People who have worthwhile arguments always say things like "I'm done arguing" and "this is my last reply to you". Great arguments also stem from stuff like "I've seen lots of stuff but won't link any of it even in PMs because then you might see I'm wrong." Know who else saw all this? Every critic who's praising the game and its writing. Wait, that's right, it's all paid for, even the youtubers praising it are paid for because clearly anyone else would have trouble with Tommy not reacting fast enough, clearly everyone should know this was bad writing except the only people complaining about it are people who read/watch out of context leaks/spoilers, weird right?
Bro, you are incapable of arguing without assigning motive. Stop it, you are hurting your own argument by doing so.
I’m not linking you to anything because I don’t have links to the videos, they get taken down very quickly. I have the footage myself so I don’t have to chase links.
I don’t think anyone is paid off to give the game a good rating. Publishers don’t need to pay them off. The machinery of game releases doesn’t incentivize critical, thorough reviews. All of this makes game reviews
less trustworthy; notice I did not say
completely. I don’t look at reviews for any sort of guidance on what to buy. I can generally tell if I’ll be interested in a game or not when I see it myself.
Even if it's Owen with a shotgun that still highlights the idea that people were standing around already armed, the idea would be at some point when we're not seeing her she takes the shotgun from Owen and I guess your assumption would be Tommy is meant to not only fully notice this but instantly recognize what it means?
Not people, person. Owen is the only one with a weapon out. Tommy should think it‘s a bit odd, when everyone else has holstered their weapons. It’s understood that Owen transfers the shotgun to Abby off-screen, nobody needs that explained. This is something that Tommy could see as well. One could forgive this, but could have been written better.
I notice you gave up on the idea that she had it aimed at Joel prior to her being shown, because the video evidence proves you wrong, the video I saw cuts to Abby and as she's speaking she aims it at Joel. The amount of time anyone would have to react to that is amazingly small, especially a couple old timers.
She didn’t have it aimed at him. She had it readied and she was facing Joel. The only person in the room with a weapon out and readied. A weapon that would have had to be given to her by Owen in full view of Tommy. This should have prompted Tommy to do or say something. Even if we forgive this, it’s still bad.
Usually people you save from near death don't behave like this. You can say they should know better but most the time someone is dangerous in their world you can see it by how they look, Abby's group looks well dressed, well nourished... they don't look like they need to kill two dudes for what they've got on them and that's the normal threat other people pose.
Abby’s group is militia and dressed as such. They have WLF patches on their shoulders. This should have given Joel or Tommy pause. We could grant that maybe in the craziness they didn’t notice the patches, but you can’t overlook the dress. They are obviously paramilitary.
Why does it even matter they tell them their names for instance? The only reason it's a problem to do that is because the character Abby is looking for Joel, in order for him to recognize he shouldn't tell anyone his name is Joel he'd have to understand there's someone out for revenge on him years after the events of TLOU 1. That's irrational, why would he believe that? Like would it really have been a better written scene if they were gave fake names or withheld their names? If they refused to enter the room because there's too many armed people (if they wanted to kill them they were already outnumbered and outgunned)? If Tommy yelled something out in the few seconds there was to realize what was occurring? Nah, none of this would have changed a damn thing.
It matters because it’s clunky and out of character. They survived together a long time before this game and the first. Joel doesn’t like when Ellie reveals her name to Sam and Henry, and it’s not because he doesn’t want anyone to know she’s “Ellie, the immune girl.” because nobody knows except a small group of the Fireflies. He didn’t want to exchange names because he didn’t want to give up any information that could be used. He didn’t know Sam and Henry and didn’t know that they could be trusted yet.
Also, you don't know what a plot hole is, a character not doing the most logical thing IS NOT a plot hole. Yeah, weird that Joel just sits there after taking a shot to his knee, almost like he's in tremendous pain. I'm sure you're some amazing writer, clearly.
From Wikipedia: In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. Such inconsistencies include things as illogical, unlikely or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline. The term is more loosely also applied to "loose ends" in a plot – side-lined story elements that remain unresolved by the end of the plot.
This scene could be tightened up with some changes and leaving the major moment as it is.
- Abby walks in and instead of just saying “You have no idea.” to Owen she also says “It’s him.” in a whispered tone. He says “You sure?” she says “Certain.” This cues Owen in on what‘s about to go down. In the scene as it is, the only person in the know is Abby herself. We’ve established by preceding scenes that Owen cares about Abby and wants what she wants. This is the perfect opportunity to get that without endangering their entire group and calling all of Jackson down on their heads. It’s perfect dumb luck. You could even consider it a plot hole that they just happened to run into the two of them, if you wanted. It’s insanely convenient.
- Owen places the shotgun on the recliner by the other door for Abby to grab and moves over near Tommy as everyone is chatting. Owen, knowing what’s gonna happen positions himself close to Tommy so that when it kicks off he can restrain him or hit him.
- A quick glance between the two (Abby and Owen) while Tommy is introducing himself to Mel, then Owen grabs Tommy and chokes him unconscious and at the same time Abby, off-screen, has grabbed the shotgun and lets off a shell into Joel’s knee and he falls forward.
- Abby yells “Take his gun!“ and Manny comes into frame and takes Joel’s pistol off of him. They are militia, they should know to disarm someone.
- The scene proceeds as it did before, Manny and Tall Guy place him against the glass, Mel tourniquets his leg, Abby grabs a golf club, Owen has him guarded with the shotgun and he has absolutely no way to fight back.
I’m not a writer at all. I like critiques though. I don’t know if they had other people involved in the writing process or if it was just Neil and Halley, but if you’re not an excellent writer, it’s best to have people around you who can point these sorts of things out. There’s no shame in it. It’s also perfectly fine to like something that’s badly written. I like The Dark Knight Rises, but it has lots of plot holes and is overall badly written.
