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[IkarugaDE]

50$ difference is already a big(ger) loss for Sony. I expect the same price for both with some extra on the discless (free game, ps+ subscription, whatever). They will likely be selling both models at a loss, giving something extra on the discless instead of lowering the price will minimize the loss considerably.
I'm all for the digital version, I haven't touched a game disc in 5 years, I don't own a single bluray movie and the disc drive of my launch ps4 has only given me trouble (first was the eject button, then the drive itself).

Selling both consoles at the same price (even if the DE has few additional accessories/goodies) would still make the DE almost superfluous.

Here we have to think a little further:
1. Games in the store generate more revenue even with the same prices for the disc versions
2. Games in the store usually stay at the starting price for a longer time, while disk versions are cheaper to buy online and in stores
3. Due to the lack of the possibility to use second-hand games, the DE version generally has a greater potential to generate income from game sales

Let's say that the DE version might cost 30-40$ less to produce, the difference would still be 60-70$ if the console is sold 100$ under the PS5 with a drive. I think it is very realistic that this gap can be quickly filled with "digital only".

 

[XO_o]

Same design

 

[zaitsu]

It will be sold at cheaper price not because of the missing disc drive. But because the only way to purchase games is digitally which are more expensive and have higher profit margins. There is none of shipping and physical product production costs. It can be sold cheaper and the game software sales cover the rest. Its will be 399 and 499

Exactly. Its cheaper because in the end Sony would earn much more on it than on disc version.

 

[Fordino]

Fellas, 1 question

What if microsoft drops the bombshell every game is 60fps/ 4k!

Do you think sony underpowered gpu could apply the reaponse or its graphical sacrificr?

Considering all Microsoft's exclusive titles will also be Xbox One games, it could be that their 60fps games, such as Forza and Halo, will actually run at 120fps on the Series X.

A lot of people will think that's amazing, but it will simply highlight how the Series X's power is being squandered, as it's basically running XBox One games with a higher frame rate, better textures, and a resolution increase.

Will be interesting to see if it happens, and what the reaction will be if so.

 

[XO_o]

Same design series x

 

[Ar¢tos]

Selling both consoles at the same price (even if the DE has few additional accessories/goodies) would still make the DE almost superfluous.

Here we have to think a little further:
1. Games in the store generate more revenue even with the same prices for the disc versions
2. Games in the store usually stay at the starting price for a longer time, while disk versions are cheaper to buy online and in stores
3. Due to the lack of the possibility to use second-hand games, the DE version generally has a greater potential to generate income from game sales

Let's say that the DE version might cost 30-40$ less to produce, the difference would still be 60-70$ if the console is sold 100$ under the PS5 with a drive. I think it is very realistic that this gap can be quickly filled with "digital only".

I expect the discless numbers to be small, maybe 1 in 10 or 2 in 10.
I don't see retailers being happy with having a discless version at launch. It's basically consumers saying "I'm here to get a discless console and never return to your store for the next 7 years".

It won't cost 30-40 less to produce, it will cost 20$ max less to produce. Sony can get millions of disc drives for peanuts each.
The ps4 bluray drive costed them 28$ in 2013.

 

[Uzupedro]

Hey, I haven't been here in a while, but look at this, it looks like the PS5 will have its own "BCpack" , and it sounds amazing
Sorry if repost.

 

[Shmunter]

I expect the discless numbers to be small, maybe 1 in 10 or 2 in 10.
I don't see retailers being happy with having a discless version at launch. It's basically consumers saying "I'm here to get a discless console and never return to your store for the next 7 years".

It won't cost 30-40 less to produce, it will cost 20$ max less to produce. Sony can get millions of disc drives for peanuts each.
The ps4 bluray drive costed them 28$ in 2013.

There needs to a pivot to redeemable codes this gen. Buy a case with a card inside. Will help keep competition alive and provide a mid point to physicality.

 

[zaitsu]

Hey, I haven't been here in a while, but look at this, it looks like the PS5 will have its own "BCpack" , and it sounds amazing
Sorry if repost.

"Oodle Texture improves the Kraken size reduction from only 3.5% on the baseline (lambda=0) encoding to 45% " - from Radtools website.

So if data are only textures 22GB/s seems pretty solid.
Bcpack fanboys wet dreams finally comes to an end.

 

[zaitsu]

"Oodle Texture improves the Kraken size reduction from only 3.5% on the baseline (lambda=0) encoding to 45% "
So if data are only textures 22GB/s seems pretty solid. Now lets see something similar on PC without CPU overhead.

 

[IkarugaDE]

I expect the discless numbers to be small, maybe 1 in 10 or 2 in 10.

You might be right about that, but I wouldn't bet on it either. If I'm honest, the digital edition would be enough for me, since 80% of my games are digital and I bought the majority of the disc games for a price similar to the one in the store. However, I also like to buy special and collectors editions from my favorite games, which is why the DE is not an option for me. In the end, the price will matter most.

I don't see retailers being happy with having a discless version at launch. It's basically consumers saying "I'm here to get a discless console and never return to your store for the next 7 years".

Sorry but that's not true. Two arguments: XBOX One S and PSP Go.

It won't cost 30-40 less to produce, it will cost 20$ max less to produce. Sony can get millions of disc drives for peanuts each.
The ps4 bluray drive costed them 28$ in 2013.

Oh please, let's not argue about $ 10 right now. Even with a $ 20 difference, my reasoning remains the same and I still believe that the DE will cost $ 100 less.

Let's see this from Sonys perspective:
They don't sell a second PS5 without a drive if sony didn't think it would pay off for them and there is a market for it. This also means that the potential customer must be given an incentive to buy. Is it an incentive to buy if both consoles cost the same or the DE is only $ 50 less?

Of course, Sony could sell both for the same price and add a few things to the DE. However, that would not make sense. Of course there are customers who would be happy about 12 months of PS Plus or other "gifts" (for example free games). But not every customer needs PS Plus, not every customer needs a special game. These would then buy the PS5 with a drive. Of course, the customers will stay with the PS5, but then it would have been pointless to bring a digital edition onto the market. The best incentive for the customer would be a significantly lower price so that they can decide for themselves what to buy for the money they saved.

I think that the financial advantage Sony has from the omission of the drive from the DE is also slightly underestimated. We should also not forget that the XBOX Series S is still possible - which would be a real competitor for Sony if both PS5s cost the same. The DE would only be a competitor for the Series S if it could keep up in price.

 

[Madjako]

I expect the discless numbers to be small, maybe 1 in 10 or 2 in 10.
I don't see retailers being happy with having a discless version at launch. It's basically consumers saying "I'm here to get a discless console and never return to your store for the next 7 years".

It won't cost 30-40 less to produce, it will cost 20$ max less to produce. Sony can get millions of disc drives for peanuts each.
The ps4 bluray drive costed them 28$ in 2013.

I predict a 50€/$ difference between the two versions

 

[Thirty7ven]

"Oodle Texture improves the Kraken size reduction from only 3.5% on the baseline (lambda=0) encoding to 45% "
So if data are only textures 22GB/s seems pretty solid.

 

[zaitsu]

I predict a 50€/$ difference between the two versions

The difference can't be this small. Sony would love to sell more DE beacuse in long run it will made much more money for them. I expect at least $100. If I buy DE and buy two games which i can't sell later to anther person, that another person will need to buy $120 games worth from store or PSstore - money goes to Sony not to me. Probably DISC edition will be exotic one on launch, pricey and very hard to get.

 

[Dodkrake]

I'm willing to place bets on pricing for this gen:

PS5 - 499€/$
Xbox Series X - 450€/$
PS5 digital - 400€/$
Xbox Series S - 300€/$

- Sales at end of year similar between MS and Sony (the one that can produce the most consoles will likely have more sales)
- Sales by the end of next year with Sony leading 3:2

 

[MasterCornholio]

Microsoft can't stop talking about 60fps and 120fps and I like that.

When it comes to actual developers I've only seen that Dolphin game mentioned to run at 120FPS. I'm not aware of any other titles on the XSX that run at that framerate.

Bcpack fanboys wet dreams finally comes to an end

From my understanding the XSX can also use Oodles Textures if they want.

 

[zaitsu]

I'm willing to place bets on pricing for this gen:

PS5 - 499€/$
Xbox Series X - 450€/$
PS5 digital - 400€/$
Xbox Series S - 300€/$

- Sales at end of year similar between MS and Sony (the one that can produce the most consoles will likely have more sales)
- Sales by the end of next year with Sony leading 3:2

My bets are like yours. If it's more lets pray for PC players for their hardware equivalent prices.

 

[zaitsu]

When it comes to actual developers I've only seen that Dolphin game mentioned to run at 120FPS. I'm not aware of any other titles on the XSX that run at that framerate.



From my understanding the XSX can also use Oodles Textures if they want.

Many people have stated that Sony wont't have any texture compression over Kraken, that's what I'm reffering as wet dream.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I think people that buy digitally buy more new games overall, as well as spending extra on “deluxe” versions and season passes.
The only people I know in my friends groups that are mad about discs are also mad about waiting a few weeks on a game they’re hyped for to try and save £5-10. They won’t buy a season pass unless they have to to stay with the group, they’re constantly selling new games they just completed and are just tight in general, despite having about the same disposable income.
They see any game on their shelf not currently being played as cash they can’t spend, and one of us from our group has bought GTA V (used) a few times as we’ve played online and then got bored of it before an update comes out that gets us all interested again.
Buying a used game lines the pockets of game shops while being entirely valueless to Sony and the developer.

I think the Digital Edition will cost massively less than the difference found in the Blu-ray drive cost price.
Digital sales are valuable every time to Sony and the developer, cut out the middle-man, and are typically done by impulse buyers and those who buy more games (that count) in general.

I expect a minimum of $50 less on PS5DE.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

I knew that bad mofo Cerny was under playing stuff. He left surprises for devs to see themselves. 22gb number wasn't put out there just cause. They would of stress test and hit that number multiple times to deem it note worthy. I guess this answers that unreal 8k texture stuff huh. RAD Gaming tools about to be bought by Sony if they haven't been already. Sony already own audiokinetic. So I can see it happening.

What do you reckon they hit. I say right now 9-12gb?? The number will rise as devs find tricks & upadtes roll out throughout the gen.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Many people have stated that Sony wont't have any texture compression over Kraken, that's what I'm reffering as wet dream.

Ok now I know what you mean. I've seen people claim that BCPak was an exclusive feature that would make texture streaming alot better. I'm happy that the PS5 has something similar. With the super fast decompressor developers should be able to achieve really high speeds with it. And that's with Sony being conservative with their figures.

 

[pasterpl]

When it comes to actual developers I've only seen that Dolphin game mentioned to run at 120FPS. I'm not aware of any other titles on the XSX that run at that framerate.

they mentioned 120fps specifically for gow5 and dirt 5 (maybe multiplayer only)

 

[Shmunter]

Ok now I know what you mean. I've seen people claim that BCPak was an exclusive feature that would make texture streaming alot better. I'm happy that the PS5 has something similar. With the super fast decompressor developers should be able to achieve really high speeds with it. And that's with Sony being conservative with their figures.

As if Sony would forget such a thing with their mandate for steamrolling bottlenecks and empowering devs. There was always going to be something, whatever fancy name it may have had.

 

[Elog]

Considering all Microsoft's exclusive titles will also be Xbox One games, it could be that their 60fps games, such as Forza and Halo, will actually run at 120fps on the Series X.

A lot of people will think that's amazing, but it will simply highlight how the Series X's power is being squandered, as it's basically running XBox One games with a higher frame rate, better textures, and a resolution increase.

Will be interesting to see if it happens, and what the reaction will be if so.

Based not what has been disclosed I believe this to be quite realistic. We need to see of course but I feel this is a likely scenario. Then the value proposition will be very different for the two consoles with a simplistic version reading: PS5=Graphics and XSX=FPS.

 

[oldergamer]

I'm not sure how this works exactly, but typically when you apply additional or compress things more, its at a cost of performance on both compression and decompression. So, I'm not certain the same numbers would still apply to PS5 decompression hardware. At least that is the way CPU's typically work.

Did this person say if there was any impact to decompression speed?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Oodle Texture is more efficient than BCPack, too.

RAD Game Tools have been around for a very long time, with their technology chosen and used across all platforms, and the team they have working on compression are excellent as shown by Oodle’s other formats that were selected to run on CPU instead of the open-source Zlib with dedicated hardware on PS4 and Xbox One.

Middle-wear is RAD’s bread and butter. It’s what they do for a living and they are an industry leader. You see their logo in a lot of splash screens and end credits.

Microsoft developing BCPack internally primarily saves licensing costs. It’s a one off fee from the cost of the small team you have working on it. From what I’ve seen from the guy working on it on Twitter, it’s still something in active development and not yet nailed down.

The Oodle licences Sony has bought for all PS4/PS5 software for any third-parties will not have been cheap.

I'm not sure how this works exactly, but typically when you apply additional or compress things more, its at a cost of performance on both compression and decompression. So, I'm not certain the same numbers would still apply to PS5 decompression hardware. At least that is the way CPU's typically work.

Did this person say if there was any impact to decompression speed?

Oodle Texture won’t have been a last minute thing, but known about and worked on as long as Kraken integration will have been.

The same developer that announced it being publicly ready has previously spoken about PS5’s decompression block and how it was a requirement that its speed is input bound. It can throw out data as fast as it can be fed.

 

[Shmunter]

I'm not sure how this works exactly, but typically when you apply additional or compress things more, its at a cost of performance on both compression and decompression. So, I'm not certain the same numbers would still apply to PS5 decompression hardware. At least that is the way CPU's typically work.

Did this person say if there was any impact to decompression speed?

The decompression on dedicated hardware will have a net effect of faster throughput otherwise there is no point to it. On pc it may be a different story if the cpu were to get saturated compromising everything else.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

The decompression on dedicated hardware will have a net effect of faster throughput otherwise there is no point to it. On pc it may be a different story if the cpu were to get saturated compromising everything else.

I can see AMD being even more relevant going forward. You’re going to need a shit load of general purpose CPU cores to decrypt a Kraken stream without hardware acceleration, while still needing free cores for the game itself. Not to mention the other hardware IO offloading.
Perfect ThreadRipper territory.

I’d be looking at a 24-Core going forward. Intel need to pull their finger out.

 

[Shmunter]

I can see AMD being even more relevant going forward. You’re going to need a shit load of general purpose CPU cores to decrypt a Kraken stream without hardware acceleration, while still needing free cores for the game itself. Not to mention the other hardware IO offloading.
Perfect ThreadRipper territory.

I’d be looking at a 24-Core going forward. Intel need to pull their finger out.

Pretty much

 

[zaitsu]

I can see AMD being even more relevant going forward. You’re going to need a shit load of general purpose CPU cores to decrypt a Kraken stream without hardware acceleration, while still needing free cores for the game itself. Not to mention the other hardware IO offloading.
Perfect ThreadRipper territory.

I’d be looking at a 24-Core going forward. Intel need to pull their finger out.

VRAM,RAM, threads, I/O, SSD - end of CPU Ghz and TF GPU builds. So much more things to spend money on this gen. Price of bruteforcing everything just went up.

 

[TheContact]

former Xbox marketing director and current Senior Manager for Product Management at Amazon Albert Penello gives his thoughts on the ps5 price:

 

[MasterCornholio]

they mentioned 120fps specifically for gow5 and dirt 5 (maybe multiplayer only)

Didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Soo good. Shameful that Polyphony has paper cut trees and bystanders in GT7. The F are they doing? SHAME! SHAME!

 

[Neo Blaster]

Oh, boy, looks like the old gentleman has just been replaced for that meme. Poor guy.

 

[ToadMan]

Based not what has been disclosed I believe this to be quite realistic. We need to see of course but I feel this is a likely scenario. Then the value proposition will be very different for the two consoles with a simplistic version reading: PS5=Graphics and XSX=FPS.

I think you’re missing a bit at the end.

XSX = last gen graphics at 120fps - after all these are xb1 games

 

[zaitsu]

Soo good. Shameful that Polyphony has paper cut trees and bystanders in GT7. The F are they doing? SHAME! SHAME!

GT7 still looks better than anything on the market. And it's from "slowly adapting" polyphony, maybe before end of next generation they show fully nextgen GT8.

 

[TBiddy]

former Xbox marketing director and current Senior Manager for Product Management at Amazon Albert Penello gives his thoughts on the ps5 price:

According to some of the more rabid people on this forum, Penello "doesn't know shit", so apparantly the PS5 will be 600$.

 

[zaitsu]

I think you’re missing a bit at the end.

XSX = last gen graphics at 120fps - after these are xb1 games

And probably in FULLHD

 

[Knitted Knight]

GT7 still looks better than anything on the market. And it's from "slowly adapting" polyphony, maybe before end of next generation they show fully nextgen GT8.

I think we need to stop cutting them slack when every other WWS is stepping up their game. Just cause they finally got their shit together with GT Sports doesn't mean we shouldn't demand a lot from them. They allowed bi-yearly Forza's from Turn10 to take them to task. Incompetence right there. I still think that studio needs a big shake up.

 

[MasterCornholio]

As if Sony would forget such a thing with their mandate for steamrolling bottlenecks and empowering devs. There was always going to be something, whatever fancy name it may have had.

It also makes me wonder about their equivalent to VRS. I mean it took this long to get Oodles Textures confirmed so maybe they still have to reveal more features like their version of VRS.

 

[saintjules]

Looks like People are already bidding on PS5 Consoles on ebay. $1475 currently.

Sony Playstation 5 PS5 Disc Version Pre Order Confirmed | eBay

<p dir="ltr">Up for sale is a confirmed pre order for the Sony Playstation 5. This is the disc version not the digital. I was able to pre order the console when they briefly came up so secure yours now without having to worry. This is a pre order item scheduled for release late November to early...

www.ebay.com

 

[saintjules]

former Xbox marketing director and current Senior Manager for Product Management at Amazon Albert Penello gives his thoughts on the ps5 price:

I don't think it will be $600 personally. But with two SKUs, I think $500. but who knows.

Really wished they said it during the reveal. I keep playing it back and felt like that price should have been shown. But eh, I guess there's reasons for it (ie. playing chicken with MS).

 

[FranXico]

The Oodle licences Sony has bought for all PS4/PS5 software for any third-parties will not have been cheap.

The cost of the license is included in the cost of the devkit, I would assume.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Looks like People are already bidding on PS5 Consoles on ebay. $1475 currently.

Sony Playstation 5 PS5 Disc Version Pre Order Confirmed | eBay

<p dir="ltr">Up for sale is a confirmed pre order for the Sony Playstation 5. This is the disc version not the digital. I was able to pre order the console when they briefly came up so secure yours now without having to worry. This is a pre order item scheduled for release late November to early...

www.ebay.com

Damn... scalpers making bank already

Consoles sold out everywhere too. This year is crazy.

 

[TheContact]

Looks like People are already bidding on PS5 Consoles on ebay. $1475 currently.

Sony Playstation 5 PS5 Disc Version Pre Order Confirmed | eBay

<p dir="ltr">Up for sale is a confirmed pre order for the Sony Playstation 5. This is the disc version not the digital. I was able to pre order the console when they briefly came up so secure yours now without having to worry. This is a pre order item scheduled for release late November to early...

www.ebay.com

a $1,500+ discless ps5 aside, here's his description:

Up for sale is a confirmed pre order for the Sony Playstation 5. This is the disc version not the digital. I was able to pre order the console when they briefly came up so secure yours now without having to worry. This is a pre order item scheduled for release late November to early December and will not ship until then. Once your order is placed there will be no cancelations. I will ship promptly same day once the console is in my hands fully insured.

I've ordered things in the past that were not supposed to have been listed, and my pre-order was simply canceled. I doubt his pre order is going to be fulfilled.

 

[MasterCornholio]

According to some of the more rabid people on this forum, Penello "doesn't know shit", so apparantly the PS5 will be 600$.

Or maybe he's just guessing here and really doesn't have any information on what the price will be.

 

[Kusarigama]

Do you folks think that with MS doin the entire "play your games the way you want to play" approach and "putting the consumer at the center of games" will allow onlike play on Xbox consoles for free like on PC?

They say both xbox and pc xbox live architecture is same and with all the xgs games coming to pc on same day, It seems like a rip-off to me that not only xbox owners are paying for your hardware but then you milk them to play online games too. On pc people get to not only decide what hardware they play like low mid high but they get online free. How is this practice anything consumer friendly?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Ok now I know what you mean. I've seen people claim that BCPak was an exclusive feature that would make texture streaming alot better. I'm happy that the PS5 has something similar. With the super fast decompressor developers should be able to achieve really high speeds with it. And that's with Sony being conservative with their figures.

You mean like dx12 and Sony's solution and apis? Only fanboys thought otherwise, come on bro Sony what has past gens taught us? That should have never been in doubt.

 

[pasterpl]

I think you’re missing a bit at the end.

XSX = last gen graphics at 120fps - after all these are xb1 games

Maybe it is true, but forza motorsport 8 will probably look better on xbonex than gt7 on ps5 (not even mentioning how fm8 will look on xbsex)

 

[zaitsu]

Maybe it is true, but forza motorsport 8 will probably look better on xbonex than gt7 on ps5 (not even mentioning how fm8 will look on xbsex)

XD