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FranXico
Member
That doesn't sound right.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Does XSX have flash memory too or does it only have the 16GB available?
PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN
The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.
No no it can run on xsx and pc but not to the extent it does on playstation 5. It will be scaled back. This is all because of the SSD and I/O
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mili2110
Member
Does XSX have flash memory too or does it only have the 16GB available?
PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN
The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.www.ign.com
SSD = Flash Memory lel.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
you sure. I think elemental was shown first on pc, and people complained because the ps4 version was downgraded.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
If “next gen” is 4K@60FPS then Unreal Tournament 2003 is “next gen” ready right now. So is Half-Life 2. So is Windows Solitaire if you maximise the window.
Next gen for me is no pop-in, infinite draw distance, no LODing, truely dynamic lighting, a fast travel that is exactly that, and not just a teleportation. Even instant teleportation wouldn’t be as cool as flying across a massive open world at break-neck speeds. It’s rich physics giving more interactive worlds, context aware inverse kinematics instead of canned animations. It’s no load times, higher player counts, VR. It’s AI continuing to have an effect on the world when you’re not there and not looking.
If all that matters to you is resolution and frame rate, PC is already delivering that in spades right now, and yet it hasn’t produced anything like the above, or like this playable technology demo.
Photo-realism doesn’t come from resolution. A real photograph at 1080P is more photo-realistic than something like Counter-Strike at 8K. It’s very naive to think resolution equals graphics.
Photo-realism doesn’t come from compute power either. It comes from paying lots of talented artists and programmers for many years. The more talented teams can make something look great on pretty much anything.
That’s the reality of all of this.
Next gen for me is no pop-in, infinite draw distance, no LODing, truely dynamic lighting, a fast travel that is exactly that, and not just a teleportation. Even instant teleportation wouldn’t be as cool as flying across a massive open world at break-neck speeds. It’s rich physics giving more interactive worlds, context aware inverse kinematics instead of canned animations. It’s no load times, higher player counts, VR. It’s AI continuing to have an effect on the world when you’re not there and not looking.
If all that matters to you is resolution and frame rate, PC is already delivering that in spades right now, and yet it hasn’t produced anything like the above, or like this playable technology demo.
Photo-realism doesn’t come from resolution. A real photograph at 1080P is more photo-realistic than something like Counter-Strike at 8K. It’s very naive to think resolution equals graphics.
Photo-realism doesn’t come from compute power either. It comes from paying lots of talented artists and programmers for many years. The more talented teams can make something look great on pretty much anything.
That’s the reality of all of this.
PaintTinJr
Member
How many? It looks like an even count, but in your scenario there is five wired to GPU and two CPU/L3 cache blocks, isn't there?See the areas circled in red:
Those are memory controllers, memory controllers are made of silicon and are part of the die. You can't have a chiplet design with memory controllers spread out like this, this is a very standard monolithic die memory controller setup.
Now, if you can, take this picture and circle the chiplets. Obviously you can't, because of the memory controllers. I hope now I'm more clear why it can't be chiplets.
Wouldn't it be more logical that this even count is just the two extra controls for the GPU (as in my scenario) and they are wired to the black infinity fabric - perimeter of the chip - that all the GDDR6 lines disappear under, and that the remaining 3 controllers are hidden and wired in a lower layer to the fabric, CPU CCXs and GPU? We know there has to be an imbalance in the silicon somewhere, because they ended up with 5x64bit for the 10GB, and 3x64bit for the 6GB,. unless you think it is 6 MCUs for the 10GB - with one redundant - and 3 of the 5 for 6GB.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I/O throughput was designed with a large pool of SRAM to handle streaming on PS5.
That’s what’s allowing 8K textures to display I believe.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
SRAM will be for the decompressor. Part of the IO complex that delivers 8-9GB/s of useful data. It’s not the reason it can display 8K textures. It’s just a link in a chain that helps push 8-9GB/s which in turn allows rich assets like that to be “very close“ to the RAM.
Hype train, Hype train! Until we get the consoles details, prices and actual games its all just marketing teams and fan boys fighting it out, same every generation.
No one wins a premiership 6-12 months before the season starts.
I am most excited about 4k and HDR going mainstream, my 65 inch OLED cant wait!
No one wins a premiership 6-12 months before the season starts.
I am most excited about 4k and HDR going mainstream, my 65 inch OLED cant wait!
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DrKeo
Member
Please provide a link.
I meant in the console space, it was shown on PS4 with the PS4 logo. Epic also has some marketing agreements with Fortnite and the PS4. Epic and Sony's marketing was working together for almost a decade, ever since Epic stopped working on Gears.
Dude, just mark the chiplets in the image. Obviously anyone with the slightest knowladge of die layout will know how a memory controller looks like and understand that this layout doesn't allow for chiplets. The memory controllers are the most obvious part of the die shot, you can see all 10 Phys so easily I'm not sure why we are still arguing.
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Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
Rumored PS5 event on June 4th to have “a lot of games”
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
What’s amazing about this demo is that it wasn’t smoke and mirrors like last-gen’s tech demos.
I was also proven right about the power difference between the consoles
PS5 will have a huge advantage in detail, even if the resulting image is lower resolution than XSX
check mate to all the morons like Dictator who said the SSD won’t do much. Whoops!
I was also proven right about the power difference between the consoles
PS5 will have a huge advantage in detail, even if the resulting image is lower resolution than XSX
check mate to all the morons like Dictator who said the SSD won’t do much. Whoops!
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
that portion was showcased specifically to give the viewer a glimpse of the “micro” detail and LOD systems at work. Zooming in gives you greater levels of detail
The tweet just added that claim.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
It was probably to demonstrate the context aware kinematics on the characters hands, as well as putting the camera close to the walls to see the detail. The end makes clear that such a loading screen trope wasn’t necessary.
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Does XSX have flash memory too or does it only have the 16GB available?
PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN
The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.
They're talking about the SSD! It's most likely soldered onto the board.
TLZ
Banned
Btw serious question, the way Lumen was described at the start of the video, all natural and bouncing light, no baked light etc, do we really need RT? Isn't this Lumen natural enough?
Kazekage1981
Member
Microsoft you fucking idiots, if you think you can do better with Unreal Engine 5, then show it, instead of this horseshit right here:
I think it's 99% the first case: PS5 is the best platform for UE5 right now (will change in the future).
And you absolutely right about the resolution: IQ is so high that even DF pixel-counters digress, pixels cannot be counted anymore.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Rumored PS5 event on June 4th to have “a lot of games”
Once they go it will be a full showcase.
T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
man did you watch the DF analysis on the UE5 tech demo, you could really sense the awkwardness when Alex was talking, like his mom just smacked him in the face or something. I couldn't finish the video because of that Lmfao
The ign tweet is a quote from tim sweeney saying himself the demo would not be possible without the breakthroughs sony have made. He also said in the livestream that it can be done on other platforms but would need to be scaled back. I'm to tired right now to go filter through the livestream to find him saying it.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Microsoft you fucking idiots, if you think you can do better with Unreal Engine 5, then show it, instead of this horseshit right here:
That game looks pretty fun tho, at least.
Hopefully after today, from here on out, the stuff we see is really "Next Gen-y," visuals wise
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Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
The PS5 Demo (Running @ 1440p) Proves Next-Gen Consoles’ll be All About Render Optimizations: VRS, Temporal & AI Upscaling
Epic Games today demoed a beautiful showcase of the Unreal Engine 5, running on the Sony PlayStation 5. While it looked gorgeous with a ton of new technologies powering the visual, it highlighted one core point: The next-gen consoles are going to be all about efficiency and render optimizations. Not all games will run at 4K, and even fewer will run at 4K 60 FPS. However, those that do, will be only able to achieve the feat using newer rendering techniques such as VRS (variable-rate shading), temporal filtering, dynamic rendering, and AI-based upscaling techniques.
This is exactly what VP of Engineering, Nick Penwarden said in a recent inteview:
Interestingly, it does work very well with our dynamic resolution technique as well. So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit, and then we can adapt to that. In the Unreal Engine 5 demo, we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time.
Further, Epic CTO, Kim Libreri said the following:
Temporal accumulation, you know – more than just normal temporal anti-aliasing – it’s is a huge part of how we’re able to make things look as good as this. The global illumination, without a temporal intelligence, there’s no way you could do it on hardware yet. We’re actually doubling down on the understanding of how temporal can help us, and there’s been so many huge improvements in quality because of having a temporal component. It’s the way that we get close to movie rendering – without those samples (and they’re not just necessarily pure screen-space samples, there’s loads of things you can do to temporally accumulate), the GI would not work anywhere near as well as it does without it.
www.hardwaretimes.com
All I want from next gen is more games running @60fps. If that can be achieved with the quality showed on today’s demo it can be 1080p for all I care.
Epic Games today demoed a beautiful showcase of the Unreal Engine 5, running on the Sony PlayStation 5. While it looked gorgeous with a ton of new technologies powering the visual, it highlighted one core point: The next-gen consoles are going to be all about efficiency and render optimizations. Not all games will run at 4K, and even fewer will run at 4K 60 FPS. However, those that do, will be only able to achieve the feat using newer rendering techniques such as VRS (variable-rate shading), temporal filtering, dynamic rendering, and AI-based upscaling techniques.
This is exactly what VP of Engineering, Nick Penwarden said in a recent inteview:
Interestingly, it does work very well with our dynamic resolution technique as well. So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit, and then we can adapt to that. In the Unreal Engine 5 demo, we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time.
Further, Epic CTO, Kim Libreri said the following:
Temporal accumulation, you know – more than just normal temporal anti-aliasing – it’s is a huge part of how we’re able to make things look as good as this. The global illumination, without a temporal intelligence, there’s no way you could do it on hardware yet. We’re actually doubling down on the understanding of how temporal can help us, and there’s been so many huge improvements in quality because of having a temporal component. It’s the way that we get close to movie rendering – without those samples (and they’re not just necessarily pure screen-space samples, there’s loads of things you can do to temporally accumulate), the GI would not work anywhere near as well as it does without it.
The PS5 Demo (Running @ 1440p) Proves Next-Gen Consoles'll be All About Render Optimizations: VRS, Temporal & AI Upscaling
Epic Games today demoed a beautiful showcase of the Unreal Engine 5, running on the Sony PlayStation 5. While it looked gorgeous with a ton of new technologies powering the visual, it highlighted one core point: The next-gen consoles are going to be all about efficiency and render optimizations...
www.hardwaretimes.com
All I want from next gen is more games running @60fps. If that can be achieved with the quality showed on today’s demo it can be 1080p for all I care.
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
The IO throughput is part of the SSD.
DrKeo
Member
I read all Tim said and heard the interviews too, he was very clear and didn't say at any point that the demo can't run on other systems. It's a next-gen demo, just like elemental was.
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TLZ
Banned
Ladies and gentlemen, we have Shazam in the building.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
He better stick to saying multiplats and xbox series x which is confirmed to support current gen for at least 2 years. PS5 on the other hand will do its best to pull as much players of its established player base as possible through convincing gameplay and graphics unmatched by current consoles or PC's. Let's not forget that Xbox will continue compensating for various PC sets after those 2 years.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
Cerny mentioned Global Illumination in his lecture as being able to leverage the hardware ray-tracing accelerators. It could be that Unreal 5’s Lumen is currently hardware agnostic and may gain performance later on if they use them.
“Full” ray-tracing can add awesome volumetric atmospheric effects and genuine dynamic real-time reflections without pre-baked or JIT tricks like cube-maps, or duplicated and mirrored geometry etc
PS5/XSX/2080Ti aren’t really powerful enough to do full ray-tracing in anything outside of Minecraft where the cube geometry makes the calculations massively more simple.
A big problem with real ray-tracing is you can’t cull out geometry behind you as you could suddenly now have light pouring in if you removed it. In something voxel based like Minecraft you can query a data structure to see what would be blocking light without having to draw geometry behind you, as it’s all laid out in a regular cuboid grid.
XSX Minecraft ray-tracing demo is as good as it will get outside of limited reflections and global illumination.
Nvidia Ampere might take us a step closer, as might a mid-gen console refresh.
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Kazekage1981
Member
"PS5 will have a huge advantage in detail, even if the resulting image is lower resolution than XSX"
That is wonderful, and I know I am failing to understand this, but isn't this where Variable Rate Shading/Mesh Shaders come in because how can you make the demo that we just saw run at 4k at 60fps assuming that PlayStation has something similar to MSFT VRS/MS?
The billions of triangles and level of detail is something that is NOT taxing on the CPU/GPU? When you are from a distance, or passing by stuff quickly why put all those billions of triangles and level of detail there in the first place? Is this where streaming when needed comes in?
I dont understand
That is wonderful, and I know I am failing to understand this, but isn't this where Variable Rate Shading/Mesh Shaders come in because how can you make the demo that we just saw run at 4k at 60fps assuming that PlayStation has something similar to MSFT VRS/MS?
The billions of triangles and level of detail is something that is NOT taxing on the CPU/GPU? When you are from a distance, or passing by stuff quickly why put all those billions of triangles and level of detail there in the first place? Is this where streaming when needed comes in?
I dont understand
PaintTinJr
Member
And they don't corroborate the 3 x 64bit lanes and 5x 64bit lanes, because 3 and 5 are odd numbers, so they'd need to be central or have an asymmetric layout - which they don't according to your annotation. Solve that simple puzzle and I'm happy to drop the whole thing, in fact, if you even claim that there are other MCUs in a lower layer that results in a odd count, I'd be prepared to leave the topic there.
MasterCornholio
Member
The PS5s SSD is twice as fast plus I believe it has more customizations than the XSXs I/O system. With that said there's bound to be some things the PS5 can do that the XSX can't.
With that said it was refreshing to hear how Sonys I/O is extremely impressive and will help PC gaming in the future. That is something that everyone will benefit at some point.
Kazekage1981
Member
I am sure that game has fun gameplay but looks like ass-Xbox 360 level but upscaled and shinier.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
What does this prove exactly? From what I understand, the article is still up on the WCG site. This random guy says the XsX can't run the demo, what does he know? Who knows why they deleted the tweet.
We have no idea if the demo needs to even be scaled back on XsX, and if it does by how much. The XsX DOES have an Utlra Fast SSD
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think what is still not being grasp by many is the big difference the I/O complex, 12 vs 4-8 lanes and 6 levels of priority make in PS5 that allows most of this. The SSD flash are probably fairly "standard" chips in NVMe drives available for PC in the last year or two. Sony just went balls to the wall over XSX (as currently known) and current PC do on this front.
Andodalf
Banned
“It's got a God-tier storage system which is pretty far ahead of PCs, [but on]* a high-end PC with an SSD and especially with NVMe, you get awesome performance too."
Actual quote from Tim, per the DF article.
So a SSD (would have to mean SATA) is solid, and a NVME drive is “awesome” XSX has a quality NVME drive. That doesn’t sound like a substantial step back
*corrected from “bon“
DrKeo
Member
These are PHYs, there are 10 of them because there is 1 PHY per 32-bit, they are spread around the chip because PHYs always sit on the rim of the chip, even if you have chiplets the PHYs will sit in the edge of the chiplet. Can you please mark the chiplets in the image already? And a friendly reminder, the L3 will have to be inside the CPU chiplets for obvious reasons.
Where did I say it couldn't run on other systems. I clearly said it could just not to the extent ot does on playstation 5.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
100% true:
1. Windows Central deleted its pathetic tweet
2. The demo is only possible on PS5
3. Some people do not accept facts
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BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
A bottle-neck is exactly that, a restrictive part in an otherwise wider pipeline.
A perfectly balanced system would be one pipe of the same diameter all the way through. Nothing is slowing anything else down, and nothing is overkill and spending most of it’s time twiddling its thumbs.
The limiting factor in a system without a bottleneck is the diameter of the whole pipe.
But it’s more complicated than that as it depends on what you’re trying to do, and what workload your game gives the system.
In a game with a small environment (like Tekken) the storage was never a bottle-neck. It only affected level load times. In a modern game (whether tight like Doom, or open world like BotW) that relies on streaming in parts of that world, the old HDDs were the bottleneck. They could shift far less data per unit of time than the CPU/GPU/RAM etc.
You could look at something like the PS4 Pro as being a bottle shaped pipe with the fat section the GPU and RAM, the base of the neck the CPU, and the neck opening the HDD.
Sweeny suggests PS5 is well balanced. Meaning that for the kind of demo he produced, no single part of the data processing pipeline was severely impacting on the rest of it.
Games are installed to the SSD so they dont deal withing loading and reading data from discs.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Oh, boy, this day just keeps delivering...
100% true:
1. Windows central deleted its pathetic tweet
2. The demo is only possible on PS5
3. Some people do not accept facts
They deleted a tweet but isn't the article still up? Are you saying it is a FACT that the demo is not possible on XsX?
Thirty7ven
Banned
Sad that after the excitement we go back to the bullshit straight away.
Yes it would be possible on the XSX. No it wouldn’t automatically look/perform better there. It would be give and take, but for the purposes of the tech being showcased EPIC decided the PS5 offered them the optimal solution. If they wanted to push other elements maybe the XSX would’ve been the pick. They have different advantages after all.
Either way, diminishing returns folks cmon.
Yes it would be possible on the XSX. No it wouldn’t automatically look/perform better there. It would be give and take, but for the purposes of the tech being showcased EPIC decided the PS5 offered them the optimal solution. If they wanted to push other elements maybe the XSX would’ve been the pick. They have different advantages after all.
Either way, diminishing returns folks cmon.
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