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[Ratrat]

Dude I think he's just trying to be cute, but comes across as a dumbass. He's not even saying Japanese words apparently. He's saying English words that he's fully capable of pronouncing correctly, and doing it in a Japanese accent for whatever reason.

Like if you walked into a Curry place and some Michael Cera looking motherfucker was randomly going Apu on your ass, you wouldn't think he was full of shit lol?

There is, in my opinion a difference between a real Japanese accent and the immediate stereotypes someone who doesnt speak the language run to.

The article only has his saying delicious with a Japanese accent. For all I know its like people who insist on pronouncing manga names correctly even when they are speaking in english.

Delicious may be english, but its used in Japan like a thousand other words. I just hope he said 'deliciousu'.

Edit:
Er, this is the exact opposite of saying 'ching chong' I knew someone would try that.

 

[wandering]

Maybe I missed it in the article, but who is he addressing when he talks like that? For example, a native English speaker using katakana English to a native Japanese speaker in order to be better understand is perfectly fine in my opinion. It makes you sound like an asshole, but it works. I think that's what the poster on the first page was talking about with her sister in Thailand. But perhaps that's not what's going on with this chef.

I think it's pretty clear it's not about clarity of communication.

Multiple sources, including tipsters and Eater staffers, have seen him speaking in the accent during the meal — a component of the party-like atmosphere he’s known for bringing to his restaurants. During service, he casually moves from speaking Japanese, to speaking English with a fake Japanese intonation, to speaking English in his natural American accent. For instance, he might present a fish in English, say “oishi, oishi” (Japanese for delicious), and then follow it up with “dericious, dericious” in his version of a Japanese accent.

When I called Bouhadana to talk about it, he confirmed he does this. He characterized these bits of accented English as “little fun jokes,” which he likened to how the Japanese chefs who work for him use an American accent while quoting Drake songs. “Maybe in my mind I think I’m Japanese,” he said.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Maybe I missed it in the article, but who is he addressing when he talks like that? For example, a native English speaker using katakana English to a native Japanese speaker in order to be better understand is perfectly fine in my opinion. It makes you sound like an asshole, but it works. I think that's what the poster on the first page was talking about with her sister in Thailand. But perhaps that's not what's going on with this chef.

Apparently he can speak Japanese, so if he was speaking to Japanese people he could just say "oishii" or whatever. I don't see why this guy is going out of his way to say shit in a Japanese accent. It's so weird lol.

 

[matt360]

Apparently he can speak Japanese, so if he was speaking to Japanese people he could just say "oishii" or whatever. I don't see why this guy is going out of his way to say shit in a Japanese accent. It's so weird lol.

Good point. That would make more sense.

I guess I just imagined a scenario where maybe he was serving some Japanese customers, used the word "dericious" because he felt it wold communicate his intent better than saying "delicious," was overheard by some other customers who took offense, and here we are. But I admit that is quite a stretch.

 

[Trojita]

It's the "dericious" part that is odious. The Oishii part is just weeb as fuck.

 

[Ratrat]

Im watching a video of him talking and he says says saki one moment and sake the next.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

There is, in my opinion a difference between a real Japanese accent and the immediate stereotypes someone who doesnt speak the language run to.

The article only has his saying delicious with a Japanese accent. For all I know its like people who insist on pronouncing manga names correctly even when they are speaking in english.

Delicious may be english, but its used in Japan like a thousand other words. I just hope he said 'deliciousu'.

Edit:
Er, this is the exact opposite of saying 'ching chong' I knew someone would try that.

Nah this guy is just a dumbass lol.

 

[Ratrat]

Nah this guy is just a dumbass lol.

Also a racist and a weeb. lol

 

[Rentahamster]

It's the "dericious" part that is odious. The Oishii part is just weeb as fuck.

How is using words from a language he is speaking, "weeb as fuck"? The dude actually knows Japanese.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Also a racist and a weeb. lol

I don't think he's actually racist.

I just think he's stupid and corny.

 

[Ratrat]

I don't think he's actually racist.

I just think he's stupid and corny.

I'm getting ads for デリシャス steak after posting in this thread.
It may be dumb, it seems unlikely he's saying dericious though. I'm inclined to think the author just cant tell the difference

 

[.JayZii]

I'm getting ads for デリシャス steak after posting in this thread.
It may be dumb, it seems unlikely he's saying dericious though. I'm inclined to think the author just cant tell the difference

Tell the difference between what? The author wrote "dericious" because the average reader can't read katakana.

 

[Fancyarcher]

I admit I laughed at the accent, but it's in really really poor taste regardless.

 

[Ratrat]

Tell the difference between what? The author wrote "dericious" because the average reader can't read katakana.

Then its not a good example. Because imo there is a big difference. As thats what will change whether a Japanese person or speaker would find it questionable or not.
Is the issue the mere use of an accent whether correct or not? Regardless of it entering the lexicon?

 

[WaterAstro]

Maybe he doesn't know how much the rest of his customers know about Japanese culture (He's an expert).

 

[Hades Hotgun]

I'm Japanese yo.



No.

It's written "Ri" in English.

It's pronounced "Li".

As in "らりるれろ"

is spelled "Ra Ri Ru Re Ro" in English, but pronounce "La Li Lu Le Lo" when spoken.

I mean, sure, you're a native speaker and all, but I really like video games so I feel qualified to question your competence.

Anyway, your point here actually reminded me about the Eric Singer, dialect coach videos that WIRED put out, where he breaks down accents and specifically notes how the English R sound is particularly unusual and difficult for a lot of non-native speakers who have no real equivalent.

 

[Ratrat]

As a native speaker that R and L debate pages back is bizzarre.

 

[Korey]

Um Ryu is pronounced ree-you, not lee-you

 

[.JayZii]

Then its not a good example. Because imo there is a big difference. As thats what will change whether a Japanese person or speaker would find it questionable or not.
Is the issue the mere use of an accent whether correct or not? Regardless of it entering the lexicon?

It's weird to go from speaking Japanese, to speaking English with an American accent, to speaking what people are going to hear as pidgin English. It's just a weird thing to do and are meant as "little fun jokes" by his own account. It's not like デリシャス is the most common way Japanese people say "delicious" anyway. He's imitating Japanese people who can't speak English well as a joke, let's call it what it is. You can be fine with that, but I think it's pretty fucking lame.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Um Ryu is pronounced ree-you, not lee-you

Nah it's more like a liyuu. But the "i" in the "li" is really subtle, and it all flows together.

So maybe more of a l'yuu?

Lol

 

[Ratrat]

It's weird to go from speaking Japanese, to speaking English with an American accent, to speaking what people are going to hear as pidgin English. It's just a weird thing to do and are meant as "little fun jokes" by his own account. It's not like デリシャス is the most common way Japanese people say "delicious" anyway. He's imitating Japanese people who can't speak English well as a joke, let's call it what it is. You can be fine with that, but I think it's pretty fucking lame.

He alternates between English and Native pronounciation of words like 'sake' in the same sentence. I dont know. If he was saying a complete sentence in broken English vs saying デリシャス even as a joke along with oishii...well to me its different. I really have to see him in action to tell.

Um Ryu is pronounced ree-you, not lee-you

Not even with an American accent is it pronounced like that.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Anyway, your point here actually reminded me about the Eric Singer, dialect coach videos that WIRED put out, where he breaks down accents and specifically notes how the English R sound is particularly unusual and difficult for a lot of non-native speakers who have no real equivalent.

Yeah, in Japanese "liver" turns into something like "rebā", which is pronounced almost like "lebā".

They also have a hard time with "th".

 

[ForsakenLotus]

By no means am I saying it's okay that he does this, but genuine question: what is the line when it comes to doing impersonations like this? If he were to do an English accent while serving fish and chips, is that okay? Is it because it seems like it's overly stereotypically Asian? Is it because it's a culture that has suffered at the hands of Americans?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

By no means am I saying it's okay that he does this, but genuine question: what is the line when it comes to doing impersonations like this? If he were to do an English accent while serving fish and chips, is that okay? Is it because it seems like it's overly stereotypically Asian? Is it because it's a culture that has suffered at the hands of Americans?

Just don't do it. He's a chief, he doesn't need to do this shit.

Yes, how odd of me to make it about Japanese people...right.
Its not like this is a guy doing an accent he learned by studying in Japan and copying the people.

Andrew House speaks fantastic Japanese after years of working at Sony and living in Japanese.

Does he have a goddamn Japanese accent when he speaks English?!

 

[Rentahamster]

Japanese people can pronounce "L"s.....

"R"s are what Japanese people have a hard time pronouncing.

De-Li-Sha-Su would be how most Japanese would pronounce "delicious".

Yes.

I think you have it backwards

Not really.

It's different, but it's a hell of a lot closer to an American R than an American L.

(Especially when you get into rolling R's)

Not really.

Sure.

I'm only at N2 level in Japanese so I'll defer to you, but I felt confident saying the Japanese r sound is between the English l and r. Just so people don't get the totally wrong idea, and I have to use this Japanese degree somehow.

Generally speaking, you can say it's "between", but it's more complicated than that.

It's not closer to an "L" than an "R".

Not really.

I'm not going to ask a Japanese person what something sounds like to an American ear. No matter how many videos he posts, I'm still hearing an R.

That's because you're semantically conditioned to categorize it as a rolling r, even though "r", in the wide world of phonetics, encompasses a variety of sounds.


OK folks, since it's hard for some of you to understand, let me explain a little here, since it's apparently very hard to just take the native bilingual guy's word for it :/


The English "l" is a liquid consonant that is a (sometimes dental) alveolar lateral approximant.

The English "r" is a liquid consonant that is a post alveolar retroflex approximant.

The Japanese "r" is a liquid consonant that is an alveolar tap.

Japanese "r" and English "l" generate the sound from a similar alveolar tongue position and are both palatalized.

If you take a Japanese word syllable like "ra" (&#12425, and then say multiple times, each time more slowly, you will eventually end up saying something that sounds like an English "la" because when you hold the sound long enough, it changes to an approximant.

There is no easy way to get to English 'r' from Japanese or vice versa because there is nothing that comes close to English "r" in the Japanese language (aside for some rare instances of dialects and slang).


Source: phonetics

 

[.JayZii]

Generally speaking, you can say it's "between", but it's more complicated than that.

To be fair, I did say this:

Saying it's an "L" or an "R" sound isn't really true. It's somewhere in between the two English sounds, like a lightly rolled "r" with almost a little bit of a "d" sound in there too. Which is why Japanese people understandably have difficulty differentiating English L's and R's.

before the post you quoted. Which is basically what you said but without the technical phonetics lingo.

I trust the native speaker, it's just more complicated than the "It's just an 'L' sound" argument that TickleMeElbow was originally making. Which he/she agreed with me on:

Yes, but it's waaaaaay closer to an "L".

"Ramune" sounds much closer to "Lamune" when spoken in Japanese. I'm fluent in both languages. I'm saying it out loud right now.

 

[wandering]

Um Ryu is pronounced ree-you, not lee-you

There can be variations in romanization, e.g. Lyoto Machida

 

[Rentahamster]

To be fair, I did say this:

before the post you quoted. Which is basically what you said but without the technical phonetics lingo.

I trust the native speaker, it's just more complicated than the "It's just an 'L' sound" argument that TickleMeElbow was originally making. Which he/she agreed with me on:

The underlying point is that Japanese "r" is closer to English "l" than English "r" in some important features, and that TickleMeElbow's statement wasn't "backwards".

 

[Rmagnus]

The new black face?

 

[Ratrat]

Just don't do it. He's a chief, he doesn't need to do this shit.



Andrew House speaks fantastic Japanese after years of working at Sony and living in Japanese.

Does he have a goddamn Japanese accent when he speaks English?!

If its a word used in Japan. Sure.
He can say 'I hate that Famicon' or whatever. Its better than the bastardization you hear English speakers often use of character names. Bilingual people mix words and accents all the time. Settle down.

Edit: this is based on the assumption he is doing an authentic accent 'derishasu' or 'Sankyuu' and not something else.

 

[.JayZii]

The underlying point is that Japanese "r" is closer to English "l" than English "r" in some important features, and that TickleMeElbow's statement wasn't "backwards".

I was just addressing my part that you quoted. I never called their statement backwards.

 

[Rentahamster]

I was just addressing my part that you quoted. I never called their statement backwards.

You didn't, and my intention isn't to imply that you did. The inclusion of my response to your post is supposed to serve as an introduction to what the details are that accompany the description of "in between".

 

[RM8]

Japanese R is actually closer to the D-ish sound in "beTTer" in some American accents. Jeez I'm glad I'm a Spanish speaker, Japanese and Spanish R pronunciations are identical. Japanese R is pretty challenging for native English speakers indeed.

 

[spekkeh]

I'm not sure why so many people are arguing with you. My Japanese teacher in America and tutor in Osaka both brought something like this up.
Weird that people are arguing with a native speaker about their own language.

I'm Business lvl fluent in Korean but I'm not gonna argue with a native Korean speaker about what sound something makes in their language. Pretty sure the native speaker would know lol

I would imagine arguing with a native Japanese speaker about the pronunciation of R and L is similar to arguing with a Spanish person about the pronunciation of the B and V. It's not that Japanese people are incapable of pronouncing the L, it's just that when I lived there I definitely heard a lot more L's become R's than the other way around.

That said.

Chef in the OP is obviously a dick. Even if he doesn't mean anything with it.

 

[Spladam]

I don't see this matching the outrage response. So what? Do only racist sympathizers go eat at his place?

visibility and authority to make a legitimate claim as an ambassador for Japanese culture and cuisine

What?

 

[darkinstinct]

I would like to understand something: If an American person impersonates a Japanese person by using his accent it is apparantly racist. What if an American person impersonates a German by using his accent? Or a French? I don't get how the same thing is totally accepted and funny when you do it about people of your own race but becomes racist in all other cases. To me, that's just BS. As a person that doesn't care about race at all I take the liberty of making fun of every accent that exists. And that includes German accents (like Bavarian, Eastern Germany). And isn't that how it should be? To differentiate the same thing just because of race simply means that you divide people by race, which is racist in itself.

 

[.JayZii]

You didn't, and my intention isn't to imply that you did. The inclusion of my response to your post is supposed to serve as an introduction to what the details are that accompany the description of "in between".

I see. I misunderstood my inclusion in there. Sorry for the confusion.

I would like to understand something: If an American person impersonates a Japanese person by using his accent it is apparantly racist. What if an American person impersonates a German by using his accent? Or a French? I don't get how the same thing is totally accepted and funny when you do it about people of your own race but becomes racist in all other cases. To me, that's just BS. As a person that doesn't care about race at all I take the liberty of making fun of every accent that exists. And that includes German accents (like Bavarian, Eastern Germany). And isn't that how it should be? To differentiate the same thing just because of race simply means that you divide people by race, which is racist in itself.

I wouldn't get caught up in the race issue alone. It's ethnocentric and shitty, and it can become part of a stereotype to mock minorities when it's a normalized part of the culture.

There was a French person earlier in the thread talking about their issues with the mocking French accent people do.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Same reason an English person speaking Japanese sounds funny to a Japanese person.

Because they are foreign and have to put forth effort to speak a language that we speak without even having to think about it, and they still can't get it right. Dumb foreigners; they'll never be truly one of us. Let's make fun of them.

To be clear, I'm not saying that's what you're thinking, but that's how it comes across to me in terms of what the guy in the article is doing.

Um Ryu is pronounced ree-you, not lee-you

Rye-yoo.

 

[Rentahamster]

I see. I misunderstood my inclusion in there. Sorry for the confusion.

Nah, it's my bad, I could have worded that better.

 

[ViviOggi]

Yes.


Not really.

Not really.

Generally speaking, you can say it's "between", but it's more complicated than that.

Not really.

That's because you're semantically conditioned to categorize it as a rolling r, even though "r", in the wide world of phonetics, encompasses a variety of sounds.


OK folks, since it's hard for some of you to understand, let me explain a little here, since it's apparently very hard to just take the native bilingual guy's word for it :/


The English "l" is a liquid consonant that is a (sometimes dental) alveolar lateral approximant.

The English "r" is a liquid consonant that is a post alveolar retroflex approximant.

The Japanese "r" is a liquid consonant that is an alveolar tap.

Japanese "r" and English "l" generate the sound from a similar alveolar tongue position and are both palatalized.

If you take a Japanese word syllable like "ra" (&#12425, and then say multiple times, each time more slowly, you will eventually end up saying something that sounds like an English "la" because when you hold the sound long enough, it changes to an approximant.

There is no easy way to get to English 'r' from Japanese or vice versa because there is nothing that comes close to English "r" in the Japanese language (aside for some rare instances of dialects and slang).


Source: phonetics

THANK YOU

 

[Zero315]

I don't think he's actually racist.

I just think he's stupid and corny.

He may not be racist, but what he's doing definitely falls under casual racism.

 

[spekkeh]

I would like to understand something: If an American person impersonates a Japanese person by using his accent it is apparantly racist. What if an American person impersonates a German by using his accent? Or a French? I don't get how the same thing is totally accepted and funny when you do it about people of your own race but becomes racist in all other cases. To me, that's just BS. As a person that doesn't care about race at all I take the liberty of making fun of every accent that exists. And that includes German accents (like Bavarian, Eastern Germany). And isn't that how it should be? To differentiate the same thing just because of race simply means that you divide people by race, which is racist in itself.

But a German impersonating a Jew?

It's funny but insensitive. I don't think it's racism, but people have different thresholds for invoking that word. More importantly though it's something you would do amongst friends, not in a business setting.

(Though admittedly the nuance is subtle because I don't have a problem with actors playing a character, and you could say the chef is just playing a role here)

 

[ViviOggi]

I would like to understand something: If an American person impersonates a Japanese person by using his accent it is apparantly racist. What if an American person impersonates a German by using his accent? Or a French? I don't get how the same thing is totally accepted and funny when you do it about people of your own race but becomes racist in all other cases. To me, that's just BS. As a person that doesn't care about race at all I take the liberty of making fun of every accent that exists. And that includes German accents (like Bavarian, Eastern Germany). And isn't that how it should be? To differentiate the same thing just because of race simply means that you divide people by race, which is racist in itself.

Why make fun of others for their accent in the first place?

 

[Ratrat]

This thread is gold. I see one other person in here besides me who is Japanese who feels the chef's a dumbass at best. And everyone tries to school him on his 'faulty' Japanese.

 

[spekkeh]

Why make fun of others for their accent in the first place?

Why make fun indeed

 

[Hypron]

Why make fun of others for their accent in the first place?

Yeah, it's an assholish thing to do, especially since most people can't imitate foreign accents properly. It just comes off as really ignorant.

I don't know if you guys have ever had someone """imitate""" your accent in front of you while sounding nothing like it. It doesn't feel nice.

 

[darkinstinct]

Why make fun of others for their accent in the first place?

I don't know, I can laugh about myself, I feel I can laugh about others as well. I have no problem with being the victim of a joke either.

 

[Replicant]

It's one thing to use random Japanese word in your sentence like you're a proud weaboo.

It's quite another when you start imitating accent. It's insulting.

 

[13ruce]

Some dude does a dumb japanese accent sometimes.

This is the whole article.

Am I supposed to be outraged?

Sure, the guy is a dick.

Did this really need to be an article?

Any news is news these days. Even dumb stuff.

 

[Ratrat]

It's one thing to use random Japanese word in your sentence like you're a proud weaboo.

It's quite another when you start imitating accent. It's insulting.

Wait, a guy who apprenticed years in Japan and runs a traditional Japanese restaraunt is a weab for using Japanese words? Oh, no he said 'omakase', weeeab!
People order hamachi and sake. Not young yellowtail tuna and rice wine.