got destroyed.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom