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[idrago01]

Two things I am finding an issue in this thread:

1. The assumption that a female lead = worse writing. Which of course is BS. What is the case though is that having a choice of character splits the writing / voice acting etc work, effectively doubling it in some cases (take voice acting - you have X dollars to spend on lead character voice acting, with one character you can pay all of that for one voice actor so will be able to pay for a better actor, if you have two characters you have to split that same budget so will only be able to afford cheaper voice actors). So it stands to reason that having a choice will likely have a detrimental impact. So to those saying the executives were write in forcing a male character - consider that by them forcing the option to choose - they fundamentally affected the effort that could be put into writing / voice acting etc. A female only lead game probably would have had a higher quality of writing / voice acting as they whole attention could have been spent on one character.
2. The constant whinging about how attractive or not, or how manly looking or not, a female character is. Guess what - female characters don't just exist for neckbeard idiots to get their rocks off too. I'm sure the same people aren't complaining how unattractive male characters in games can be.

1. I am not sure you can take data about choices when a choice is offered vs how much someone cares if a choice isn't offered. They are two totally separate things.
2. What the hell does how ugly or not the character is have anything to do with if you'll buy the game or not? Or do you also base your purchasing decisions on how hot the male character in a game is too?

Straight men probably make up at least 90% of the actual audience that buys these games and we unapologetically like attractive females. Making intentionally fugly females to please the feminist/male allies twitter crowd who don't buy video games is off-putting to their actual audience whether you want to admit it or not, it's a meme at this point and why we have topics here that compare female video game characters to popular male wrestlers.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Straight men probably make up at least 90% of the actual audience that buys these games and we unapologetically like attractive females. Making intentionally fugly females to please the feminist/male allies twitter crowd who don't buy video games is off-putting to their actual audience whether you want to admit it or not, it's a meme at this point and why we have topics here that compare female video game characters to popular male wrestlers.

And yet most video game leads are still male - so are you saying those are there to please the straight men who like attractive bodies too?
And let me get this right - you are saying the only reason that gamers could accept female characters is if they are attractive and basically they just want to get their rocks off? And you don't think that comment is a pretty pathetic judgement of gamers?

 

[GymWolf]

Want a BAFTA? You need 50/50

That sound more like a BARFA to me...

 

[Mista]

When you force something this what happens.

 

[888]

I just started AC Odyessey over since I lost my save and picked Kassandra. Holy crap she is stiff with the voice acting. Plus she has man hands and arms. Almost like they put her head on a mans body. Alexios seems more fitting.

 

[xrnzaaas]

1. And yet I suspect you are fine with the thousands of unattractive and ludicrous looking male characters that you get in video games (seriously - take a step back for a second - so many male leads are just ridiculous looking too!).
2. Why does it even matter? You aren't going to bone them - so why does it actually matter?

Maybe it's because I'm a heterosexual guy, but I'm rarely repulsed by ugly male leads in video games. On the other hand it's happening to many female characters from new games - in the last year alone I was seriously bothered by the looks of Jesse from Control, Abby from TLoU2 and now Eivor from AC Valhalla. And that's just from the big games.

I don't know if you realize that entertainment business as a whole is about escapism. It's easier to imagine you're attractive in this fictional world rather than it's the same as the real one where attractive people aren't in the vast majority. Sure there are some great games with not so good looking characters, but at least for me it's not fun to stare at an unattractive character in a bigger game which lasts more than 10-20 hours.

 

[Dodkrake]

And this is shocking how, imagine anyone thinking this will ever stop, it will only get worse lol. Ideology always comes before money now.

Cant do anything about it, so why care in the first place

Are you another toddler that can't stand women in lead roles? Because it sounds like it, especially due to the ideology > money remark when referring to the corporate world.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Maybe it's because I'm a heterosexual guy, but I'm rarely repulsed by ugly male leads in video games. On the other hand it's happening to many female characters from new games - in the last year alone I was seriously bothered by the looks of Jesse from Control, Abby from TLoU2 and now Eivor from AC Valhalla. And that's just from the big games.

Thanks for confirming your hypocrisy

I don't know if you realize that entertainment business as a whole is about escapism. It's easier to imagine you're attractive in this fictional world rather than it's the same as the real one where attractive people aren't in the vast majority. Sure there are some great games with not so good looking characters, but at least for me it's not fun to stare at an unattractive character in a bigger game which lasts more than 10-20 hours.

And yet - most people do deal with that - and have done for the damn history of video games.
Are you seriously telling me that people play Super Meat Boy because a cube shaped block of meat is attractive, or sink hours into Zelda because they find Link cute, or continue to get frustrated at Super Mario Bros because they fancy Mario? Call of Duty, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Minecraft, etc etc etc. Come on, lets be realistic, most people don't play games so they can get their rocks off to the lead character (and if you personally do - there's cheaper ways of doing that than buying a $60 game!!)

 

[base]

Evie > Jacob
Bayek > Aya
Alexios > Chyna

And call me crazy but I rather have a Remastered Assassin's Creed Unity then this new AC

Still pop-in issue

 

[TriSuit666]

I just started AC Odyessey over since I lost my save and picked Kassandra. Holy crap she is stiff with the voice acting. Plus she has man hands and arms. Almost like they put her head on a mans body. Alexios seems more fitting.

Say what again, Motherfracker. SAY WHAT AGAIN!

 

[888]

Say what again, Motherfracker. SAY WHAT AGAIN!

Yeah Alexios comes across more natural to me. Kass just sounds like she is trying to put on a manly voice. Idk. Guess I’m gonna say what again.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Straight men probably make up at least 90% of the actual audience that buys these games and we unapologetically like attractive females. Making intentionally fugly females to please the feminist/male allies twitter crowd who don't buy video games is off-putting to their actual audience whether you want to admit it or not, it's a meme at this point and why we have topics here that compare female video game characters to popular male wrestlers.

That's a pretty sad commentary on the gaming community, if true. But I don't think it's true. This forum is not representative of anything, other than the online enthusiast community. That's a fraction of gamers out there.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah Alexios comes across more natural to me. Kass just sounds like she is trying to put on a manly voice. Idk. Guess I’m gonna say what again.

Alexios sound horrible to me, he sound like a try hard old style villain or just a bad porn actor.

 

[Thugnificient]

I probably wouldn't have bought odyssey if it didn't have a male option, you can't make a spartan game inspired by the movie 300 and not have a male lead character and expect people to be okay with that. It was bad enough that you weren't able to use a shield.

Not sure about AC Odyssey being inspired by the 300 film.

Thanks for confirming your hypocrisy

Society in general is like that. Good looks in females are much more important than good looks in a male.

 

[GeorgPrime]

Evie > Jacob
Aya > Bayek
Kassandra > Alexios

Beta Male > Alpha Male



I never understood why so many male gamers prefer female characters.

 

[Elfstar]

Are you another toddler that can't stand women in lead roles? Because it sounds like it, especially due to the ideology > money remark when referring to the corporate world.

Please explain with your mature, grown up brain why having this kind of female lead being forced in this kind of videogames is supposed to be a good thing and what it's going to realistically accomplish.

 

[Red Rackham's Revenge]

The constant whinging about how attractive or not, or how manly looking or not, a female character is. Guess what - female characters don't just exist for neckbeard idiots to get their rocks off too. I'm sure the same people aren't complaining how unattractive male characters in games can be.

Given a choice between having some bloat lord or spindly thin slim-jim type on one end or He-Man jacked physique on the other, how do you think most people would play? Do you think it's because they get their rocks off to their game?

Do you think there can exist aesthetically beautiful cars or others that are offensive to the eyes? Do you think this affects someone's decision to purchase? Do you think they're aroused by their car?

I'd argue that aesthetics matter, and that this is independent of anything sexual or weird. I'm not trying to argue about specific characters, just noting that's it's not as simple as neckbeard fantasies wanting to "get their rocks off".

 

[Jon Neu]

Please explain with your mature, grown up brain why having this kind of female lead being forced in this kind of videogames is supposed to be a good thing and what it's going to realistically accomplish.

Some virtue signallers and feminists are going to feel better about their egos.

It's all about that, really.

 

[xrnzaaas]

And yet - most people do deal with that - and have done for the damn history of video games.
Are you seriously telling me that people play Super Meat Boy because a cube shaped block of meat is attractive, or sink hours into Zelda because they find Link cute, or continue to get frustrated at Super Mario Bros because they fancy Mario? Call of Duty, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Minecraft, etc etc etc. Come on, lets be realistic, most people don't play games so they can get their rocks off to the lead character (and if you personally do - there's cheaper ways of doing that than buying a $60 game!!)

Are you seriously comparing blocks of meat and fantasy/cartoon characters to models which realistically resemble human beings? Also the whole thing isn't based only on two extremes. You can dislike and avoid the game because of the main character being ugly, but at the same time don't care if someone's in the game is "only" decent / neutral looking or super hot.

 

[Boss Mog]

Assassin's Creed Odyssey director 'surprised' at Alexios/Kassandra usage split

‘Right now it’s two-thirds Alexios and one-third Kassandra’ We’re far removed from the whole “Assassin’s Creed is bad” mantra. Origins rocked it...

www.destructoid.com

The Dumbass director was surprised more people wanted to play as Alexios than Kassandra lol.

These guys spend all their time telling you how important representation is, how important it is for people to identify with a protagonist. Now they act surprised that the mostly male playerbase that buys their games wants to play as a male?

 

[INC]

Make it so

 

[Jon Neu]

And yet most video game leads are still male - so are you saying those are there to please the straight men who like attractive bodies too?
And let me get this right - you are saying the only reason that gamers could accept female characters is if they are attractive and basically they just want to get their rocks off? And you don't think that comment is a pretty pathetic judgement of gamers?

Men can get identified with other males as heroes because men are stronger and more athletic than females and men through history have been the ones embarking in dangerous adventures; it's just basic evolutive biology.

Having the feminist fantasy of this incredible manly women, it's just so obviously politically motivated and so unrealistic, it just puts people off.

 

[TheContact]

IDC what the main character's gender or whatever is as long as the story is good and written around the character, though I do like having the option of male and female, and I thought AC Odyssey handled that pretty well.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

For Odyssey I chose Kassandra as my first protagonist and she was a lesbian and bedded every woman.

For my second playthrough I chose Alexios and he was a big time ladies man!

 

[Thirty7ven]

Very convenient to say that now. I don’t buy it.

 

[M1chl]

Very convenient to say that now. I don’t buy it.

Yeah, exactly.

 

[TriSuit666]

Is Alexios's voice different than when he's Deimos?

 

[WelshBluebird]

so unrealistic, it just puts people off.

Seriously?
I was wondering how long before this came up.
Oh no, something in a damn unrealistic game is unrealistic. Shock horror.
I had wrote a bit more than this - but really there's no need.
Somehow you can accept unrealistic male characters but not "unrealistic" female characters.

 

[TimFL]

I prefer the pick your gender option so everyone gets their piece of the cake. Sounds like a win/win situation to me that way.

 

[brian0057]

Remember when Assassin's Creed was a game about assassins?
Like a Hitman game set in the past instead of whatever the fuck Oddysey (or literally anything after 2) is supposed to be?
The 2007 original is still the best game in the series.

 

[Jon Neu]

Seriously?
I was wondering how long before this came up.
Oh no, something in a damn unrealistic game is unrealistic. Shock horror.
I had wrote a bit more than this - but really there's no need.
Somehow you can accept unrealistic male characters but not "unrealistic" female characters.

You can do your videogame as unrealistic as you want, but if you try to do a more realistic game and use a female to beath dudes triple her weight, then don't expect people to believe that is somewhat realistic, because it isn't. It's just a feminist fantasy.

 

[WelshBluebird]

You can do your videogame as unrealistic as you want, but if you try to do a more realistic game and use a female to beath dudes triple her weight, then don't expect people to believe that is somewhat realistic, because it isn't. It's just a feminist fantasy.

AC isn't trying to be realistic. Its a science fiction / fantasy series based in different historical settings.
TLOU isn't trying to be realistic. It is a zombie survival series.
Don't mistake artistic style (the games trying to look visually realistic) to the theme of the game, as the two examples above are about as far from realistic as you can get in that department. Unless you can show me someone that has invented an Animus, or somewhere where real zombies live.

 

[Elcid]

Honestly I don't think they can write women these days. The best woman they wrote in recent time was Evie, BUT Jacob was well done too, so I could have gone either way. Evie was good, but not better than Jacob, thus the problem there, so having both be playable worked well.
Kassandra and Aya were both meh.
Aveline was actually awesome and one of my favorite assassins, but they're so "muh social justice" right now that they'd probably end up going more along the lines of Wolfenstein 2 characters than Aveline. That or a fucking linebacker for the Eagles will be used as the character model.
Women are feminine, stop trying to write "empowered women", that are just men with a female model. Which is literally what Kassandra is btw.
Give me something like an Aloy or an Aveline and I'll like it, but I just don't trust Ubisoft to be able to do that today.

 

[Jon Neu]

AC isn't trying to be realistic. Its a science fiction / fantasy series based in different historical settings.
TLOU isn't trying to be realistic. It is a zombie survival series.
Don't mistake artistic style (the games trying to look visually realistic) to the theme of the game, as the two examples above are about as far from realistic as you can get in that department. Unless you can show me someone that has invented an Animus, or somewhere where real zombies live.

You are contradicting the statements of the people making those games. You can make a game about zombies and apart from the zombies, be as realistic and grounded in reality as possible. Even how the zombies are created is based on a real fungus.

 

[StormCell]

Two things I am finding an issue in this thread:

1. The assumption that a female lead = worse writing. Which of course is BS. What is the case though is that having a choice of character splits the writing / voice acting etc work, effectively doubling it in some cases (take voice acting - you have X dollars to spend on lead character voice acting, with one character you can pay all of that for one voice actor so will be able to pay for a better actor, if you have two characters you have to split that same budget so will only be able to afford cheaper voice actors). So it stands to reason that having a choice will likely have a detrimental impact. So to those saying the executives were write in forcing a male character - consider that by them forcing the option to choose - they fundamentally affected the effort that could be put into writing / voice acting etc. A female only lead game probably would have had a higher quality of writing / voice acting as they whole attention could have been spent on one character.
2. The constant whinging about how attractive or not, or how manly looking or not, a female character is. Guess what - female characters don't just exist for neckbeard idiots to get their rocks off too. I'm sure the same people aren't complaining how unattractive male characters in games can be.

1. I am not sure you can take data about choices when a choice is offered vs how much someone cares if a choice isn't offered. They are two totally separate things.
2. What the hell does how ugly or not the character is have anything to do with if you'll buy the game or not? Or do you also base your purchasing decisions on how hot the male character in a game is too?

You're just way out of touch with this post. Both men and women prefer more attractive people. How many ugly dude models do you see in men's sporting ads? Those guys are always clean cut and fit. Straight up no one wants to look at unattractive people for hours on end.

 

[Neofire]

Good it got stopped, enough virtue signaling.

 

[Shmunter]

For Odyssey I chose Kassandra as my first protagonist and she was a lesbian and bedded every woman.

For my second playthrough I chose Alexios and he was a big time ladies man!

I’m just picturing your 3rd playthrough

 

[the_master]

Ultimately it's a business decision. Majority of the rpg players like to play as male characters. If you remove the gender option from the game some people won't have a problem with it, BUT there will be those ignoring the game because of no male protagonist.

For me personally it wouldn't matter in AC Odyssey if Kassandra was the only available character, but I wouldn't even consider buying AC Valhalla if a female Eivor was the only option (especially with her current fugly character model).

The point is that this decisions impair the creative freedom of the developers. This is just an example but it happens constantly in all games, in all directions, this includes choices you as a player may like but also to some you will not like. The point is that the developers are the ones who care about the quality of the game, what we carea bout, the others care more about business.

 

[MisterBrimstone]

Replace the blades with poisonous tea leaves and you got yourself a game. Viagra pills in the husbands soup, you know, the works! That's a female assassin for you.

 

[Rikoi]

Why not?

The answer is in the exact post you quoted. You are just pretending it's not written.
No one would find 300 women fighting like spartan men realistic.

 

[Shai-Tan]

You can do your videogame as unrealistic as you want, but if you try to do a more realistic game and use a female to beath dudes triple her weight, then don't expect people to believe that is somewhat realistic, because it isn't. It's just a feminist fantasy.

you forgot the part where one dude destroying multiple opponents simultaneously is also a fantasy. If we wanted to adhere to reality it would be that war is chaos and the ones left standing are more lucky than they are skilled

 

[Jon Neu]

you forgot the part where one dude destroying multiple opponents simultaneously is also a fantasy. If we wanted to adhere to reality it would be that war is chaos and the ones left standing are more lucky than they are skilled

It's the requirement of videogame mechanics, you have to advance and kill enemies.

But do you believe it's more realistic to have a super athletic and strong dude doing it, or a toddler?

It's the same principle.

 

[diffusionx]

The point is that this decisions impair the creative freedom of the developers. This is just an example but it happens constantly in all games, in all directions, this includes choices you as a player may like but also to some you will not like. The point is that the developers are the ones who care about the quality of the game, what we carea bout, the others care more about business.

The developers want to make a successful, hit game as much as the business people do. You know why? Because they want to keep their jobs. Nobody is helped if a game underperforms, and AC games can sell a lot and still underperform. The truth is that both the business and creative people are heavily involved in these processes, especially for a game that costs 9 figures like AC.If you want true creative freedom, quit Ubishit and go make an indie game in your bedroom.

 

[dorkimoe]

Straight men probably make up at least 90% of the actual audience that buys these games and we unapologetically like attractive females. Making intentionally fugly females to please the feminist/male allies twitter crowd who don't buy video games is off-putting to their actual audience whether you want to admit it or not, it's a meme at this point and why we have topics here that compare female video game characters to popular male wrestlers.

I never cared either way who the main character is, but once I played Abby in last of us...its distracting how weird that character model is. Hell even ugly females dont want to see ugly females.

 

[diffusionx]

I never cared either way who the main character is, but once I played Abby in last of us...its distracting how weird that character model is. Hell even ugly females dont want to see ugly females.

I'm never going to play that shitshow, but I don't mind playing as a female character, really. HZD is one of my fave games this gen. But this stuff, and the PC Gamer cuck's article, reminds me of when Kathleen Kennedy started wearing that "force is female" shirt... yea Nu-SW wasn't for me, so I'm not going to support it. They say they're trying to be inclusive or whatever but we all know what's going on. There comes a point when the constant grrrrl power just gets too obvious and it becomes clear these games aren't for me anymore. I would say an endless parade of stunning and brave Assassins Creed games where a tiny 110 pound female uses a sword and spear to kill hundreds of hulking male soldiers in between "exploring gender roles" would get pretty close to that.

 

[brian0057]

I pitty any writter on any medium that has to write a female protagonist in the year our lord 2020 .
You can do things to a male protagonist that people would be Ok with but the moment you swap the genders, anything you do to her is scrutinized under an electron microscope.

People bitched and moaned when the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot had Lara go through some gruesome deaths but Isaac Clark or Leon in RE4 can have their heads chopped off and everyone will be none the wiser.

You have to be really good and really careful when writing a female lead and not piss off the vast majority of the internet.
Look at what happened when Kassandra got pregnant. Everyone threw a hissy fit even though it made sense for the lore of the series "You're reducing her to her reproductive organs. This game is sexist."

And people wonder why white males comprise the majority of game leads.

 

[Paracelsus]

you forgot the part where one dude destroying multiple opponents simultaneously is also a fantasy. If we wanted to adhere to reality it would be that war is chaos and the ones left standing are more lucky than they are skilled

Resident Evil has zombies and mutants. Chris does more damage with weapons, takes way more damage and runs faster.
Jill defeated Nemesis, she still couldn't push the heavy bell in the clock tower.

The problem is not having both man and woman but how you want them.
In TLOU2 you have a woman that plays like a rogue, which makes perfect sense, and a woman that is built, looks and plays like Conan the Barbarian. That's jarring.

Look at the end to TLOU2.
If they knew gameplay is the excuse to everything, they would've let Abby retain her NFL body to fight Ellie, because gameplay is fantasy so there was no reason to shrink her. Ellie can just punch the hell out of Abby like Nadine did to Drake.

The main reason shrunk Abby because Ellie overpowering Abby as big as she was would look like absolute ****. That's how you know Abby's design was bad.
They also made it to make her look pitiable, but that's only part of the story.

 

[Rikoi]

I never cared either way who the main character is, but once I played Abby in last of us...its distracting how weird that character model is. Hell even ugly females dont want to see ugly females.

If you think about it, nobody like fugly characters, be it either male or female.

The reason we get these characters is for the trans community (or so they say?) because they need representation. Do they need to identify with the main character being a trans too? Guess so. How many of them actually play?

Then they release the game and find out that the majority of the players wants to identify as the male character and don't give a shit about the trans-like character, and they are surprised! Really?
We also have people in this thread saying that it makes no sense to identify as the character, when the reason we get trans-like character is to let the trans community identify in the character in the first place.
The only reason why most men would choose the female character is because it's attractive to look at, I don't care if someone find that sexist, weird, or whatever, it's the reality.
If you want more men to play a female character make it attractive, if I have to choose a woman looking like a man I'll pick the original.

 

[Thugnificient]

you forgot the part where one dude destroying multiple opponents simultaneously is also a fantasy.

Nah, I can do that.

 

[Dodkrake]

Please explain with your mature, grown up brain why having this kind of female lead being forced in this kind of videogames is supposed to be a good thing and what it's going to realistically accomplish.

I don't need to explain anything as I'm not the one feeling emasculated with female lead characters. I care about the character being the right fit for the game, not its gender or likeness. What I read from this thread is a lot of pseudo bad boys feeling emasculated by a female lead and a lot of immature children feeling upset because said female lead is not "pretty" or "sexy", as if they need that to jerk off.