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[THE:MILKMAN]

It's just fucking plan naughty, i mean i can not understand how people can not see this.

If its true and from what we can see, the evidence is right in front of them, you can't advertise one thing and then sell something else that is hidden away up some plates and screws.

I get there is console wars but GTFO out of here xbox people for defending this, this is surely against the law, you can surely get in shit for something like this.

Maybe this is ok for America or something, fuck knows what the standards are like over there, but in the UK and eu this is looking for a lot of trouble.

They don't stand for this type of shit.

Just advertise the right equipment with the right specs, its not hard.

To be fair it is only on the support page FAQ's it states it being a Gen4 SSD, the main specs listed on Xbox site just say it is a custom SSD. If they do anything it will be to edit the support page wording.

 

[sircaw]

To be fair it is only on the support page FAQ's it states it being a Gen4 SSD, the main specs listed on Xbox site just say it is a custom SSD. If they do anything it will be to edit the support page wording.

It just surprises me that Microsoft of all companies can get simple stuff like this wrong.I agree, it's a simple fix, but problems like this should not be there, this is not Dellboys Acme electronics we are talking about with me as the floor salesman running things.

Sort it out ffs Microsoft, your not a tin pot fucking company running out of china.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Technically just a CGI rendition, however they were always using technically accurate graphic for this...Seemingly dis does not seems like it's using much lanes:

In the hot chips they mentioned 2x PCIe lanes.

 

[M1chl]

In the hot chips they mentioned 2x PCIe lanes.

Oh then you really might be onto something, detective Bo : )

 

[Black_Stride]

What's the differences?
I mean...differences that you see with the eyes if you have two ssd in your hands

With your eyes? Unless you can see the actual SSD controller then you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between them.
If you could see the controller you would be able to know what PCIE gen it is.

I didnt catch the video does anyone have a screen grab of the Controller side of the SSD, is it possible to see what controller is being used?
Possibly they used the WD drives because they are the same drives they use in their Surface Laptops but put the Phison E19 on the PCB?....just spit balling here.

They will have to give a statement cuz yeah they have advertised PCIE4 internal SSD everywhere.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It came from this slide at hot chips

I’m just curious now how this all fits together...

Not being in any way an SSD aficionado I can’t say what the impact of that might be.

I do wonder if it’s something as simple as 2 Gen4 lanes being the equivalent of 4 gen 3 lanes though so the net loading speed is the same for internal and external.

Ohh, yeah I think that's what's going on, PCI-e 4.0 laptops right now like on Tiger Lake have fewer lanes than the previous 3.0 ones, so what they do is use two 4.0 lanes to talk to 4 3.0 lanes. It doesn't make the drive magically PCI-e 4.0 obviously, but that's how they negotiate the bandwidth.

The drive controller just thinks its sending 4x 3.0, the host deals with it by assigning two 3.0 lanes to one 4.0 lane.

 

[nikolino840]

With your eyes? Unless you can see the actual SSD controller then you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between them.
If you could see the controller you would be able to know what PCIE gen it is.

I didnt catch the video does anyone have a screen grab of the Controller side of the SSD, is it possible to see what controller is being used?
Possibly they used the WD drives because they are the same drives they use in their Surface Laptops but put the Phison E19 on the PCB?....just spit balling here.

They will have to give a statement cuz yeah they have advertised PCIE4 internal SSD everywhere.

There's the photos..

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Oh then you really might be onto something, detective Bo : )

Seagate has revealed that Microsoft’s next-gen Xbox Series X console will use a storage expansion based on PCIe 4.0 x2. The company has launched the product page for the 1TB expansion cards which reveals a bit of what to expect from the console’s storage.

It appears that the expanded memory will be as fast as the internal drive. The XSX will feature storage speeds of 2.4 GB/s and considering that the external storage will leverage two PCIe Gen4 lanes, it should be able to maintain the same bandwidth. In fact, you can achieve the same speeds using the older PCIe 3.0 interface as well.

Xbox Series X Storage Expansion will use PCIe 4.0 x2, Seagate Reveals | Hardware Times

Seagate has revealed that Microsoft’s next-gen Xbox Series X console will use a storage expansion based on PCIe 4.0 x2. The company has launched the product page for the 1TB expansion cards which reveals a bit of what to expect from the console’s storage. It appears that the expanded memory will...

www.hardwaretimes.com

 

[MCplayer]

Speed matches, size matches, and controller is Gen4. Whats the problem?

there's no problem, they are just trying to give MS a random discussion lol

 

[FrankWza]

the difference between 3.0 and 4.0 is big but not ... significant?
I use 3.0 drive on 4.0 motherboard and get 3,5gb speed. 4.0 drives are marketed 5gb

So about 40%?

 

[BigLee74]

Edit... Forgot to quote!

But the general gist was aimed at all the vocal as fuck Sony regulars (they know who they are) who swoop on these threads like tramps on a sandwich.

'are you buying an xbox?'

'are you going to contact some lawyers and get this party going?'

 

[ReBurn]

Yes, because they were still prototype units with explicit notification that while close they do not represent the final units.

This explains a lot around the loading times being better in retail units than the prototype testing that's been done previously.

I doubt that Microsoft would send out units for review and evaluation that are inferior to production units. They're going to want the best representation they can get.

 

[Connxtion]

With your eyes? Unless you can see the actual SSD controller then you wouldnt be able to tell the difference between them.
If you could see the controller you would be able to know what PCIE gen it is.

I didnt catch the video does anyone have a screen grab of the Controller side of the SSD, is it possible to see what controller is being used?
Possibly they used the WD drives because they are the same drives they use in their Surface Laptops but put the Phison E19 on the PCB?....just spit balling here.

They will have to give a statement cuz yeah they have advertised PCIE4 internal SSD everywhere.

From the spawn wave video.

Edit: why does attaching images never work

 

[Hendrick's]

It's just fucking plan naughty, i mean i can not understand how people can not see this.

If its true and from what we can see, the evidence is right in front of them, you can't advertise one thing and then sell something else that is hidden away up some plates and screws.

I get there is console wars but GTFO out of here xbox people for defending this, this is surely against the law, you can surely get in shit for something like this.

Maybe this is ok for America or something, fuck knows what the standards are like over there, but in the UK and eu this is looking for a lot of trouble.

They don't stand for this type of shit.

Just advertise the right equipment with the right specs, its not hard.

You keep claiming they lied but can offer zero evidence. Please enlighten us, what did they claim and what is your evidence that that claim is false?

 

[Black_Stride]

From the spawn wave video.

Edit: why does attaching images never work

Thanks.

Yup that looks like a stock WD SSD.
No controller trickery on the physical drive atleast.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Typical Microsoft marketing disingenous language.

They have:
- PCIe 4.0 controller
- PCIe 3.0 SSD, 2400 MB/s read, 1750 MB/s write.

Their official Statement:

- PCIe 4.0 I/O, SSD, 2400 MB/s speed.

 

[Coolwhhip]

And yet still loads games faster then a ps5, real kick in the nards huh?

What I think of when I see console warrior posts like this

 

[nikolino840]

Thanks.

Yup that looks like a stock WD SSD.
No controller trickery on the physical drive atleast.

So where i have to look at?
Looked on Google and found only that the difference that gen3 have 8 lanes and gen4 16 lanes...so the guy have looked that have 8 lanes...i want to look too...

 

[N30RYU]

there's no problem, they are just trying to give MS a random discussion lol

At least they aren't discussing about not having games at launch...

Seriously... it doesn't matter if multiplatforms load as fast or faster than on PS5

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Isn't this illegal?

Yeah man, you should sue them Bo!

Please we should not focus this thread on PS5 vs XSX loading as the truth will be unveiled soon.

We need to focus on the false advertising that seems to be happening before our very eyes!

But you're not concerned that PS5 advertises 8K on the box but doesn't even support it?



I timestamped it for you. Let's see your fake outrage now.

Edit: Just so you're all aware, Blue didn't reply as expected.

 

[saintjules]

 

[Hendrick's]

But you're not concerned that PS5 advertises 8K on the box but doesn't even support it?

Obviously he is only concerned about the console he will never buy.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Obviously he is only concerned about the console he will never buy.

Just wait until the XSX games start outperforming the PS5 versions, the meltdowns will be real.

 

[Hendrick's]

Just wait until the XSX games start outperforming the PS5 versions, the meltdowns will be real.

They are already. These guys spend more time making threads and posts to shit on Xbox than the console they worship. It's sad, but also hilarious.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

They are already. These guys spend more time making threads and posts to shit on Xbox than the console they worship. It's sad, but also hilarious.

Yeah honestly, it's the one thing that puts me off this forum. I understand giving Xbox flack when it's deserved but the amount of unfounded bullshit that gets peddled is just sad.

 

[iHaunter]

They're using a PCIe4 controller and a PCIe3 NVMe. I don't see an issue, they probably could not hit the $500 mark if they did. That's why Sony went with less TFLOPs because PCIe4 NVMes are still new and super expensive right now.

 

[FrankWza]

But you're not concerned that PS5 advertises 8K on the box but doesn't even support it?

Dont both consoles advertise 8k on the box?

 

[Blue Spring]

Because it's not the Gen they said it is

Wow so they blatantly lied?

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Yeah man, you should sue them Bo!



But you're not concerned that PS5 advertises 8K on the box but doesn't even support it?



I timestamped it for you. Let's see your fake outrage now.

Sony can update the firmware. But MS can't update their false advertised SSD in your system.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Dont both consoles advertise 8k on the box?

Yes, and both consoles are capable of outputting 8K. So his analogy didn’t make sense as there is nothing false about that advertising.

 

[LazyParrot]

Wasn't that already known? Not the exact model, but that it would be limited to PCIe 3.0 speeds. No point in using a PCIe 4.0 drive if you're only giving it 2 lanes.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

Yes, and both consoles are capable of outputting 8K. So his analogy didn’t make sense as there is nothing false about that advertising.

Interesting, because I swear in that new DF video, they said that 8K is not supported at launch.

 

[sircaw]

Wow so they blatantly lied?

if the SSD in the disassembled box is what is being stated, yes.

I mean if you bought a Nvidia 3090 and they shipped a 3060 in the box instead, once you opened it up, how happy would you be.

Don't put different parts in the machine and then state something otherwise on the packaging.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Interesting, because I swear in that new DF video, they said that 8K is not supported at launch.

At launch maybe. Doesn’t mean the console isn’t capable of it, which it is, just whenever they decide to enable the functionality.

 

[Blue Spring]

if the SSD in the disassembled box is what is being stated, yes.

I mean if you bought a Nvidia 3090 and they shipped a 3060 in the box instead, once you opened it up, how happy would you be.

Don't put different parts in the machine and then state something otherwise on the packaging.

Not very happy indeed.

 

[Ascend]

Technically just a CGI rendition, however they were always using technically accurate graphic for this...Seemingly dis does not seems like it's using much lanes:

Exactly. It's a PCIe 4.0 connection, which is split for the internal SSD and the SSD module.

 

[Warnen]

So where are these Xbox Series X games that load in 2 seconds because I seen PS5 games load in 2 seconds

read my post I didn’t say all games I said games as in many. Don’t get so butt hurt that the magic Sony SSD doesn’t instantly make all games load faster like many claimed.

Now stuff has to be optimized. That goal post keeps slipping further and further back.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

At launch maybe. Doesn’t mean the console isn’t capable of it, which it is, just whenever they decide to enable the functionality.

Yes, that's a hardware-software difference compared to SSD situation with XSX but it's still bullshit.

 

[Demon2blades]

They are already. These guys spend more time making threads and posts to shit on Xbox than the console they worship. It's sad, but also hilarious.

Next gen games are outperforming Thier ps5 counterparts ? I thought only bC games had been compared thus far ?

 

[M1chl]

Exactly. It's a PCIe 4.0 connection, which is split for the internal SSD and the SSD module.

Bo_Hazem was right about that hotchips presentation, where it's state that it only uses 2 lanes, so technically it's full PCIE 4 2x but it's split(ed). I probably saying the same thing.... : D

 

[DynamiteCop!]

The concern around here is laughable, this "OEM" drive whatever it may be is outstripping Sony's drive so far from everything that's been tested... So... Concern away...

 

[TBiddy]

if the SSD in the disassembled box is what is being stated, yes.

I mean if you bought a Nvidia 3090 and they shipped a 3060 in the box instead, once you opened it up, how happy would you be.

Don't put different parts in the machine and then state something otherwise on the packaging.

What an odd metaphor. It doesn't work that way.

Assuming all of this is correct, a more fitting one would be, that Alienware shipped a PC with a "Gen10 GPU from nVidia" with a promise of "10 TFLOPS" (numbers are examples), while in reality the GPU is a Gen9 connected via a Gen10 controller, delivering the promised 10 TFLOPS.

 

[onQ123]

read my post I didn’t say all games I said games as in many. Don’t get so butt hurt that the magic Sony SSD doesn’t instantly make all games load faster like many claimed.

Now stuff has to be optimized. That goal post keeps slipping further and further back.

Where do you see anyone getting butt hurt besides you? you said it was loading games faster than PS5 as if it was loading games faster than PS5 when really it's just older games not built with SSDs in mind loading faster.

 

[Hendrick's]

Next gen games are outperforming Thier ps5 counterparts ? I thought only bC games had been compared thus far ?

Isn't that curious? Just wait to see how the whole SSD narrative is a wash.

 

[sircaw]

Yeah honestly, it's the one thing that puts me off this forum. I understand giving Xbox flack when it's deserved but the amount of unfounded bullshit that gets peddled is just sad.

The problem with you is Microsoft can do no wrong, this case is a prime example of that, instead of you just agreeing and saying yer they should not have done that, you play the victim card and defend their behavior for some reason.

Then you break off into another tangent saying just wait till xbox games start outperforming sony ones, WTF has this got to do with this thread. What your doing there is trying to start a war because you're not getting your own way in this thread.

Just stop it, dude.

Would be upset if you took apart your machine and found a zen one cpu instead of a two, or would you say, that's ok its just people attacking poor old Microsoft again.

Don't advertise something and put something else in the box, it ain't hard to fathom.

Stop defending this kinda stuff.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Incoming affordable external storage from AliExpress.

 

[oldergamer]

It's just another long line of bullshit that Microsoft says and does that makes them come out as either not knowing what they are doing or rather they seem dishonest.

If you fall for it then that's great for you.

I don't.

And we are done here.

You are full of crap man. You claim to have a grievance but dont have a way to justify it. Nothing has changed here outside of possibly higher bandwidth the anyone was expecting.

You seem to want desperately to win a war of paper specs. If you think paper specs make you enjoy your plastic box more, then that is rather pathetic.

 

[sircaw]

What an odd metaphor. It doesn't work that way.

Assuming all of this is correct, a more fitting one would be, that Alienware shipped a PC with a "Gen10 GPU from nVidia" with a promise of "10 TFLOPS" (numbers are examples), while in reality the GPU is a Gen9 connected via a Gen10 controller, delivering the promised 10 TFLOPS.

the principle works the same, dont advertise something as if then ship it to people without informing them or updating the technical information for said product.

You know its wrong if they do that, i am very sure of that.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

The problem with you is Microsoft can do no wrong, this case is a prime example of that, instead of you just agreeing and saying yer they should not have done that, you play the victim card and defend their behavior for some reason.

Then you break off into another tangent saying just wait till xbox games start outperforming sony ones, WTF has this got to do with this thread. What your doing there is trying to start a war because you're not getting your own way in this thread.

Just stop it, dude.

Would be upset if you took apart your machine and found a zen one cpu instead of a two, or would you say, that's ok its just people attacking poor old Microsoft again.

Don't advertise something and put something else in the box, it ain't hard to fathom.

Stop defending this kinda stuff.

Are you having a meltdown or something? You'll be DM'ing me again soon i bet.

 

[Demon2blades]

Isn't that curious? Just wait to see how the whole SSD narrative is a wash.

Well my point is wouldn't it be better to wait for the results mate instead of bringing feelings into the conversation instead of facts you can't have a discussion on here these days without that fanboy crap the thread is about Xbox series X not the ps5 performance same goes for the warriors from the other side it's mental .....

Ontopic if they lied they lied and it won't go unnoticed .