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[The Bloody-Nine]

No they're absolutely not, people intertwine them regularly.

I mean look at you, "the controls are trash"... Why? WHY? Explain yourself.

You say people don't want to waste their time, well people have seemingly wasted their time coming into threads like this constantly and many others elsewhere to incessantly whine to the high heavens about control issues, realism and animations being a detriment and they're expected to be taken seriously without explanation. That's just stupid, if you can't logically and coherently explain your criticism when asked then take a hike.

It's basically drive by shit posting if I'm being honest, criticism without explanation is shit posting and out of dozens and dozens of people saying this crap I've still yet to see a single person elaborate, not one. It's nothing to do with emotional investment, it has to do with people acting like they're coherent enough to form criticism but when contested about why they're saying these things? *crickets* and then people like you coming in to white knight for the views of others who appear to be completely incapable of even rationalizing their own views, it should be easy...

Multiple people in this fucking thread have told you precisely what their issues with the controls are. You close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and repeat the same bullshit over and over. "But...but no one can tell me WHY the controls suck". Nonsense.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Multiple people in this fucking thread have told you precisely what their issues with the controls are. You close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and repeat the same bullshit over and over. "But...but no one can tell me WHY the controls suck". Nonsense.

No they have absolutely not, it's been a bunch of vague nonsense and complaining.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I heard so many people complaining about controls that I decided to wait on it. Once I bought it, I dont know what all the fuss is about. Biggest problem I can tell is that the same button could be used in 3 different situations for 3 different things. For example: L2 in front of the hourse, L2 on foot and L2 on horse. 3 completely different commands but still, maybe in the beginning I shot by mistake and spooked the crowd but other than that I never got into these situations where I mistakenly killed someone when I wanted to greet them. Like how...controls are very well explained but you need to use them in order to get used to them.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

No they have absolutely not, it's been a bunch of vague nonsense and complaining.

Bullshit. Number one: horrendous input lag, mentioned more than once. Address it.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

No they're absolutely not, people intertwine them regularly.

I mean look at you, "the controls are trash"... Why? WHY? Explain yourself.

You say people don't want to waste their time, well people have seemingly wasted their time coming into threads like this constantly and many others elsewhere to incessantly whine to the high heavens about control issues, realism and animations being a detriment and they're expected to be taken seriously without explanation. That's just stupid, if you can't logically and coherently explain your criticism when asked then take a hike.

It's basically drive by shit posting if I'm being honest, criticism without explanation is shit posting and out of dozens and dozens of people saying this crap I've still yet to see a single person elaborate, not one. It's nothing to do with emotional investment, it has to do with people acting like they're coherent enough to form criticism but when contested about why they're saying these things? *crickets* and then people like you coming in to white knight for the views of others who appear to be completely incapable of even rationalizing their own views, it should be easy...

You get so angry at criticism of this game. I see you're in a pissing contest in another RDR2 thread right now. Why should anybody bother?

Maybe seeing "dozens and dozens" of people saying the same thing should give you second thoughts regarding your own objectivity.

 

[Aenima]

I liked the complex and realistic controls, what i dont liked is that sometimes they are not that realistic and fall apart. The thing that annoyed me most was the fact that the character would store the rifles in the horse automaticly and during combat if you get out of the horse you leave the weapons behind. Having to re-equip the weapons all the time is not realistic or any fun at all. Also minor grip with having to press the trigger 2 times to shoot a gun. Once to ready the weapon and another to shoot. Just when rapid tapping multiple times each press would be a shot.
One more thing is the imput lag, you dont need that amount of imput lag to make realistic controls.

At the end of the day, RDR2 controls are mediocre because all this things start pilling up making the experience more frustating than fun.

 

[Revolutionary]

What baffles me the most about RDR2's controls is that Rockstar threw out everything they learned from GTAIV's reception. Most of GTAIV's players agree that the 'realistic' approach was a detriment to the gameplay, and yet with RDR2 they made the perplexing decision to double down on the 'realism'.
Like RDR2, GTAIV isn't a bad game by any means, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who prefers the 'realistic' controls of IV over the Arcadey approach to GTAV.

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

Since some people want specific examples of why the animations ruin the fluidity: There's usually only one spot where a character can interact with an object. The prompt might be on screen, but when Arthur tries to get to the object and stand in the ONE particular spot he must to initiate the pick up animation, he bumbles around like an idiot and sometimes doesn't even reach the spot to pick up the object which means the action just fails. There is a simplified failsafe animation that sometimes activates so you still get the object, but it's more likely to just fail than do that I've found.
Other problems might partially be the blame of the control scheme and many of these problems are probably amplified because other systems like the Wanted/Bounty system(which feels like it was outsourced to a different development team and tacked on rather than integrated efficiently) don't work properly.

 

[Mojoraisin]

The problems I find with RDR2 are related to Mission Structure, the way Arthur/

Spoiler

John

actually controls, and the Wanted System. All three of these Systems are seriously flawed and drag the game far away from perfection.
Starting with the controls, the original game and GTAIV before that had a handful of problems with characters having a few too many animations. These animations would cause a disconnect between the player's inputs and the character's actions. Red Dead Redemption is SO much worse than both of the former examples. Arthur has long animations for most actions in the game, these animations also have a serious tendency to fail or cancel which cause the player's desired action to go unfulfilled. Very frustrating in a game this dynamic where the player's personal priority might change in the time it takes to complete an animation.
The mission structure is another frustrating element. It's one thing to have a set objective, this isn't an RPG, but it's an entirely different thing to have only one heavily-guided way to complete it. RDR2's mission design feels worse and more restrictive than GTAIV, Rockstar has crafted the content it wants you to see and any deviance that might cause you to miss this content results in a fail condition. It reminds me of Uncharted 2(only one I completed), a game which I did not enjoy at all, in that game Naughty Dog crafted the game in such a way that everyone has the same experience and attempts to create your own are punished immediately. See video: Red Dead 2 Mission Design
The wanted system is the biggest disappointment. It's so broken, it lacks considerations for self-defense, it does not punish NPCs, it does not consider WHO you attacked/robbed/murdered, and it is always able to identify you. GTAIV had a beautifully well crafted wanted system, you could call the police and have them fight your battles for you.

Red Dead Redemption is a seriously flawed game, 6/10, would not 100% again.

TI've outrun gangs trying to rob me and they've gotten in pistol fights with the police and then searching for them. Agree that it's not a great mechanic though and GTA V was better in this aspect.

 

[Mattyp]

I'll go out and say it yet again, that RDR2 is a shit boring game with horrendous controls that makes it unplayable.

RDR1 was in my top 3 of last gen. This title is honestly horrible and was a waste of $80 bucks.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Bullshit. Number one: horrendous input lag, mentioned more than once. Address it.

What are you basing this on exactly? That video from one PlayStation console? You do realise that input lag is not platform agnostic right? Input lag can vary from build to build, from system to system, from software package to software package. What is indicative in one place may or may not be indicative elsewhere, this is tried and true reality for many games that suffer from input lag.

The fact is this game has some but it's not bad, at least not on an Xbox One X. This is recorded at 240 FPS so 8x the speed of the framerate, so high that you can actually see the TV flicker. Does this look bad? No, this looks like totally average response, you have to factor in dead zone, you have to factor in the TV too which is roughly 18ms, this ain't shit. DOOM's input latency is around 87ms which is relatively low and it's a 60 FPS game, RDR2 responds almost in unison with it.



Was that enough of a response for you?

Maybe nobody wants to waste their time getting into an argument with someone who is getting so bent o

You get so angry at criticism of this game. I see you're in a pissing contest in another RDR2 thread right now. Why should anybody bother?

Translation: "I have nothing to say"

 

[1inthechamber_]

Kane and Lynch.

As much as I wanted to get into those. The controls were shit and I couldn't enjoy it.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

What are you basing this on exactly? That video from one PlayStation console? You do realise that input lag is not platform agnostic right? Input lag can vary from build to build, from system to system, from software package to software package. What is indicative in one place may or may not be indicative elsewhere, this is tried and true reality for many games that suffer from input lag.

The fact is this game has some but it's not bad, at least not on an Xbox One X. This is recorded at 240 FPS so 8x the speed of the framerate, so high that you can actually see the TV flicker. Does this look bad? No, this looks like totally average response, you have to factor in dead zone, you have to factor in the TV too which is roughly 18ms, this ain't shit. DOOM's input latency is around 87ms which is relatively low and it's a 60 FPS game, RDR2 responds almost in unison with it.



Was that enough of a response for you?

It's not bad?

https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/710493/Red+Dead+Redemption+2s+heavy+input+lag+measured/


I wish I had standards as low as yours.

 

[spookyfish]

So far, I'm feeling this way about Spider-Man. The camera work in close areas (the art auction house) makes it difficult to dodge the bad guys—I keep vaulting *into* their attacks.

And the AI should really send you after the most dangerous bad guy (one with guns) in a group when you web vault from a distance. Instead, I almost always go after the guy next to the one with the gun, get locked into attack animations, and then get shot.

I realize some of this may be me ("get good") but it happens A LOT.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It's not that bad?

https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/710493/Red+Dead+Redemption+2s+heavy+input+lag+measured/


I wish I had standards as low as yours.

It's as if you're entirely incapable of reading.

What are you basing this on exactly? That video from one PlayStation console? You do realise that input lag is not platform agnostic right? Input lag can vary from build to build, from system to system, from software package to software package. What is indicative in one place may or may not be indicative elsewhere, this is tried and true reality for many games that suffer from input lag.

That graph you just posted is pulled directly from that PlayStation 4 video, that is the data from that PlayStation 4 video...

Jesus, get a grip...

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

It's as if you're entirely incapable of reading.

That graph you just posted is pulled directly from that PlayStation 4 video, that is the data from that PlayStation 4 video...

Jesus, get a grip...

It's as if you are a blind fanboy incapable of accepting valid criticism of a game because you love it. Actually, that's exactly what it is. Later.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It's as if you are a blind fanboy incapable of accepting valid criticism of a game because you love it. Actually, that's exactly what it is. Later.

Why would I accept the input lag from one platform and apply it to another? That's stupid, that's something a stupid person would do.

The input lag on Xbox One X is in the 90ms range which is a far cry from what that PlayStation 4 video shows, how do I know this? Well probably because DOOM has been extensively tested and its average response is 87ms and RDR2 responds almost identically with it. This is a fact as seen here... 240 FPS recording, not exactly a lot to argue with pal.



Your criticism isn't valid, you've backed yourself into a corner because you don't read what is being said and respond to things you didn't read preemptively. Remember Rise of the Tomb Raider? Yeah well that game has varying input response depending on platform as well, it's not a one size fits all equation. Input lag IS NOT INTRINSICALLY PLATFORM AGNOSTIC.

 

[ultrazilla]

Since Rockstar use the Euphoria Physics Engine for their characters, I've tolerated the "control lag" that's come with their games.

Mind you, I didn't say I was happy with them, just that I tolerate them. I still have a huge amount of Red Dead 2 to play before I'm anywhere near finishing it and
the controls do at times make me quit the game. It's a love-hate relationship.

 

[Raven117]

I thought they were fine. Now, the pacing that takes forever to do anything... that's a different matter.

Still loved it though.

 

[Ivellios]

No they're absolutely not, people intertwine them regularly.

I mean look at you, "the controls are trash"... Why? WHY? Explain yourself.

You say people don't want to waste their time, well people have seemingly wasted their time coming into threads like this constantly and many others elsewhere to incessantly whine to the high heavens about control issues, realism and animations being a detriment and they're expected to be taken seriously without explanation. That's just stupid, if you can't logically and coherently explain your criticism when asked then take a hike.

It's basically drive by shit posting if I'm being honest, criticism without explanation is shit posting and out of dozens and dozens of people saying this crap I've still yet to see a single person elaborate, not one. It's nothing to do with emotional investment, it has to do with people acting like they're coherent enough to form criticism but when contested about why they're saying these things? *crickets* and then people like you coming in to white knight for the views of others who appear to be completely incapable of even rationalizing their own views, it should be easy...

Man you should not take criticism of your favorite game like that, no one here is shitposting just because they dont enjoy some aspects of the game

Also nobody is gonna write you a detailed essay of why they dont like the controls.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Man you should not take criticism of your favorite game like that, no one here is shitposting just because they dont enjoy some aspects of the game

Also nobody is gonna write you a detailed essay of why they dont like the controls.

Then they shouldn't be discussing it, if you can't quantify your issues with the controls then you're just whining. Whining provides nothing to a discussion, it doesn't further it, it doesn't provide information, it doesn't showcase your actual problem, it doesn't inform.

It's shit posting.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

Translation: "I have nothing to say"

Not to you I don't. Wallow in your misery solo.

 

[Hendrick's]

The controls are bad, but I got used to them eventually. Overall, it didn't effect my enjoyment much outside of the first 10 hours. It's still a shame though.

 

[Javthusiast]

Controls are shit. I just learned to live with them cause I, despite them and the terrible rigid mission structure, still have fun with the game and will finish it.

 

[Ivellios]

Then they shouldn't be discussing it, if you can't quantify your issues with the controls then you're just whining. Whining provides nothing to a discussion, it doesn't further it, it doesn't provide information, it doesn't showcase your actual problem, it doesn't inform.

It's shit posting.

But people already explained why they think the controls are bad, you are just ignoring their opnion.

Input lag, confusing button layout and excess of realism are detrimental to gameplay in the opnion of some (mine too).

These are valid criticisms and in no way shitposting

 

[zwiggelbig]

This is becoming a problem for me as well, i mean the game is very fun but the excess of realism (hunting, feeding, even having to take baths, etc) just become boring after a while.

And its not really optional either since you need to do these things for camp and equipment upgrades. If you dont feed you get weak, If you dont take bath and shave people in the game complain as well.

Those baths are freaking aweesomeeee

 

[Trapper Dave]

I find the controls very sluggish with some input delay. It almost feels like the game is only taking my inputs and following them when it feels like it.

 

[Jigsaah]

Controls are bad, but honestly my biggest problem with this game is...it's just not fun. It's story telling is great, the graphics are amazing, the attention to detail is epic. But I'm not exactly a western fan and the gameplay suffers from the realism that the controls can't and maybe shouldn't escape from. I know that sounds odd but think about it. With better controls, not just the buttons themselves, but in Arthur's movement...if he wasn't so...weighted down. Things would be less realistic, but possibly more fun. I don't know if I'm making sense or not.

 

[Meowzers]

New Rockstar game comes out.

Everyone buys new Rockstar game.

Everyone notices the controls and gameplay are dog shit.

New Rockstar game comes out.

Everyone buys new Rockstar game.

Everyone notices the controls and gameplay are dog shit.

Notice a pattern here? This is equally applicable to Bethesda jank although that last shitty Fallout might have been the final straw for even the ball gag swallowing gaming consumer.

There's only one solution to this problem.

Wait until the next Rockstar game comes out?

 

[V4skunk]

Played in first person view 100% of the time.
Controls are almost perfect.

 

[Outrunner]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to appreciate Red Dead Redemption 2's controls. The responsiveness is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of superfluous animations most of the inputs will go over a typical gamer's head...

Was missing that meme.

 

[The Last of Us]

The Witcher series. Absolutely hated the controls

 

[Fake]

Are people defending input lag?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

But people already explained why they think the controls are bad, you are just ignoring their opnion.

Input lag, confusing button layout and excess of realism are detrimental to gameplay in the opnion of some (mine too).

These are valid criticisms and in no way shitposting

People are being extremely vague with their responses, that's not an explanation, that's giving you a landscape idea of something and then not explaining the view.

Input lag? I already compared that on an Xbox One X with a camera at 240 FPS and it's nigh identical to DOOM which has about 87ms of latency. Just as a reference that's about the same amount as Dead or Alive 5 or Injustice 2. That's good response time.

Confusion in controls is brought on by a lack of effort or willful ability to learn. The controls are not confusing, you simply have to acclimatize to them and learn. Excess in realism? Again extremely vague criticism.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The Witcher series. Absolutely hated the controls

Best game ever though, at the time to the consensus. So we have come full circle again.

 

[Ivellios]

People are being extremely vague with their responses, that's not an explanation, that's giving you a landscape idea of something and then not explaining the view.

Input lag? I already compared that on an Xbox One X with a camera at 240 FPS and it's nigh identical to DOOM which has about 87ms of latency. Just as a reference that's about the same amount as Dead or Alive 5 or Injustice 2. That's good response time.

Confusion in controls is brought on by a lack of effort or willful ability to learn. The controls are not confusing, you simply have to acclimatize to them and learn. Excess in realism? Again extremely vague criticism.

Myself and others explained in detail our criticism, at this point i think that no matter how elaborate we explain, you will just ignore it

About input lag, i believe people complain because the character takes too long to respond to command

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Myself and others explained in detail our criticism, at this point i think that no matter how elaborate we explain, you will just ignore it

About input lag, i believe people complain because the character takes too long to respond to command

Attempting to converse with rabid fanboys is pointless. Save your breath.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Myself and others explained in detail our criticism, at this point i think that no matter how elaborate we explain, you will just ignore it

About input lag, i believe people complain because the character takes too long to respond to command

None of you have, you've been extremely vague in everything you've said. If what you're saying was the case it would be easy for you to quote chain a few things, this is only a two page thread and I've read everything. As stated it's been a bunch of surface level criticism that doesn't delve into real problems or how the experience of the game is negatively hampered.

Attempting to converse with rabid fanboys is pointless. Save your breath.

You can say whatever you want, you're trying to play devil's advocate and doing no more than the rest. You don't have a leg to stand on. You think the controls are garbage and can't rationalize into words why, your ability to articulate criticism is terrible and you expect people to accept what you say at face value without so much as an explanation.

You're peddling god theory, you expect people to just take you at your word, that's ridiculous. Your scapegoat is to just disregard me and what I'm saying, calling me a "rabid fanboy" is your escape route and it's pathetic, you're not a critical thinker and it shows.

 

[Arkage]

You agreed to a contest even though you were unequipped for it. You forgot how the dead eye works, ran out of it, and had to manually shoot. He asks you for double or nothing, and you still accept even though you are having difficulty, and now you're complaining that you didn't bring the right weapon for the job, auto targeting isn't gong to work with a handgun for birds a hundred yards away. How is any of this the fault of RD2's controls??


The only thing I can think of really from the recent past is The Last Guardian, and maybe that has more to do with fighting the AI, but yeah. I felt like I was always fighting that game to have fun with it.

The double or nothing said nothing about shooting birds until after you accepted meaning if you didn't have the right weapon on you you're screwed. I felt confident in just manually shooting bottles a second time since I did OK the first time time but that isn't what happened. Shit game.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Even I managed to successfully navigate that little competition, despite the atrocious controls.

 

[Vawn]

The controls aren't great. But, the game still does so much right, the overall experience is fantastic.

God of War is still the clear cut Game of the Year though.

 

[SebastianM]

I had zero problems with the controls, everything works as expected, obviously I didn't expect 60fps shooter smoothness as these are not the type of games to require such finesse, but as I said, everthing felt real smooth. Maybe some of you guys should look into the settings of your display, if you leave everything on default it can add an awful lot of input lag on top of whats already in there.

 

[Thing on a Spring]

The game is Amazing. It's just not fun due to the clunky, unresponsive control scheme. The story, acting world, characters can't be faulted. I wish the same were true for the gameplay. Just have the epilogue to complete now and the sooner the better to be honest.

 

[Nymphae]

The double or nothing said nothing about shooting birds until after you accepted meaning if you didn't have the right weapon on you you're screwed.

Still has nothing to do with controls at all.

 

[cr0w]

Maybe I've just played too many Rockstar games, but the controls feel just right to me. It's the exact same scheme and feel as GTA V, the characters actually have some weight to them as opposed to feeling like they're on roller skates, i.e. Witcher 3 or the newer Assassin's Creeds.

The characters just feel tangible, for lack of a better word. I felt the same way this past weekend firing up AC Unity for the first time in a while...compared to newer games, the characters had weight and a sense of realism thanks to intricate animations and physics that ape how a real live human would move. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, OP, but the situation you're describing with the shooting contest seems self-inflicted.

 

[EDMIX]

I haven't played the game but based on most people's complain, R* went little too far with "realism" for sake immersion which apparently makes it pain the ass to play.

I personally can get immersed in games like DQXI that has very cartoony artstyle. I don't need realism or useless survival mechanics, I just need to care about the characters and the world.

Honestly, thats not even the issue. The issue is the game is legit boring at times and the missions are so damn dated its not even funny.

I just did a mission where I gave a note to someone.....and then went in a wagon across town and mission done....that isn't a side quest folks, that is a LEGIT MAIN MISSION! lol

Put it this way, if they had it from jump where you robbed a train, then got in a shoot out, took someone hostage, did a deal to get MORE MONEY from the person you kidnapped them from, then used those funds to rob a bank and a bunch of other places at a break neck speed......I don't think folks would be talking about how boring it is. Has nothing to do with old west, everything to do with the direction of the game. Plenty of amazing old west film concepts that can be done ,yet the game has this pace that is putting me to sleep and I like the game folks LOL!

Its not a bad game really, but don't expect 3;10 to Yuma....expect Dr. Quinn Medicine woman LMFAO!

Don't get me started on those controls. It makes zero sense to keep having folks HOLD a button to confirm they want to do something, excuse my language GAF but WHY THE FUCK would I need to keep letting the game know that I indeed want to pick up deer, yes I want to put on horse and yes....I want to get on horse. Those don't need a damn button to hold down to confirm as if we talking about pulling the plug on a loved one.

Why is he WALKING indoors as if he has no lose the ability to run? WTF? Are we in Japan now? LOL! BRUH! One time I was in some shack and a gang was shooting at me and he was walking in the house like nothing was happening as if he was this old person with bad knees. Not only do the controls make no sense, the design over all of the game makes no sense.


I still love the IP and don't regret my purchase, but I won't also pretend these ideas aren't dated and the games pacing is just awful. Those making the excuse that its cause its the wild west, I disagree.

Missions robbing trains, banks, rich folk are extremely far apart and someone told me you can't even rob banks during the normal open world as in its not a optional thing that you can do (never mind that this is a damn game about that entire concept of robbing places and you can already ROB PEOPLE)


Too many give this team a pass and need to be honest about this games short comings, its world is well crafted and looks amazing, but this can't receive any real GOTY status with so many issues and dated ideas.

God Of War very much deserves that title for 2018

 

[Spukc]

Just wing it and play the game for the story.
Ignore sidequest stuff.
Game is worth it to finish at least.
After that?

Eh did not care at all

 

[TheMay30thMan]

I can understand complaining about the controls if you've never played a Rockstar game. However to put this as nicely as I can... if you're going to piss and moan about the controls of what I would consider one of the greatest games ever made, then do yourself a favor and stop playing games.

This game literally made me cry, no game has ever done that before. And you want to bitch about the buttons......sorry put on your big boy pants and try harder.

So the people that didn't like the controls of RDR2 should quit playing video games because the story made you cry? Lol

 

[bhunachicken]

Best thing I ever did with this game was buy a physical copy. It ensured I was able to sell it when I reached chapter 5 and realised how massively overrated and disappointing it was. RDR2 is the gaming world's The Last Jedi.

£46 from Amazon, £40 cash to CEX. £6 down.

Almost bought it digitally. Almost. Dodged that bullet.

 

[lock2k]

I abandoned the first one because I hated controlling the horse.