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[Dr Bass]

While MS does not have a monopoly on gaming the same pattern has taken place that Jobs explains in this video, and it is just so incredibly evident.



Jobs talks about product genius" and "product sensibility" being rotted out and sales and marketing taking over.

Anyone remember Robbie Bach and J Allard? The guys responsible for the OG Xbox and the 360? Driven out of the company and replaced with Mattrick and later, Phil Spencer. Product guys (look at Allard's resume) replaced with sales guys. Mark Cerny is a product person. There are obviously people in charge of gaming at Sony who care about making great games for their customers.

Listen very closely to Jobs' words, and listen to the whole thing. The parallels are shocking. I've echoed similar sentiments on this board. Spencer clearly doesn't understand games. If he did, he wouldn't have approved Battletoads to look as it did. He wouldn't exude so much confidence after so many years of empty promises. He wouldn't have been "proud" of this past week's Xbox showcase. He wouldn't think he's succeeding because Game Pass is slowly gaining users while their biggest IP is embarrassed on a global stage. This is the big problem with Xbox. The people in charge don't even know how to turn things around.

Xbox fans should be mad as hell that the Xbox division is run by bean counters and sales folk and not by people who care about making great experiences. The reason it felt so much cooler during the OG Xbox and 360 days was because guys like Allard were heading up the efforts. Get rid of Spencer and bring in a person who loves to make and play games. Someone like Graeme Devine. John Carmack. Tim Schafer. I don't think any of those guys would do it, but I'm talking about someone who fits that mold.

 

[kraspkibble]

Seriously? The guy has been dead for about a decade now and good job bringing up an interview from 1995. That was the year PlayStation 1 was released so yeah long before Xbox even existed.

Low effort and pathetic.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Spencer loves games mate... Checkout his bio before you say incorrect shit

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Spencer came out after that embarrassimg Halo showing and said 'you should watch it in 4k 60fps, it's really good'. This is a guy that thinks res and framerate = next gen graphics, even if the modelling and textures are straight out of an early Xbox One game. Tells you everything about this guy.

 

[-Arcadia-]

That resurrection in the thread title.

For a second I thought Brute Memes were a pathway to many abilities, some considered... unnatural.

 

[kraspkibble]

Spencer came out after that embarrassimg Halo showing and said 'you should watch it in 4k 60fps, it's really good'. This is a guy that thinks res and framerate = next gen graphics, even if the modelling and textures are straight out of an early Xbox One game. Tells you everything about this guy.

I don't think that's what he meant but nice try...

If you actually watched the live stream you'd know the quality was shit so there's nothing wrong with him saying to watch it at the resolution/framerates that the game plays at.

I'm not defending them because the game does look rough and they need to fix it but c'mon...

 

[TalentedMrJ]

You're saying everything MS showed was trash???
Nothing interested you? Not a single game?

The average consumer isn't watching gaming forums and obsessing over asset quality and draw distance
Forums like these are the vocal minority

 

[yurqqa]

Seriously? The guy has been dead for about a decade now and good job bringing up an interview from 1995. That was the year PlayStation 1 was released so yeah long before Xbox even existed.

Low effort and pathetic.

Because history never repeat itself, right ?

 

[THEAP99]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.

I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:

And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:

It's really pathetic what's going on.



Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I don't think that's what he meant but nice try...

If you actually watched the live stream you'd know the quality was shit so there's nothing wrong with him saying to watch it at the resolution/framerates that the game plays at.

I'm not defending them because the game does look rough and they need to fix it but c'mon...

Dude, I watched it at 4K quality video afterwards and my impression was even worse because the flat textures, simple geometry and dead environment was crystal clear to see. You could run that game in 8k doesn't change the fact that it looks last gen.

 

[kretos]

 

[93xfan]

Because history never repeat itself, right ?

It doesn’t always repeat itself. For example, just because you say something ridiculous now to try and make a ridiculous point doesn’t mean you wont learn from it and are doomed to repeat the same mistake.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

The forgotten Microsoft deal that saved Apple from bankruptcy​

Apple was on the brink of bankruptcy in 1997 and it was Microsoft that helped save the company.

Apple’s world-beating success in the past decade has come on the back of the iPhone. It has sold more than a billion of them since the first model was unveiled by Jobs in 2007.

But a decade before he strode on stage to deliver one of the most memorable product unveilings in consumer tech history, Apple was nearly down and out. It had just cut a third of its workforce, and it was about 90 days from going broke, Jobs would later reveal.

And then it struck a deal with the enemy.
Jobs had been brought back after being ousted by the company he co-founded and made a shock announcement at an event in August 1997.

In what Wired described as “a remarkable feat of negotiating legerdemain” Steve Jobs revealed he had secured a $150 million investment (with no voting rights) from Microsoft and also got an assurance from Bill Gates that Microsoft would support its Office products for the Mac for five years. The investment gave the company some much-needed cash and the assurance of Office support proved crucial because the Microsoft Office software was so heavily relied upon by professionals.

The deal that saved Apple from bankruptcy

APPLE has made history by becoming the first private-sector company to surpass $US1 trillion in market value.

www.news.com.au

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Phil Spencer is doing his job. Making videogames is hard work, coordinating a console launch is hard work. the guys not gonna come out and start crying saying everything's trash and beg people to buy a Xbox or whatever you think he's supposed to be doing. I'm sure he cares, I'm sure they are trying.

What Steve Jobs says is true and applies to a lot of AAA devs I don't think it applies to Xbox right now though.

And isn't J Allen Brack the fucking Blizzard Chinese communist party supprter?

 

[YoshiMax]

Seamus Blackley is the father of Xbox. His omission in OP negates everything that comes after.

 

[oagboghi2]

You're saying everything MS showed was trash???
Nothing interested you? Not a single game?

The average consumer isn't watching gaming forums and obsessing over asset quality and draw distance
Forums like these are the vocal minority

Forums like this are made up by early adopters, the people who buy the consoles first, and establish the narratives that continue for months.

I heard people like you say the same crap about "average consumers" and gaming forums when MS was pushing their DRM nonsense. Sorry, but our opinion does carry weight

 

[THEAP99]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.

I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:

And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:

It's really pathetic what's going on.



Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond

they really need to work on how they handle social media stuff amongst other things:



I can see the argument that Aaron may not know him or everyone he interacts with it, but it’s generally a concerning pattern and once again demonstrates the wackiness of how things are ran at Xbox

 

[Paracelsus]

they really need to work on how they handle social media stuff amongst other things:

The tweets are stupid because the media will gladly shill for Sony for free.

 

[geordiemp]

Spencer loves games mate... Checkout his bio before you say incorrect shit

I normally agree with you but not on this one.

1. Phil obviously watched that halo demo and if he could not see that pop in and other issues I could see from 50 feet with one eye...Phil ran with it so he either cannot see it / or does not care (pick one)

2. Also Phil going on about PC scaleablility, PC scaleability is possible because all PCs have good CPUs and you can scale graphics somewhat. You cannot scale CPU to a mobile jaguar toaster CPU and HDD. We saw that in Halo. PHil either does not understand CPU and HDD scaling or does not care (Pick one)

Phil is just bullshitting or does not have a clue. However, I also dont like some of the Sony suits.

 

[Kagey K]

Forums like this are made up by early adopters, the people who buy the consoles first, and establish the narratives that continue for months.

I heard people like you say the same crap about "average consumers" and gaming forums when MS was pushing their DRM nonsense. Sorry, but our opinion does carry weight

Starting to sound like some Twitter danger hairs now.

Your opinion carries exactly the same weight as the people that view this forum and those you talk to in real life or on other places on the internet.

No more, no less.

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.

I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:

And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:

It's really pathetic what's going on.



Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond

What I liked about this interview with Eric it felt more like a conversation and not contrived pre planned pre written pr bullet point list rambling by a PR bot. Yes he is marketing person but the way he came across as authentic and natural but yes did use 2 or 3 major talking points but explained the meaning behind their choices of using it.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I normally agree with you but not on this one.

1. Phil obviously watched that halo demo and if he could not see that pop in and other issues I could see from 50 feet with one eye...Phil ran with it so he either cannot see it / or does not care (pick one)

2. Also Phil going on about PC scaleablility, PC scaleability is possible because all PCs have good CPUs and you can scale graphics somewhat. You cannot scale CPU to a mobile jaguar toaster CPU and HDD. We saw that in Halo. PHil either does not understand CPU and HDD scaling or does not care (Pick one)

Phil is just bullshitting or does not have a clue. However, I also dont like some of the Sony suits.

1. They just didn't have anything proper to show. It's not like he didn't care, it's he didn't have a choice.

2. Halo didn't show anything bad on CPU level...

 

[Goalus]

While MS does not have a monopoly on gaming the same pattern has taken place that Jobs explains in this video, and it is just so incredibly evident.



Jobs talks about product genius" and "product sensibility" being rotted out and sales and marketing taking over.

Anyone remember Robbie Bach and J Allard? The guys responsible for the OG Xbox and the 360? Driven out of the company and replaced with Mattrick and later, Phil Spencer. Product guys (look at Allard's resume) replaced with sales guys. Mark Cerny is a product person. There are obviously people in charge of gaming at Sony who care about making great games for their customers.

Listen very closely to Jobs' words, and listen to the whole thing. The parallels are shocking. I've echoed similar sentiments on this board. Spencer clearly doesn't understand games. If he did, he wouldn't have approved Battletoads to look as it did. He wouldn't exude so much confidence after so many years of empty promises. He wouldn't have been "proud" of this past week's Xbox showcase. He wouldn't think he's succeeding because Game Pass is slowly gaining users while their biggest IP is embarrassed on a global stage. This the big problem with Xbox. The people in charge don't even know how to turn things around.

Xbox fans should be mad as hell that the Xbox division is run by bean counters and sales folk and not by people who care about making great experiences. The reason it felt so much cooler during the OG Xbox and 360 days was because guys like Allard were heading up the efforts. Get rid of Spencer and bring in a person who loves to make and play games. Someone like Graeme Devine. John Carmack. Tim Schafer. I don't think any of those guys would do it, but I'm talking about someone who fits that mold.

Game Pass IS a product.
Your post exposes the typical boomer mentality that is common in the Playstation camp and it's funny that you have to present an old-ass video to make your point. It's as dated as your way of thinking.

Watch Grounded become a huge success next week and during the months after.

 

[geordiemp]

1. They just didn't have anything proper to show. It's not like he didn't care, it's he didn't have a choice.

2. Halo didn't show anything bad on CPU level...

1. Yeah maybe phil was just desparate to show something as the other studios had no gameplay really either. However, if that was Cerny he would not of been mouthing off about power and how good it is, say its an early build up front and excuse abc....Excuses dont work after the event.

2. Next DF video they said would explain the Halo limitation issues due to the last gen CPU and stuff. CPU makes such a difference to scope, animations, scale, physics. Jaguar needs to die , throw in HDD and your starting the race 3 laps back.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

It might be meaningless but i'm curious, who would be the equivalent of (Sony's head of WWS) Herman Hulst at the XBox division?

 

[Kagey K]

Perhaps next he can explain what’s wrong with being deceased.

Might do more for humanity if he’s coming back this many years later.

 

[sinnergy]

While MS does not have a monopoly on gaming the same pattern has taken place that Jobs explains in this video, and it is just so incredibly evident.



Jobs talks about product genius" and "product sensibility" being rotted out and sales and marketing taking over.

Anyone remember Robbie Bach and J Allard? The guys responsible for the OG Xbox and the 360? Driven out of the company and replaced with Mattrick and later, Phil Spencer. Product guys (look at Allard's resume) replaced with sales guys. Mark Cerny is a product person. There are obviously people in charge of gaming at Sony who care about making great games for their customers.

Listen very closely to Jobs' words, and listen to the whole thing. The parallels are shocking. I've echoed similar sentiments on this board. Spencer clearly doesn't understand games. If he did, he wouldn't have approved Battletoads to look as it did. He wouldn't exude so much confidence after so many years of empty promises. He wouldn't have been "proud" of this past week's Xbox showcase. He wouldn't think he's succeeding because Game Pass is slowly gaining users while their biggest IP is embarrassed on a global stage. This the big problem with Xbox. The people in charge don't even know how to turn things around.

Xbox fans should be mad as hell that the Xbox division is run by bean counters and sales folk and not by people who care about making great experiences. The reason it felt so much cooler during the OG Xbox and 360 days was because guys like Allard were heading up the efforts. Get rid of Spencer and bring in a person who loves to make and play games. Someone like Graeme Devine. John Carmack. Tim Schafer. I don't think any of those guys would do it, but I'm talking about someone who fits that mold.

I witnessed this first hand at my last employer, a big agency , the creatives , I am a human centered designer , where being driven out by the marketing sales / technical people Because they couldn’t and aren’t willing to understand , and now they fired all their designers ...

Design is important , and way of thinking , it’s more about problem solving and creating a great product for the people that use it.
At least I am now going to a company that has Dieter Rams (Apple) philosophy on top of their minds.

also make something with passion that will always reflect in your product and rub into others .

 

[Hudo]

What the fuck is going on with GAF since that Xbox showcase?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

1. Yeah maybe phil was just desparate to show something as the other studios had no gameplay really either. However, if that was Cerny he would not of been mouthing off about power and how good it is, say its an early build up front and excuse abc....Excuses dont work after the event.

2. Next DF video they said would explain the Halo limitation issues due to the last gen CPU and stuff. CPU makes such a difference to scope, animations, scale, physics. Jaguar needs to die , throw in HDD and your starting the race 3 laps back.

1. I agree, this is typical Microsoft. It's like marketing doesn't talk with development. They hype stuff up like crazy, like they did with Halo the past few weeks, and then they show this demo... I'm sure this isn't the end result but it's pretty crappy demo.

2. Issue now was purely graphics, and that doesn't have anything to do with the CPU though. Animations, scale, physics will be analyzed once the game has been released, didn't see enough footage for this

 

[sinnergy]

What the fuck is going on with GAF since that Xbox showcase?

To me personally as MS gamer , they showed that they have no clue what we as gamers want and need. And it’s beginning to look like mismanagement of creative teams .

I was severely let down. They looked to be in the right track , with the console and games .

but now in hindsight, Sony did a much better job.

I just call it how I see it, always have .

 

[Soodanim]

Forums like this are made up by early adopters, the people who buy the consoles first, and establish the narratives that continue for months.

I heard people like you say the same crap about "average consumers" and gaming forums when MS was pushing their DRM nonsense. Sorry, but our opinion does carry weight

Your opinion carries no weight. What carries weight, if anything, is much larger places with comment sections. YouTube, Twitch, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit. You think they care about niche audiences?

If forum opinion carried weight we wouldn't have micro-transactions.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Xbox is run by a bunch out of touch amateurs sadly. Time to bring in some actual adults.

I mean we literally have execs quote tweeting 40-year-old loser fanboys and just acting cringe:

And we also have them hanging around lame podcasts:

It's really pathetic what's going on.



Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond

agreed on all counts. Like seriously some of the xbox elites on twitter are hilarious man. Even playstation's elite fans aren't this much cringe. Anyways let people buy whichever console they want and have fun!

 

[nikolino840]

You're saying everything MS showed was trash???
Nothing interested you? Not a single game?

The average consumer isn't watching gaming forums and obsessing over asset quality and draw distance
Forums like these are the vocal minority

Look what's Jobs have created...iphone users buy only iphone and say Samsung sucks
It's the brand not the product

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

It might be meaningless but i'm curious, who would be the equivalent of (Sony's head of WWS) Herman Hulst at the XBox division?

Well that's the thing, I dont have a clue, they prefer to let the games do the talking instead of non-stop PR and interviews like MS.

 

[sinnergy]

Look what's Jobs have created...iphone users buy only iphone and say Samsung sucks
It's the brand not the product

It’s the product . Personally I think they create the best experience. And I had android phones.

 

[Kagey K]

It’s the product . Personally I think they create the best experience. And I had android phones.

Jesus fucking Christ, a phone is an experience now?

Maybe 2020 was for the best.

 

[Mato]

I feel like there are many in there who pretend to love games for climbing reasons, but actually they don't.

 

[Goalus]

Look what's Jobs have created...iphone users buy only iphone and say Samsung sucks
It's the brand not the product

Seems to be a matter of opinion. I buy only Samsung phones and say iPhone and Apple are trash.

 

[Kagey K]

I feel like there are many in there who pretend to love games for climbing reasons, but actually they don't.

I’m 99% sure most people here actually hate games, they certainly spend more time hating games, then playing the ones they do like.

 

[Le Big Mac]

This is getting out of hand. XBOXs presentation wasn't that bad. Dare I say I'm more excited for the games they announced than the PS event.

 

[Goalus]

Geoff's interview with PlayStation marketing guy Eric really just shows how actually serious and mature PlayStation takes it. It's night and day. Time to clean house over at Redmond

Ugh, that controller is ugly as sin. Even after several weeks I am still triggered just looking at it.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Steve Jobs got fired from Apple in 1986 and didn’t become CEO again until 1997. This interview is from his “wilderness” years. After he came back as CEO, Apple spent tons more on marketing while keeping their innovative product development goals. Now, they are slowly moving into the subscription revenue profit model.

Microsoft hired the well-respected Surface product development team and put them to designing the XSX. They have also made subscriptions their revenue model for the future. In fact, they are further along that path than Apple.

I have a Surface Pro 2. It is awesome. I have no idea why you think Microsoft isn’t worried about design. That team is great at it. They worked on the XSX too. Financially, Apple is slowly moving toward subscriptions (iCloud, Apple TV, Apple Music/beats, Apple Arcade) for profits instead of solely relying on hardware.

Apple and Microsoft are actually quite similar in their thinking about revenue sources and hardware at this point. That’s why Microsoft hired the Surface design team. They new they needed to focus more of better hardware.

Citing an ancient Steve Jobs interview and wording the title like you did is clickbait. Acting like Cerny is some design genius (that PS4 fan noise is a shitshow) while MS has no one is silly and ignorant. And last, the “bean counters” at Sony, Apple, and Microsoft are wanting to sell you subs more than ever before. It’s just that Sony is a little less adept at successfully and quickly moving that way.

 

[geordiemp]

1. I agree, this is typical Microsoft. It's like marketing doesn't talk with development. They hype stuff up like crazy, like they did with Halo the past few weeks, and then they show this demo... I'm sure this isn't the end result but it's pretty crappy demo.

2. Issue now was purely graphics, and that doesn't have anything to do with the CPU though. Animations, scale, physics will be analyzed once the game has been released, didn't see enough footage for this

1. Agree.

2. The 3-4 enemies, all look and move same way, standing around looking dumb. Next gen is going to be so much more interesting

 

[hemo memo]

It make sense to be honest. A fantastic product could fail miserably because of marketing and sales and an awful product could sell to millions if marketed right.

The focus should be the product always obviously.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I don't know if i should laugh or cry at these "hot takes" people keep putting out here

 

[llien]

Spencer came out after that embarrassimg Halo showing and said 'you should watch it in 4k 60fps, it's really good'. This is a guy that thinks res and framerate = next gen graphics, even if the modelling and textures are straight out of an early Xbox One game. Tells you everything about this guy.

Maybe he reads GAF? I've read about importance of 60k at 4fps (or was it 4k at 60fps?) a lot on that forum.

 

[Hudo]

To me personally as MS gamer , they showed that they have no clue what we as gamers want and need. And it’s beginning to look like mismanagement of creative teams .

I was severely let down. They looked to be in the right track , with the console and games .

but now in hindsight, Sony did a much better job.

I just call it how I see it, always have .

Well, that's cool! And I am really happy that you got something out of this annoying stream of drip-feeding information over months (I actually miss E3, lol. At least it was all condensed to a week). And I agree that Sony's showing was better but overall, both showcases were disappointing (to me). If anything, both showcases failed to convince (me) why new consoles are necessary. Yes, there were some nice graphical effects in the games shown, but I haven't seen anything that couldn't be done on current gen consoles with less graphical fidelity.
The only thing that comes to mind were I am not completely sure (but also not completely convinced either) about whether it could be done on current consoles was this "rift-jumping"/"level-jumping" thing shown in Ratchet & Clank. But my hypothesis is that even that could be done with clever (spatial) caching. But I obviously haven't played the game so maybe if they're doing something really crazy with this, my hypothesis would obviously be wrong and I would be happy, because that would be the first game that didn't just pump up the graphics.

The main thing I don't understand is why more people seem to hate on MS's showcase when Sony's showcase was the same thing. No more gameplay than what Microsoft have shown, lot's of "in-engine trailers", etc.

That being said, I think both Ubisoft and EA are tied for the biggest "why the fuck did they even have a stream?". Even the mini direct was more hype (for me!) than those two.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Financially, Apple is slowly moving toward subscriptions (iCloud, Apple TV, Apple Music/beats, Apple Arcade) for profits instead of solely relying on hardware.

Apple and Microsoft are actually quite similar in their thinking about revenue sources and hardware at this point. That’s why Microsoft hired the Surface design team. They new they needed to focus more of better hardware.

I don't agree with your premise here. The iconic hardware company (Apple) and the world's most famous software company (MS) are not any more similar than Apple is to Google, or Amazon or even Sony. In fact they're further apart.

Apple's strategy remains to create must-have physical products with high margins despite any sub ventures, which is only natural.

Xbox is moving the opposite direction - moving away from physical hardware with non-descript boxes all to push subscriptions (compare the design of Series X tower to an Apple iphone. That should tell you all you need to know about what is important for each company). Physical product has always been firmly secondary or a trojan horse for software with MS and now Xbox.

You couldn't have picked two more disparate companies in terms of foundations. That they and everyone else pivots to sub services in some way doesn't mean they have similar strategy with hardware and revenue sources.

 

[pasterpl]

It never stops to amaze me that some people have problem with ms interacting with their fans on social media. it is such a bad thing, isn’t it. It is also funny that people are surprised that ms exects are interacting with their most “hardcore“ followers. Do you really want other companies not to interact with their fan base like some companies are doing ?

 

[nikolino840]

Seems to be a matter of opinion. I buy only Samsung phones and say iPhone and Apple are trash.

Yeah but jobs was a genius for the marketing stuff,the ideas of the product are more appealing then the product itself

That's why a trailer without gameplay from a sony game is more appealing then a trailer without gameplay of an Xbox game