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Popular New York sushi chef entertains customers with fake Japanese accent

P

Poor GRIMES

Banned
Trojita said:
And you are making it out to be some insidious problem with gaf when it is a post here or there with replies that shit on them.
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sister please, every time theres a thread about China you can already see the droves of posters who type racist shit talking about how Chinese people are this and that.

this isnt isolated at all and its not just about Asian people that a certain subset of GAF is uneducated about
 
K

KillLaCam

Banned
Is using an English accent from a non-English speaking country really perpetuating stereotypes though?
But at the same time most people are gonna have an accent in their second language. It's pretty hard to get rid of an accent in that way.


It's still pretty lame though.
 
J

.JayZii

Banned
TickleMeElbow said:
I'm Japanese yo.



No.

It's written "Ri" in English.

It's pronounced "Li".

As in "らりるれろ"

is spelled "Ra Ri Ru Re Ro" in English, but pronounce "La Li Lu Le Lo" when spoken.
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Saying it's an "L" or an "R" sound isn't really true. It's somewhere in between the two English sounds, like a lightly rolled "r" with almost a little bit of a "d" sound in there too. Which is why Japanese people understandably have difficulty differentiating English L's and R's.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Poor GRIMES said:
sister please, every time theres a thread about China you can already see the droves of posters who type racist shit talking about how Chinese people are this and that.

this isnt isolated at all and its not just about Asian people that a certain subset of GAF is uneducated about
Click to expand...

Most of the negative things I see in GAF about China relate to extreme bystander effect, copying/piracy , tourism related shenanigans, or excessive spitting.

Those things are basically on the level with people calling out America for shit like being fat.

backslashbunny said:
You seem really personally defensive about my rating of this guy's sushi.

BTW, I really appreciate Jiro for at least introducing people to sushi past the cream cheese rolls that used to be prevalent. Like other things that became wildly pop, he's not the best, overhyped due to something that's not quality based, but at least a good entrance point. I mean, it's not like he has Michelin stars for NO reason. I realize that people will put down liking Jiro for the same reason, which I'd agree to use if that person is like JIRO IS THE ENDALL (as in, that's all they can name) but.. he's not.

& no, I wouldn't say I have a network. Just acquaintances in the restaurant biz, one specifically in NYC's higher end kitchens, and a lot of very enthusiast friends who actually eat quite a bit in these circles.

Most of the time though, you'd have to look at who the guy has worked for/trained under. That's how many of the well known places even start - you'll hear about "x" chef, who was head chef under "y" at "z," and go from there. Not that, of course, you can't have quality cooks who comes out of nowhere. That, though, it more akin to luck in a sense (of being discovered) and also diligence of their craft (but again I'd argue you're more likely to see that if that person actually works in one of those previously notable kitchens.)
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Oh god, cream cheese based sushi is the worst. If someone only learned more about sushi outside of cream cheese for fucks sake, because of Jiro, that's kind of sad.

I just don't see the point in judging someone's sushi without trying it.
 
T

TickleMeElbow

Member
.JayZii said:
Saying it's an "L" or an "R" sound isn't really true. It's somewhere in between like a lightly rolled "r" with almost a little bit of a "d" sound in there too. Which is why Japanese people understandably have difficulty differentiating English L's and R's.
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Yes, but it's waaaaaay closer to an "L".

"Ramune" sounds much closer to "Lamune" when spoken in Japanese. I'm fluent in both languages. I'm saying it out loud right now.
 
K

Khalifa Jayy

Banned
Eyeh4wk said:
PBF071-Weeaboo.gif
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Why would you driveby post this when it's not relevant at all... ?
 
J

.JayZii

Banned
TickleMeElbow said:
Yes, but it's waaaaaay closer to an "L".

"Ramune" sounds much closer to "Lamune" when spoken in Japanese. I'm fluent in both languages. I'm saying it out loud right now.
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Sure.

I'm only at N2 level in Japanese so I'll defer to you, but I felt confident saying the Japanese r sound is between the English l and r. Just so people don't get the totally wrong idea, and I have to use this Japanese degree somehow.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I don't know why you guys are concentrating on the R->L

The L->R is the one Native English speakers hear a R sound.
 
E

Erheller

Member
KillLaCam said:
]Is using an English accent from a non-English speaking country really perpetuating stereotypes though[/b]?
But at the same time most people are gonna have an accent in they're second language. Especially if it's from somewhere where the persons 1sr language has completely different sounds like the "R/L" sound that I'll never be able to make.


It's still pretty lame though.
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In elementary school, people made fun of me by repeating my words back to me with a faux Asian accent.

Never mind that I spoke and wrote better English than them.

This is a real issue.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
backslashbunny said:
You seem really personally defensive about my rating of this guy's sushi.

BTW, I really appreciate Jiro for at least introducing people to sushi past the cream cheese rolls that used to be prevalent. Like other things that became wildly pop, he's not the best, overhyped due to something that's not quality based, but at least a good entrance point. I mean, it's not like he has Michelin stars for NO reason. I realize that people will put down liking Jiro for the same reason, which I'd agree to use if that person is like JIRO IS THE ENDALL (as in, that's all they can name) but.. he's not. But, in all honesty, a chef that comes from Japan who opens his own sushi bar... if this guy trained under Jiro for twenty five years, I'd be very confident in stating his sushi will be excellent, without even having tasted it. If he trained with someone like Saito, I'd be even more impressed.

& no, I wouldn't say I have a network. Just acquaintances in the restaurant biz, one specifically in NYC's higher end kitchens, and a lot of very enthusiast friends who actually eat quite a bit in these circles.

Most of the time though, you'd have to look at who the guy has worked for/trained under. That's how many of the well known places even start - you'll hear about "x" chef, who was head chef under "y" at "z," and go from there. Not that, of course, you can't have quality cooks who comes out of nowhere. That, though, it more akin to luck in a sense (of being discovered) and also diligence of their craft (but again I'd argue you're more likely to see that if that person actually works in one of those previously notable kitchens.) Though, again, even if you haven't apprenticed under somewhere famous you'll usually generate quite a bit of consistent buzz if you're good, and not for gimmicky reasons.
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Wow, I think you're the first person that I met that has tried Jiro's sushi and didn't consider it the best.

I'm no sushi expert (In fact I hate sushi, and Jiro's was one that I could actually eat) but my grandparents who have pretty much been having sushi since they were young considered it the pinnacle.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
backslashbunny said:
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this part.

Personally I'm not a fan of being a gatekeeper of anything. For example, I know a lot of kinky folk hated on 50 Shades, and people who came because of 50 Shades, but I really don't look down on them just because they came from 50 Shades. As long as they were sincere in their interest, why look down on them? Everyone has to start from somewhere.

If you do so in good faith, then more power to you and I'm happy to bring you into the fold. The only point of excluding people is for an ego trip, if you ask me. At least, you see it really often, even in videogames and other geekdoms. The moment something becomes popular, a lot of self proclaimed "true" fans get really snarky, and I can only imagine they're just really insecure and need to make themselves feel superior to the new people who didn't arrive there "organically" or whatever.
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Jiro's worldwide fame, for a large number of people on the globe to actually know who he is, is a recent thing. I just find it odd if people associated cream cheese sushi to be the standard and then saw Jiro Dream's of Sushi and was like "Wow there is tuna, salmon, red snapper mackerel, and urchin! Like, where the fuck have you been looking the whole time you've been at a sushi restaurant?
 
T

TickleMeElbow

Member
Trojita said:
Again, you are concentrating on the R-> L

That's not the one usually associated with what is called "Engrish".
Click to expand...

When Japanese people say "English" they say "in-gu-li-shu".

They don't say "IngRish"

Japanese people actually have a hard time pronouncing Rs. Ask a Japanese person to pronounce "Rice" in English. They'll have a hard time. Ask them to pronounce "lice". Much easier time.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
TickleMeElbow said:
When Japanese people say "English" they say "in-gu-li-shu".

They don't say "IngRish"

Japanese people actually have a hard time pronouncing Rs. Ask a Japanese person to pronounce "Rice" in English. They'll have a hard time. Ask them to pronounce "lice". Much easier time.
Click to expand...

The "engrish" thing is so ironic, considering which Asiatic countries actually have common "r" sounds.
 
M

Marmaladefire

Member
This thread is exactly what I expected it to be, holy shit.

This is shitty. It's really not cool, and also, there are lots of actual Japanese chefs in NYC to get Sushi from if you feel like it's only authentic if the white guy serving it to you talks like that one sakuracon ad.

There's an absolute false equivalency between this and faking/mocking an accent from a European country (particularly a western or central European one) and I would wager everyone here knows that.

Technosteve said:
Man let him be a weeabo.
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Delusional weebs that fetisihze and entire country and culture need to stop too. But this is more of a garden variety "ironic" racism thing, not really the specialized sex based racism of weeaboos.
 
J

.JayZii

Banned
TickleMeElbow said:
When Japanese people say "English" they say "in-gu-li-shu".

They don't say "IngRish"

Japanese people actually have a hard time pronouncing Rs. Ask a Japanese person to pronounce "Rice" in English. They'll have a hard time. Ask them to pronounce "lice". Much easier time.
Click to expand...
Ask them to say "multiplication table" and they'll look like they'd rather rip out a toenail.

Part of the pronunciation thing isn that it isn't just L and R, it's the syllabic way Japanese people pronounce things.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
backslashbunny said:
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this part.

Personally I'm not a fan of being a gatekeeper of anything. For example, I know a lot of kinky folk hated on 50 Shades, and people who came because of 50 Shades, but I really don't look down on them just because they came from 50 Shades. As long as they were sincere in their interest, why look down on them? Everyone has to start from somewhere.
Click to expand...

This is getting off topic but the kink community hated 50 Shades because it gave off a totally incorrect and warped view of what a BDSM relationship was and attracted a lot of people the kink community wanted nothing to do with.
 
K

KillLaCam

Banned
Erheller said:
In elementary school, people made fun of me by repeating my words back to me with a faux Asian accent.

Never mind that I spoke and wrote better English than them.

This is a real issue.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah it's offensive. I'd never argue against that. Especially if you're purposely doing it to attack someone like that.

It's a super thin line though. If I'm speaking in a somewhat legit Russian accent I wouldn't be preputuarting stereotypes because many Russian people actually sound similar to it when speaking English. It could be SUPER offensive though depending on the situation and how I'm using it though.

The Sushi Chef was extremely wrong for doing that. Especially when his customers probably expect him to know more about Japan than the average American.
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
backslashbunny said:
Really?

Have they tried Saito, or any number of other places in Tokyo that are consistently ranked higher?

I've never been to Jiro's proper. I went to his son's place in Rop Hills. It was really good. Still Michelin rated, so obviously excellent. It's possible his father's is vastly better than his (though I'm not sure if I could tell the difference between a 3 star and 2 star place personally!). That being said, no, apparently Jiro is not the best in Japan. On a personal scale, your grandparents may very well consider Jiro to be superior to all other places. Aggregate, though, that's not the case. It shouldn't stop them from enjoying their food.
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No idea if they've been to Saito but they compared it to Yoshitake that's also in Ginza and they said that while Jiro's atmosphere is not as friendly as Yoshitake (never been to the latter but I agree lol, felt like I was taking an exam), the food was a bit better.
 
T

TheBryanJZX90

Member
TickleMeElbow said:
Japanese people actually have a hard time pronouncing Rs. Ask a Japanese person to pronounce "Rice" in English. They'll have a hard time. Ask them to pronounce "lice". Much easier time.
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If you ask a Japanese person that they will just be like wtf why do you want me to pronounce the same word twice. I did that all the time when I was teaching English.
 
Porcile

Porcile

Member
Are you guys actually arguing with a native Japanese speaker about what Japanese people understand better? Please stop, its a bit embarrassing lmao.

Actually, when I speak English of course I use English pronunciation for all words, but when I speak Japanese I try to use Japanese pronunciation for loanwords, which is actually a little harder than it appears. The guys and girls who mix English, loan words,Japanese accents, and intonation all over the place are biggest fucks ever. Fuck off please.
 
M

Marmaladefire

Member
backslashbunny said:
No, I think some people here are really actually that ignorant, which oddly enough I think is fine because it comes from ignorance.

It's the people being willfully disingenuous that really are being quite pathetic. I mean, how else do you describe trying to defend racism? lol
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That's better then just being a straight "Well actually~" style troll, because they can be taught! But it still makes me kinda sad.

My own experience in leaning has also been to use the Japanese pronunciation for loanwords when speaking in Japanese, which personally I find good because then you don't end up falling back into English pronunciation for the rest of the sentence, but like, what the hell do I know? Please defer to the native speakers here..
 
T

TickleMeElbow

Member
Trojita said:
This guy goes over it pretty well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TkFentcjx8
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Maybe shit like "actually" would be hard, but like he said if you broke it down into syllables it would be easier, even if you just broke it down to ak-chu-ah-li, and tell them to extend the last syllable.

It would be harder to get them to say "are", because there are no sounds that sound like the R in "are". You can't break it down to syllables that exist in Japanese.
 
K

KillLaCam

Banned
TickleMeElbow said:
No it isn't holy shit.

I am a native speaker of both languages.

Japanese people pronounce "rice" as "laisu". Like "lice" (the insect) with an "L" + a short "u" sound.
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I'm not sure why so many people are arguing with you. My Japanese teacher in America and tutor in Osaka both brought something like this up.
Weird that people are arguing with a native speaker about their own language.

I'm Business lvl fluent in Korean but I'm not gonna argue with a native Korean speaker about what sound something makes in their language. Pretty sure the native speaker would know lol
 
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