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[Gormless Noodle]

Seeing how they had the ad ready, this was clearly some galaxy brained, Tim Sweeny level marketing stunt, but if Apple actually cuts them off long term then I believe Epic will get a whole lot more than they bargained for. Maybe they'll include getting back access in the settlement for the lawsuit and not ask for anything else, but that's one hell of an expensive gamble if it backfires.

 

[VincentMatts]

Were about to see how serious Epic are at fighting this fight. Dont forget, they got banned by Apple and Google store. So theyre off mobile completely.

 

[Zog]

The PS5 and the Xbox are not general purpose computers important to the fabric of society and our economy. Many people ONLY have smart phones at this point and they run their lives on them. You can do your banking, your communications, your entertainment, ANYTHING you want on these devices because they are general purpose computers.

Man this thinking is absurd. Clearly not EVERY device needs to be an open platform. That's not even tenable. It has to do with the prominence these devices have in our lives.

Microsoft was clobbered by the government for including Internet Explorer in Windows in the late 90s! That was considered anti-competitive behavior. How have we gotten to this point where giant mega corps can dictate even what software can exist on their devices when there are far more mobile devices now in the world than windows machines?

Mobile devices are now FAR more important to "humanity" than Windows machines. And people here think complete control of what we actually do with them should lie in the hands of two companies? Video game consoles aren't even close to being in the same stratosphere. It's one of the dumbest comparisons and arguments you can make.

I disagree.

Companies SHOULD have a right to protect their platform from unwanted software.

 

[Mato]

Wow, holy crap. How long till the Chinese start pushing hard an alternative mobile OS? it's got to happen eventually.

 

[VincentMatts]

I disagree.

Companies SHOULD have a right to protect their platform from unwanted software.

I wonder if Apple are still gonna play those "whats a computer" commercials anymore.





You cant have it both ways. Youre either a PC replacement, or youre not. In this situation, they cant have it both ways.

And hes right, ios is a multipurpose OS, not a console. It has no right to be completely closed off.

 

[Zog]

Wow, holy crap. How long till the Chinese start pushing hard an alternative mobile OS? it's got to happen eventually.

...and when they do they will curate their digital stores too.

 

[Dr Bass]

Do some of yall realize that this is actual anti-consumerism happening in front of us? Like.....some of you call Sony anti-consumer (it isn't), yet yall rooting for Apple here?

It is shocking how ignorant people are in regards to this issue. There is a complete misunderstanding of what the lawsuit is about (of course they could try just reading the briefing). They think Epic just doesn't like a 30% fee and doesn't want to pay these fees anywhere, when if you knew anything about computing (again, if you're not in the computing world then you need to either do a little research on this topic or not opine) you would know this is about the freedom of platforms. Can you imagine if Linus Torvalds had the ability to suddenly "lock down" Linux and decide which software was allowed on Linux and that he was going to take a cut of all the money that was transferred because of its use? He would instantly become the most wealthy and powerful person on the planet and the entire world economy would collapse. Cheering on Apple is literally insane in this instance.

 

[thief183]

If the ppl around me represent the normies state of mind, Apple is gonna loose a lot of sellswith this move.... all the kids are now looking at the next samsung cause Apple is Evil, and I can't be more happy. Fuck Apple.

 

[thief183]

...and when they do they will curate their digital stores too.

On the huawei phone without google you can instll whatever store you want, or just apk. they got nothing locked, also you can contact them to hav a key to root your phone (for now at least)

 

[EverydayBeast]

Apples biggest strength is there apps this doesn’t fit their business code

 

[Dr Bass]

I disagree.

Companies SHOULD have a right to protect their platform from unwanted software.

I'm glad you don't run any major computer companies then. You would also be laughed out of any academic or professional software setting. Well, maybe not Apple. I'm not trying to be mean but you clearly have no experience in this field and no understanding of the importance of being able to run whatever software you want.

You know, there is a reason Epic chose to use the 1984 commercial to make their point. The whole point of that 1984 ad was calling out IBM and saying should one company be able to decide what happens with computing and what we do with our computers? Apple was going to be the one to bust that up with the Macintosh, introduce computing freedom for the users etc, etc. I mean the irony is ridiculous.

Here is another question for everyone who thinks Apple is in the right:

The iPod didn't truly take off until iTunes was made available on Windows. This opened up that hardware to a vastly larger market and Apple was the sole and complete beneficiary of that move. Microsoft made zeroooooooo on that. Windows was the platform that made it happen though. Should Microsoft have received 30% of all iTunes transactions made on Windows back then? Should they be able to claim that now?

 

[Ogbert]

To be honest, Epic are such an odd company, I wouldn’t even be surprised if they created this fuss on purpose, will happily swallow the loss, just to create this rift in public minds.

They’re a strange bunch.

 

[VincentMatts]

If the ppl around me represent the normies state of mind, Apple is gonna loose a lot of sellswith this move.... all the kids are now looking at the next samsung cause Apple is Evil, and I can't be more happy. Fuck Apple.

The problem, is that most of apples customers wont care. Especially the more casual ones. They buy apple cause it looks cool, not cause its actually impressive.

 

[Zog]

And hes right, ios is a multipurpose OS, not a console. It has no right to be completely closed off.

Help me understand, what kind of computing is the PS4 not capable of?

Is it capable of running streaming apps, office software,. an internet browser, games, etc...?

A game console is a also a computer and if written for it, it can run a spreadsheet, Quicken, Firefox and so on. That software isn't on the PS4 because Sony doesn't allow it to be.

 

[DeepEnigma]

And hes right, ios is a multipurpose OS, not a console. It has no right to be completely closed off.

Can you get an iOS license on any "PC" box you build like you can Windows?

(rhetorical)

 

[jshackles]

If the ppl around me represent the normies state of mind, Apple is gonna loose a lot of sellswith this move.... all the kids are now looking at the next samsung cause Apple is Evil, and I can't be more happy. Fuck Apple.

True, lots of kids going to be growing up now with the "fuck apple" mentality.

 

[CobraAB]

Off to Android and side loading.

 

[Newly Vacant]

It's time for Epic to release a rebranded Xiaomi phone with Fortnight pre-installed. Fork Android and go for it.

 

[Endless Fluff]

And hes right, ios is a multipurpose OS, not a console. It has no right to be completely closed off.

If you don't like it, then there is an alternative: Android.

People who buy an Apple product tend to prefer the walled garden experience and Apple has every right to limit access. They develop the OS and also devices and you only get their software on their devices. It's not like Windows, Android or other software that have dozens of manufacturers for different devices behind them. What apple does is pretty much comparable to consoles.

/edit
grammar

 

[thief183]

The problem, is that most of apples customers wont care. Especially the more casual ones. They buy apple cause it looks cool, not cause its actually impressive.

I think you are underestimating the popularity of Fortnite, all the kids from 9 to 14 are playing it and most of them use Iphone (at least in central Italy), now they can't anymre and they are pissed.

 

[CobraAB]

Oh, and don’t mess with the Apple Overlords. Being nasty towards Apple will not be tolerated.

 

[Zog]

If you don't like it, then there is an alternative: Android.

People who buy an Apple product tend to prefer the walled garden experience and Apple has every right to limit access. They develop the OS and also devices and you only get their software on their devices. It's not like Windows, Android or other Software that have dozens of Manufacturers for different devices behind them. What apple does is pretty much comparable to consoles.

See that's the way I see it. You don't like Apple, go to Android, you can side load there.

It's also true that some people manage to get through modern life without a smartphone, it isn't required.

 

[VincentMatts]

Can you get an iOS license on any "PC" box you build like you can Windows?

(rhetorical)

You cant license Mac OS either. But Apples Mac OS computers arent limiting like the iOS is though. It also doesnt force you though their store for everything and doesnt charge 30%. Its very much like windows in that sense.

Its gonna be interesting to see how that evolves now that they're "migrating" ios with macbooks more and more.

Like i said, you cant have it both ways.

 

[Warnen]

Did epic push this update with other payment options to Xbox/playstation/switch yet?

edit:

looked it up weird...

You can get vbucks on those platforms for the cheaper price but they still use the normal payment system. So it’s ok for consoles to get a cut but not google and apple.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You cant license Mac OS either. But Apples Mac OS computers arent limiting like the iOS is though. It also doesnt force you though their store for everything and doesnt charge 30%. Its very much like windows in that sense.

Its gonna be interesting to see how that evolves now that they're "migrating" ios with macbooks more and more.

Like i said, you cant have it both ways.

 

[nowhat]

You cant have it both ways. Youre either a PC replacement, or youre not. In this situation, they cant have it both ways.

O RLY?

 

[GhostOfTsu]

I don't see the issue with walled gardens on consoles and mobiles? People really think that buying games on Epic Store instead of Eshop, PSN or iOS store is better for the consumer somehow? I think it would just create a big confusing mess like on PC where you have to shop around on key sites to get the best deal. PSN sales are actually very cheap already and they have no competition.

It reminds me of that Geohot nonsense when GAF gave him thousands of dollars to fight against Sony for Linux. They thought they were fighting for consumers back then too. Linux was useless and Epic store too.

 

[MaulerX]

They both suck. Put them in a cage together to fight. And hopefully none will come out.

 

[The Alien]

Maybe i don't know the full scoop on everything going on but.....

On the surface, I'd say Apple is right.

However, to me, Apple shouldn't push the envelope. If they continue to be the Apple douchebags that they always have been, they'll push it to court (which is always risky) and then Epic can push for disclosure (which Apple won't want).

Since their iPhones are federally regulated (FCC) and are tied to their store, the government can easily argue monopoly on their store.

So Apple can put on a brave face, but this could be problems.

 

[BeardGawd]

Step 1: Epic needs to partner with all the major Android Phone brands. Get the Epic store pre-installed on HTC, Samsung, Huawei, Amazon, etc...

Step 2: build up their mobile games catalog for the store with all the Unreal developed games. Only charge 12% like PC.

This could be a real boon for the Android games market vs iOS games market. Hell I’m already seriously considering switching from iPhone due to Game Pass.

 

[Castro27]

If you don't like it, then there is an alternative: Android.

People who buy an Apple product tend to prefer the walled garden experience and Apple has every right to limit access. They develop the OS and also devices and you only get their software on their devices. It's not like Windows, Android or other software that have dozens of manufacturers for different devices behind them. What apple does is pretty much comparable to consoles.

/edit
grammar

The thing I dont understand is why Corporations have the "right" to dictate what someone can or cannot do with a product they bought. As far as I am concearned if I bought an Iphone, or whatever product for that matter, I should own not only the hardware but the software in that specific unit and as such I should have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it. Regarding the Epic vs Apple I have o issues with fortnite being removed from the appstore, thei broke apple's rules and I'm fine with that. But thereal bullshit here is the lack of options outside appstore to install an app. Man I'd love to see the EU growing a pair and forcing that on apple.

 

[Javthusiast]

I played a lot of Fortnite, had fun. Epic gives me a lot of free games...cool, still didn't play a single one of them.

Have used Ipads now almost daily for 8 years or more.

Yeah I'm with Apple. Dunk on them for all I care, lmao.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

It is so hard to root for a side when you dislike both of them.

Clearly Apple is the bigger cunt here though. No idea what you mean.

 

[Fuz]

I'm thinking about all those people who spent real money on mtx on mobile Fortnite.


And I'm happy.

 

[Dr Bass]

Maybe i don't know the full scoop on everything going on but.....

On the surface, I'd say Apple is right.

However, to me, Apple shouldn't push the envelope. If they continue to be the Apple douchebags that they always have been, they'll push it to court (which is always risky) and then Epic can push for disclosure (which Apple won't want).

Since their iPhones are federally regulated (FCC) and are tied to their store, the government can easily argue monopoly on their store.

So Apple can put on a brave face, but this could be problems.

That's the thing. Apple should be able to have its own store and have their own rules. It's fine if they don't want third party payment processors on the app store. Totally within their rights.

But, Apple should not be able to lock down iOS to prevent me from installing any software I want, either.

Apple is basically my favorite computer company and it's not even close. But I think they are completely wrong with how they approach iOS and even MacOS to some degree (pushes towards notarization). The whole thing is depressing and feels like the company is run by bean counters and lawyers and not product people anymore, or people who actually care about computing.

 

[TaroYamada]

I sort of despise Epic, but they're 100% right about Apple in this case and the app store needs to be looked into. Other app stores should be allowed to exist on the platform just like Android.

 

[Zog]

The thing I dont understand is why Corporations have the "right" to dictate what someone can or cannot do with a product they bought. As far as I am concearned if I bought an Iphone, or whatever product for that matter, I should own not only the hardware but the software in that specific unit and as such I should have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it. Regarding the Epic vs Apple I have o issues with fortnite being removed from the appstore, thei broke apple's rules and I'm fine with that. But thereal bullshit here is the lack of options outside appstore to install an app. Man I'd love to see the EU growing a pair and forcing that on apple.

You should be able to alter your device as you see fit but you can't expect Apple, Sony, Google, etc... to help you do it. They shouldn't help you play NES ROMS, for example or install a mod chip (is that still a thing).

Also, once you modify the device, I think it's fine if they lock you out from their network to protect their network.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

total Apple move. they have always been about closed systems.

at any rate i can still count the number of games i have played on an Apple on one hand.

The thing I dont understand is why Corporations have the "right" to dictate what someone can or cannot do with a product they bought. As far as I am concearned if I bought an Iphone, or whatever product for that matter, I should own not only the hardware but the software in that specific unit and as such I should have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it. Regarding the Epic vs Apple I have o issues with fortnite being removed from the appstore, thei broke apple's rules and I'm fine with that. But thereal bullshit here is the lack of options outside appstore to install an app. Man I'd love to see the EU growing a pair and forcing that on apple.

FWIW you "do" have that right already. if you have the knowledge and can hack it and get things to work, then go for it. just don't let them know about it and you can do whatever you want.

however, they have a duty to shareholders to protect their product. if you alert them (voluntarily or otherwise) to potential theft or tampering (even if it is "theft" vis a vis insane legal language) they have a duty to shut you off from their product. there are many reasons, liability is probably the biggest one. if you install something that ends up damaging the product and potentially harming people, they do not want to be liable to being sued. thus some line has to be drawn between an "official" and "tampered" product.

 

[Vawn]

It is so hard to root for a side when you dislike both of them.

It's not even disliking them for pre-existing reasons. They're both acting horribly as it pertains to this situation.

I was more on Epic's side at first. But after seeing my kids cry because they lost Fortnite on their iPads and then see Epic attempt to use them to make an outrage mob to fight their petty "war", I'm starting to lean more towards Apple.

 

[iorek21]

I'm saddened by this news

 

[Thirty7ven]

What did they expect?

Apple WILL LOSE this battle. You know that right?

No chance. They don’t own a monopoly. EPIC over extended here.

 

[StormCell]

Not rooting for Apple in this one. I totally hate walled gardens, especially on general computing devices like phones and tablets. I don't care that Sony and Nintendo upkeep walled markets on their platforms. I would prefer they didn't. And as far as cell phones go, I'm totally opposed to the concept. If MS began doing this with Windows, I'd remove it immediately.

 

[Fuz]

The whole thing is depressing and feels like the company is run by bean counters and lawyers and not product people anymore, or people who actually care about computing.

It's never been.

 

[Castro27]

You should be able to alter your device as you see fit but you can't expect Apple, Sony, Google, etc... to help you do it. They shouldn't help you play NES ROMS, for example or install a mod chip (is that still a thing).

Also, once you modify the device, I think it's fine if they lock you out from their network to protect their network.

I agree with you when you say that they are entitled to lock me out of their network but if that is the only option available then they are, essentially, locking me out of the device.

 

[johntown]

Epic is such a scummy company. The tit for tat though between them and Apple is so amusing. Its like two kids fighting over something on a playground. They have no chance against Apple though and Apple is basically being a bully now lol.

 

[Arkam]

I wonder what's the difference between Fornite in app purchase and Netflix in app subscription.
You can download Netflix for free on Ios, then pay Netflix using their app without giving Apple a cent.
But apparently you can't do the same with the Fornite app.

I am no expert, but I would assume Apple is getting a cut from NetFlix. Agree on a set price for number of monthly unique users multiplied by viewing time. Any iOS experts want to chime in and clarify?

 

[phil_t98]

Should Apple be able to tell us what we program on Mac and iOS? Should Microsoft be able to tell us what we can do with our windows machines? People defending Apple here baffle me.

erm

the terms and conditions are the same on google ,Xbox stores, playstation store so I don’t get what the anti apple problem is

 

[Zog]

I agree with you when you say that they are entitled to lock me out of their network but if that is the only option available then they are, essentially, locking me out of the device.

It's not the only option once you've modified the device.

 

[phil_t98]

Do some of yall realize that this is actual anti-consumerism happening in front of us? Like.....some of you call Sony anti-consumer (it isn't), yet yall rooting for Apple here?

You do realise that Sony taoe a 30% cut on the playstation store to?

 

[Vawn]

Were about to see how serious Epic are at fighting this fight. Dont forget, they got banned by Apple and Google store. So theyre off mobile completely.

No, you don't have to go through the Google Plat store on Android. Fortnite is still around and able to purchase v-bucks through Epic.