Tomeru
Member
Lmao, this is the best you got? Discomfort? The amount of denial is too damn high.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Last of Us: Part II - State of Play announced 05/27 (1pm PT / 4pm ET / 9pm UK)
- Thread starter JareBear: Remastered
- Start date
Lmao, this is the best you got? Discomfort? The amount of denial is too damn high.
Jon Neu
Banned
I have already outlined the agenda he is trying to push. I mean, it’s not rocket science precisely.
And I have never said it ruined any game for me, but again, you are so triggered that you are incapable of thinking in any nuances.
yeeeeeezy
Banned
Just saying someone has an agenda isn’t a critique. You need to critique what’s wrong with the actual agenda. We all have agendas. Most in opposition to tlou2 have a political agenda against it.Got nothing against anyone's sexual orientation. In fact when I visit the hub I watch some lesbo vids
it cant be denied that Druckmann has an agenda(he said it himself) and that he's buddy buddy with Sarkeesian (not a positive thing in my book)
Jon Neu
Banned
Yes, I would describe it as discomfort. Sorry if that word is too little for the magnitute of your tragedy.
And the only denial I see is with people still trying to play dumb and pretend that there isn’t any political agenda.
Explain with your own words what's so bad about this "agenda" that Neil Druckman apparently has.
Last edited:
Tomeru
Member
The issue you are failing to notice is that you behave as if your right to think one thing is being threatened. Its not. It's a video game. No agendas are being pushed, only ideals. The struggle with this sjw agenda is all in your head.
shubik
Member
I must have missed that part. would you mind linking me or posting it as a quote again? I would really like to know what you think. otherwise, we can´t have a discussion. But something tells me you don´t have an interest in that either way.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Well yeah that's the thing. If we were to start getting into it, what does he mean by "non-sexualised"? We could ask some questions.
I assume he just means normal looking women. You know, dressed in regular everyday clothes. But is that all "sexualised" can mean, just how someone looks & dresses?
Were all those people sexualising Chloe & Nadine when they drew all the fan art of them getting married & stuff?
Did Neil himself sexualise Ellie, when he made that first trailer of her kissing Dina, in loving close-up meticulously animated detail?
But like I said, these things are another debate that could rumble on & on & on... I just wanted to say that he does have an agenda & people should be free to decide one way or another if that bothers them.
I've got nothing against his agenda, as he described it in that speech. He's, at least partly, created some of the most memorable characters in gaming at this point. Like Ellie.
Jon Neu
Banned
Oh shit, another one of those “allies” incapable of any nuance that jumps to conclusions
First, I don’t think anything is threatened. And If I did, it would be my opinion and everybody is entitled to one, not only Neil Cuckmann and the people happy with his agend... sorry, I mean his ideals.
Yes, it’s a videogame. A videogame made by someone who thinks Anita Sarkeesian, the crazy third wave feminist, is some kind of hero.
He is entitled to have his ideals and further them into their games in the form of a political agenda, like he literally says he does.
Ans everybody else is entitled to say that forcing your ideals into a videogame is not something they like, especially if those ideals are toxic and authoritarian.
Go to the leaks thread, everything is there.
I don’t think you want to have an honest discussion neither, seeing how loaded your questions are.
shubik
Member
Oh shit, another one of those “allies” incapable of any nuance that jumps to conclusions
First, I don’t think anything is threatened. And If I did, it would be my opinion and everybody is entitled to one, not only Neil Cuckmann and the people happy with his agend... sorry, I mean his ideals.
Yes, it’s a videogame. A videogame made by someone who thinks Anita Sarkeesian, the crazy third wave feminist, is some kind of hero.
He is entitled to have his ideals and further them into their games in the form of a political agenda, like he literally says he does.
Ans everybody else is entitled to say that forcing your ideals into a videogame is not something they like, especially if those ideals are toxic and authoritarian.
Go to the leaks thread, everything is there.
I don’t think you want to have an honest discussion neither, seeing how loaded your questions are.
You are full of shit mate
You still were not able to tell me what exactly you mean. Why do I have to go to a different thread like a fucking groupie to get your opinion? Put your money where your mouth is or GTFO.You are full of shit mate
People with no real opinion on a matter act exactly like that they either 1. Copy Paste you shit they've taken elsewhere 2. They link you some videos 3. They say shit like "it's clear if you don't see it you are blind".
joe_zazen
Member
You are full of shit mate
you are an ass.
shubik
Member
why?
joe_zazen
Member
personal insults and being a dick without any substance. Here is how to be a dick with some substance, which makes things more entertaining:
it is a stupid videogame about zombies with roided up lesbians stabbing heads and torching dogs. The agenda is simply having homocidal angry women as the leads instead of men in order to shift society towards some new state of equality, cause death of patriarchy, create socialist revolution, kill religions, and whatever else people want after their first year theory course.
some people find that particular political injection uncomfortable.
/////////
see it gives something to talk about and wont degenerate into namecalling. Or at least it shouldnt. But just dropping insults and not engaging with the topic is bad posting. Take advantage of the freedom here to idea clash. If you just want to lob insults, 4chan is better as they have no tone polocing.
yeeeeeezy
Banned
Your performance is just as embarrassing in there. I’ve asked you for specifics several times in there and you’re just as vague in your answers as you are here. That tends to happen when the source material doesn’t back up your theories.
shubik
Member
So If Ellie was a male, everything would have been fine?
Tomeru
Member
How about you cut the crap and tell us what you really think?
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
So if it hasn't ruined any games for you, then why do you care about what Naughty Dog does with their games??
BlitzerRadic
Member
According to Sony, PS4 is 10x more powerful than PS3.
It is impossible for a developer making a sequel to their game on 10x more powerful hardware to only have (according to you) "slightly cleaner graphics. If you actually believe that, the only explanation is that you need to have your eyes checked. I don't need any ophthalmology creds to know when someone is blind as a bat.
Dory16
Banned
Actually I tell you what, looking at the uncompressed 4k feeds that came out today, I have slightly changed my opinion. It looks like TLOU1 remastered edition with cleaner graphics.
I wonder if the game is in native 4k but not holding my breath.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
You guys are thinking way too deeply into it
Last edited:
Tomeru
Member
Damn, he got told!
Jigsaah
Gold Member
But it will be optimzed for the pro in someway right? Higher Resolution then...maybe?
Probably not framerate.
GymWolf
Member
Probably 1440p like unchy4, i think they alredy confirmed this somewhere...
Jayjayhd34
Member
Nope still unconfirmed what pro enhancements we will have.
GymWolf
Member
Well i don't expect more than that, the game seems bigger and more heavy than unchy4.
It depends on how far you want to take it.
I'd say that fanbases '' shipping '' characters and the way that some people excessively obsess about these characters and their relationships is objectifying tho and often times they do sexualize it.
Whether Ellie is being sexualized and/ or objectified tho I think boils down to the intent of the writers, if the intent was really just to use her to try and pat themselves on the back or something. But I don't think that anyone except them can know that for sure.
Jayjayhd34
Member
I do agree doubt their be much between the two.
On a unrelated note is this site running slower normal?
Audiophile
Member
I'll copy/paste and extend a prior post of mine to save me typing again:
Regarding the game itself, even though I find the overly woke/SJW approach to many pieces of entertainment to be exhausting, insulting and totally counter-predictive. I'm willing to give ND as a developer the benefit of the doubt for the time being and make my own decision on the game. Even if I have fundamental disagreements with the likes of Druckman's acquaintances like Anita Sarkeesian, ND have yet to forgo quality in the name of agenda in a final product. If they set a precedent for doing so here then my mind may very well change going forward.
To get an idea of my personal outlook, my only issue in regards to trans people is the proposition of legally/professionally compelled speech regarding pronouns, trans athletes, transitioning children and forced equity vs equal opportunity. Outside of that, I'm all for people identifying how they like and being who they feel they are; and I think they deserve all the respect the content of their character commands, just like anyone else.
I think the gay/lesbian movement was fundamentally a libertarian movement, it was a case of "let us be who we want to be". And the trans movement may very well have started out with the same good intentions but has unfortunately -- in parts at least -- morphed into a more authoritarian movement that can often directly encroach upon fundamental freedoms.
There's no reason why trans, gay or lesbian people can't be featured in any piece of entertainment and I think it's easy to fall into the trap of, there must be a specific reason for them to be included which directly relates to them being as they are in terms of gender identity or sexuality.
My concern however, and one that has so often been proven right in recent years is that the aforementioned gender identity, sexuality (and even ethnicity) is often presented as the entirety of their being; so much so that the quality and substance of the characters and the story is reduced to that. Alongside this is a total lack of subtlety. We often see hand-me-down characters and franchises with characters reduced to soulless husks. Or characters that serve only to be the "LGBTQ guy/gal". I find it bizarre that this is often celebrated by many of those most vocal in the community; it seems to be that it would be insulting more than anything.
Perhaps ND have introduced a trans character with substance, where their persuasion or identity doesn't present the entirety of their being and it simply serves as a point of motivation or as a catch in the story. Or, perhaps like most creatives as of late, they've shoehorned them in just to be woke and they'll try to smash you round the face with it. We don't know yet..
What has me hopeful at least, is that these characters are supposedly deeply flawed and hell-bent on revenge. This is a big deal, as a lot of the SJW crowd have been obsessed about trans, gay, lesbian or ethnic-minority characters being presented in a positive fashion all the time. True representation isn't all puppy dogs and rainbows and will often be unflattering, not because they're trans for eg. but because they're human.
To be truly represented, included or accepted isn't always to be positively represented, but sometimes negatively too. It's to sometimes be the butt of a joke, without reservation...not because you're trans/gay etc.; even if that is the subject of the joke. But because like anyone else, you're probably flawed, fucked up and idiosyncratic in one way or the other. When people stop making exceptions for you, that is acceptance, when "acceptance" isn't even a conscious decision or a point of contention, it just kinda is.
I'm quietly hopeful for the time being.
If what matters solely to anyone is that there are gay, lesbian, trans or whatever people in the game then I'd argue your only contributing to the divisiveness just as those on the opposite side of the fence do when they demand total compliance. I believe however, that myself and many others just want quality to take precedence and not be relegated to the sidelines in favour of other things, to not be patronised.
No one helps anyone, on either side, by being vitriolic or calling people names. The two extremes often construct straw-mans, an extreme example they can hold up as something to argue against and people play into it time and time again. They slowly get suckered into that extreme and you only serve to give those with an opposing argument more ammo. By doing this anyone trying to pose a reasoned, nuanced argument will be lumped in with one or the other by those less reasonable; you can lean 1% in one direction or 1% in the other and as far as they're concerned, you're 100% of the way in that direction.
What it all comes down to with me, as alluded to above, is... When it comes to a person what matters is are you decent and are you well reasoned? When it comes to art and entertainment, does quality and effectiveness come first?
Whatever you do, don't be like the guy in this tweet wherever your argument may lay, you only serve to strengthen opposing arguments, make the arguments of yourself and those around you less effective; and make yourself look an idiot. Cory was the better guy here whatever your disagreements may be with him and his ilk.
Regarding the game itself, even though I find the overly woke/SJW approach to many pieces of entertainment to be exhausting, insulting and totally counter-predictive. I'm willing to give ND as a developer the benefit of the doubt for the time being and make my own decision on the game. Even if I have fundamental disagreements with the likes of Druckman's acquaintances like Anita Sarkeesian, ND have yet to forgo quality in the name of agenda in a final product. If they set a precedent for doing so here then my mind may very well change going forward.
To get an idea of my personal outlook, my only issue in regards to trans people is the proposition of legally/professionally compelled speech regarding pronouns, trans athletes, transitioning children and forced equity vs equal opportunity. Outside of that, I'm all for people identifying how they like and being who they feel they are; and I think they deserve all the respect the content of their character commands, just like anyone else.
I think the gay/lesbian movement was fundamentally a libertarian movement, it was a case of "let us be who we want to be". And the trans movement may very well have started out with the same good intentions but has unfortunately -- in parts at least -- morphed into a more authoritarian movement that can often directly encroach upon fundamental freedoms.
There's no reason why trans, gay or lesbian people can't be featured in any piece of entertainment and I think it's easy to fall into the trap of, there must be a specific reason for them to be included which directly relates to them being as they are in terms of gender identity or sexuality.
My concern however, and one that has so often been proven right in recent years is that the aforementioned gender identity, sexuality (and even ethnicity) is often presented as the entirety of their being; so much so that the quality and substance of the characters and the story is reduced to that. Alongside this is a total lack of subtlety. We often see hand-me-down characters and franchises with characters reduced to soulless husks. Or characters that serve only to be the "LGBTQ guy/gal". I find it bizarre that this is often celebrated by many of those most vocal in the community; it seems to be that it would be insulting more than anything.
Perhaps ND have introduced a trans character with substance, where their persuasion or identity doesn't present the entirety of their being and it simply serves as a point of motivation or as a catch in the story. Or, perhaps like most creatives as of late, they've shoehorned them in just to be woke and they'll try to smash you round the face with it. We don't know yet..
What has me hopeful at least, is that these characters are supposedly deeply flawed and hell-bent on revenge. This is a big deal, as a lot of the SJW crowd have been obsessed about trans, gay, lesbian or ethnic-minority characters being presented in a positive fashion all the time. True representation isn't all puppy dogs and rainbows and will often be unflattering, not because they're trans for eg. but because they're human.
To be truly represented, included or accepted isn't always to be positively represented, but sometimes negatively too. It's to sometimes be the butt of a joke, without reservation...not because you're trans/gay etc.; even if that is the subject of the joke. But because like anyone else, you're probably flawed, fucked up and idiosyncratic in one way or the other. When people stop making exceptions for you, that is acceptance, when "acceptance" isn't even a conscious decision or a point of contention, it just kinda is.
I'm quietly hopeful for the time being.
If what matters solely to anyone is that there are gay, lesbian, trans or whatever people in the game then I'd argue your only contributing to the divisiveness just as those on the opposite side of the fence do when they demand total compliance. I believe however, that myself and many others just want quality to take precedence and not be relegated to the sidelines in favour of other things, to not be patronised.
No one helps anyone, on either side, by being vitriolic or calling people names. The two extremes often construct straw-mans, an extreme example they can hold up as something to argue against and people play into it time and time again. They slowly get suckered into that extreme and you only serve to give those with an opposing argument more ammo. By doing this anyone trying to pose a reasoned, nuanced argument will be lumped in with one or the other by those less reasonable; you can lean 1% in one direction or 1% in the other and as far as they're concerned, you're 100% of the way in that direction.
What it all comes down to with me, as alluded to above, is... When it comes to a person what matters is are you decent and are you well reasoned? When it comes to art and entertainment, does quality and effectiveness come first?
Whatever you do, don't be like the guy in this tweet wherever your argument may lay, you only serve to strengthen opposing arguments, make the arguments of yourself and those around you less effective; and make yourself look an idiot. Cory was the better guy here whatever your disagreements may be with him and his ilk.
Last edited:
shubik
Member
Yeah its horrible today. Reloading a page takes 30-50 seconds...
This look fun unlike TLOU2 violence .. i do enjoy violence in games but in a gamey way not realistic one , why the need for 15-20 secs animation for
killing someone ? imo realistic violence should be in very short bursts to be effective in non disturbing way .. but again druckman said fun is not a
word in his dictionary so it's understandable
Last edited:
GymWolf
Member
Yes, it's slower now.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Wrong. Nadine and Ellie look like women. Just women. Not women that specifically SJW lesbians would like.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
But this game is not about making “killing” as good thing same way game liked Doom and Mortal Kombat does. It’s same way game Silent Hill the combat is not “fun” same way as games like DMC and Bayonetta are.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Man, I just like playing good games. I don't blame people for feeling overly pandered to, it is something that pops up more and more in pop-culture, but for a game like this I just wanna enjoy the ride.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
He was engaging in the topic. It's Jon that's not trying to fully flesh out his thoughts on why Neil's agenda is so bad. And why get so upset at him when
Jon Neu
is the one calling Neil (The Director of TLOU 1 and 2) "Cuckmann"? You have some misplaced hate here.It's only pandering if you don't believe the intent of the creators is real and honest. Nobody would care if Ellie was a straight white male.
Last edited:
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Why do you call the guy Neil Cuckmann, his name is Neil Druckmann thats just disrespectfull.....Oh shit, another one of those “allies” incapable of any nuance that jumps to conclusions
First, I don’t think anything is threatened. And If I did, it would be my opinion and everybody is entitled to one, not only Neil Cuckmann and the people happy with his agend... sorry, I mean his ideals.
Yes, it’s a videogame. A videogame made by someone who thinks Anita Sarkeesian, the crazy third wave feminist, is some kind of hero.
He is entitled to have his ideals and further them into their games in the form of a political agenda, like he literally says he does.
Ans everybody else is entitled to say that forcing your ideals into a videogame is not something they like, especially if those ideals are toxic and authoritarian.
Go to the leaks thread, everything is there.
I don’t think you want to have an honest discussion neither, seeing how loaded your questions are.
cormack12
Gold Member
Just set up a new account to host some gifs and man, the downvote crew are already on them - sad bastards. Rather than swamp the thread, there's a selection here:
And I'll post a few here - wrapped in spoilers so they don't crash mobile/low bandwidth.
And I'll post a few here - wrapped in spoilers so they don't crash mobile/low bandwidth.
AtomicStarving
Member
Is it just me or does the indoor lighting look better in the first game? Also some enemies don't seem to have shadows in some light situations.
I'll admit some people's issue is more akin to what you originally wrote. I just hope those who feel that way (that its about her being a woman) understand the nuance between your writing and my change (originally wrote correction, but word was misused there). Even when they spout off as to why they think the focus changed.
Last edited:
Kazekage1981
Member
this game looks good.
damn this game is violent.
I will play this on ps5 and purchase TLOU1 remake . Gonna have a good time
damn this game is violent.
I will play this on ps5 and purchase TLOU1 remake . Gonna have a good time
THEAP99
Banned
People on twitter and stuff seem to believe that the shadows were downgraded.
I will wait for Digital Foundry's analysis on the full game.
Last edited:
If people are shocked by graphics getting turned down as games get closer to launch, well, then I guess I'm shocked by their shock.
nowhat
Member
Oh increased resolution for sure. Just that as far as Pro enhancements go, I'm not sure if there ever has been an example where better quality assets have been a thing, at least in any major capacity. It may seem that way, DF in their initial HZD analysis thought that on a Pro there were better textures and/or better AF being used - turns out the increased image quality there was just a byproduct of a higher rendering resolution.
Matsuchezz
Member
I believe this video is new.