Pray tell, what percentage is being worked on in China? The Technical Director of graphics who's research and work this is based on Brian Karis as far as I know does not live in China. As far as I know, Epic Shanghai is an outsourcing studio and they have offices in various countries not just China.Considering how much work on this engine is being done in China and those guys have it, created the demo and ran it I'm more willing to believe the engineers vs someone doing PR control because Sony gave them fun bucks.
Pc is, was and always will be a superior platform. It's upgradeable, versatile and it's not owned or constrained by any owner (msoft, sony etc).
I'm not sure why people still think ps5 and xses are something revolutionary, they're really not. They are revolutionary for consoles, sure.
Don't believe the marketing spiel from msoft and Sony, it's the same shit every generation. I remember when ps3 was released, that Pachter guy was saying how hardly any pc can come close to ps3's level of power. It turned out to be a lie. Same as this new upcoming generation.
We're going to be getting shitposts like these until the new consoles are actually released, aren't we?
People are bored, between Sony's silence on PS5 and all other companies silence on games, there is little to talk about. Naturally when there is little to talk about, people seek things that outrage them.Good God I didn't think next gen shit posting could get any worse. These machines need to release tomorrow just so we can stop the nonsense. Save us M$ and Sony.
It's not the SSD that's special inside PS5, it's the architecture surrounding that SSD and how it works without bottlenecks on the hardware/software side, that's special, in combination with custom hardware decompressor (that is present to completely take the decompression workload off its Zen 2 CPU). This is what PS5 is being praised for. And this is where PC will be lagging behind for a couple of years. There will be drives faster than PS5's (without using RAID config) on PC by this year's end, but it doesn't mean anything if you don't minimize/eliminate bottlenecks on the kernel/hardware level on PC. Please watch Linus' latest vid on PS5. He too was misinformed due to 2nd hand information until he did the research, there's some good info and goes more in-depth about this matter and what this means for PCs.It was also proven that sweeny didn't know WTF he was talking about. Enough Chinese speakers proved him wrong already on the original video, he can damage control if he wants but until I see something where this SSD helps produce something that looks good and is actually playable I'm remaining skeptical.
and they do indeed, confirm 'mechanical' drives are holding up progress (same as old gen consoles, since they have by default mechanical drives)
is it not complete true to expect, a minimum requirement for pc games will be SSD required, in the near future.
if thats the case, then 100% the mechanical is the lowest common denominator?
PC will take over these consoles in no time. if anything needs to be changed in the architecture then that'll be done but otherwise in terms of raw specs PC will make these consoles look outdated really soon.
PCIE 5.0 is coming soon and we'll get SSDs of speeds up to 14GB/s. we're getting faster ram soon in DDR5 with speeds up to ~8000. 12TF will be budget/mid range soon too.
Yeah, I'll save you from embarrassing yourself. You can watch this and educate yourself.Who doesn't have an ssd these days? I don't think you can even buy a prebuilt without one. Anyway, welcome to 2010 console guys.
I have no intention of downplaying possible advances all this new tech can bring, but i do think the expectations are too overblown right now, even if we assume everything said will work exactly as expected.Again, some of the problem is price which will of course come down. I remember when SSDs even small SSDs were super expensive, and now I can grab a 120GB boot drive for like $20, and a 1TB NVMe drive for $130 every single day at Microcenter. The cheapest 1TB PCIe4 SSD I could find (quick search) was $195. Luckily that will come down sooner or later.
I do think it's disingenuous to downplay the SSD in the new consoles without anybody actually seeing the improvements it may make. There is always PR, and I agree that it's important to temper expectations. I believe even Linus mentions it in his apology video he did, but software makes a big difference. When the entire system is designed around it, it makes a difference. When the OS for PS5/SX is built around taking advantage of that SSD it will make a difference that you may not see on the PC end.
Everything at this point is conjecture. Nobody outside of the people working on them know what the result actually is. Both taking everything as gospel, and immediately discounting it is absolutely stupid.
I have no intention of downplaying possible advances all this new tech can bring, but i do think the expectations are too overblown right now, even if we assume everything said will work exactly as expected.
For example, both Sony's SSD and UE5 tech seem largely targeted at a certain trend of games, more specifically games with movie-like visuals and large open worlds. What if the trends change? What if, lets say, VR becomes the actual new thing for the next gen? In that case, GPU power would be much more important for the sake of keeping high-res and high FPS count.
A large reason for my comment was because OP's original thread title was somewhat sensationalistic, something like "PC MASTER RACE... TURNAROUND" or other. Of course, the question posed in the title now is much more reasonable.
Lol whole different experience isnt it.
Its just an example. There are other things that could happen too, like trends on advanced AI and advanced physics (better capitalized by powerful CPUs), coop (better capitalized by cross-play and acessibility than a closed platform) or, god forbid it, cloud gaming.Yeah but your scenario is very unlikely to happen. In my opinion VR will always be a niche market.
Its just an example. There are other things that could happen too, like trends on advanced AI and advanced physics (better capitalized by powerful CPUs), coop (better capitalized by cross-play and acessibility than a closed platform) or, god forbid it, cloud gaming.
Yeah, I'll save you from embarrassing yourself. You can watch this and educate yourself.
theirs so many amazing things these consoles can do its strange to have all focus on the SSD.
I'm sorry if you thought this was some sort of gotcha. I say again. Who doesn't have a ssd these days? Did you even read what I wrote?
Personally I don't think it's strange at all. People working in the industrie wished for this feature, for the removal of old bottlenecks.
I think it's reasonable to finally tackle this problem, to hear developers out.
Don't you think?
Its not about how many people have an SSD its about the bottleneck.
The title and Op quite clearly insinuates that PC gamers are somehow still using mechanical HDDs. He doesn't even mention PS5 once in the opening post, so I'm not sure what you are on about....
Well OP is wrong as bottleneck is not the mechanical drives its the IO.
Yes and No...
Yes things load faster, but considering the amount of storage space you "give up", I'd say its not good enough speeds yet.
It is a little like Cerny said in the "Road to PS5" you add an SSD/NVme thats 10times or 100times faster then a normal HDD but loading only reduce the loadtime a fraction of that speed.
Well, actually I meant both factors which cannot truly be separated.
The new console generation will most certainly improve in that regards and eliminate the bottlenecks around data streaming.
There was actually a very good counter argument I noticed.
PC can have much more RAM, which means it can brute force it's way through the problem.
The premise is probably going to be true. IMO AAA games are where you see advances in gaming. The vast majority of AAA games have been designed for consoles as the target since that is where they sell best. Next gen consoles will have SSDs. If a multiplatform next gen AAA game on PC allows it to run on a HDD, then PC is now the lowest common denominator.
Considering how much work on this engine is being done in China and those guys have it, created the demo and ran it I'm more willing to believe the engineers vs someone doing PR control because Sony gave them fun bucks.
I'm not sure how much spin has to happen in gaming to understand they still think most of us are 12 years old and can't tell what's happening. The SSD will be great for development, i'm sure it's gonna make up for it's lack of horsepower, but let's be real it won't be the world changing thing you think it is for an end user.
If PC so good why there no PC2??!
Really makes you think
This is the best thread I've seen in awhile, fucking console kids forgetting their place in reality.
Are we talking about SATA-based SSD with max 500 MB/s speeds? Even PS4 and Xbox One users have those in their consoles. Did you even watch the video I linked?I'm sorry if you thought this was some sort of gotcha. I say again. Who doesn't have a ssd these days? Did you even read what I wrote?
So what? He's not wrong, PCs will be the lowest common denominator while devs don't demand M.2 NVME drives as minimum requirements for their games.I feel like you pulled that quote from LTT in his apology video and you don't understand that consoles being ahead in some departments (because of new technologies emerging) is most probably a thing only for a time, as the PC is a platform that can constantly evolve.
If not, you're shitposting and I fell for it.
They can just demand normal SSD's + XX amount of RAM, that should be enough to do an equivalent port. Most gaming PCs nowaydays have 8GB - 16GB of RAM and as always this amount will just keep growing in oncoming years.So what? He's not wrong, PCs will be the lowest common denominator while devs don't demand M.2 NVME drives as minimum requirements for their games.
Yes, that could be an alternative. But expect games demanding 32GB-up beginning to appear some time after these consoles release.They can just demand normal SSD's + XX amount of RAM, that should be enough to do an equivalent port. Most gaming PCs nowaydays have 8GB - 16GB of RAM and as always this amount will just keep growing in oncoming years.
More specifically 16 minimum, 32 recommended. And 'some time' is a few years.Yes, that could be an alternative. But expect games demanding 32GB-up beginning to appear some time after these consoles release.
of course. It’s all marketing.
I mean otherwise he would give us details, he could easily prove those Chinese guys wrong, but he didn’t. Why? Because they aren’t wrong.
I mean just look at this:
suddenly, NDA lol but talking how PS5 ssd is the best ever is not NDA. But telling aus how much exactly bandwidth this demo used suddenly is NDA.
oh and this NDA ends next year. After holiday. After the launch of PS5. How convenient.
Sorry, but it’s all marketing crap. He should give us all the raw numbers, otherwise it’s just marketing crap.
Your delusion is hilarious.The idea that you'll see mass adoption of the latest and most expensive NVMe drives (in the multiple millions), that MS will somehow fix overhead issues with Windows on time on the software side, that motherboards will be redesigned and massively adopted and that millions of PC gamers will upgrade en masse and own equivalents of Zen 2 core CPUs and RTX2800s... and that these rigs will be mainstream at console's launch, in its first year or even in year 2.... ... ohhh and that it will be "cheap"....
What a pipedream. Here's what's guaranteed: Both Sony/MS will sell as many consoles as they can produce within their first year. (Provided MS releases quality software - has to be noted).
PC gamers will be holding consoles back for at least 1 1/2 year to 2 years until the whole PC manufacturing space starts addressing the bottlenecks and releasing the components at consumer friendly pricing. That is a guaranteed fact. The disbelief is this thread is amusing to say the least but not in the least unexpected.
OP don't worry about the flak. Wear a vest.
I've been storing videogames on SSD for the last five years or so. Good to see consoles catch up.So guys, I'm genuinely interested to find out if and how the PC market will slow down radical technical advancements in the upcoming console gereration.
We heard several comments from insiders, programmers and technical experts that all point to the same conclusion: The PC market has become the lowest common denominator.
- How will this influence technical progression?
- Is it even true or merely a hypothesis?
- Are PC gamers now considering to move over to the console market?
Personally I'm looking forward to the next generation and I'm eager to see new technical stuff which was not possible before. But if this shit is true, then my hopes have come to a halt. It would mean that only exclusive titles would profit from this upcoming technology.
It would mean that we could only profit from this technology in small and homeopathic dosages.
A real bummer.
So guys, proof my fears wrong, give me some hope.
So, what do you think?
PC gamers will be holding consoles back for at least 1 1/2 year to 2 years until the whole PC manufacturing space starts addressing the bottlenecks and releasing the components at consumer friendly pricing.
Just in time for tools to be ready to use themThe idea that you'll see mass adoption of the latest and most expensive NVMe drives (in the multiple millions), that MS will somehow fix overhead issues with Windows on time on the software side, that motherboards will be redesigned and massively adopted and that millions of PC gamers will upgrade en masse and own equivalents of Zen 2 core CPUs and RTX2800s... and that these new rigs will be mainstream at console's launch, in year 1 or even in year 2.... ... ohhh and that they'll come with "consumer friendly pricing"....
What a pipedream. Here's what's guaranteed: Both Sony/MS will sell as many consoles as they can produce within their first year. (Provided MS releases quality software - has to be noted).
PC gamers will be holding consoles back for at least 1 1/2 year to 2 years until the whole PC manufacturing space starts addressing the bottlenecks and releasing the components at consumer friendly pricing. That is a guaranteed fact. The disbelief is this thread is amusing to say the least but not in the least unexpected.
OP don't worry about the flak. Wear a vest.
The idea that you'll see mass adoption of the latest and most expensive NVMe drives (in the multiple millions), that MS will somehow fix overhead issues with Windows on time on the software side, that motherboards will be redesigned and massively adopted and that millions of PC gamers will upgrade en masse and own equivalents of Zen 2 core CPUs and RTX2800s... and that these new rigs will be mainstream at console's launch, in year 1 or even in year 2.... ... ohhh and that they'll come with "consumer friendly pricing"....
What a pipedream. Here's what's guaranteed: Both Sony/MS will sell as many consoles as they can produce within their first year. (Provided MS releases quality software - has to be noted).
PC gamers will be holding consoles back for at least 1 1/2 year to 2 years until the whole PC manufacturing space starts addressing the bottlenecks and releasing the components at consumer friendly pricing. That is a guaranteed fact. The disbelief is this thread is amusing to say the least but not in the least unexpected.
OP don't worry about the flak. Wear a vest.
But that's the thing, isn't it?
'The mass consumer market.'
Has anyone serious numbers on these fuckers?
It sure sounds like most people have already SSD with appropriate RAM.
I argue in good faith, so don't you fuck around with me PC dudes!
I just wonder how long it will be before mechanical drives become a thing of the past........like, as in they won't even bother to really sell them anymore. I know there are a lot of factors involved before they can be phased out completely.....like SSD's reaching the higher GB's that mechanical drives can without being priced in the stratosphere for one thing. But still, computer tech ages in dog years. So....what? Mechanical HDD's have like a couple more years? Five years? A decade? Or will they not go away for a much longer time?
mechanical drive are cheap if you need to store things.I just wonder how long it will be before mechanical drives become a thing of the past........like, as in they won't even bother to really sell them anymore. I know there are a lot of factors involved before they can be phased out completely.....like SSD's reaching the higher GB's that mechanical drives can without being priced in the stratosphere for one thing. But still, computer tech ages in dog years. So....what? Mechanical HDD's have like a couple more years? Five years? A decade? Or will they not go away for a much longer time?