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Spider-Man: Singleplayer, 4-6x size of Sunset, Spider-Man is 23, has Peter gameplay
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Baroquemantic
Member
The Uncharted comparisons make no sense. Nate is surrounded by the spectacle. Spider-Man is actively a part of it.
More_Badass
Member
Yes, but all Drake has to worry about is the escape. Even the big convoy chase in 4, while visually unique with you being dragged, uses the same gameplay as the rest of the game (jumping, swinging, aiming, etc.)
Here, you'd have to simultaneously:
- Move and swing
- Maintain camera control (since you'll need to aim your webs)
- Be able to manually aim webs
- Maybe be able to adjust the strength of your webshooter so you have strong and wide enough strands to catch the crane
- Do that all while keeping up with a falling crane
In previous Spider-Man games, you couldn't actually do anything to the civilians IIRC like hit them or put them in harm's way. I think Ultimate Spider-Man was an exception since you could play as Venom, and Web of Shadows with the morality system (I think you could let civilians die and you'd receive black/symbiote points).
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Come to read the weirdest comparison ever
They designed themselves into having a heavily QTE based sequence.
After getting hit by the swinging think, swinging onto the crane could be done in gameplay.
Moving up the crane could be done in gameplay (at least 'hold up to have the animation play').
Webbing the crane to the buildings could be done with interactable parts of the crane you're running toward (i.e. run to this highlight section, the press the button prompt).
The final part of webbing the swinging thing to the building, and the end of the crane, could be done with a slow-motion aiming section.
Being chased by the transformer(?) through the building could have been done with a Uncharted-like jeep chase interactible sequence.
The rest would probably have to be a QTE, but at that point you would have been interacting with the game enough that it could just be a cutscene.
Of course I'm not saying it would have been easy to do, but those are elements of interaction that other games have handled without QTEs.
After getting hit by the swinging think, swinging onto the crane could be done in gameplay.
Moving up the crane could be done in gameplay (at least 'hold up to have the animation play').
Webbing the crane to the buildings could be done with interactable parts of the crane you're running toward (i.e. run to this highlight section, the press the button prompt).
The final part of webbing the swinging thing to the building, and the end of the crane, could be done with a slow-motion aiming section.
Being chased by the transformer(?) through the building could have been done with a Uncharted-like jeep chase interactible sequence.
The rest would probably have to be a QTE, but at that point you would have been interacting with the game enough that it could just be a cutscene.
Of course I'm not saying it would have been easy to do, but those are elements of interaction that other games have handled without QTEs.
They should really consider getting J.K. Simmons to voice JJJ in this game just to hear him yell at Peter and say all manner of hilarious things.
What if the Player miss the Swinging on the Crane? What happened after that, Restart the Sequence??
I am not familiar with Miles, but a two-protagonist structure with Parker as a big brother to an inexperienced second Spidey could be something cool and fresh. Have Parker as the main character, and do an Ellie/Ciri with Miles, giving the player control over him every now and then.
Anyways, I am glad we are getting an experienced Parker, so we won't have yet another origin story at hand.
MegaSackman
Member
It all comes down to what do you think is a set piece.
Cat & mouse in Uncharted 2 is a set piece for me, you have to deal with different enemies, avoid a tank and take it down. It's not just outrun the danger.
Same with the last one in Uncharted 4, the ship graveyard.
Cat & mouse in Uncharted 2 is a set piece for me, you have to deal with different enemies, avoid a tank and take it down. It's not just outrun the danger.
Same with the last one in Uncharted 4, the ship graveyard.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I'd love it if Daredevil makes an appearance.
WordsintheWater
Member
Every thread for this game is gonna be marred by QTE talk huh? We spoke about it at length in like a 30 page thread and it's the same people discussing the same things. Nothing's changed in this 8 min demo, we have no more talking points, why are we still going in circles? Some enjoy QTE some don't that's as complicated as this needs to be. Will see what the game is like when we next see it.
The tank in the village was definitely a setpiece.
More_Badass
Member
I tend to think of set-pieces as the individual moment, while stuff like the tank cat & mouse or the convoy are levels with clever concepts (and also have set-pieces in them). Like the cruise ship is a level where the set piece is the whole flooded escape/rotating ship section
The plane sequence in 3 is basically one big set piece IMO
They should have a mission where Spidey, Wolverine and DD team up to do something about the Punisher who has been going overboard even for the Punisher.
flaxknuckles
Member
And then Big Pun embarrasses the shit out of them and hits Wolverine with a rocket launcher. Sogood.gif
MegaSackman
Member
Well this clarifies a lot, I consider those levels as big dynamic set pieces but I'm not closed to it. Zodiac Bell tower and Jeep/Falling/Winch are what you would call a set piece but escaping from Scotland or the Auction aren't.
I think the main difference imo is that what we saw of Spider-Man doesn't look like the crazier thing Spidey would do, it's cool and it needs to be in the game but I bet he does bigger thing. I'm not saying the game won't be spectacular if it doesn't tho.
If you take it to Nathan Drake that would be a mid level set piece like a falling bridge but not because they are equal in spectacle but because they represent the same challenge for the protagonist.
I don't even remember why we are discussing this tho. Either way, I'm really looking forward to the game and what I've seen looks great.
How is it a silly excuse?
You're not describing any alternative, you're just saying "they should add gameplay and skill and make it work!"
Uncharted 2's train setpiece is great but the most you're doing is shooting and climbing. It's not even close to what Spider-Man is doing here.
MegaSackman
Member
I think people are being reductive with Uncharted and overestimating Spider-Man, I could say thet all you do in Spider-Man is swinging and web-shooting... both statements are wrong.
I don't mean to be reductive, but that's the furthest the setpiece goes. You're on a moving train, you're climbing in and out when you need to while killing enemies in-between. I'm not knocking that setpiece, it's an amazing scene.
But how is it anywhere close to Spider-Man saving a crane and a helicopter with his speed and acrobatics?
More_Badass
Member
As someone who had played and love all Uncharteds and to this day, still replays certain levels just for the set pieces, I don't think he's wrong. The set pieces in Uncharted pretty unanimously limit themselves to the same controls as regular gameplay, so you're running, leaping, climbing, and shooting in the same way as you would during regular gameplay. Furthermore, while the spectacle is often awesome, the actual actions you perform are rarely different from Drake's regular moment-to-moment controls.
But this isn't that. What was done in that Spiderman moment wasn't swinging and webshooting on the same level as regular gameplay, but much more complex and advanced similar to how God of War uses such moments to do things that are way beyond what is possible with the normal controls and gameplay
That's not really all that different from running and shooting enemy targets. It's kind of odd to give bullet points to moving and camera aiming. Those are things that any gamer intuitively does.
Moving and swinging is the same point as keeping up with a falling crane point.
Maintaining camera control is the same point as manually aiming webs. You don't need fine camera control for the running up the crane sequence since it's already perfectly framed.
And those two points are things that any 3rd person action game does. Run, navigate the environment, aim and shoot at enemies. The only wrinkle is adjusting the strength of the web shooters and that can be done by tapping or holding the button. Or simply ignore the strength of the shooters and it just shoots what it shoots. It's not any more complicated than a bigger set piece in an Uncharted game.
That sequence is definitely not on the level of QTE events of a God of War game where things are truly too complex to do manually.
More_Badass
Member
True, but you'd basically need to move and control your swing while also controlling your aim at the crane to perform the actions we saw onscreen. So it's not that it wouldn't be intutive. It's that you only have two analog sticks, so if you want fine control for something like aiming your webs, that means you're going to take control away from something else in that moment
For example, in God of War 3, during the Helios fight, the game limits your movement so you can manually control your arm and block Helios' light.
I'm so pumped for this game. It looked amazing, and Insomniac is one of my favorite developers.
I mentioned it in the trailer thread I think, but I'm thinking that Cloak and Dagger will make an appearance in the game in some fashion. Their relationship to the Darkforce and Lightforce are tied to Mr. Negative and his relation to the Darkforce and Lightforce, and both Miles and Cloak and Dagger have other multi-media projects coming next year, it would be a great idea to see them in the game. That, and I just really like Cloak and Dagger and want to see more of them in stuff.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what else Insomniac is going to show of the game before release. I also hope it's a Quarter 1 to Quarter 2 2018 game, but I feel that way about every game I'm excited about getting my hands on. Soon enough, it will be in my hands, and in my PS4 Pro, and all this speculation will be a memory!
I mentioned it in the trailer thread I think, but I'm thinking that Cloak and Dagger will make an appearance in the game in some fashion. Their relationship to the Darkforce and Lightforce are tied to Mr. Negative and his relation to the Darkforce and Lightforce, and both Miles and Cloak and Dagger have other multi-media projects coming next year, it would be a great idea to see them in the game. That, and I just really like Cloak and Dagger and want to see more of them in stuff.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what else Insomniac is going to show of the game before release. I also hope it's a Quarter 1 to Quarter 2 2018 game, but I feel that way about every game I'm excited about getting my hands on. Soon enough, it will be in my hands, and in my PS4 Pro, and all this speculation will be a memory!
gamerMan
Member
Maybe, it just me, but I don't want to believe that Spiderman is so cool for videogames that all the coolest setpieces have to be QTEs. I believe Insomoniac should design the coolest setpiece ever imagined in Spiderman game and use that to drive the development of the game by making it fully playable.
I complete agree. The train sequence actually drove the whole development of Uncharted 2. There was so much of planning and hard work to get that segment to be playable. They could have gone the route of QTEs but "Uncharted 2 was able to stand out from the crowd and wow players with things they have never seen before."
Watch this GDC video to set how much work it took to get the playable train sequence to work in Uncharted 2. Among Friends - An Uncharted 2: Among Thieves Post-Mortem Train Sequence
I complete agree. The train sequence actually drove the whole development of Uncharted 2. There was so much of planning and hard work to get that segment to be playable. They could have gone the route of QTEs but "Uncharted 2 was able to stand out from the crowd and wow players with things they have never seen before."
Watch this GDC video to set how much work it took to get the playable train sequence to work in Uncharted 2. Among Friends - An Uncharted 2: Among Thieves Post-Mortem Train Sequence
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
So I'm trying to insert Nathan Drake into that crane scene in my mind and since he won't be saving anybody but his own ass I just imagine us having him jump climb than roping outta there with R1 I mean I guess that's better for some ppl?
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
I think one thing that might've been missed and we talked about in some BCDs too is that mission was shortened for press conference /E3.
For instance, in the extended/BCD demo you save more Fisk guys from another part of the tower.
There will be even more of them to save in the final game, and you can save them in whatever order you want. So you can kind of approach that building / mission how you want to.
For instance, in the extended/BCD demo you save more Fisk guys from another part of the tower.
There will be even more of them to save in the final game, and you can save them in whatever order you want. So you can kind of approach that building / mission how you want to.
Ugh.
I worked on Spider-Man 2 QA for about 5 or 6 months back in the day. 8-12 hour work days, 5 to 6 days a week, for 6 months, listening to "My balloon!" continuously. I still have nightmares. Spider-Man 2 was a terrible game, who's saving grace was the swing engine. The rest of it was a mediocre as fuck. A few of the guys I work with at my current job worked on that game, and we've had some fun talks about it.
I still can't get over the fact that we're getting a Spider-Man game backed by a big publisher, with a super talented developer developing it. I've been waiting for this for literally decades. It's a wonderful feeling.
sounds great, i'm sure it's super tough deciding what to cut for an E3 stage demo like that
idk if you guys are answering questions about the control scheme or not, but is there a dedicated parkour button like AC or is vaulting over objects more or less automatic?
More_Badass
Member
No one is saying that set pieces in Uncharted aren't complex or aren't impressive technical endeavors. We're saying that what you do during them, what you do among the chaos and collapsing architecture, is limited to what you do during regular gameplay. You're running, you're leaping and climbing, you're sliding, you're swinging, you're fighting and shooting. Due to this clever limitation, you can play those sequences like any other moment without needing to drastically add to and change player controls.
While in here and God of War, often you'te doung stuff that can't be done with the regular controls, be it latching onto specific body parts and pulling in or dodging and moving in complex ways and so on.
In this case, simultaneously being able to controlling your swing, while also controlling your webshooter, while doing this all precisely alongside a moving object, is more advanced, more granular and complex than what the moment-to-moment controls allow you to do.
Thus, you have three options. Don't do something so complex/over-the-top/etc and limit the sequence to what the player's controls can do. In this case, you can have the player swing down and then loop around the crane to catch it. Works, sure, but it's not reflective of what Spiderman would actually do in such a situation as we've seen in numerous comics and cartoons. A single webstrand from a webswing doesn't compare to the thick multiple webbing nets he always sprays to catch crashing vehicles and collapsing architecture
You could make it a cutscene. But then you have that constant shift between gameplay and cinematic, and the pacing and thrill of being in that moment is lost
You can do prompts and contextual controls, which is what they do. Not just button prompts, but also manually aiming with the crashing tail, the first-person webshooting section, and limiting your movement while fighting on the helicopter. This way lets you seamlessly shift between types of gameplay while remaining in-game and modulating the kind of control the player has for different segments. If anything, this gives the devs more freedom to craft sequences because you aren't limited just to player controls but can limit or change the controls as needed for a segment to work,
You would then have to fight the super villian Quick-Time-Man, who was bitten by a radioactive QTE and from that moment on his whole life is just one long chain of QTEs. A living hell. Poor bastard.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
That's a given I expect everything at that conference to be at psx(big titles I mean)
WordsintheWater
Member
You're right I forgot about that. I'm assuming they put out a trailer and a firm release date...at least I hope
MegaSackman
Member
I'm a little confused here...
Let me see, what I understand in this discussion is: 1- Spider-Man set piece is too complex for having free control without frustrating the player with fail states. I'm kinda agree with this.
2- This is way beyond crazier than any thing that happened in Uncharted. Well, no, I disagree, of course Nate couldn't hold a crane and a helicopter, he doesn't have super human abilities and powers, but he's been in some insane shit.
3- The level of input from the player is more complex in Spider-Man's set piece. I don't think so, you have to do pretty much the same things, run, jump, swing, shoot, fight. But this also struggles with what we consider a set piece and we have different opinions on this.
I think the way the Spider-Man scene is designed it can only work that way, I think people believe that they could have designed it in a different way so they didn't have to rely so much ok button prompts.
Nate doesn't need to save anyone, is not his job, his character, no one says that's better than saving people, they're just different characters, it's another discussion.
That would be a good time to focus on something non story related. Show us some high speed free roam swinging and maybe a bit of a sidequest or some Pete gameplay.
Hopefully then they are able to talk more about the open world, like will this game feature a full day & night cycle and weather system or not.
Oh man yeah and Peter Parker face and new villain reveal would be so hype, people would go nuts.
Oh man yeah and Peter Parker face and new villain reveal would be so hype, people would go nuts.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Was posted like page 5 of the last 38 page thread. I can assure it stopped nothing lol. Really feel like I watched an entire different video and the one gaf watched was straight up telltale spiderman(as many have already called this one)
Agreed. There are so many parts where you could give the player some amount of control. Why not have them actively websling between falling platforms? Even when it it's still on rails, it makes a huge difference to the player.
gamerMan
Member
I see what you are saying, but why not design this Spiderman setpiece with this clever limitation. My problem with this setpiece is that it is entirely made of QTEs and doesn't make the player feel like they are Spiderman but instead makes them feel they are watching Spiderman.
More_Badass
Member
I don't think that's a common sentiment. Maybe on GAF, but for the majority, seeing the action on-screen, with prompts that reflect that actual controls (ie triggers for webbing, attack buttons for attacks in God of War, etc.) does make it feel like they are that character. By having the controls carry over, you are naturally pressing the same button that would perform that action but having a bigger cooler action happen, thus it feels like you're in control.
It's a psychological thing
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