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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
It could be like this: At the beginning games will look the same on both consoles later xsx will overtake then PS5 Pro comes out to be on par n then XSX (Pro) comes out
Why would they look the same? CoD Ghosts looked better on PS4 then on the Xbox One when they were just out

Surely you know better than this dev. Let's wait and see what SSD will do in PS5 ( besides loading times ). Btw. PS5 loading time will be 1.5 sec., XSX will be 4 sec. since more than 2x times faster
Oh right, enjoy that extra 0.5sec. Also Cerny himself said that the CPU and GPU can't both run in full boost mode.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Can anyone tell me why Jason Schreier and developers alike considered the PS5 to be the most powerful console out of the two discussed in this thread?

As a PlayStation fan, I honestly believe the Xbox to be the most capable console. Its clear advantage in CPU clock speed, its greater CU count and Teraflops (we are talking about two consoles leveraging the same RDNA 2 based architecture, so it's apples to apples), its greater raw SSD size, its clear storage expansion solution, among other things, makes me truly wonder why PS5 was considered the best of the two consoles up until this reveal.

Truly disappointed in SONY's offering.

What are your thoughts?
One of three reasons.

1. The insiders (and there were a ton of them) were BSing the whole time on their own

2. A couple insiders chimed in first last year, and most other insiders latched on to that leak as their own (follow the leader)

3. Reverse psychology. Maybe the insiders are mostly honest people just asking for info. And the dev teams they keep buggin for info eventually get sick of it and tell them a great high spec answer to get them off their back. If they tell everyone PS5 is 10tf, and that hits the internet, everyone from Sony to the leaker to possibly the secret guy getting identified would have a shitstorm of people coming after them saying PS5 is crap all year. Look what happened today and how disappointed people are. Just imagine if word got out to forums for 8 months about 10tf, how much commotion there would be
 
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Vanfanel340

Neo Member
[QUOTE = "Johnglen, publicación: 257416539, miembro: 741745"]
Veo que la narrativa ha cambiado a «es solo el gpu» como era cuando se anunció el xbx. La cuestión es que las diferencias no están solo en el frente de la CPU, sino también en la CPU, la velocidad de Ram, etc., básicamente en todo menos la velocidad de SSD. Recuerde que antes de preguntarse por "¿por qué el XSX saca el doble de píxeles de Ps4pro cuando es solo un 40% más potente?".
[/ CITAR]
All that power of the X series will be good if the price at which it comes out makes it more attractive than the PS5, Sony, since what happened with the price of Ps3 is very reluctant to make Premium consoles, the Xbox X series is a console premium but its games have to work well from One S, X and Pc, so making a game thinking only of X series hardware is impossible due to its strategy, Sony its compatibility with Ps4 is scarce, although games made for PS5 they are designed by and to exploit PS5, they are completely different technologies and ideas and the price will determine
 
“ XSX vs PS5 specs break down as...
CPU: 3.6GHz vs 3.5Ghz 8C/16T Zen 2 (Xbox wins +3%)
GPU: 52CU@1.825Ghz vs 36CU@2.235Ghz RDNA2 GPU (Xbox wins +17% shading and RT but PS5 wins +20% rasterisation)
RAM: 10GB@560GB/sec + 6GB@330GB/sec vs 16GB@448GB/sec (Xbox wins ~20-25% more bandwidth, total amount is a tie)
SSD: 1TB@2.5GB/sec vs 825GB@5.5GB/sec (PS5 wins speed +110%, Xbox wins capacity)

The consoles are within spitting distance of each other. Everyone who said they were both super close, and way more close than any of the consoles this generation, were right.”

Not gonna lie, the damage control from the other place is pretty damn good:

X was 50% faster than Pro, with 50% faster RAM and 50% more RAM.

XSX is 16.5% faster than PS5, with 20-25% faster RAM and the same amount of RAM.

So no. It's a much smaller difference. Don't listen to the console warriors.

Paul with RedGamingTech in his video: “In some work loads, the PS5 GPU will run as fast as the XSX GPU.”

Guys, the PS5 is not a 9.2 TF machine. Given how Sony is handling the variable clocks, the PS5 is a 10.3 TF machine ~95% of the time. The 10% drop being thrown around is temps for a 2% drop in clock rate.

There have never been two consoles this close in perf.

Even though these particular posters may be biased, they do have a point to a certain extent. The difference is smaller than PS4/XB1 & Pro/XBX, but at the same time it doesn't mean it is insignificant. The SSD is the real wild card. It is very new to console gaming and we don't know how third party devs will utilize it.

The major fuck up today for Sony was BC. Their ecosystem is the main driver to retain their userbase and this BC situation is an absolute disaster.
 
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Reindeer

Member
It is, because it is 5% lol
Truth is, you will scale some shadows and texture to keep 4k 60, this is all we are talking about.
4K60 on that GPU? No way, maybe with upscaling and less demanding games. Even Series X won't sustain 4K60 for all games without resorting to upscaling or dynamic res.
 

Duellist

Member
im disappointed in sony ,theyr system looks about 20% weaker, most games probably wont do 4k native,which is a joke as its a console meant for over 5 years and many ppl have 4k tvs, I might have to go with xbox this gen if they don't announce ps2 backwards compatibility with 4k resolution ,xbox has way more incentives from the outset tbh with upscaled and upgraded old games ,sony doesn't seem to care to give us choice but push their blurry ps now service
Do you have anything useful to add or are you just going to copy and paste pretty much the same shit post in every next gen thread?
 
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I put my money on it now, the peak clocks of the ps5 will only ever be temporary.

Ehh:

"We expect the GPU spend at or close to that frequency & performance. When the worst case scenario game arrives, it will run at a lower clockspeed. Not to much lower. To reduce power at 10% it will only take a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I expect any downlocking to be pretty minor."

It's not a peak clock. It downgrades at specific points at according to Cerny "a couple of percent reduction in frequency"

It's pretty much a 10TF machine
 
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4K60 on that GPU? No way, maybe with upscaling and less demanding games. Even Series X won't sustain 4K60 for all games without resorting to upscaling or dynamic res.
We will see, ok. But GPU wise we are dealing with 15-20% difference top unless PS5 does not have VRS and machine learning. That would be a mess.
Otherwise it seems that Xbox is fairly haed, good for them.
 
Why would they look the same? CoD Ghosts looked better on PS4 then on the Xbox One when they were just out


Oh right, enjoy that extra 0.5sec. Also Cerny himself said that the CPU and GPU can't both run in full boost mode.

Surely, but PS5 isn't a 9.2 TF machine, trying hard grasping at straws.
 

silent head

Member
MLvwfFh.png
 

CJY

Banned
We will see, ok. But GPU wise we are dealing with 15-20% difference top unless PS5 does not have VRS and machine learning. That would be a mess.
Otherwise it seems that Xbox is fairly haed, good for them.
Machine learning and VRS are just software algos baked into the APIs, no?

Does XSX have custom silicon to handle VRS?
 

KAL2006

Banned
It seems nearly in every category Series X outdid PS5

GPU CUs
GPU TFs
CPU clock speed
SSD Size
Expanding SSD instead of replacing
Full backwards compatibility
Enhanced backwards compatibility showcase
Smart delivery
Multi game switching showcased
Auto HDR for old games

The only thing PS5 has over Series X is

Higher clockspeed for GPU and even that's variable seems like wishy washy damage control as most likely can't handle high clockspeed at all times

Faster SSD very cool feature but if 3rd party games need to run on Series X they won't take advantage of faster SSD in terms of gameplay design other than quicker loading.

3D Audio

It didn't help they barely mentioned Ray tracing making me think it can't do it as well as Series X, and no mention of VRS.

What a shit show from Sony. If it was this bad they should have announced with exclusive games.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I think good looking game on PS5 and Sex should be doable at 4k/60......... assuming the devs don't go ape shit on RT, which they probably will and we'll have to settle for the 1800p/30 or 1080p/60 options. lol
 

hemo memo

Gold Member
Not gonna lie, the damage control from the other place is pretty damn good:









Even though these particular posters may be biased, they do have a point to a certain extent. The difference is smaller than PS4/XB1 & Pro/XBX, but at the same time it doesn't mean it is insignificant. The SSD is the real wild card. It is very new to console gaming and we don't know how third party devs will utilize it.

The major fuck up today for Sony was BC. Their ecosystem is the main driver to retain their userbase and this BC situation is an absolute disaster.

Cerny talks about the PS2 BC in PS3 and how it was cut from later models. Like we should be thankful they are blessing us with PS4 BC while Microsoft BC going back to the first Xbox.
 

Null_Key

Neo Member
Cool your head and knock it off with the antagonism.
Let me guess, you legitimately think that you understand the specs better based on the wall of text you wrote defending the ps5. Truth is that Sony did something unprecedented, in a very bad way, in the console space by making insane and variable clock speeds just so to not seem completely overpowered by the XSX. Cerny himself admitted that there is no way that BOTH the cpu and the gpu will run at these peak clock speeds at the same time but that went over your head. Oh and guess what else you need , other than a fast hard drive, for these open worlds ? Fast CPU (for a decent frame rate) a powerful GPU and a fast Ram configuration to feed that GPU for making these worlds come true and the XSX is killing the ps5 in everything, even if we assume that the ps5 will run at its peak clock speeds at all times (spoilers....it will not).

Oh and comparing TF is not apples and oranges, both are using AMD architecture. The fact that Sony is taking the risk of going with insane theoretical clock speeds just to make the magic double digit TF number is a disadvantage , not advantage, that could result in some hilarious situations. See you when the first DF comparisons about multi platform games in these new consoles arrive.
I understand better than you, in fact I work in the IT Industry specifically in cyber security looking for flawed coding . I didn't fish for a magically TF, but I'm not some dotard sitting in his grandmother's basement wanking it to a picture of Phil Spencer and what 12 TF is. If you don't understand thats fine, but don't try to change the narrative, and be constructive with your criticism if you gonna go on an attack. I have no need to prove myself, but if the MOD wants to see my certs just to make you look like an unsecure little brat so be it. This is a burner account on a burner email, but i'll school you so hard that covid is the last thing you will want to worry. Unprecedented? How do you thing progress is made? People take risk and if you aren't the development team working or engineering the products, it probably a good idea to STFU, you novice.
 
Not gonna lie, the damage control from the other place is pretty damn good:









Even though these particular posters may be biased, they do have a point to a certain extent. The difference is smaller than PS4/XB1 & Pro/XBX, but at the same time it doesn't mean it is insignificant. The SSD is the real wild card. It is very new to console gaming and we don't know how third party devs will utilize it.

The major fuck up today for Sony was BC. Their ecosystem is the main driver to retain their userbase and this BC situation is an absolute disaster.
The first serious mistake in this comparison is in the CPU specs, no need to search even further. The XSX is actually 3.8 GHz, the 3.66 (and not 3.6) number is with SMT, something that we learned nothing about the ps5 CPU. So the comparison falls apart from the first component (even if we assume that the ps5 cpu will run at 3.5GHz all the time, it will not) no need to go any further with these bullshit comparisons.
 
Not gonna lie, the damage control from the other place is pretty damn good:









Even though these particular posters may be biased, they do have a point to a certain extent. The difference is smaller than PS4/XB1 & Pro/XBX, but at the same time it doesn't mean it is insignificant. The SSD is the real wild card. It is very new to console gaming and we don't know how third party devs will utilize it.

The major fuck up today for Sony was BC. Their ecosystem is the main driver to retain their userbase and this BC situation is an absolute disaster.
I think people are underestimating the gains PS5 will get in their GPU with it’s much higher clock speed, which is just as important as the number of compute units when it comes to power. Paul with RedGamingTech said in today’s video that “with some work loads, the PS5 GPU will run just as fast the GPU of the XSX.“
 
We will see, ok. But GPU wise we are dealing with 15-20% difference top unless PS5 does not have VRS and machine learning. That would be a mess.
Otherwise it seems that Xbox is fairly haed, good for them.

With VRS active at 4K and adding in the raw power deficit the difference will be ~30%

Also, anyone thinking the ps5 can sit at 2.23GHz gpu clocks for extended durations whilst being both cool and quiet is fooling themselves.
 

CJY

Banned
Nah, 10GB at 560GB/s, 6GB at 336GB/s
vs 448GB/s

Wider bus width but lower memory clocks make the last 6GB slower, though the first 10GB faster
The different memory clocks means they're essentially splitting the RAM into two separate pools. I think I recall DF stating that it will be invisible to the developer, but I don't see how this is possible. Just like how a PS5 dev will have to work with the variable clock speeds when pushing PS5 to its limits, XSX devs will no doubt have to contend with varying RAM clock speeds.
 
With VRS active at 4K and adding in the raw power deficit the difference will be ~30%

Also, anyone thinking the ps5 can sit at 2.23GHz gpu clocks for extended durations whilst being both cool and quiet is fooling themselves.

Is it? So, i can't play PS5 demanding game for 5 hours straight?
 
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Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Nah, 10GB at 560GB/s, 6GB at 336GB/s
vs 448GB/s

Wider bus width but lower memory clocks make the last 6GB slower, though the first 10GB faster
True, but just make the calculate, because people seem to forget that XSX uses 13.5GB for games, and 2.5 for the OS.
So that's 10GB at 560 + 3.5GB at 336 => 6.776.
Let's assume that the PS5 will also use 2.5GB for the OS, well then you will have 13.5 at 448 => 6.048

So also here in case of the RAM, XSX is actually 12% faster than the PS5.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
It would have come across better if they just dropped specs in a article and had uploaded a short tech demo/gameplay showing performance and custom SSD usage.

Also this PS4 backward compatibility is a mess, not clear at all. From the way I interpret it, they will have almost 100 of the 'most popular' games available at launch only, with more to follow. People defiantly got blindsided, conversations were all about PS1-3 compatibility, when in reality it may only have a fraction of ps4 games available at launch.

I feel bad for the PS fans who were anticipating some great things on backwards compatibility. I know a lot PS fans have said they don't care about BC so no biggie for them, but there are also a ton of people that were hoping for full BC on PS1, 2, 3 & 4. I always thought that was a pipe dream, but it was implied that at least the PS4 would be completely BC with the PS 5.

What was presented today makes even that sound iffy and it's pretty lack luster compared to the XsX with everything BC on the One, BC on the XsX and ALL XOne games BC natively day 1 most with upgrades,
 

LordOfChaos

Member
The different memory clocks means they're essentially splitting the RAM into two separate pools. I think I recall DF stating that it will be invisible to the developer, but I don't see how this is possible. Just like how a PS5 dev will have to work with the variable clock speeds when pushing PS5 to its limits, XSX devs will no doubt have to contend with varying RAM clock speeds.

Probably be like inter-CCX latency. Sure you don't have to think about it most of the time, but if you really want to push the system to the edge, it is something you have to consider.

NDPS4_8.jpg



An SeX developer would be wise to keep the split bandwidth in mind.
 
It is the return of the fp-16 again. Clock speeds matter only when the number of TF is the same and we are referring to locked clock speeds. Here not only is the TF difference substantial but Sony is giving variable clock speeds to reach these 10 TF.

Whatever, I wrote that when the ps5 specs are revealed all this insiders madness will stop. So now when the first DF comparison videos are made all this bullshit will stop too.
 
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CJY

Banned
I feel bad for the PS fans who were anticipating some great things on backwards compatibility. I know a lot PS fans have said they don't care about BC so no biggie for them, but there are also a ton of people that were hoping for full BC on PS1, 2, 3 & 4. I always thought that was a pipe dream, but it was implied that at least the PS4 would be completely BC with the PS 5.

What was presented today makes even that sound iffy and it's pretty lack luster compared to the XsX with everything BC on the One, BC on the XsX and ALL XOne games BC natively day 1 most with upgrades,

I agree. If "almost all" PS4 are BC, why couldn't they just come out and say 100% and do the revelvant fucking testing before the machine launches? Their approach is so bone-headed it hurts.
 

vdopey

Member
So This is the first time I am writing on here - I was waiting anticipating the Sony announcements - note before I am a big Sony Fan - I have sony tvs, sony phone, a ps4pro and a switch. Actually completely against MS, at least MS pre Satya Nadella, I still dont trust them, in fact all of my systems run Linux.

I was reading a few comments earlier where people where talking about wayland and x.org and its obvious some of you don't understand operating systems at all, Freebsd isn't a faster kernel that's just nonsense, Sony uses FreeBSD because they can hold back all of the changes they do to the stack, but they do contribute some stuff back with the GPL all modifications have to be shared back, the BSD license is a lot more liberal, in that you can do whatever you want, Sony by and large has been pretty decent, however they obviously hold back whatever major changes they make mostly probably because of security. The only reason Linux isnt dominating the desktop space is because of applications and earlier Microsoft tactics, with embrace, extend & extinguish and vendor lock-in, Microsoft used to be and in some cases still is one of the dirtiest players they were purely about profit and market dominance to the detriment of everything else.

So now I've got that out of the way, Sony have messed up big time. I was really disappointed with the ps4 pro, the games were good don't get me wrong, but the tiling to get to 4K meh, they cheaped out. The PS5 is going to be a big disappointment as well, this is planned for at least 6 years run and out of the gate they have produced something much weaker. I'm sorry that ssd tech is possible because of PCIE4, give it until the end of the year as Cerny mentioned and PC will have way faster nvme ssd tech. If this was released last year, yes this would have been fine, but 2020 ? Seriously?

They completely shot themselves in the foot, the raytracing will weaker as well, completely disappointed. Microsoft did the right thing here 12TF going wide and low was the correct tactic, more CUs gives you much more flexibility and was a minimum to maintain great performance - they once again gimped it for price it will still sell decent, but I'm not even interested in purchasing this, its just utterly disappointing, Instead of tvtvtvxboxtvtvtv this was just a complete farcical ssdssdps5ssdssdssd - a second to 4 seconds meh I mean seriously meh, 36 CU's I mean talk about weak sauce, utter disappointment.

When he said 36 cus and 10TF I just turned off the stream I was no longer interested.

Now what I will say is go back to the MS Reveal and watch it again, a few key points Microsoft stressed the core clock of the CPU and GPU are locked, they emphasised this several times, because they already knew the PS5 would not be locked. Watch through the MS Conference again and its obvious they knew Sony was going to reveal specs and they decided to release the day before to just destroy Sony. There was a few other points they made, almost as if they knew all of the Sony talking points and were ready to counteract them.

Sonys decision to downscale frequency based on load, basically means you cannot guarantee performance, out of the gate most games will be running at less than 10TF and by the end of the generation the performance will only get worse as Developers try to do more - lets not forget less CU's probably less raytracing performance, again what was Cerny thinking ? This is a mess.

If your trying to justify this train wreck I'm sorry there is no point - Sony deserve to lose the next generation I actually hope either Nintendo or Xbox outsells it, just so that they learn this bullshit does not fly, trying to say TF is not a good indicator when all PC gpus are measured by that metric is just a joke. Come next year PCs will be on near 20 TF and here we have a gpu doing at very best 10TF, its just a massive fail.

Sorry I am just venting my frustration over that utterly poor reveal, they stuck their eggs in 1 basket and its just a disaster. What about VR ? Surely having a gpu with more CU's would be beneficial here, surely having a stronger GPU would be more beneficial for VR ... So Disappointed.
 
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Is it? So, i can't play PS5 demanding game for 5 hours straight?

Sure you can. Look at pc though. Increased frequencies generate a lot of extra heat And we are talking about clocks much higher than most 5700XT AIB. I’m just saying that at those clocks there is no way the thing will be cool and quiet.
 

Disco_

Member
What I do t get is why variable. What's the benefit? Why not just be on max clocks at all times?
Because sometimes those max clocks aren't being used and that power can either be saved, or sent to the cpu instead. Are you gonna run 100% when staring at a blank wall not doing anything in game?
Think of it as a car, when cruising on the highway you're not using 100% of the power, but when that asshole in the left lane is doing 45mph, you can stomp the gas, go 100% and pass him with a finger held high.
Either way, sony can take this ps4 pro approach and sell it to someone else. What a bummer.
 
Sure you can. Look at pc though. Increased frequencies generate a lot of extra heat And we are talking about clocks much higher than most 5700XT AIB. I’m just saying that at those clocks there is no way the thing will be cool and quiet.

You forgot that Sony invested in some cooling solution. Btw. In the presentation Cerny specified both the CPU and GPU would run max clocks most of the time. Will find a timestamp.

 
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Null_Key

Neo Member
With VRS active at 4K and adding in the raw power deficit the difference will be ~30%

Also, anyone thinking the ps5 can sit at 2.23GHz gpu clocks for extended durations whilst being both cool and quiet is fooling themselves.
That was the point Cerny made, it can if it needs to, and won't if it doesn't. Thats why one of the first question I want to ask is the cooling solution. We shouldn't say it can't without seeing it in action. 2.23 is very high, but we should remove the cognition that something can't be done, based on our own understanding but let facts dictate what is and what isn't.
 
With VRS active at 4K and adding in the raw power deficit the difference will be ~30%

Also, anyone thinking the ps5 can sit at 2.23GHz gpu clocks for extended durations whilst being both cool and quiet is fooling themselves.
If PS5 doesn't have VRS, yes, as I said.
But ok, I will still trust more a lead architect actually talking to devs than you. Really, no pun intended, I think we should all question ourself a bit more. I would be glad to hear a talk between some people here and Cerny and see the outcome.
 

B_Boss

Member
He never said he was an insider. He is a former journalist who did have contacts. The funny thing about this is that the systems are going about this so differently, fanboys are already up in arms trying to declare a winner, when we have no clue what both systems will do in real world performance. It’s Speed vs. Power and it’s the reason why so many insiders were saying both systems are close because they are. The jackass fanboys see 12.1 vs 10.3 and somehow the XSX is the greatest console of all time.

Bro it is literally akin to trying to tell thousands of people that the sky is genuinely not falling lol. All the faith and hope invested in insiders or those who know those who are insiders, etc, all the psychological leaning on “TFLOPS”, on the hopes (explicit or implicit) of their console being “the best”....it’s insanity. For a long time now Sony has satisfied my gaming hobby and it’ll be absolutely no different this time around. It’s baffling.
 

xool

Member
That is literally the opposite of what it says in the article.

Traditional CPUs on PC do this, not PS5's boost.
ok - I know - I was exaggerating a bit for effect. They're actually claiming to be throttling based on power consumption so I assume they allow hotspots ... but the effect is the same - they're overclocking until they have to throttle ..
 
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