And what is the opinion of the Halo Infinite reveal on twitch, or YouTube, or reddit, or wherever.
It's awful. The event is being seen as a fail. That isn't good for MS.
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Steve Jobs comments on xbox in 1995
- Thread starter Dr Bass
- Start date
It's awful. The event is being seen as a fail. That isn't good for MS.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
People don't get "gamepass" or "cloud" for the sake of it, in the same manner that they don't get internet access or cable TV for the sake of it, they get gamepass because they want games (and some feel it's a great value, BECAUSE OF THE GAMES... I find it's the worst service of its kind, the games selection if both comparatively limited and not so good).
alabtrosMyster
Banned
I don't know, I bought two tablets in 2013 (I was stupid back then, but I assure you I'm much better now, my IQ must be 200 at this point in time).if it was an apple product it would be half as powerful at double the price and would be a white fingerprint and scratch magnet.
and after an update 2 years down the line it would suddenly run slower for no reason...
Anyway, the Samsung galaxy I got (with extremely good specs for the time) lost OS updates support about 1 or 2 years in, it just died a few months ago.
My iPad air 1st gen however, well it was kept up to date until 2019, pretty much all the applications we use still work on it (some compatibility issues are starting to creep in). It does it's thing pretty well.
However, I don't like iPhones, but Apple offer similar support for their phones, 5 years of OS updates... you can only dream of this on Android.
In this market this is as good as it gets, Android's tablet ecosystem is a sh*t show.
Starbuck2907
Member
Cell phones and tablets are gradually becoming commodities, which means the prices are gradually getting cheaper and they are slowly becoming less profitable. Once you saturate a market, like iPhones in the US, there is very limited growth, so you have to turn to services for growth, which is what Apple is doing. They can grow overseas by selling phones, but they can’t charge the same prices. They basically have to raise price on current iPhones and Apple products to maintain growth or grow their services division. Their services division set record revenue in early 2020. I guess they can make profits in other overpriced, innovative products, but it’s the services division that set record revenue this year.
Further reading: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-as-a-services-company-starts-for-real-monday
Further reading 2:
Infographic: Apple Services: A Decade of Growth
This chart shows Apple quarterly services revenue.
www.statista.com
Microsoft are historically a software company who finally started giving a shit about hardware design. Are they at Apple’s level? No. But they have definitely improved their hardware offerings in recent years. In fact, they hired the Surface hardware team and also let them design the XSX to help beef up their perceived deficiencies in hardware.
I basically went through pains in my original post to explain why the companies have gradually become more alike (but still different). But, you seem to have missed all that. I wasn’t talking about their “foundations” but where they are now, which has Microsoft beefing up their hardware a bit, and Apple beefing up their service offerings a bit.
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JustP_Gaming
Banned
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.
I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:
And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:
It's really pathetic what's going on.
Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond
why would anyone take Xbox advice and opinions from someone who clearly isn't an Xbox fan? Your post history shows all. Try again.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
this is a great post. I was in several arguments before the conference over whether or not Phil spencer is clueless but after the reveal, its clear that he really is clueless. how can you be proud of that conference? how can you be proud of CGi trailers your studios didnt even create.
I think Phil Spencer needs to go. Gamepass is a dumb idea and its going to hurt video games because allowing people to play $100 million games on a $1 sub is not sustainable. they know it which is why they said its the last Halo and it will be all expansions and add-ons after this. Same goes for Fable and the MMO rumors.
wipeout364
Member
I thought the show was ok but I think to me the plan at Microsoft is that the Xbox series X is the next iteration of Xbox, not a cut off point like Sony is doing.
They are developing their ecosystem and I am very interested to see what Gamepass looks like with 200 to 400 games on it due to complete backward compatibility which I think will be their play this gen. It will be a value proposition that I think will be hard to resist.
In my opinion, If you are being truthful both shows were completely underwhelming but gaming is a mature medium now, the days of being blown away by a 60 second trailers are over. I haven’t seen anything mind blowing in years except VR, which I actually don’t like but will admit is revolutionary.
They are developing their ecosystem and I am very interested to see what Gamepass looks like with 200 to 400 games on it due to complete backward compatibility which I think will be their play this gen. It will be a value proposition that I think will be hard to resist.
In my opinion, If you are being truthful both shows were completely underwhelming but gaming is a mature medium now, the days of being blown away by a 60 second trailers are over. I haven’t seen anything mind blowing in years except VR, which I actually don’t like but will admit is revolutionary.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Steve Jobs would be rolling in his grave if he saw the recent Halo Infinite Demo.
Unknown Soldier
Member
This meme is getting increasingly outdated in a world where Apple makes the world's fastest ARM processors. Nothing from Qualcomm or anyone else can touch Apple Ax Bionic, which is why Apple is confident enough to start using ARM in Macs when the rest of the world is still chained to x86. The Apple of a previous generation is not the hardware powerhouse it is today.if it was an apple product it would be half as powerful at double the price and would be a white fingerprint and scratch magnet.
and after an update 2 years down the line it would suddenly run slower for no reason...
Also Apple is the only company which is out there supporting their products with software updates for 5 years or longer. Your average Android device is abandoned after 1-2 years and will never be patched when the next serious vulnerability shows up and leaves you wide open to being hacked.
You have been able to buy Apple products which are in non-white colors for many years now. The original iPhone had a black front and a grey back, and that color ("Space Grey") is still available today if you don't want something that is white.
I don't even particularly like Apple, my laptop is Windows and my phone is Android, but if you want to keep being blind to what Apple is and does then you won't ever understand why so many people around you buy and use their products. Even people like me, Android tablets are pure garbage trash and so I actually own and use an iPad Air. It's just another product to me, I'm not dedicating my whole life to Apple like many Apple owners. I just find the iPad Air is the best tablet you can buy today, so it's what I use.
I asked for this , didn’t defend anything... it’s a mess in the software side .
longdi
Banned
Imo this video does not apply with current Xbox, at all.
You could make a case of Xbox One.
But Phil has a team that knows how to build a good hardware, at the same time, they are working on the software and marketing.
It is just Gamepass seems a very divisive strategy between core gamers around.
But its success will be determined by the mass market imo. It is a bet Phil has to take to innovate away from the expected.
You could make a case of Xbox One.
But Phil has a team that knows how to build a good hardware, at the same time, they are working on the software and marketing.
It is just Gamepass seems a very divisive strategy between core gamers around.
But its success will be determined by the mass market imo. It is a bet Phil has to take to innovate away from the expected.
DonF
Member
I think you misunderstood op's point. It's not talking about hardware design, it's about the core business of a company. That's why Steve jobs mentions Xerox, IBM and his company.
He says that at some point, sales people are those that take the credit for the company's good status, and they get promoted, so eventually the head of the company is not those that design the product (good design is invisible) but those that get the product to the people, so they take the decisions now. Not designer, salesmen.
It's the classic Ford quote, of you ask people what they wanted they would've said a faster horse, not a car.
Phil is a great leader (way better than Don Mattrick), but he has too much on his hands now, and I believe that Xbox (the hardware and software) is not his focus, it's game pass.
So he is building game pass over great game games, just like Netflix is doing right now with it's shows. Most Netflix shows (and movies) are trash, but there are a ton of them, so people feel like they have options and some people will like those not so good shows.
Moses85
Member
Sorry, if this is true, he definitely loves the wrong games.
Threat all the great Rare IPs they own like shit is only one example besides this great looking Halo Game
sendit
Member
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Jon Neu
Banned
And yet, he was the one pushing for creating or buying more gaming studios.
MS simply isn't ready yet to show the fruits of those studios. Halo Infinite was in development 5 years ago, when not even the Xbox One X existed so it's obviously an Xbox One game that is also launching on the Series X with some RT.
Growing your first and second parties and creating more exclusives it's precisely the right thing to do. If things like Avowed look in gameplay how it looked in the trailer, I would be pretty happy with the direction Phil Spencer is going.
Sentenza
Member
Aside for the fact that Steve Jobs was a blowhard, he's also the last person I'd want to take advice from to manage a gaming brand.
He almost single-handedly killed any chance of gaming flourishing on Mac with his laughable policy about thinking that videogames "cheapened" the Apple brand.
He almost single-handedly killed any chance of gaming flourishing on Mac with his laughable policy about thinking that videogames "cheapened" the Apple brand.
bumleforce
Member
Man some people will try to find anything to bash xbox
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.
I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:
And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:
It's really pathetic what's going on.
Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond
Yeah you can tell from that interview that Sony still gets it. They know what they have to do to get the most success next gen
NullZ3r0
Banned
Jobs was a douche and horrible family man whose money couldn't save him in the end.
The only lesson he can provide is to learn how not to live your life.
If MS nails August and the launch, no one will remember any missteps prior. No one remembers Halo's disasterous E3 in 2001 because the final game was a masterpiece.
The only lesson he can provide is to learn how not to live your life.
If MS nails August and the launch, no one will remember any missteps prior. No one remembers Halo's disasterous E3 in 2001 because the final game was a masterpiece.
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Which is ironic considering he and Wozniak both came from a gaming company (Atari)
HaveButOneLife
Banned
Hyperbole much?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.
I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:
And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:
It's really pathetic what's going on.
Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond
No JRPG’s is alive and well after that show. All they had was years old port of DQ11, a few multi platform games that’s barely going to sell on XB. Nothing like what Phil Spencer was claiming before the show about “I’m proud of what we have to show with Japanese games.” No publishing, no exclusives, nothing. The 360 days of Japanese support are long gone.
The rest of that tweet is also dumb. The no games and and Halo Gears Forza narrative is even more true now after all that hype about buying studios. The only game releasing this year is......Halo. Which looks pretty bad. The showed another Forza that’s not releasing anytime soon. The rest of the games from their studios were all CG trailers and promises. With the other studios not even having anything to show at all.
And as for the topic. Yeah it’s pretty obvious MS is a cold, robotic company. I don’t think there’s any real gamer people left like they had with the 360.
bishopcruz
Member
If it was Cerny we'd be looking at Knack Infinite. Ok, that does sound pretty good.
bishopcruz
Member
Wasn't this from the Era when Jobs nearly ran Apple into the ground?
Redlancet
Banned
Ah the substance of Another paper Mario or animal crossing, sure buddy
Memorabilia
Member
I don't disagree. But you say this like 1) you think the AAA approach is sustainable and 2) the A /AA approach is inherently bad.
In my estimation, neither are true. In fact, #2 seems to be the opposite of bad and more quality AA games is just what the market needs to survive and thrive. I would also argue these ideas are not mutually exclusive. MS will still be able to put out AAA games but they may have to tinker with the Gamepass model going forward where not every one is available on the service.
As much as I was personally loathe to admit it as recently as a year ago, the Gamepass approach is a winner. Its just simply, undeniably a great value, even to someone like myself who prefers physical copies and AAA blockbuster style games.
supernova8
Banned
Opinion leadership - Wikipedia
Nope. People on this forum are generally 'in the know' at least compared to more casual/mainstream consumers. A lot of people on this forum will be 'that guy who knows about games/tech' in their social circle. Not everyone falls into that category but by the very nature of what this forum is about, I'd say it holds true more often than not.
You are implying that there's no difference when there clearly is. If there were no difference, why would media outlets get free review copies? Why do product companies send products out to YouTubers (even ones with hardly any subscribers)? It's because they believe those people can influence other people.
Hardly anyone in the mainstream watches Digital Foundry yet Microsoft chose them to do a hardware deep-dive. Why? Because they know WE watch Digital Foundry. We'll be influenced by Digital Foundry (to varying degrees) and in turn our lower-information friends/family will be influenced by us.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
1. Phil is responsible for selling Xbox. You won't see him trashing the upcomming new iteration of the most important Xbox franchise. He personally is probably well aware of the visual issues of Halo Infinite and internally, he will probably have commented on it, but not as an outside facing figure. Similarly, you won't see major Nintendo or Sony execs publically trash upcomming Mario or Naughty Dog games for any fault they might personally see in the products. That is just unreasonable to expect and is in no way an indication of the exec's passion for games. Just look at the PS3 presentation at E3 2006, where everything was way below previously promised fidelity, the console ridiculously pricey (600€ in 2006 is the equivalent of 729€ today!) and trash presentations like the Genji presentation were given and how many big PlayStation execs at the time were dumping on that.
2. How did we see in Halo any failings of the CPU? PC scalability has included vast differences in CPU as well. I do agree that PC scalability is not a great example specifically because PCs are not dedicated hardware, but this in fact means that it is much more reasonable to expect scalability precisely because you do not need to accomodate for an absurd amount of cinfigurations. As long as there are only two possible configurations for Xbox Series, there are only three different configurations devleopers have to optimise towards: Xbox One, Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X. Presumably Series S is built in a way that scaling from Series X should be simple when reducing from 4k to 1080p res (I do not think it is quite as simple, but that is what Microsoft has claimed). In major engines you can request the specific system a game is running on, so you can, as a programmer, specifically change the assets you load, including models, the resolution you output at and the target resolution.
geordiemp
Member
If I was doing phils job, I would of billed July 23rd as a look at upcoming games coming to gamepass and juts included cinematic trailers and made clear MS would show in depth gameplay of some games releasing on XSX closer to release date due to Covid work restrictions/
But the saleman could not help over hype it up..Just like the previous state of play was over hyped.
Show then boast, dont boast then fail to show.
Oh yes I remember that ps3 showing, I remember buying 2 off 360's at the time and shifting to mS. Consequences.
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Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I agree that Phil is not doing a good job with setting expectations and keeps on overhyping and underdelivering esp. when it comes to the Xbox Game Studios line up. E.g. it's pretty hilarious actually that he touts that the line up is the most diverse in Xbox's history when it is as close to the old shooter-racing sim-wrpg (or: Gears/Halo - Forza - Fable as it used to be called) trifecta they had going in the tail years of 360 as it gets. But to claim he does not care about games is not substantiated by showing that he oversold what they had.
dDoc
Member
Xplainin
Banned
Japs is short for Japanese.
Aussie is short for Australians.
Brits is short for people from Great Britain.
Scots is short for Scottish people.
Nips was short for Nippon.
CouchMaster
Member
I expected this video in the OP tbh
Dirk Benedict
Member
Avatar is pure lava, bro.
Burger
Member
Apple released the game console Pippin in 1996 and it was a big failure. They didn't have a fucking idea about console gaming.
OP wasn't commenting on how Apple have a better gaming proposition than Microsoft. It was a commentary on how MS are letting sales and marketing people define the direction of Xbox as opposed to Technical Directors and Artists.
yurinka
Member
I meant that they were wrong because Apple's failure with their console shown they didn't understood the market, and MS didn't get a good market share with the original Xbox. And well, when they gave the marketing people too much leadership they went with the tv, tv, tv, sports, kinect, microtransactions, tv because back then it was what the market was supposed to want.
OP wasn't commenting on how Apple have a better gaming proposition than Microsoft. It was a commentary on how MS are letting sales and marketing people define the direction of Xbox as opposed to Technical Directors and Artists.
To have great market results as Sony or Nintendo had they must do a great job in all fronts: both in marketing, technical and artists going in a direction that appeals to their potential users. As an example, right now Sony and Nintendo go in two very different directions and it works very well.
Agent X
Member
You make good points, but I can still understand why there's a lot of criticism being leveled at him.
It's important to build up the first-party portfolio, and that's obviously why they bought so many studios over the last three years. At the same time, they still had plenty of time to get things in place for the Xbox Series X release.
Microsoft's first-party output has been rather subdued (to put it mildly) during those three years. The assumption was that's because they were winding down on Xbox One (figuring they already "lost the war") and would instead devote their efforts towards the next generation. We figured that they'd just burst out of the gate with all guns blazing. So far, that doesn't seem to be happening...and on top of it, many of their key games are still 2 to 3 more years away? You can see why there are so many disappointed people here.
That's true. You shouldn't expect someone in his position to downplay his own company's product. We can only hope that when he gets back to the board room, he takes the criticisms to heart.
It has been 2 years since the new studios have been bought and founded 2018 to 2020. What avalanche of games was there going to be with 4 big AAA studios after the budgetary purge after Don's failed tenure. 343 we seen halo lol, the coalition is coming off gears 5, rare sea of the thieves updates has used up a lot time and now they are on ever wild, Turn 10 is retooling for next generation only forza motor sport with a launch next year. Its not like phil took over sony like jack Ryan and had a big budget and the best studios in the world. He took over the 0-16 Detroit lion's basically. You can only do so much with what you are given. If the new studios fail to produce then that is on Phil and he will be fired.
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A.Romero
Member
And yet, he was the one pushing for creating or buying more gaming studios.
MS simply isn't ready yet to show the fruits of those studios. Halo Infinite was in development 5 years ago, when not even the Xbox One X existed so it's obviously an Xbox One game that is also launching on the Series X with some RT.
Growing your first and second parties and creating more exclusives it's precisely the right thing to do. If things like Avowed look in gameplay how it looked in the trailer, I would be pretty happy with the direction Phil Spencer is going.
So Next Gen starts in a couple of years for Microsoft?
