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[Panajev2001a]

How do developers like Rock Star account for differences between an i9 on their PC version of RDR2 and the Jaguar on the console versions?

They design the game and its systems so that they work at ~30 FPS on consoles’ Jaguars first and foremost.
Then maybe they delay the PC game for a bit and, if the game projected sales are big enough (few few games are anywhere near the sales juggernaut GTA is) they may tweak the experience so gamers can get a bit more use out of the HW.

Considering the performance difference between the 1.6 GHz Jaguar and a 3-4+ GHz Core i9, you see few if no gameplay altering changes or nothing more than can be brute forced.

 

[Neofire]

His industry insights are pretty bad imo.
He doesn’t accept somebody that disagree with him too (arrogant?).

Yeah.......Sony just spend all that R&D on hardware and marketing just to release all of their games on every platforms .

 

[Tulipanzo]

Love the focus on ecosystems.

You look at where Sony and Nintendo are with traditional consoles, then look at MS and tell me whose approach is more effective.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

AMD and Sony have both said it has RT, where is the rumour that it does not have it from a reliable source?.

I was joking about RT

 

[sinnergy]

Love the focus on ecosystems.

You look at where Sony and Nintendo are with traditional consoles, then look at MS and tell me whose approach is more effective.

To me it’s this:

Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Think about this for a moment. Change is not excepted by most .

 

[it_wasn't_me]

So...

HBM2
Dual GPU
AMD developing Navi exclusively for Sony
5+ GB/s SSD tech
$1000 cost to produce

...only to match $500 XSX?

HBM 2 is possible because it will be cheaper than GDDR6 soon, but GDDR6 price will go up. And also someone recently made a huge order of HBM 2 modules.
5+ GB/s SSD tech is also possible because, last year Cerny did say that the RAW bandwidth of the PS5’s SSD is higher than of any other SSD’s on the market right now. So, last year during that time PCIe 3 SSD were only available on the market with speed up to 3.0 GB/s.
So, with recently launched PCIe 4 SSD and Samsung advertised 980 Pro SSD with next-gen PlayStation which has speed up to 7GB/s. So, it falls in line what Cerny said : "PS5’s SSD is higher than of any other SSD’s on the market right now."
XSX SSD was claimed in a supposed spec sheet from Windows Central to be "up to 2GB/s".

 

[Tulipanzo]

To me it’s this:

Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Think about this for a moment. Change is not excepted by most .

There's a lot of obfuscating language being used, so let's put these approaches down clearly:

PS/Nintendo: the console you buy will be supported for 6-7y, with consistent exclusive titles making best use of it.
After this time we'll move on to supporting next-gen for another cycle.
Some optional HW revisions will be available.

MS: Your console will be made obsolete at an undisclosed time of our preference; there will always be better hw just about to launch (see their E3s since 2016).
Exclusive support is patchy or absent (2017 for X1, no exclusives for SeX) depending on what we want to push.
HW revisions will replace what you own, and we'll only nominally support your platform with knee-capped ports.




P.S. There's stuff MS is pushing that's worthwhile, like GP, but "no exclusives for up to 2 years" is a bad idea that only brand-loyalists could defend.

 

[sinnergy]

Going forward needs forward thinking and handling , it’s not for all , I know.

As with all Innovations, you don’t have to buy or use it.

it’s like: apple removing headphone jack, and the cell phone introduction, why do I need it I have a phone at home or a pager.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Going forward needs forward thinking and handling , it’s not for all , I know.

As with all you don’t have to buy or use it.

You're again using vague language and a "holier than thou" attitude to justify a bad approach that has repeatedly failed in the market.

 

[Aceofspades]

So...

HBM2
Dual GPU
AMD developing Navi exclusively for Sony
5+ GB/s SSD tech
$1000 cost to produce

...only to match $500 XSX?

Bolded points are simply BS, no one is believing such rumors, the rest is not far fetched at all.

 

[hubertuss03]

Its going to be a fun generation I think.
Sony has nowhere near the money or resources that MS does. Its Just the way it is. I think MS has decided that gaming is going to be a boom industry even more than it has been. Google jumping in is another pointer that these big companies think it's worth investing billions in, and as MS has shown previously, they will spend the money to get what they want.
I believe that there will be a race to buy up studios to give companies exclusives which will differentiate them from other companies. With Google and MS throwing money around to buy up studios it's going to get pretty crazy. Google could buy up EA, Activision and Ubisoft and not even blink. So could MS. Sony has no chance at this game. They just don't have the money.
I dont think its good for gamers. When I saw Google jump in I thought that it wasn't going to be beneficial to gamers.

Funny fanboyish post
If they have money to buy whoever they want why they buy mediocre studios like Compulsion Games or Undead Labs?
Why they have less games than Sony wchich not have money?

You should wake up from this Xbox dream

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Its going to be a fun generation I think.
Sony has nowhere near the money or resources that MS does. Its Just the way it is. I think MS has decided that gaming is going to be a boom industry even more than it has been. Google jumping in is another pointer that these big companies think it's worth investing billions in, and as MS has shown previously, they will spend the money to get what they want.
I believe that there will be a race to buy up studios to give companies exclusives which will differentiate them from other companies. With Google and MS throwing money around to buy up studios it's going to get pretty crazy. Google could buy up EA, Activision and Ubisoft and not even blink. So could MS. Sony has no chance at this game. They just don't have the money.
I dont think its good for gamers. When I saw Google jump in I thought that it wasn't going to be beneficial to gamers.

Oh, infinite war chest. Sometimes I get the feeling that Xbox fans act like their dads ( MS as a company in this case ) which have a lot of money and can buy whatever they want and act how they want. Like spoiled brats.

Funny fanboyish post
If they have money to buy whoever they want why they buy mediocre studios like Compulsion Games or Undead Labs?
Why they have less games than Sony wchich not have money?

You should wake up from this Xbox dream

Yeah, reality is something different.

 

[ethomaz]

Here guys, enjoy it! Or hate it!

The ideia Sony Will copy the bulk tower design of MS is as usual crazy to me lol
Looks like typical Xbox fan made up video.

 

[Rightisright]

Oh, infinite war chest. Sometimes I get the feeling that Xbox fans act like their dads ( MS as a company in this case ) which have a lot of money and can buy whatever they want and act how they want. Like spoiled brats.



Yeah, reality is something different.

Fanboys also read what they want into things due to their own bias. I was actually posting that I think Google and Amazon in the future are going to change the industry. If you knew anything about how these two companies operate you would understand the point I was making.
But carry on.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Page 600 y'all.

I already paged him, he's preparing is post

What's the consensus now about the PS5 GitHub leak? Can anyone please inform me?

It floped

AKA between February 1st and February 29th, eh ?

Maybe the 14/2

Killzone and inFamous were average at best.

Resogun was fun for the first 15 minutes.

Launch titles are usually kind of mediocre.

You take that back about Killzone mister!

 

[Fitzchiv]

I'm always curious why people feel the need to defend MS or Sony so adamantly. Maybe Microsoft should come out and clarify what to expect from next gen versions of their games. I really don't understand why you (and a bunch of others) feel the need to defend something like this.

They've put out a semi controversial or poorly worded statement around next generation games. Let them own it and address it themselves.

There's a reason this stuff goes out in an ambiguous way, early. They will watch reaction and debate carefully, then calibrate the message against that for when they say something "properly". There won't be any DRM style mistakes again, imo.

There's a lot of obfuscating language being used, so let's put these approaches down clearly:

PS/Nintendo: the console you buy will be supported for 6-7y, with consistent exclusive titles making best use of it.
After this time we'll move on to supporting next-gen for another cycle.
Some optional HW revisions will be available.

MS: Your console will be made obsolete at an undisclosed time of our preference; there will always be better hw just about to launch (see their E3s since 2016).
Exclusive support is patchy or absent (2017 for X1, no exclusives for SeX) depending on what we want to push.
HW revisions will replace what you own, and we'll only nominally support your platform with knee-capped ports.




P.S. There's stuff MS is pushing that's worthwhile, like GP, but "no exclusives for up to 2 years" is a bad idea that only brand-loyalists could defend.

The entire practice of cherry picking (Sony released a Pro hardware solution first, remember?) points, subjectively applying logic to them before wrapping it up as a rational correction is, for me, "obfuscation".

Just saying.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I already paged him, he's preparing is post



It floped


Maybe the 14/2


You take that back about Killzone mister!

Word Infamous still looks and plays better than half the games tht came after it on any console.

Killzone mp was awesome imo

Resogun I finished and enjoyed immensely more than exclusives tht came on other systems in the middle of its life or at the end when thy should have been good but just weren't

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Word Infamous still looks and plays better than half the games tht came after it on any console.

Killzone mp was awesome imo

Resogun I finished and enjoyed immensely more than exclusives tht came on other systems in the middle of its life or at the end when thy shouod have been good but just weren't

My thoughts too, but had to single out Killzone because it's my favorite ps franchise

 

[sinnergy]

You're again using vague language and a "holier than thou" attitude to justify a bad approach that has repeatedly failed in the market.

That’s because it’s long term , not short term like 1 or 2 console generations, they make enough money as is.

 

[Nickolaidas]

There's a lot of obfuscating language being used, so let's put these approaches down clearly:

PS/Nintendo: the console you buy will be supported for 6-7y, with consistent exclusive titles making best use of it.
After this time we'll move on to supporting next-gen for another cycle.
Some optional HW revisions will be available.

MS: Your console will be made obsolete at an undisclosed time of our preference; there will always be better hw just about to launch (see their E3s since 2016).
Exclusive support is patchy or absent (2017 for X1, no exclusives for SeX) depending on what we want to push.
HW revisions will replace what you own, and we'll only nominally support your platform with knee-capped ports.

Wait, what?

"MS: Your console will be made obsolete at an undisclosed time of our preference"
As opposed to Sony and Nintendo? Do we choose when the PS4 and the Switch will become obsolete?

"MS: HW revisions will replace what you own"
The X1X replaced the X1 as much as the Pro replaced the PS4. And by claiming that the Series X won't launch first-party games which won't be playable on the X-Box One S, MS is doing the exact opposite of what you claim - the HW revisions do NOT replace what you own.

 

[Tulipanzo]

The entire practice of cherry picking (Sony released a Pro hardware solution first, remember?) points, subjectively applying logic to them before wrapping it up as a rational correction is, for me, "obfuscation".

Just saying.

The entire ethos of that box was to appear "optional", from design, to tech, to marketing.
Sony never mentioned the Pro on the E3 stage, and even used the base model for GoW trailers.

By comparison the base X1 has been discontinued, and has hardly been mentioned since the X1X announcement.


Still, good job ignoring my point that this is a failing strategy mr. cherrypicking.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Wait, what?

"MS: Your console will be made obsolete at an undisclosed time of our preference"
As opposed to Sony and Nintendo? Do we choose when the PS4 and the Switch will become obsolete?

"MS: HW revisions will replace what you own"
The X1X replaced the X1 as much as the Pro replaced the PS4. And by claiming that the Series X won't launch first-party games which won't be playable on the X-Box One S, MS is doing the exact opposite of what you claim - the HW revisions do NOT replace what you own.

To each of your points:
1) MS is saying there won't be any SeX exclusives for "at least 1 year", meaning your X1 is going to stop being supported at some point in 2021-2022.
When? Who knows, depends on how well cross-gen titles sell.

With PS4 and Switch support has been way more consistent, and they will be replaced when the new system is out.

2) The X1X has all but replaced the X1, in both marketing and targeting.
Several X1 run fairly poorly, and are almost exclusively marketed with the X1X, and the base model has already been discontinued.

As I explained above, the Pro's is a wholly optional upgrade, with Sony doing the barest minimum to market it so as to not disrupt the base PS4 sales.

 

[Tulipanzo]

That’s because it’s long term , not short term like 1 or 2 console generations, they make enough money as is.

The idea that no long-term judgement can be made from short-term data is ridiculous.
This is economics, not divination.

At this point you have nearly nothing to base your confidence on.
MS doesn't share MAU or HW sales, but their approach has resulted in declining hw revenue and flat service revenue at a time of industry growth.

If theirs were a winning trend, than we absolutely would have seen results.
At this point however, yours is purely conjecture.

 

[Henry Clark]

Keep your expectations reasonable.

 

[Henry Clark]

Both consoles are very powerful but people are expecting so much especially fanboys

 

[Henry Clark]

Invites will come soon.

 

[Fitzchiv]

The entire ethos of that box was to appear "optional", from design, to tech, to marketing.
Sony never mentioned the Pro on the E3 stage, and even used the base model for GoW trailers.

By comparison the base X1 has been discontinued, and has hardly been mentioned since the X1X announcement.


Still, good job ignoring my point that this is a failing strategy mr. cherrypicking.

So when MS says the options will include base XBO upwards, that's not presenting a range?

Back to you Mr Obfuscation.

 

[Tulipanzo]

So when MS says the options will include base XBO upwards, that's not presenting a range?

Back to you Mr Obfuscation.

I neve claimed it's not presenting a range, just that the lower end would probably get a poorly running port (which is already happening by the by).

What exactly am I obfuscating here?
I thought your concern was in claiming the Pro was "optional", and I explained my reasoning there.

 

[DJ12]

Invites will come soon.

Get verified, get out or stop pretending you have insider knowledge.

The internet is a wash with rumours of this already anyone could join and post this.

We've had too many pretend insiders now enough is enough.

 

[Nikana]

There's a lot of obfuscating language being used, so let's put these approaches down clearly:

PS/Nintendo: the console you buy will be supported for 6-7y, with consistent exclusive titles making best use of it.
After this time we'll move on to supporting next-gen for another cycle.
Some optional HW revisions will be available.

MS: Your console will be made obsolete at an undisclosed time of our preference; there will always be better hw just about to launch (see their E3s since 2016).
Exclusive support is patchy or absent (2017 for X1, no exclusives for SeX) depending on what we want to push.
HW revisions will replace what you own, and we'll only nominally support your platform with knee-capped ports.




P.S. There's stuff MS is pushing that's worthwhile, like GP, but "no exclusives for up to 2 years" is a bad idea that only brand-loyalists could defend.

This is legit the most backwards ass comment I've seen in a long time here.

 

[TeamGhobad]

no xsx eclusive games at launch is disappointing. ps5 wins in this regard.

 

[sonomamashine]

it's like buying a thousand dollar champagne only to dilute it with water to make it last longer. it's like paying for a $2,000 hooker then blindfolding yourself and pretending you are having sex with your own wife. it's like buying a $1500 rtx 2080 ti to play minecraft with ray tracing.

You need help ASAP

Dearest Heisenberg, Please share some juicy hearsay.

He said rtx 2080 perf

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Fanboys also read what they want into things due to their own bias. I was actually posting that I think Google and Amazon in the future are going to change the industry. If you knew anything about how these two companies operate you would understand the point I was making.
But carry on.

Nice try to spin things.

This part of your post surely implies on infinite war chest and how only MS, Google and Amazon can change the industry because they HAVE MOOOOOONEY.

Google and MS throwing money around to buy up studios it's going to get pretty crazy. Google could buy up EA, Activision and Ubisoft and not even blink. So could MS. Sony has no chance at this game. They just don't have the money.

Same thing happened before this gen. MS HAS MOOOOOOONEY!
This thread is a pure goldmine :

Your predictions for The Big Three at the end of The Next Generation.

The present: we have some idea of where Nintendo are going with the Wii U and 3DS. We've seen Sony's next-gen handheld, but have nothing concrete on either Sony or Microsoft's home console offerings. We're living in an explosion of mobile phone gaming, and Facebook games have become serious...

www.neogaf.com

 

[FranXico]

Guys, Jason Schreier from Kotaku said in his latest podcast he heard several developers saying that both consoles are gonna be more powerful than an Nvidia RTX 2080 and that both consoles will be as powerful as each other, meaning equally as powerful, like he said for multiple times as of now.

This coincides with what Kleegamefan has been saying for a long time.

Schreier doesn't know what a 2080 can do, I think.

 

[Aceofspades]

Nice try to spin things.

This part of your post surely implies on infinite war chest and how only MS, Google and Amazon can change the industry because they HAVE MOOOOOONEY.



Same thing happened before this gen. MS HAS MOOOOOOONEY!
This thread is a pure goldmine :

Your predictions for The Big Three at the end of The Next Generation.

The present: we have some idea of where Nintendo are going with the Wii U and 3DS. We've seen Sony's next-gen handheld, but have nothing concrete on either Sony or Microsoft's home console offerings. We're living in an explosion of mobile phone gaming, and Facebook games have become serious...

www.neogaf.com

That thread is always a joy to get back to it tells you how much some nerds are disconnected from reality lol.

 

[Von Hugh]

Keep your expectations reasonable.

Both consoles are very powerful but people are expecting so much especially fanboys

Invites will come soon.

Get verified or piss off with your attention seeking multiposts.

 

[DaGwaphics]

What is happening in here. LOL

Post after post talking about the low quality of XSX games at launch, when no one knows what the lineup will be and how they will play on the new console. Maybe at least wait to see some gameplay trailers first.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Invites will come soon.

Could you be more specific, my agenda is very limited right now and don't see that change any time soon.

 

[Reindeer]

Schreier doesn't know what a 2080 can do, I think.

Many people have stated that at 12 tflops consoles should be somewhere between 2080 and 2080 TI.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Guys that patent is about backward compitability . Not native next gen instruction numbers.

Dont fall for that .

Be quiet! This is the new FP16!!!

 

[Self_Destructive]

Schreier doesn't know what a 2080 can do, I think.

If developers are telling him that then why would he have to?

 

[martino]

in summary : does you game need to look next gen or does your game need to push next gen gameplay to be marketed and please a maximum of early adopters ?
outside zealotism, the answer seems easy.
Sure it can be both but one is enougth for it to work imo

 

[Arlgrim]

Schreier doesn't know what a 2080 can do, I think.

Maybe , but "several developers" is another thing.

 

[sinnergy]

The idea that no long-term judgement can be made from short-term data is ridiculous.
This is economics, not divination.

At this point you have nearly nothing to base your confidence on.
MS doesn't share MAU or HW sales, but their approach has resulted in declining hw revenue and flat service revenue at a time of industry growth.

If theirs were a winning trend, than we absolutely would have seen results.
At this point however, yours is purely conjecture.

Except it’s not, Gamepass is starting/working, it’s a bigger overall picture , not everyone is forward looking. Transitioning to a completely different model is not easy, service based and will take time. It’s a change in the mental model and maybe even not understandable for current generations, look at how people now use music or movies compared to 5/10 years ago.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Schreier doesn't know what a 2080 can do, I think.

He went out of his way to clarify that he's not sure about the 2080 comments, and that he doesn't want to be quoted on it.

So yes, I wouldn't really consider this as confirmation of anything.

 

[Reindeer]

Except it’s not, Gamepass is starting/working, it’s a bigger overall picture , not everyone is forward looking. Transitioning to a completely different model is not easy, service based and will take time. It’s a change in the mental model and maybe even not understandable for current generations, look at how people now use music or movies compared to 5/10 years ago.

That's the problem isn't it, Microsoft doing things now that aren't going to work now. Why not do the 10 year thing in 10 years and do now what works now? One can only defend a strategy when it works and right now Microsoft is being dominated by both Sony and Nintendo who are implementing strategies that currently work.

 

[Tsaki]

I mean, nvidia has a much better efficiency than AMD... that's why their GPUs perform better while having less TFs. But you probs know that @HeisenbergFX4

Anyway beating a 10TF nvidia card would probably take more than 12TF RDNA from AMD.

I think with RDNA, AMD has almost caught up with Nvidia in the performance per TeraFlop department (though Turing is a 2018 design, not 2019). It's in the performance per Watt department that Nvidia thrashes AMD, and RDNA1 already has a process node advantage with 7nm.

 

[sinnergy]

That's the problem isn't it, Microsoft doing things now that aren't going to work now. Why not do the 10 year thing in 10 years and do now what works now? One can only defend a strategy when it works and right now Microsoft is being dominated by both Sony and Nintendo who are implementing strategies that currently work.

Yes currently, maybe they don’t care as much about that as the others, maybe they think that it’s all going to change, maybe they want to future proof that, and maybe they will fail... but they could also succeed.

I like that they take risks and try different approaches.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

What is happening in here. LOL

Post after post talking about the low quality of XSX games at launch, when no one knows what the lineup will be and how they will play on the new console. Maybe at least wait to see some gameplay trailers first.

Seeing trailers doesn't matter. However good a game looks in a trailer it would still look better or take advantage of the tech more if it didn't need to run on the S

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Going forward needs forward thinking and handling , it’s not for all , I know.

As with all Innovations, you don’t have to buy or use it.

it’s like: apple removing headphone jack, and the cell phone introduction, why do I need it I have a phone at home or a pager.

This same stuff was said after the X1 reveal and could be used as an excuse for almost any badly received idea. We can still analyze a business decision and criticize it even if it is new